Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[Trankitas]

Either I'm getting alzheimers or you are fantasizing. I have no recollection of any mine update.

 

Maybe im crazy, but i think someone said in this thread that different type of mines where useless and you reply something about checking them out, removing them and make claymores, landmines, bouncing bettys or something.

[Eromivus]

I agree, they are more of a hassle than a must. There is the ore you might want exclusive to biomes. As we get closer to gold this is something we can shore up I'm sure.

 

In addition to ore/biome associations, crops only being growable in certain biomes would help with this and be logical. Want aloe and yucca? Either have your base in the desert and grow it there, or be forced to make periodic trips to that biome for stock. I understand the desire to not get overly fussy with things, but i think this is intuitive. See it growing in that biome? Well, that's probably a sign that it can only grow there.

[iBane]

No, I know good design and over design. 10 things to think about when entering a biome? Over design. 3 is almost always the magic number for everything. I mean, sure there can be 10 things different about a biome, but 10 things to prepare for? Overkill.

 

The magic number in meaningful change execution is nearly always found between 3-5 and usually it's 3.

[madmole]

Yes.

 

They bump into it and the spikes take damage.

 

I could see wooden breaking down but not something made of forged iron.

 

Again, realism fails in games.

[madmole]

Maybe im crazy, but i think someone said in this thread that different type of mines where useless and you reply something about checking them out, removing them and make claymores, landmines, bouncing bettys or something.

 

I think someone else posted about bouncing bettys, I remember googling it to see what they did lol. No plans for land mines right now, other than perhaps they will be governed by the demolitions expert perk and deal more damage.

[madmole]

In addition to ore/biome associations, crops only being growable in certain biomes would help with this and be logical. Want aloe and yucca? Either have your base in the desert and grow it there, or be forced to make periodic trips to that biome for stock. I understand the desire to not get overly fussy with things, but i think this is intuitive. See it growing in that biome? Well, that's probably a sign that it can only grow there.

 

We used to have fertile levels that could be used for restriction of what grows and we realized farming simulator is not what this game is all about. Overdesigned systems just don't get used by players. Arks farming is pretty stupid having to run irrigation pipes and collect dino poo and all that crap. I just want to plant some crops and come back later and harvest my ♥♥♥♥. I'd be ok with natural disasters wiping them out, but they should be easy to use.

 

The problem with you guys suggestions is you are all 1000+ hour veterans and just want more complex stuff. Like if you get in on EA and play the game every update you can absorb more advanced techniques because you played the game when it was basic. But if a new player comes in and its not easy to understand because we designed it around you guys who are bored wanting it harder... then thats just going to kill our johnny newcomes.

 

You have to go out, bash your head in with a rock and get amnesia, then play the game as a noob and see if it really needs that stuff lol. You have to keep new players in mind, and actually current players. I mean really that kind of stuff would make farming a big turn off to me. I don't want to set up a farm in each biome. Sure its unrealistic you can grow yucca in the snow, but its a game, and a game about fending off hordes and surviving in between. IF the in between is too tedious, you won't have time to do the fun stuff like build a base, do quests, etc.

[madmole]

The magic number in meaningful change execution is nearly always found between 3-5 and usually it's 3.

 

3 is the magic number most of the time from what we've found. And less is always more. I'd rather have one way to do things than 5. Five is just crazy. Like sure IRL maybe you could make vegetable stew with various combinations, but in the game we chose ONE way to do it because multiple recipes to craft the same thing stink. It might use a trinket you were saving. Like I think when we had coal torches I crafted a ton of torches and it used up all my coal instead of the lard I had. So then I couldn't craft any bullets.

 

Its always better to lean on the simple side. You can always clunk it up later

[josefdarks]

Its nice to be grounded ideas in reality but wise not limit yourself to it.

