Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

Wrong and even more wrong with Alpha 18, we are working towards being able to play with just one attribute. Of course one person's must haves are different than anothers. To me its time to roll a new character if I want to do more stuff. Perk wise one melee weapon, one ranged, one armor is good enough, and the rest are just optional complimentary perks.

 

You've mentioned that there will be a melee weapon and a ranged weapon for each attribute - but how will that work for armour? Are you planning on having a different armour type per attribute too, or just sticking to a couple of perks for "light" and "heavy" armour?

[Roland]

This sounds terrible. Just because someone who is a good doctor does not mean they cannot be a good chief and so on. This seems like limiting the game for the sake of just limiting the game.

 

I think you are misunderstanding his intention. He intends to make it so that you can be successful without needing to go deep in more than one attribute. In A17 you might want to go deep in strength but you will also have to go deep in Intelligence if you want to be able to craft things like vehicles or top tier food and medicine and tools and weapons.

 

He isn't planning on limiting us to one attribute. He is planning on freeing us from the dependence upon the Intelligence attribute. You will still be able to progress and purchase perks from all five attributes if you want. But in A18 the intention is that if you want to roleplay an agility based character you will be able to do craft top tier gear that will support that attribute and be able to do well in the game without needing to perk heavily into additional attributes.

[FA_Q2]

This sounds terrible. Just because someone who is a good doctor does not mean they cannot be a good chief and so on. This seems like limiting the game for the sake of just limiting the game.

 

What's good atm is that you start off as a weakling however, after hard work and time you can become a terminator. You have earned it as you have fought off all and survived. Having these limits just limits fun. The first thing I'll do in A18 is have to increase the points given for leveling up. If the game only gets harder, then why can't I?

 

You read that different than I did. He did not state you cannot be good at multiple things - he stated that you only HAVE to be good at one thing. There is a massive difference. In 17.2, being a per character simply is not viable. At least not viable if you want to explore the game.

Why? Because mining is under str and crafting is under int - building and crafting a huge parts of gameplay. It sounds to me like they are addressing that by making a specialized build quite viable for the whole game - your crafting and options will be open even if you are a very heavy per player. You are still going to branch out.

 

Overall, what I want to see out of the progression system is a bunch of perks that I really want and have some open ended options. Right now I feel like the perk system is set - most perks have already been chosen for me because they are so integral into gameplay.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I think you are misunderstanding his intention. He intends to make it so that you can be successful without needing to go deep in more than one attribute. In A17 you might want to go deep in strength but you will also have to go deep in Intelligence if you want to be able to craft things like vehicles or top tier food and medicine and tools and weapons.

 

He isn't planning on limiting us to one attribute. He is planning on freeing us from the dependence upon the Intelligence attribute. You will still be able to progress and purchase perks from all five attributes if you want. But in A18 the intention is that if you want to roleplay an agility based character you will be able to do craft top tier gear that will support that attribute and be able to do well in the game without needing to perk heavily into additional attributes.

 

You know roland - you did not need to beat me to the punch

[AtomicUs5000]

I think you are misunderstanding his intention. He intends to make it so that you can be successful without needing to go deep in more than one attribute. In A17 you might want to go deep in strength but you will also have to go deep in Intelligence if you want to be able to craft things like vehicles or top tier food and medicine and tools and weapons.

 

He isn't planning on limiting us to one attribute. He is planning on freeing us from the dependence upon the Intelligence attribute. You will still be able to progress and purchase perks from all five attributes if you want. But in A18 the intention is that if you want to roleplay an agility based character you will be able to do craft top tier gear that will support that attribute and be able to do well in the game without needing to perk heavily into additional attributes.

 

That might be what he meant, but if that's what he meant, then he didn't understand what I meant... because what you are describing is something reasonable for a single player.

[Moldy Bread]

Yes, I misunderstood. I apologize. Though my concern about the "wet weather" system still stands.

[Ouch Quit It]

Who had April 17th?

 

(I kid, I'm in agreement with my biker friend on this one)

 

I agree with the biker and the caveman...thats bull♥♥♥♥ to toss out long time players ...we helped make the game what it is and to be tossed aside makes me doubt future purchases of TFP. Classic games are made from the support of fans/players....but you did say you were aiming for the 20 hour players...now we know you meant it. Sad

[faatal]

There are other ways too. Like preallocation and recycling of objects. Basically when the game loads you allocate all the objects you may need, and when you want to get rid of one, you just put it aside to be used again later, if needed. This prevents dynamic allocation and stops the need for garbage collection when the game is running. The downside is it's harder to implement.

