OzHawkeye Posted June 15, 2018 Share Posted June 15, 2018 Excellent update Roland - the better, more intelligent pathing sounds like a real winner - it's a MAJOR boost for playability to see (hopefully) no more spinning zombies! Good read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted June 15, 2018 Author Share Posted June 15, 2018 Last night I did a quick test of the old exploit of nerdpoling up five and then over five using frame blocks and....it still works. Seems they were confused by zero pathways possible and didn’t have any task programmed into them to go hit the one stilt keeping me perched since it was offset from my position. They just stood below me. I recorded it and sent it to faatal and he said not to worry. He has that covered but just hasn’t added the “can’t reach player so go destroy nearby blocks” code yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenpaiThatIngnoresYou Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Last night I did a quick test of the old exploit of nerdpoling up five and then over five using frame blocks and....it still works. Seems they were confused by zero pathways possible and didn’t have any task programmed into them to go hit the one stilt keeping me perched since it was offset from my position. They just stood below me. I recorded it and sent it to faatal and he said not to worry. He has that covered but just hasn’t added the “can’t reach player so go destroy nearby blocks” code yet. Maybe we have been looking at this the wrong way? Why not have frame blocks act like ladders too? that way the zombies would just climb up the frame nerd poles and get you that way? It would also make construction for huge projects much easier because you can use the wood frames as a sort of scaffolding that you can climb up and down, like the industrial craft scaffold blocks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ripflex Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Thank you for the A17 testing experience, looks like more bugs still to squash. I was wondering are you guys going to release an unstable beta prior to A17s release, to maybe get more bug feedback ? Or are you going to stick with internal testing ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 They call it "experimental", but yes. Typically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crater Creator Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Maybe we have been looking at this the wrong way? Why not have frame blocks act like ladders too? that way the zombies would just climb up the frame nerd poles and get you that way? It would also make construction for huge projects much easier because you can use the wood frames as a sort of scaffolding that you can climb up and down, like the industrial craft scaffold blocks? I like it, but people would immediately switch to the next-easiest-to-make block and use those instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazer777 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 i have a solution roland nerdpole up 5 blocks beside a building then out 5 blocks and u still break zombie ai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 Maybe...put the pathing system could have them go in and up through the building and then break through the wall at my level.... I’ll have to try it out and see. Confirmed: I nerdpoled up five and over five against the side of a house and then spawned in some feral zombies. They did not stand below me confused. They ran into the house and up to the top floor where they broke through a section of roof and then jump up and ran across the roof and dropped down on my perch from above.... scary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamer1337 Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 there will be always the way to bypass zombie ai. we need more distant zombies like cop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingSlayerGM Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 Last night I did a quick test of the old exploit of nerdpoling up five and then over five using frame blocks and....it still works. Seems they were confused by zero pathways possible and didn’t have any task programmed into them to go hit the one stilt keeping me perched since it was offset from my position. They just stood below me. I recorded it and sent it to faatal and he said not to worry. He has that covered but just hasn’t added the “can’t reach player so go destroy nearby blocks” code yet. This sounds very good! Like they are always able to find the fastest way to you! @Roland can you please try with 2 separate drawbridges that lead into your base and you open and close them alternatively. Will the zombies keep going back and forth because as soon as they are near a lowered drawbridge you close it and vice versa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted June 16, 2018 Author Share Posted June 16, 2018 This sounds very good! Like they are always able to find the fastest way to you! @Roland can you please try with 2 separate drawbridges that lead into your base and you open and close them alternatively. Will the zombies keep going back and forth because as soon as they are near a lowered drawbridge you close it and vice versa? This will be a weakness with the system at least for Pathing 1.0 that we will have with A17. No need to go as far as drawbridges. A single square-based tower with ramps on opposite sides and frame blocks connecting the tops of the ramps to the top of your tower will exploit the pathing. If you remove a frame block from one side they will run around to the opposite ramp. Remove a frame block from that side and replace it on the other and they will run back around to the other side. Remove both and they will beat at the walls below you. You could keep them running back and forth all night. The only way this wouldn't happen is if there is some random behaviors thrown in so that they won't always abandon what they're doing to go for the optimal path. If a few remained at the bottom hitting your walls you would have to deal with them which would mean you wouldn't be able to time placing and removing wood frames properly. But faatal has said that adding such randomness to the AI will come later. So, yes. The zombies will 100% abandon their current activity to seek the new optimal path if one opens up and a player could easily exploit that but, the new system is still light years better than the old and there is always the option to NOT do something like that. As kamer said, we will always be able to find ways to game the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morloc Posted June 16, 2018 Share Posted June 16, 2018 ...we will always be able to find ways to game the system. In Russia, system game ~you~!! -Morloc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusrec00 Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Thanks Roland My favorite game by a good distance It is the only game that I have on both Xbox and PC. I can't wait to get my hands on A17 experimental. Thanks for the story Roland, and thanks to the team for such an awesome title and your continued efforts to improve It! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenpaiThatIngnoresYou Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 This will be a weakness with the system at least for Pathing 1.0 that we will have with A17. No need to go as far as drawbridges. A single square-based tower with ramps on opposite sides and frame blocks connecting the tops of the ramps to the top of your tower will exploit the pathing. If you remove a frame block from one side they will run around to the opposite ramp. Remove a frame block from that side and replace it on the other and they will run back around to the other side. Remove both and they will beat at the walls below you. You could keep them running back and forth all night. The only way this wouldn't happen is if there is some random behaviors thrown in so that they won't always abandon what they're doing to go for the optimal path. If a few remained at the bottom hitting your walls you would have to deal with them which would mean you wouldn't be able to time placing and removing wood frames properly. But faatal has said that adding such randomness to the AI will come later. So, yes. The zombies will 100% abandon their current activity to seek the new optimal path if one opens up and a player could easily exploit that but, the new system is still light years better than the old and there is always the option to NOT do something like that. As kamer said, we will always be able to find ways to game the system. So maybe the answer is a random stupid zombie? just have some zombies that have weird behaviors that we will not expect, like just break doors, destroy only wood frame blocks, attack only player placed blocks? if those items are not around then have them attack the player? I mean in a way it is kinda realistic. All the best plans in the world get ruined by some random idiot goofing around, so a random idiot goofball zombie might just be the ingredient of chaos that would thwart our plans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted June 17, 2018 Author Share Posted June 17, 2018 So maybe the answer is a random stupid zombie? just have some zombies that have weird behaviors that we will not expect, like just break doors, destroy only wood frame blocks, attack only player placed blocks? if those items are not around then have them attack the player? I mean in a way it is kinda realistic. All the best plans in the world get ruined by some random idiot goofing around, so a random idiot goofball zombie might just be the ingredient of chaos that would thwart our plans? Yeah, but I'd rather it be that any of the zombies could randomly "go stupid" rather than have specific types. We'll soon learn what the stupid ones look like and be able to plan. Better is to force us to have to adapt during the battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenpaiThatIngnoresYou Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 Yeah, but I'd rather it be that any of the zombies could randomly "go stupid" rather than have specific types. We'll soon learn what the stupid ones look like and be able to plan. Better is to force us to have to adapt during the battle. I had the vision that the stupid zombies would look exactly like the normal zombies, with the same loot and everything, just a slightly different ai package. So a the AI package for stupid/weird zombies would get randomly assigned to any zombie. An example would be a zombie cop that would want to destroy wood frames. So if you line the top of your base with wood frames to make a shoot through walk way, the cop would vomit on those to break them. That sort of thing. It would make wondering hordes interesting, as you would suddenly have zombies in those hordes randomly leave the hordes just to ruin your base. Hell just to troll people they could even make the "run in circles AI" come back as part of the stupid zombies.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted June 17, 2018 Share Posted June 17, 2018 there will be always the way to bypass zombie ai. we need more distant zombies like cop They said that about Chess... Now, the top end computers are unbeatable. Playing human International Grand Masters like they were retarded punks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elionna Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Hell just to troll people they could even make the "run in circles AI" come back as part of the stupid zombies.... Thank you but NO thank you. I hate the running in circle zombies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadianbluebeer Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Thank you but NO thank you. I hate the running in circle zombies. and running in circle bambis and porkies.. dagnabbit dinner, hold still so I can shoot you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyris Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Yeah, but I'd rather it be that any of the zombies could randomly "go stupid" rather than have specific types. We'll soon learn what the stupid ones look like and be able to plan. Better is to force us to have to adapt during the battle. I agree, i'd rather random zombies get selected for the "moron AI" so your always kept on your toes. I think my first game is going to be on nomad diffculty, and I haven't played on Nomad for a LONG time. I am usually playing on the 2nd highest or highest, as I like zombies that are dangerious, and don't die by 1 shot with a qual 25 bow XD. A17 is sounding much like a entirely new game, which is something I am very happy about, as the last few alpha's while good, haven't really completly turned the game on its head and made it massivly diffrent. I got a question though. well 2: 1: does the shotgun have a silencer? and 2: anyway to fix the shotgun spread, I seen the most recent video and that shotgun spread was set WAY to wide. To the point, MM shot a zombie and completly missed at point blank range due to how insanely big the cone was. Shotguns aren't THAT bad for aim. Might be fixed by the time the MM gameplay vid comes out, as the shotgun has been crap since whatever they did to it in A14, and if that cone stays in A17 it's still gonna be pretty bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyris Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 there will be always the way to bypass zombie ai. we need more distant zombies like cop Its just the same reason I dislike pvp base destruction in these games, as any human player can always get by your defenses no matter what you try. Same with the AI, we will always find a way around it, or how to exploit it, but I gotta admit, I can see lots of OH CRAP moments in A17 with the AI being as smart as it now is. 7dtd still gives me the odd jumpscare when a zombie does something unexpected in a16.4 it happens rarely but it does.... Usually involves invisible sleepers that spawn behind me when nothing was there previously. On that note: have they fixed zombies spawning right behind the player? I mean if were moving and nothing was behind us, it shouldn't just magically spawn there right on top of us, would be better if zombie spawning was "hidden" as they spawn behind a tree/building/rock etc then walk out into the open. - - - Updated - - - and running in circle bambis and porkies.. dagnabbit dinner, hold still so I can shoot you. I like it when wolves run in circles sometimes, as damn they hit like trucks and run fast. Its literally saved my butt more than once when one spawned like right on me. Speaking of. I hope they tone down the damage the wolves do, as its set stupidly high. They hit harder than most zombies, including most ferals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyris Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 I also wonder, do zombies in A17 still screech when you wake them up and they are on diffrent floors? I really wish they wouldn't start screaming and making their zombie noises unless they actually can see you. Busting blocks is fine, thats enough noise, but the screeching really grates on my nerves as they do it non-stop if you wake one up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted July 8, 2018 Author Share Posted July 8, 2018 updated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 ... repaired my tool ... /gigglesnort Nice teaser write up! -A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xeen Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 Go team Z! (Faatal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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