I like the game like this who does not like his mechanics change

Parameters records xml needless more difficulty more content and more armor

[SnowDog1942]

3 is the magic number most of the time from what we've found. And less is always more. I'd rather have one way to do things than 5. Five is just crazy. Like sure IRL maybe you could make vegetable stew with various combinations, but in the game we chose ONE way to do it because multiple recipes to craft the same thing stink. It might use a trinket you were saving. Like I think when we had coal torches I crafted a ton of torches and it used up all my coal instead of the lard I had. So then I couldn't craft any bullets.

 

Its always better to lean on the simple side. You can always clunk it up later

 

Less is in fact always less. Many times it seems people thats who say less is more are actually just incapable of more - such as a bad drummer or guitarist. "LESS IS MORE DUDE!" That being said, the real talent is to know when less is better, to let something else stand out for example.

 

Less could be fun, it could be easier, it could be better..... however less is always less. And yes, sometimes less sucks.

[Eromivus]

We used to have fertile levels that could be used for restriction of what grows and we realized farming simulator is not what this game is all about. Overdesigned systems just don't get used by players. Arks farming is pretty stupid having to run irrigation pipes and collect dino poo and all that crap. I just want to plant some crops and come back later and harvest my ♥♥♥♥. I'd be ok with natural disasters wiping them out, but they should be easy to use.

 

The problem with you guys suggestions is you are all 1000+ hour veterans and just want more complex stuff. Like if you get in on EA and play the game every update you can absorb more advanced techniques because you played the game when it was basic. But if a new player comes in and its not easy to understand because we designed it around you guys who are bored wanting it harder... then thats just going to kill our johnny newcomes.

 

You have to go out, bash your head in with a rock and get amnesia, then play the game as a noob and see if it really needs that stuff lol. You have to keep new players in mind, and actually current players. I mean really that kind of stuff would make farming a big turn off to me. I don't want to set up a farm in each biome. Sure its unrealistic you can grow yucca in the snow, but its a game, and a game about fending off hordes and surviving in between. IF the in between is too tedious, you won't have time to do the fun stuff like build a base, do quests, etc.

 

I'm not a 1000+ hour guy, but I'm not a noob either. I'm coming at this from someone who primarily likes to build a great base and make it interesting, but who still feels the desire to either go out on outings based on need or send group members out with specific missions. That's what gives me a thrill in your game. I like being the guy who's organizing things at base, taking measure of things, solving problems, keeping others focused on goals, etc. We always get to a certain point where we really have everything running smoothly, and I'm always trying to think of new things the game could offer that would feel like we need to get out of the base in order to keep things running. I agree that I definitely don't want farming simulator, but I'm struggling to come up with other recurring and intuitive ways that get people into other biomes. I wouldn't mind having most crops growable anywhere, but have a small subset of crucial utility growables being locked into biomes for farming. Aloe for healing items, red tea, etc. Just have a clear UI text label on the seeds for those that says [bIOME HERE] ONLY.

 

I dunno, just spitballing. I'm sure you guys will come up with something better for this particular issue.

 

A single biome with seasons would obviate this and create a very compelling cadence for the game, but that seems like too enormous of a task for this late in development. You also made a good point about that not being compatible with PvP (unlucky bastards who join in the middle of Winter). Maybe for a future game or sequel.

[JaxTeller718]

We used to have fertile levels that could be used for restriction of what grows and we realized farming simulator is not what this game is all about. Overdesigned systems just don't get used by players. Arks farming is pretty stupid having to run irrigation pipes and collect dino poo and all that crap. I just want to plant some crops and come back later and harvest my ♥♥♥♥. I'd be ok with natural disasters wiping them out, but they should be easy to use.

 

The problem with you guys suggestions is you are all 1000+ hour veterans and just want more complex stuff. Like if you get in on EA and play the game every update you can absorb more advanced techniques because you played the game when it was basic. But if a new player comes in and its not easy to understand because we designed it around you guys who are bored wanting it harder... then thats just going to kill our johnny newcomes.

