Weekend Arguments

[Perlin_Worm]

Having vehicle engines stop running on horde night works for me. I can think up a dozen explanations in 80’s horror fashion.

[SnowDog1942]

Why don't you ask yourself the real question: why would a player want to skip the night? And the magic answer is: because maybe to him it's not worth it. Perhaps address that, before nerfing gas.

 

Then they can turn the hordes off. Id like to survive horde night for the challenge of trying not to die, without using pure avoidance and other cheese tactics.

[Beelzybub]

Where's everyone getting the idea that lead will protect an electrical device from a storm? Has everyone been watching too much Chernobyl or would the storm also be fatally radioactive?

 

I think what you're looking for is a "Faraday cage" which is far more difficult (but not impossible) to mount on a vehicle than it is to cover a generator.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage

 

You can make a perfectly good Faraday cage with lead.

 

ps. I'm not suggesting that they're put in the game.

[Beelzybub]

Sure, the motorbike has that wicked zombie maiming spiked plough in the front,

 

It'd be fun if the zombies would stick to the front of the bike when you hit them.

[AtomicUs5000]

I disagree. It does matter what you do. Cars that simply don't work 1 day per week feels like a cheap/lazy solution to patch a deep game flaw

 

Not a fan of that one either. It lacks creativity. If the game had a true story-line or something to explain it, and not just word of mouth passing through the forums, I might dig it.

 

Zombies that jump onto the car? That would actually be great! Zombies that do a lot more damage than normal to your car during horde nights, just because it is useful for the devs to make you not use it, is again a cheap/lazy solution.

 

I think this is one of the best ideas. However, the damage they do should be consistent with the rest of the game. What I would do is give some damage, but also slow down the vehicle. If you hit a few zombies on horde night in a row, you might slow down enough and not pick up speed again fast enough before you're surrounded. Once surrounded, the group damage bonus kicks in and you're done.

 

Why don't you ask yourself the real question: why would a player want to skip the night? And the magic answer is: because maybe to him it's not worth it. Perhaps address that, before nerfing gas.

 

Gas needs nerfing regardless. While it could impact horde night, there is still a valid way to get it in abundance. But anyway... it is a good question to ask. The question I ask myself regarding the BM is, can I afford it? It is quite expensive in time and resources starting mid-game. Horde night is fun. I love it... but when those days become months and if you spend all week preparing for the next BM instead of riding a bike for an hour, that question gets louder and louder in my head.

 

Also if you start this battle of not letting players find ways around fighting the horde, how can you stop the oh I will just nerdpole to the roof of this building and wait for the night to pass strategy?

I'm thinking the Demolisher will help with this. This should be a viable and valid strategy. I don't think they should try to stop this. The zombies should do enough damage to where if you tried this consistently with POIs within some radius of your base, you would eventually run out of safe POIs. However, the big problem with this are the new reloading quest POIs. If you have one near your base, you could recycle it for BM... which is not cool at all.

 

These POIs should be special camps/bases where on horde night, you get teleported out like at the trader.

 

Still, swimming all night is a bigger problem than nerdpoling to roofs. Like stamina, there should be an endurance effect that kicks in when you tread water. If you tread too long, you get tired and sink.

[Socrastein]

I say just give some hilarious debuffs for avoiding horde night.

 

Have the game track zombie deaths and player distance traveled throughout the blood moon. Did they travel several KM and were there little to no zombies killed? Hit them with a "Shameful Wuss" debuff: "You are literally sick to your stomach with shame for having ran from your problems" that makes the sharting/IBS sound periodically and gives a heavy stamina/strength debuff and you lose your appetite for a day (can’t eat).

 

For water treading, track the percentage of time spent floating in water for the blood moon. Spent more than half the night treading water? Hit them with a "Yellow-Belly Fish" debuff: "You are completely exhausted from putting so much effort into being a lazy wuss" that makes heavy breathing sounds and handicaps your speed heavily for a day and you choked on so much water you can’t stomach any drinks for the day.

 

Or on the other hand maybe go the positive reinforcement route and give a buff for fighting the horde. Player isn’t swimming or driving excessively and their horde is actually dying? Hit them with a "Got off your ass!" buff that gives 25% better XP, loot, and quest rewards through the next day. Or only on Horde Night is there a chance for loot bags to contain things like the “Manly Man Machete” or the “Big Balls Machine Gun” legendary Blood Moon weapons.

 

Blood Moon discussion aside, yeah gas definitely needs nerfed just so it has some relevance and feeling of reward rather than just being a given.

[PO_Man_3849]

I agree with the LOOTING of gas, if all you do is loot and pillage, gas should be less abundant. I saw on the recent steam the gas barrels are now loot containers which is awesome.

 

For those who are established and choose to MINE for gas they should be able to mine to their hearts desire.

 

I honestly don't think there should be a mechanic of the game to prevent someone from using a motorized vehicle on horde night.

 

From what most people who are in favor of this mechanic are suggesting, if you are maybe a little too far from your base and enroute back to your base as BM hits, your transportation will stop working, your base and all storage chests and workstations will be destroyed, and you will have to start over from scratch the next day.

