Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[madmole]

Based on all I have read, it sounds like the current development strategy is sound. The game needs to pass the 20 hour newbie test first before anything else is focused on. Did they stay and want more after 20 hours? If not, you have major problems. In my view, a game is much like a story, with three phases. Those first 20 hours introduce the plot, characters etc. The middle is where things develop and significant challenges occur. The end game varies, but it can be pursuing individual goals like just survive, be all you can be, or chill out and create.

 

To me, as a 2000+ hour player (although id guess 1/2 of that is developing/testing mods) who had a long career as a director of software development teams, the current game offers good content and progression for all three phases. With the modding hooks, it is possible to make this sandbox tell just about any story one could imagine. It is impossible for TFP to deliver everyone's idea of "their" personal story, so we get TFPs story and the tools to make it our own. That is more than enough for me.

 

Thanks. Amidst all the complaints this is encouraging. I still think A17 was great it was just poorly balanced and too limited. A18 will rectify that and bring back a lot of the things player missed.

[Damocles]

Except they didn't have a perk tree dedicated to it and it was biased towards the Kajiit. It was a sub skill of heavy armor, it never really felt that great. You can do it in Fallout 4 but its cheesy using vats all the time to close the distance in a milisecond.

 

Well, they did not emphasize it, but there was the Gloves of the Pugilist that offered a (unique) buff to hand-to-hand, that could be used in enchanting.

[Thecolours]

How many more alphas do you have planned out before you go gold?

[Sakurambo]

playing mostly SP i'm happy for the focus on the first 30 hours

i rarely play more then 50h in a word, after that i became bored and need new challenge

 

in A18 there are a chance to see stat regarding stun/bleed/knockout chance in the descripiton of every weapon?

[Weazelsun]

Holy ♥♥♥♥ you win misinterpretation of the year award. How does focusing on polishing the game hurt the veterans who crawled over broken glass to play this game? It improves the experience for everyone. How can anyone become a veteran if the first experience isn't fun? Are you angry that new players won't get stuttering and crashes? We're aiming at making sure the first 20 hours are a blast, so they can become 2000 hour guys. JEEZ COUGH COUGH

 

Yes, to hell with the newbies. I remember back in the day we had to go through literal ♥♥♥♥ to get ♥♥♥♥ for fertilizer! Look at the weaklings now, all they have to do is get a hoe and till the land and spec into living off the land and now they can gather a lot of crops! /SARCASM

 

Though it does make me wonder. Were players really tired of doing the above? Having to find poop to make fertilizer... like for me it gave me a reason to head out. Same as having gone out to find schematics. In the end as long as I can build, I'll continue playing the game.

[hillbilly]

A18 -

 

Bring back player movement speed, this was a ridiculous change. If I want to strafe or run backwards it should be an option, maybe have run backwards use 2x stamina, but to remove it completely was uncalled for and is in fact the reason I do not play 7dtd anymore.

 

Fix the POI's, 100 zeds in every building, another useless "feature".

 

Tone down default zed damage to blocks, multiplayer maps are a MESS.

 

Remove or give the option to remove digging zeds, another useless "feature", that has all but destroyed gameplay for newbies, who as a server operator are the ones we try to reel in the most.

 

I really miss playing 7dtd, it used to be the best game on steam, but as it stands I can not stomach the changes and have filled the void by playing civ V. This game is NOT fallout, please stop trying to make it so, if I wanted to play fallout I have them all and would do so.

 

my 2 cents @ 4.5k hours and maybe 20 hours in a17. A17 was a total bomb, isn't it obvious.

[Eromivus]

I apologize for bringing up farming, since that seems to have turned into something negative. I actually think farming is just fine as it is; I only made the biome planting restriction suggestion because I agreed with another poster about the biomes feeling a little superfluous, and that was the first thing that came to mind as a way to add some significance to the different biomes. While I wouldn't mind farming being more involved in some post-release update (with a good design, not complication for the sake of it), I agree that it doesn't warrant being touched until the game is out. It works, is rewarding, and doesn't add any friction to the game.

 

I also wanted to add that while I faced some hitches with A17, I had a lot of fun and could definitely see the direction you were going in. I think the future of the game is bright. I'm actually really looking forward to the next A17 release so I can start a new game and try to make Red Mesa my base. Love that POI.