 

You have to go out, bash your head in with a rock and get amnesia, then play the game as a noob and see if it really needs that stuff lol. You have to keep new players in mind, and actually current players. I mean really that kind of stuff would make farming a big turn off to me. I don't want to set up a farm in each biome. Sure its unrealistic you can grow yucca in the snow, but its a game, and a game about fending off hordes and surviving in between. IF the in between is too tedious, you won't have time to do the fun stuff like build a base, do quests, etc.

 

This may be true but those noobs turn into 1000 plus hour gamers. IF there is a reason to. We had reason to. We didnt gain our 1000 plus playing A17, we gained it playing a game that for 16 alphas your team and yourself thought good enough to present.

 

So now the shift in focus is to lure the new gamers in, practically abandoning the majority of your long time fans and community. Things like farming and mining are not supposed to be noob friendly. If you make EVERYTHING noob friendly then what kind of game do you have left?

 

I find it hilarious you often put down Ark as stupid. Its not the first time you have posted this. Yet look at Arks numbers. Several years later they hold quite strong. And they retain their core community because they dont reinvent the wheel. They add to it, make it more complex and give people reasons to come back, reasons to stay in game longer and reasons to progress. 7 Days is quickly running out of these reasons.

 

There used to be a time when wiping hurt. Because things took a while to learn and achieve. Now it seems like wiping isnt so bad because in a few days you will have it all back again.

 

Ill always be a fan of you and this game but it saddens me. I know Im not the target audience anymore. How long anyone plays this game for means nothing to you and the team. Its the sale. You make no more if they play 10 minutes or 10 years. Lets just hope all these new customers become the die hards we used to be so the positive word of mouth can be passed down to a new generation.

[AtomicUs5000]

Wrong and even more wrong with Alpha 18, we are working towards being able to play with just one attribute. Of course one person's must haves are different than anothers. To me its time to roll a new character if I want to do more stuff. Perk wise one melee weapon, one ranged, one armor is good enough, and the rest are just optional complimentary perks.

 

Well as of right now it is correct... and is until A18 exists. Besides, I wasn't just referring to combat. I know these days when people think 7D2D you think zombie killing... but for most of us it's also mining, resource gathering, building... of which you need to have a nice balance of to play single player.

[FA_Q2]

They are boring not because they are not dungeons. They simply dont have the same level of detail as the new dungeon POIs.

 

The new POIs look like a lot more work went into them (and had a lot more options for visual variations abailable).

 

But that approach would also improve the classic non restrictive buildings.

 

Yes. The devs have already stated that they are making many more POI's and that many are not going to be the dungeion style that we got with many of the new POI's added in 17.

 

So, what is your point then? The old POI's are terrible as they were not final products. New POI's are coming that will fill the simple POI role.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

MM,

 

I have seen little to nothing posted on solar power for a long time. Right now, solar is utterly useless because the performance impact is insane on even simple circuits. I really, really, REALLY want to convert to a renewable power system but it is just not feasible at the moment. Is there any indication on when this may change if at all? Are there any additions that you guys really think is going to be made to electrical options?

[Guppycur]

This may be true but those noobs turn into 1000 plus hour gamers. IF there is a reason to. We had reason to. We didnt gain our 1000 plus playing A17, we gained it playing a game that for 16 alphas your team and yourself thought good enough to present.

 

So now the shift in focus is to lure the new gamers in, practically abandoning the majority of your long time fans and community. Things like farming and mining are not supposed to be noob friendly. If you make EVERYTHING noob friendly then what kind of game do you have left?

 

I find it hilarious you often put down Ark as stupid. Its not the first time you have posted this. Yet look at Arks numbers. Several years later they hold quite strong. And they retain their core community because they dont reinvent the wheel. They add to it, make it more complex and give people reasons to come back, reasons to stay in game longer and reasons to progress. 7 Days is quickly running out of these reasons.

 

There used to be a time when wiping hurt. Because things took a while to learn and achieve. Now it seems like wiping isnt so bad because in a few days you will have it all back again.