 

MM has said many times he doesn't like mechanics or settings that will cause a rage quit situation.

 

Most of the suggestions imply "people should be PUNISHED because they don't play like I do " so let's reinvent the game to accommodate for my play style?

[ecv]

Make the horde for vehicle drivers zombie bears and spitting vultures, and make zombie bears able to topple over cars and vulture goo explode them, then make them eat their wheels after eating you.

[Guppycur]

Have cars get stuck and start to slip when running over a zed. Hit a stack of Zeds and you're practically done for.

 

Here, I'll code it for you.

 

If playername not guppycur and if hit zombie

Wheel friction -10 for ten seconds

End if

 

...you're welcome. I'll email you my 1099 and expect a check on the first.

 

Now no need to do weird things to cars on bms.

[Grue]

I say just give some hilarious debuffs for avoiding horde night.

 

Have the game track zombie deaths and player distance traveled throughout the blood moon. Did they travel several KM and were there little to no zombies killed? Hit them with a "Shameful Wuss" debuff: "You are literally sick to your stomach with shame for having ran from your problems" that makes the sharting/IBS sound periodically and gives a heavy stamina/strength debuff and you lose your appetite for a day (can’t eat).

 

For water treading, track the percentage of time spent floating in water for the blood moon. Spent more than half the night treading water? Hit them with a "Yellow-Belly Fish" debuff: "You are completely exhausted from putting so much effort into being a lazy wuss" that makes heavy breathing sounds and handicaps your speed heavily for a day and you choked on so much water you can’t stomach any drinks for the day.

 

Or on the other hand maybe go the positive reinforcement route and give a buff for fighting the horde. Player isn’t swimming or driving excessively and their horde is actually dying? Hit them with a "Got off your ass!" buff that gives 25% better XP, loot, and quest rewards through the next day. Or only on Horde Night is there a chance for loot bags to contain things like the “Manly Man Machete” or the “Big Balls Machine Gun” legendary Blood Moon weapons.

 

Blood Moon discussion aside, yeah gas definitely needs nerfed just so it has some relevance and feeling of reward rather than just being a given.

 

 

Why bother?

 

Who cares if someone runs, swims, digs or otherwise avoids horde night?

 

Let's stop trying to micromanage other people's play style and let them do WTF ever they want to do with their game.

 

Let them play however they want.

[AtomicUs5000]

Why bother?

Who cares if someone runs, swims, digs or otherwise avoids horde night?

Let's stop trying to micromanage other people's play style and let them do WTF ever they want to do with their game.

Let them play however they want.

 

People like me are not caring about what other people do.

What we want is for us to have challenges to face if we try to do such things, because that's how we want to play our game.

There are 1,726 different settings to make your game easier. There are zero settings to give us our game.

[TSBX]

I would just like to point out that the BM acronym for Blood Moon makes for some hilarious out of context quotes.

[meganoth]

When playing with friends in a party it kinda sucks that the person with the highest loot bonus ends up looting everything because you want the best chance to get the good loots. Is there any chance the "find better loot" bonus (not the faster loot time) from Lucky Looter could be shared among near by party members? I dont think it'd be that much different and would allow others to loot without guilt.

 

If you want to stay friends, stop this immediately. Make a rule that everyone gets to open one box in the end room of a POI you loot together. And loot, no matter how good your LL skill is. The fun of the group is more important and the LL bonus not that big.

[Sigil_Thane]

I've been watching this discussion about using vs gimping vehicles to escape horde night, and it got me thinking that some things about riding/driving vehicles are a bit funny and unintuitive the way they are now.

 

For instance, motorcycling is way more dangerous compared to driving a car in real life. Basically hitting anything on a motorcycle tends to be fatal, and just one slip on a wet road can be your last. But in 7d2d you can ram a brick wall at full speed and you won't even fall off your hog!

 

Sure, the motorbike has that wicked zombie maiming spiked plough in the front, but still I think there should be some chance to fall over and get hurt real bad whenever you ram a zombie (maybe diminished by some riding skill, idk). That shoud bring some healthy sense of excitement into dodging zombies coming at you along the road (and it shoud go without saying that riding off-road is extremely perilous since any collision to a stationary object could be insta-gib or at least broken legs + arms + ribcage + skull fracture). Wasn't there a time when getting hit by a zombie would knock you off the minibike? I think I remember reading something like that.

 

Falling off a bike should not be that lethal because the speeds are slower, but then again it's easier for faster zombies to catch you and drop you off your ride with a well placed swing. Same mechanics, different challenge.

 

For cars it makes sense to have better protection from the angry undead mob, but I suppose running into a sufficient amount of midless zombies could at least severely damage the vehicle, and temporarily slow it down a bit.

 

Now if there was a truly durable getaway vehicle like a van or truck, that could only be found in a specific POI, and only during horde night... Anyone remember that one mission in L4D, where the final objective was to fight your way to that armored truck in the hall and drive it out the depot? Man, that excrement was tight! (pardon my "french")

 

... or, like I said earlier:

What about just adding a low chance to get a flat tire, which increases at night... Have to hop off and repair kit to continue.