[madmole]

I am rewording perks at the moment as we have more space for long descriptions. While doing it I'm improving some perks. If there are some farm related perk ideas I'm game. I don't want to change how you plant or harvest though in this conversation.

[madmole]

A18 -

 

Bring back player movement speed, this was a ridiculous change. If I want to strafe or run backwards it should be an option, maybe have run backwards use 2x stamina, but to remove it completely was uncalled for and is in fact the reason I do not play 7dtd anymore.

 

Fix the POI's, 100 zeds in every building, another useless "feature".

 

Tone down default zed damage to blocks, multiplayer maps are a MESS.

 

Remove or give the option to remove digging zeds, another useless "feature", that has all but destroyed gameplay for newbies, who as a server operator are the ones we try to reel in the most.

 

I really miss playing 7dtd, it used to be the best game on steam, but as it stands I can not stomach the changes and have filled the void by playing civ V. This game is NOT fallout, please stop trying to make it so, if I wanted to play fallout I have them all and would do so.

 

my 2 cents @ 4.5k hours and maybe 20 hours in a17. A17 was a total bomb, isn't it obvious.

Hey Hillbilly, I remember you posting years and years ago. And while I don't agree with everything you say I acknowledge the spirit of your message and think we are moving closer to a game you will enjoy again. Thanks.

[Axe13]

Hey, I've mentioned this before, but not sure if any devs have seen my request, so I figured I'd ask again.

 

Can you make items useable in the inventory by holding shift and right clicking?

 

Pretty please?

[Matyese]

@madmole Have you seen Subquake's Undead Legacy mod for Alpha 17? It's in works actually. He posted a brand new HUD today on forums and posts much more on Discord. It's more than amazing

[BioFringe]

Farming is done. It works. Its not a major component of the game and most players don't even bother with it, why should we redesign it for the 20th time? There are a lot of players tired of us changing things that don't need changed, and I'm saying farming is one of those things.

 

Anyhow we're working on making most of the A16 players happier, I think it was the lack of a reason to go looting and too much stamina drain and too much grind and level gates and performance all at once causing most of the grief. We're working hard to overcome these issues and I am truly excited for A18 I think the progression system is going to be much better. We're planning on testing and balancing quite a while before it goes out, so hopefully we can redeem ourselves to the long time fans.

 

Thank you for the response. It means a lot and I think you know that judging by the fact that you personally respond to almost every post in this thread. Very commendable and appreciated. Farming's cool...I only brought it up as an example but in general I fully agree with what Eromivus wrote about it a few posts up. The second paragraph is very well said and is why I continue to support you and yours. To show that...since I played Devil's Advocate mostly against you I'd like to do the same only this time mostly in favor of you. To that end here are some of your most recent post that I love and think everyone should keep in mind before posting. They show your openness to ideas and your willingness to listen to others even if you don't agree with them completely. Most importantly, to me, it shows that you have a firm grasp of the situation and I remain optimistic because of that...

 

I am rewording perks at the moment as we have more space for long descriptions. While doing it I'm improving some perks. If there are some farm related perk ideas I'm game. I don't want to change how you plant or harvest though in this conversation.

 

Hey Hillbilly, I remember you posting years and years ago. And while I don't agree with everything you say I acknowledge the spirit of your message and think we are moving closer to a game you will enjoy again. Thanks.

 

Peace!

[Guppycur]

What is close at the 6.4 year mark? And A17 was in the works about 2 years ago, so its more about finishing that up to a shippable quality.

 

And for the love of god read my other recent post about the 20 hour thing, FFS.

 

I'll make you a deal. I'll read all of your posts if you read all of mine.

 

(I actually have read all of yours, but things change a lot and sometimes things said at one point don't apply later, and then those things don't apply even later... Remember when it was beta after a17?)

 

Point is, I get that you guys want to get to gold, it simply makes sense, but after having pushed out a VERY unpopular major alpha, is this really the right time?

 

Yeh yeh post gold dlc etc, but then that makes good arbitrary, so what's the point of pushing to gold?

 

Help me understand. (Not that you owe me, I'm not an entitled flake)

[Ezed]

I am rewording perks at the moment as we have more space for long descriptions. While doing it I'm improving some perks. If there are some farm related perk ideas I'm game. I don't want to change how you plant or harvest though in this conversation.