 

Ill always be a fan of you and this game but it saddens me. I know Im not the target audience anymore. How long anyone plays this game for means nothing to you and the team. Its the sale. You make no more if they play 10 minutes or 10 years. Lets just hope all these new customers become the die hards we used to be so the positive word of mouth can be passed down to a new generation.

 

Who had April 17th?

 

(I kid, I'm in agreement with my biker friend on this one)

[iBane]

3 is the magic number most of the time from what we've found. And less is always more. I'd rather have one way to do things than 5. Five is just crazy. Like sure IRL maybe you could make vegetable stew with various combinations, but in the game we chose ONE way to do it because multiple recipes to craft the same thing stink. It might use a trinket you were saving. Like I think when we had coal torches I crafted a ton of torches and it used up all my coal instead of the lard I had. So then I couldn't craft any bullets.

 

Its always better to lean on the simple side. You can always clunk it up later

 

Agree completely. Simple elegance is always the desired outcome.

[Moldy Bread]

Wrong and even more wrong with Alpha 18, we are working towards being able to play with just one attribute. Of course one person's must haves are different than anothers. To me its time to roll a new character if I want to do more stuff. Perk wise one melee weapon, one ranged, one armor is good enough, and the rest are just optional complimentary perks.

 

This sounds terrible. Just because someone who is a good doctor does not mean they cannot be a good chief and so on. This seems like limiting the game for the sake of just limiting the game.

 

What's good atm is that you start off as a weakling however, after hard work and time you can become a terminator. You have earned it as you have fought off all and survived. Having these limits just limits fun. The first thing I'll do in A18 is have to increase the points given for leveling up. If the game only gets harder, then why can't I?

 

Also, can't say I like the idea of this "wet weather" system. The weather system in the game atm is already horrendous, if you walk into a snow biome you turn into an icicle and if you walk into a desert you combust (making me wonder how there were even towns and zombies in there to begin with as surly everyone who was wearing normal clothes would have died anyway) it seems like another artificial problem being added that no one was really asking for. Instead, why not add new zombies with new roles and etc?

 

The issue with this is sometimes their really is nothing to do but explore, either the base is finished or you need to go gather resources to work on the base. But since it's raining then I can't go outside so I may as well just minimize my game and watch a Youtube video until the rain stops as I can't do anything else. To be honest the current too hot and too cold system is fine (even though it needs some work), because being wet doesn't actually give you a cold, a cold is caused by a virus (which is only helped by you being cold) so as long as you are still a good temperature then you should be fine.

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

Wrong and even more wrong with Alpha 18, we are working towards being able to play with just one attribute. Of course one person's must haves are different than anothers. To me its time to roll a new character if I want to do more stuff. Perk wise one melee weapon, one ranged, one armor is good enough, and the rest are just optional complimentary perks.

 

You've mentioned that there will be a melee weapon and a ranged weapon for each attribute - but how will that work for armour? Are you planning on having a different armour type per attribute too, or just sticking to a couple of perks for "light" and "heavy" armour?

[Roland]

This sounds terrible. Just because someone who is a good doctor does not mean they cannot be a good chief and so on. This seems like limiting the game for the sake of just limiting the game.

 

I think you are misunderstanding his intention. He intends to make it so that you can be successful without needing to go deep in more than one attribute. In A17 you might want to go deep in strength but you will also have to go deep in Intelligence if you want to be able to craft things like vehicles or top tier food and medicine and tools and weapons.

 

He isn't planning on limiting us to one attribute. He is planning on freeing us from the dependence upon the Intelligence attribute. You will still be able to progress and purchase perks from all five attributes if you want. But in A18 the intention is that if you want to roleplay an agility based character you will be able to do craft top tier gear that will support that attribute and be able to do well in the game without needing to perk heavily into additional attributes.

[FA_Q2]

This sounds terrible. Just because someone who is a good doctor does not mean they cannot be a good chief and so on. This seems like limiting the game for the sake of just limiting the game.