 

We already do that. Many objects are reused, but not all. Many data structures are pooled, but not all. Then Unity or 3rd party libraries sometimes make garbage. The goal is not zero garbage, but a low garbage gen rate, which is collected at a smart time.

[Demonoid74]

Y- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

You know roland - you did not need to beat me to the punch

 

WTF? we had punch!? is there still any pie left?

[Odetta]

I think someone else posted about bouncing bettys, I remember googling it to see what they did lol. No plans for land mines right now, other than perhaps they will be governed by the demolitions expert perk and deal more damage.

 

Twas I good sir. It came to my attention that mines were in a bit of a crum-a-grackle. Yes, they are quite limpsey at giving zomboys a good razzleling I'd say.

[Tin]

I agree with the biker and the caveman...thats bull♥♥♥♥ to toss out long time players ...we helped make the game what it is and to be tossed aside makes me doubt future purchases of TFP. Classic games are made from the support of fans/players....but you did say you were aiming for the 20 hour players...now we know you meant it. Sad

 

I don't think they are just tossing aside the longtime players at all, at least I don't see it that way.

They have been making modding more robust, It might not end up being everything we would like it to be, in every area, but that's anything but tossing aside the long timers.

 

As for them focusing on the 20hr game.. yeah, that's a bit disappointing but,"It is What it is" and not uncommon with most of the games on the market. I took them at their word when they said this awhile ago, so I didn't hold much hope they would deviate from it all that much.

Anyhow, even with them going after the 20hr game, the game already provide more than 20hrs of play. All the long time players with 1000's of hours in, are proof of that.

 

heh, even games that say they have 60+hrs of game play, blah blah blah.. really don't. If you play them straight through and don't bother with all the side stuff that doesn't really matter in those games, it's really more than 20hrs as well. I've play many of them.

 

I just don't really understand why people are getting hurt and feeling rebuffed when they say that is all.

lol I'm probably the weird one I guess.

[wiggleslap]

Hi Madmole and Roland,

 

I don't want to be seen lazy for not reading the past post - I have been in an out of the hospital since October 2018 for a simple blood clot that pissed off the rest of my body... (That's just my summary). I play this game a lot - I was so excited when TFP were releasing almost weekly updates for testing on A17. I did see where Madmole was going to focus on the release of A18. It would be nice to see updates again - maybe on a bi-weekly or a monthly rotation. Set up a timer for the next release so the players can see the progress of the game. I have to say - this game is very unique and for players like myself - if you get to a point in the game and you get bored - restart a new game - and start from scratch.

 

To get to my point:

 

1- Please start releasing some type of updates again on a regular basis.

2- Start a new forum with a "Map" of when players can expect updates to the game.

3- The desert biome looks similar to "Road Runner and the Loony toon days", and that is a good thing. Love it.

4- From what I did see on the conversations on here - YES, random weather... Stepping into one biome and it just changes is not really natural. Sand storms, Raining days, Thunderstorms, Violent Thunderstorms, Soft snow falling, Blizzards that are just crazy, and temperature fluctuations from Freezing to Blistering hot. Soft wind to where you are getting wind storms. Natural weather that is present today for the game would be amazing. Now - for a bonus of the game - not really the player, it is a zombie world. Random radiation storms - they could be in the form of a snow storm or rain or what ever, Or the radiation storm could be just a random storm of its own.

5- TFP - a lot of silent players love this game and will not voice their positive or negative positions here. I am almost sure a lot of players are not even aware of this forum for feedback or just to chat with the developers and long standing players and modders.

 

Hey Roland - I was nice.... They are working on my medication for the pain - and Like I said in the past I am sorry for posting such negative stuff. I will most likely be gone most of May for Various surgeries. I have a $87,000.00 medical bill since October of last year. All I have to say is stay healthy and be nice to each other. Life is to short. I know. TFP have stepped up and are doing an amazing job "NOW". If that is a real picture of Madmole on his profile - shave, get waxing or you have the genes of "BigFoot" and you are hiding the DNA code of the living secret....... Thanks all, Thanks to the TFP, and (send little updates for us)

 

Paul

[pvwolfgang420]

power chords ftw

[Blake_]

Less is in fact always less. Many times it seems people thats who say less is more are actually just incapable of more - such as a bad drummer or guitarist. "LESS IS MORE DUDE!" That being said, the real talent is to know when less is better, to let something else stand out for example.