[TSBX]

Sounds great for the console version.

[meganoth]

From what most people who are in favor of this mechanic are suggesting, if you are maybe a little too far from your base and enroute back to your base as BM hits, your transportation will stop working, your base and all storage chests and workstations will be destroyed, and you will have to start over from scratch the next day.

 

Why would they attack your storage chests when all they care about is your brain ?

 

And how can they attack your storage chests, those are not even "loaded" into the game when you are away from your base.

[Sigil_Thane]

...

 

Still, swimming all night is a bigger problem than nerdpoling to roofs. Like stamina, there should be an endurance effect that kicks in when you tread water. If you tread too long, you get tired and sink.

 

Add Alligators? ...Zombie Piranha?

 

[Grue]

People like me are not caring about what other people do.

What we want is for us to have challenges to face if we try to do such things, because that's how we want to play our game.

There are 1,726 different settings to make your game easier. There are zero settings to give us our game.

 

If you feel like it is cheesy, don't do it.

 

I have known that you could ride all night or tread water for several alphas, but simply choose to fight my horde nights.

 

You should not need some outside restraint to keep you from "cheating" the blood moon if you do not find it to be fun. No need to waste dev time engineering new penalties.

[AtomicUs5000]

If you feel like it is cheesy, don't do it.

I have known that you could ride all night or tread water for several alphas, but simply choose to fight my horde nights.

You should not need some outside restraint to keep you from "cheating" the blood moon if you do not find it to be fun. No need to waste dev time engineering new penalties.

 

Why is stopping someone from playing the game the way they want to a good argument on the one side but not the other?

You are suggesting I pretend that horde night doesn't have major flaws. I don't find that to be the definition of a challenge, let alone that of an actual game. You might think by telling me or others to just do so is a reasonable response, but understand that you only say this from the perspective of someone who doesn't care.

I've played pretend for a long time too. It's lost its charm and alpha stage is nearing the end. It is my opinion, and apparently also that of the team, that the Blood Moon horde feature is not fully realized yet due to these issues.

 

Regarding dev time, I have previously expressed my thoughts on that...

I don't see improving the BM as a waste of developer resources. I've worked on large projects with millions of lines of code for several years. What would be a waste is when you work on some major feature for years and never complete it. Whether it was time constraints, the budget, or beyond the capabilities of yourself or your team, even settling for something lesser than what you were aiming for over years of time with thousands or person-hours invested would be a waste. If one person working on it for another 500 hours brought that vision to life, it's a good 500 hours.

 

Not to mention, the fact that they are acknowledging these loopholes is evidence to me that they care about the state of this feature and it is not fully where they want it to be.

[Tin]

If you feel like it is cheesy, don't do it.

 

I have known that you could ride all night or tread water for several alphas, but simply choose to fight my horde nights.

 

You should not need some outside restraint to keep you from "cheating" the blood moon if you do not find it to be fun. No need to waste dev time engineering new penalties.

 

How about you quit telling people what they can or cannot suggest in a game forum?

I mean the comment you made earlier:

Why bother?

 

Who cares if someone runs, swims, digs or otherwise avoids horde night?

 

Let's stop trying to micromanage other people's play style and let them do WTF ever they want to do with their game.

 

Let them play however they want.

Is basically saying "suggestions", by merely reading it, has the power to make you, and others, play only certain ways?

Can you actually tell me how this is possible?

How is people suggesting stuff, on a forum no less, capable of telling anyone what to do in their game?

Honestly! please explain how that works?

[n2n1]

Have cars get stuck and start to slip when running over a zed. Hit a stack of Zeds and you're practically done for.

 

///

this is what a competent solution to the problem of transport looks like on a Bloody Night.

 

...and there is no magic like magnetic storms.

[n2n1]

Have cars get stuck and start to slip when running over a zed. Hit a stack of Zeds and you're practically done for.

 

///

 

 

in the continuation - as a solution with a gyrocopter:

 

- on a Bloody night, the vultures do not vomit to the pilot, but simply throw themselves on the main rotor of the gyrocopter like a kamikaze, after which it falls.

[SnowDog1942]

Why bother?

 

Who cares if someone runs, swims, digs or otherwise avoids horde night?

 

Let's stop trying to micromanage other people's play style and let them do WTF ever they want to do with their game.

 

Let them play however they want.

 

Again, i want challenges on horde night while driving for MY enjoyment. I dont care AT ALL how it affects you or anyone else. You might think u are the center of the universe and you may think people care about how u play. Newsflash, you and your play style, or anyone elses play style are not important to me in the slightest bit.

[HerrKingsley]

People like me are not caring about what other people do.

What we want is for us to have challenges to face if we try to do such things, because that's how we want to play our game.

There are 1,726 different settings to make your game easier. There are zero settings to give us our game.

 

Mod it!

[HerrKingsley]

Again, i want challenges on horde night while driving for MY enjoyment. I dont care AT ALL how it affects you or anyone else. You might think u are the center of the universe and you may think people care about how u play. Newsflash, you and your play style, or anyone elses play style are not important to me in the slightest bit.

 

Then mod it!