 

I hope you drop the 'Perception', 'Agility', etc tabs. Besides the fact they're too Fallout-ish, for me trying to get back into the game I find it frustrating to have to try and find the perk I want. IE..looking for something to boost my archery...is that under Perception or Intelligence, or what...so I have to go through each page reading each sub-heading. Eventually I may memorize them but maybe just make the tabs, 'Ranged Weapons', 'Melee', 'Looting' etc. To me it removes something that does nothing except muddy the already 'wall of text' skills page UI.

 

Just perspective from a 1000+ guy starting new after more than two years away and struggling to wrap my head around these new skill trees.

[Thecolours]

Madmole, have you already finished the archery books? I would love, love to see those.

[vonstorm]

Getting better and better.

 

Farming is done. It works. Its not a major component of the game and most players don't even bother with it, why should we redesign it for the 20th time? There are a lot of players tired of us changing things that don't need changed, and I'm saying farming is one of those things.

 

Anyhow we're working on making most of the A16 players happier, I think it was the lack of a reason to go looting and too much stamina drain and too much grind and level gates and performance all at once causing most of the grief. We're working hard to overcome these issues and I am truly excited for A18 I think the progression system is going to be much better. We're planning on testing and balancing quite a while before it goes out, so hopefully we can redeem ourselves to the long time fans.

 

This is probably the best quote Ive read in a while. Added to the setup options we now have I think the game just took a huge leap forward with the above. Hopefully when it goes Gold, we will get more setup options to further define the environment.

[madmole]

I'll make you a deal. I'll read all of your posts if you read all of mine.

 

(I actually have read all of yours, but things change a lot and sometimes things said at one point don't apply later, and then those things don't apply even later... Remember when it was beta after a17?)

 

Point is, I get that you guys want to get to gold, it simply makes sense, but after having pushed out a VERY unpopular major alpha, is this really the right time?

 

Yeh yeh post gold dlc etc, but then that makes good arbitrary, so what's the point of pushing to gold?

 

Help me understand. (Not that you owe me, I'm not an entitled flake)

I can 99% confirm an A19, so I really don't see how going gold is related to A17. We have plenty of time to get the game playing great. A19 will probably be when its really playing sweet until then I can't see the point of beating the dead 16 horse further.

 

As a team we want to go gold. The process of going gold is good for everyone. Getting all the bugs fixed and performance good an d a polished experience needs to happen. We promised it. Why delay that infinitely? Post gold updates should continue for a while so its all good. We just want to raise the price to 129.99 asap, so you better act now before this amazing opportunity ends!

[madmole]

I hope you drop the 'Perception', 'Agility', etc tabs. Besides the fact they're too Fallout-ish, for me trying to get back into the game I find it frustrating to have to try and find the perk I want. IE..looking for something to boost my archery...is that under Perception or Intelligence, or what...so I have to go through each page reading each sub-heading. Eventually I may memorize them but maybe just make the tabs, 'Ranged Weapons', 'Melee', 'Looting' etc. To me it removes something that does nothing except muddy the already 'wall of text' skills page UI.

 

Just perspective from a 1000+ guy starting new after more than two years away and struggling to wrap my head around these new skill trees.

All you do is type arc in the search window and boom its right there. Adding a sea of perks and multi pages would enrage many.

 

Its a lot better to look at now, I'll post a screen soon. Each perk rank has a unique name and decent description in a space with a bigger font and easy to read.

[HungryZombie]

3 is the magic number most of the time from what we've found. And less is always more. I'd rather have one way to do things than 5. Five is just crazy. Like sure IRL maybe you could make vegetable stew with various combinations, but in the game we chose ONE way to do it because multiple recipes to craft the same thing stink. It might use a trinket you were saving. Like I think when we had coal torches I crafted a ton of torches and it used up all my coal instead of the lard I had. So then I couldn't craft any bullets.

 

Its always better to lean on the simple side. You can always clunk it up later

 

Everyone knows the number is 3 both for game design & holy hand grenades. Just ask the Rabbit of Caerbannong about it.

[josefdarks]

Less is in fact always less. Many times it seems people thats who say less is more are actually just incapable of more - such as a bad drummer or guitarist. "LESS IS MORE DUDE!" That being said, the real talent is to know when less is better, to let something else stand out for example.