 

Less could be fun, it could be easier, it could be better..... however less is always less. And yes, sometimes less sucks.

 

Holy Boar Grace! That was deep.

[Wooof]

We have spikes that impale zombies, and barbed wire fences already. You can craft concrete walls, half walls, etc, and we have auto turrets. Fire barrels don't seem to interest me. Sorry it feels like we've already got you covered well, these are all fluff requests that don't add anything meaningful. I'd rather see a flamethrower trap or bear traps that turn them to crawlers and you have to reset the bear traps and repair them after some uses.

 

Thats too bad. I was just thiking that the traps would be end game stuff, big versions of tiny traps and fences but very expensive to make like tank trap spike would be 300 steels to craft and high durability. For fire barrels have spikes on the side that would impale zombies and burn them while there stuck on it. Ijust want fire barrels to be usefull for something else not just light source.

 

But im excited to your flamethrower and bear traps.

Thank you MM!

Keep up the good work!!!

A18 HYPED.

[sillls]

Again, realism fails in games.

 

That's a shame...

 

Well thanks for letting me know your not going to change it.

[khzmusik]

There is a new perception perk called the infiltrator that pops out an icon telling you of the kind of danger you are in. It starts with floor based traps and works up to auto turrets, aggro zombies to sleepers and sneaking players.

 

I love this idea.

[Roland]

I think the problem for some is they don't realize how close the game is to going gold. In the first few years there was all this untapped potential of what could be and it was fun to speculate and throw out answers and Madmole could always answer with "Sure, if we can" or "Maybe, because that sounds like a good idea" because there were so many possibilities while the journey was still near the beginning. Now we are at the end and the only answers to suggestions can be "No" or "Maybe, next game".

 

It's not that Madmole wants to disappoint us or shut down our dreams. It is just the nature of where the game is in development. It is also where the first 20 hours comment comes in. That is their focus RIGHT NOW. They are currently only wanting to get things done and ready for full release and to leave early access and so are resistant to distractions. If it won't help the game go to market and make a great first impression then they don't want to hear about it.

 

Does this mean they don't care about those who put 1000s of hours in or that they only want a game that lasts 20 hours?

 

OF COURSE NOT!!!!

 

Madmole has stated time and again that they plan to continue to support the game for a minimum of 2 years after gold. The content updates they release during that time will most certainly be for 20+ hour gaming. Let them focus on getting the game done and in a tip top best possible first impression shape for their full release launch and THEN it will be our time.

[FA_Q2]

WTF? we had punch!? is there still any pie left?

 

If you seen a picture of me you would be well aware that I leave no pie behind.

 

Ever.

 

Period.

 

 

[Death2gnomes]

It's a fact that exposure to cold weather increases your chance to get sick, and it makes for some interesting game mechanics, remedies and social interactions in a survival game. I envision players randomly coughing or sneezing and creating an AOE effect that may infect nearby players, wake zombies up, etc.

 

I agree it makes for some interesting game mechanics but the increased chance to get sick is less than you are making it out to be. You could also be a carrier for that "sick" and give it to someone else and never get sick, stick that into game mechanics! LOL

[toores]

I'd rather see a flamethrower trap or bear traps that turn them to crawlers and you have to reset the bear traps and repair them after some uses.

 

Bear traps should immobilize zombies. You set up the trap and it is able to catch 1 zombie. To use it again, you need to kill the zombie and activate the trap again.

This would be cool mechanic to try to catch some bigger zombies that are harder to fight.

[bdubyah]

Bear traps should immobilize zombies. You set up the trap and it is able to catch 1 zombie. To use it again, you need to kill the zombie and activate the trap again.

This would be cool mechanic to try to catch some bigger zombies that are harder to fight.

 

Maybe it does enough damage to cut weaker zed's legs off, but just damages and catches stronger ones?

[kettch]

I'm not a 1000+ hour guy, but I'm not a noob either. I'm coming at this from someone who primarily likes to build a great base and make it interesting, but who still feels the desire to either go out on outings based on need or send group members out with specific missions. That's what gives me a thrill in your game. I like being the guy who's organizing things at base, taking measure of things, solving problems, keeping others focused on goals, etc. We always get to a certain point where we really have everything running smoothly, and I'm always trying to think of new things the game could offer that would feel like we need to get out of the base in order to keep things running. I agree that I definitely don't want farming simulator, but I'm struggling to come up with other recurring and intuitive ways that get people into other biomes. I wouldn't mind having most crops growable anywhere, but have a small subset of crucial utility growables being locked into biomes for farming. Aloe for healing items, red tea, etc. Just have a clear UI text label on the seeds for those that says [bIOME HERE] ONLY.