 

What's good atm is that you start off as a weakling however, after hard work and time you can become a terminator. You have earned it as you have fought off all and survived. Having these limits just limits fun. The first thing I'll do in A18 is have to increase the points given for leveling up. If the game only gets harder, then why can't I?

 

You read that different than I did. He did not state you cannot be good at multiple things - he stated that you only HAVE to be good at one thing. There is a massive difference. In 17.2, being a per character simply is not viable. At least not viable if you want to explore the game.

Why? Because mining is under str and crafting is under int - building and crafting a huge parts of gameplay. It sounds to me like they are addressing that by making a specialized build quite viable for the whole game - your crafting and options will be open even if you are a very heavy per player. You are still going to branch out.

 

Overall, what I want to see out of the progression system is a bunch of perks that I really want and have some open ended options. Right now I feel like the perk system is set - most perks have already been chosen for me because they are so integral into gameplay.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I think you are misunderstanding his intention. He intends to make it so that you can be successful without needing to go deep in more than one attribute. In A17 you might want to go deep in strength but you will also have to go deep in Intelligence if you want to be able to craft things like vehicles or top tier food and medicine and tools and weapons.

 

He isn't planning on limiting us to one attribute. He is planning on freeing us from the dependence upon the Intelligence attribute. You will still be able to progress and purchase perks from all five attributes if you want. But in A18 the intention is that if you want to roleplay an agility based character you will be able to do craft top tier gear that will support that attribute and be able to do well in the game without needing to perk heavily into additional attributes.

 

You know roland - you did not need to beat me to the punch

[AtomicUs5000]

I think you are misunderstanding his intention. He intends to make it so that you can be successful without needing to go deep in more than one attribute. In A17 you might want to go deep in strength but you will also have to go deep in Intelligence if you want to be able to craft things like vehicles or top tier food and medicine and tools and weapons.

 

He isn't planning on limiting us to one attribute. He is planning on freeing us from the dependence upon the Intelligence attribute. You will still be able to progress and purchase perks from all five attributes if you want. But in A18 the intention is that if you want to roleplay an agility based character you will be able to do craft top tier gear that will support that attribute and be able to do well in the game without needing to perk heavily into additional attributes.

 

That might be what he meant, but if that's what he meant, then he didn't understand what I meant... because what you are describing is something reasonable for a single player.

[Moldy Bread]

Yes, I misunderstood. I apologize. Though my concern about the "wet weather" system still stands.

[Ouch Quit It]

Who had April 17th?

 

(I kid, I'm in agreement with my biker friend on this one)

 

I agree with the biker and the caveman...thats bull♥♥♥♥ to toss out long time players ...we helped make the game what it is and to be tossed aside makes me doubt future purchases of TFP. Classic games are made from the support of fans/players....but you did say you were aiming for the 20 hour players...now we know you meant it. Sad

[faatal]

There are other ways too. Like preallocation and recycling of objects. Basically when the game loads you allocate all the objects you may need, and when you want to get rid of one, you just put it aside to be used again later, if needed. This prevents dynamic allocation and stops the need for garbage collection when the game is running. The downside is it's harder to implement.

 

We already do that. Many objects are reused, but not all. Many data structures are pooled, but not all. Then Unity or 3rd party libraries sometimes make garbage. The goal is not zero garbage, but a low garbage gen rate, which is collected at a smart time.

[Demonoid74]

Y- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

You know roland - you did not need to beat me to the punch

 

WTF? we had punch!? is there still any pie left?

[Odetta]

I think someone else posted about bouncing bettys, I remember googling it to see what they did lol. No plans for land mines right now, other than perhaps they will be governed by the demolitions expert perk and deal more damage.

 

Twas I good sir. It came to my attention that mines were in a bit of a crum-a-grackle. Yes, they are quite limpsey at giving zomboys a good razzleling I'd say.