 

Less could be fun, it could be easier, it could be better..... however less is always less. And yes, sometimes less sucks.

if less as the armors what's in the game more armor y gas mask more more I like the game its mechanics but not its low content if it were not for a mod I did not open mechanical weapons armor and vehicles except what the game offers use 132 mods and that's why I play to the game we are this community of consumers it has us what to listen Well, the client is always right you need more clothes and more doors and chimneys that throw smoke to create a factory since we use a foundry I have a factory but no an industrial fireplace I can only put pipe one had to decorate My English is not very good because I am from another nation which it's I put it to yes to define it What is lacking more content

[Ezed]

All you do is type arc in the search window and boom its right there. Adding a sea of perks and multi pages would enrage many.

 

Its a lot better to look at now, I'll post a screen soon. Each perk rank has a unique name and decent description in a space with a bigger font and easy to read.

 

Oh...I didn't know it was getting a new look. As mentioned, I'm out of the loop a bit. Glad to hear! Sorry to bother.

[mikewuk]

Ha

 

Yes, to hell with the newbies. I remember back in the day we had to go through literal ♥♥♥♥ to get ♥♥♥♥ for fertilizer! Look at the weaklings now, all they have to do is get a hoe and till the land and spec into living off the land and now they can gather a lot of crops! /SARCASM

 

Though it does make me wonder. Were players really tired of doing the above? Having to find poop to make fertilizer... like for me it gave me a reason to head out. Same as having gone out to find schematics. In the end as long as I can build, I'll continue playing the game.

 

I forgot about the poop.

[iBane]

Dude chillax. There is no shift in focus, I'm trying to teach you guys some game design. I didn't say I was dumbing down farming, I said there is no reason to complicate it and alienate new players, something that SHOULD be a concern to you if you want an amazing sequel we need to finish 7 Days in a way that profits and has the most mass appeal. You always have to ask yourself, is this needlessly complicated? Do I need a wiki or youtube tutorial to understand it?

 

I love Ark, but is it perfect? Hell no its stupid as ♥♥♥♥ in a lot of ways but with a few mods and some good friends to play with it can be pretty fun. Having to run pipes with their crappy building system and feed the dino stuff to make him ♥♥♥♥ is just too much. You can't even plant in the dirt, so whatever. Its not farming its a greenhouse simulator. Then the 12 hours it takes to tame? Ridiculous small stack counts? Very few things from Ark have inspired our design choices, that is for sure.

 

Then they sold scorched earth as a dlc before releasing a season pass. Literally screwed customers. Then the flier nerf. I could go on and on about a lot of klunky systems it has. None of this stopped me from enjoying it for the systems that were fun. Well it did initially, but some friends told me with mods and and options its fun so I came back and got over the learning curve and got a lot of hours in it then.

 

Our game will always be hard and a challenge, but it should be accessible and not impossible to learn. We totally care about all the fans, but a lot of you are so bored you are here instead of enjoying the game, and idle hands are the devils workshop.

 

Skyrim is an amazing game but I have 2000 hours so the only thing keeping it remotely interesting is mods, roleplay and weird builds. You sir are at that point where you want the game to scratch that itch, but it just can't. It can't. All you can do is shelf it and come back later and hope to feel a bit of that magic one more time. Its just the normal process. Games aren't intended to last 10000 hours. Its interesting when they do but at a certain point people need new stimulus, like a sequel. Skyrim was the only thing that fixed why I was bored with Oblivion, despite having some great mods. Once you log so many hours it gets harder and harder to find the magic. People aren't meant to do the same crap over and over again, we're meant to learn new things and expand and grow.

 

Definitive post.

[chikorina]

I am rewording perks at the moment as we have more space for long descriptions. While doing it I'm improving some perks. If there are some farm related perk ideas I'm game. I don't want to change how you plant or harvest though in this conversation.

 

It would be nice to have a perk that lets me have an underground farm. By buying the perk, you'd be able to either craft seeds that can be grown without sunlight, or be able to craft lights that act as sunlight. Faster hoes would be nice too. Just a thought.

[Dimpy]

Hey, I've mentioned this before, but not sure if any devs have seen my request, so I figured I'd ask again.

 

Can you make items useable in the inventory by holding shift and right clicking?

 

Pretty please?

 

I think there's a "use" button in the inventory screen.