 

I dunno, just spitballing. I'm sure you guys will come up with something better for this particular issue.

 

A single biome with seasons would obviate this and create a very compelling cadence for the game, but that seems like too enormous of a task for this late in development. You also made a good point about that not being compatible with PvP (unlucky bastards who join in the middle of Winter). Maybe for a future game or sequel.

 

Just to add some more perspective to this:

I'm a somewhat new player having started just about when A17 came about, currently still (barely) below three-digits in hours. I mostly play coop with a friend that I got into the game (even less hours than me).

 

I absolutely agree with the notion of MM not to overcomlicate things and having to keep in mind other players besides the long time regular faithful fans.

 

Still I disagree about biome limits for agriculture being a case of 'too complicated'. If anything, I see the current situation as a case of oversimplification. Limiting which plants can be cultivated by biome is in no way more complicated than, say, limiting crafting of certain items to a workbench or tablesaw. In fact my friend and me both EXPECTED that to be the case and were surprised to find out it was not when we started to grow stuff.

People are smart, they will get it if you just give them a good way to tell apart which plant grows where and maybe drop a hint in the journal.

 

Also, it's not like this is just forcing anyone to tediously create farms in all biomes they have to visit regularly. If I can't grow snowberries in my desert fortress, I might just as well just decide to make do without them. Or plan an occasional lotting tour to the snowy peaks of lil' alaska to collect some on the side. It creates choices and decisions and tedium only if I choose to go that path.

 

Oh, also a little thought on complexness in general: In my personal perception, I rarely have difficutly getting into a game because it is very complex, instead it seems much more important, that the complexity of different systems of the game is somewhat consistent. If other systems I have seen before had a certain level of complexity, like 7DTD simulates temperature in a certain way, has some kind of structural integrity etc., I also expect other aspects to be designed, maybe not necessarily on the same level of complexity, but at least with a similar mindset. And as long as my expectations are met (and the system has not been designed by some lunatic) I feel it is much easier and more natural to understand and get into that system.

To be clear, I feel like you (tfp) have at least an unconscious understanding of this and are pulling this off really well for the most part. I just felt like pointing this out explicitly with all the talk about complexity lately.

[LordPhoenix]

I've been pushing for special hazards and harder biomes for years, Nav might be big enough now to pull it off, but we have to weigh that with all our other goals and people seem to dislike changes. Everyone would have to spawn in a forest, and its kind of nice spawning anywhere, but if we made it too hard we couldn't do that.

 

everyone sets their dificulty level when starting, couldn't you tie that to the biome you spawn in?

[ktr]

We used to have fertile levels that could be used for restriction of what grows and we realized farming simulator is not what this game is all about. Overdesigned systems just don't get used by players. Arks farming is pretty stupid having to run irrigation pipes and collect dino poo and all that crap. I just want to plant some crops and come back later and harvest my ♥♥♥♥. I'd be ok with natural disasters wiping them out, but they should be easy to use.

 

The problem with you guys suggestions is you are all 1000+ hour veterans and just want more complex stuff. Like if you get in on EA and play the game every update you can absorb more advanced techniques because you played the game when it was basic. But if a new player comes in and its not easy to understand because we designed it around you guys who are bored wanting it harder... then thats just going to kill our johnny newcomes.

 

You have to go out, bash your head in with a rock and get amnesia, then play the game as a noob and see if it really needs that stuff lol. You have to keep new players in mind, and actually current players. I mean really that kind of stuff would make farming a big turn off to me. I don't want to set up a farm in each biome. Sure its unrealistic you can grow yucca in the snow, but its a game, and a game about fending off hordes and surviving in between. IF the in between is too tedious, you won't have time to do the fun stuff like build a base, do quests, etc.

 

As a thousand+ hour veteran, I thank you for not making farming more complicated.

[Guppycur]

Kool aid is delicious

 

If we are so close to gold (and yeh, I actually do believe we are) then why so many major shifts in how things work?

 

Even mm begrudgingly admitted 17 wasn't well received; perhaps they should have a serious conversation about pushing gold back, so that their final vision of the game is at least as awesome as the earlier iterations?

 

I'm not whining about being forgotten about, I recognize my money was spent a long time ago and I'm cool with that, but they're fixing to release a fairly boring game with a target audience of 20 to 30 hours, when they HAD a game that gave people thousands of hours...

 

It just doesn't make sense. Recidivism.