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Developer Discussions: Alpha 17


Roland

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17  

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  1. 1. Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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40 meters a second is the fastest voxel game I've seen render (Empyrion) it uses the same engine as 7D2D so I think things can get better.

 

Empyrion seems different than 7 Days. It’s been awhile since Inplayed but digging doesn’t seem to be block by block. It’s more like everything is meshed together and as you dig you bend the mesh. It seemed impossible to make a 1x1 shaft for instance but I admit I didn’t test it thoroughly. There was only the one digging laser tool and it seemed to melt away the terrain keeping everything smooth. Not sure what difference that makes for performance but I’m also not sure if I would like 7Days digging to become like Empyrion digging.

 

But maybe digging isn’t as huge a deal as getting vehicles up to speed...?

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I'm pretty sure Empyrion has less terrain decoration in general and it LODs more aggressively. If you fly a ship over the surface you mostly see bare terrain.

Also far fewer POI littering the landscape.

At most you find a dozen POI in a "zone" (barriers where the game loads the next zone) whereas 7DTD might show you a city with enough POI to fill an Empyrion solar system.

 

Also, there is nothing below the surface. It's a pretty thin layer of homogeneous "dirt" with a few ore objects thrown in.

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Empyrion seems different than 7 Days. It’s been awhile since Inplayed but digging doesn’t seem to be block by block. It’s more like everything is meshed together and as you dig you bend the mesh. It seemed impossible to make a 1x1 shaft for instance but I admit I didn’t test it thoroughly. There was only the one digging laser tool and it seemed to melt away the terrain keeping everything smooth. Not sure what difference that makes for performance but I’m also not sure if I would like 7Days digging to become like Empyrion digging.

 

But maybe digging isn’t as huge a deal as getting vehicles up to speed...?

 

That might be the missing piece.

 

When several large CV's attack a very large planet side system of bases, then lag hell erupts. The CV's are all blocks and so are the bases.

 

But when going full power over a planet, even near the ground in a high powered SV, with just the POI's I don't notice any lag.

 

Edit: So I was thinking, could Empyrion have the ground as one huge block? The ore is only virtually embedded and only appears when the coordinates are exposed. That would explain why worlds have no north or south poles and the green wall is were the mega block east-west touch.. Next upgrade will see a huge size increase in the worlds, so they perfected it, whatever they did.

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If you get bit by a mutated cockroach you may develop the ability to continue functioning without your head... for a while.

 

Different types of infections confirmed for A17, I can roll with that :)

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Empyrion seems different than 7 Days. It’s been awhile since Inplayed but digging doesn’t seem to be block by block. It’s more like everything is meshed together and as you dig you bend the mesh. It seemed impossible to make a 1x1 shaft for instance but I admit I didn’t test it thoroughly. There was only the one digging laser tool and it seemed to melt away the terrain keeping everything smooth. Not sure what difference that makes for performance but I’m also not sure if I would like 7Days digging to become like Empyrion digging.

 

But maybe digging isn’t as huge a deal as getting vehicles up to speed...?

 

What does digging have to do with driving? The point was on loading speeds, not ground shapes.

 

Why do you need a 1x1 shaft anyway? Don't be such a square. :)

You can still use it.

But if you really want one in that game then here's how:

 

1. Dig the shaft

2. Use player placed blocks to shape the shaft into what you want.

 

Underground bases are so cool in this game. Though I normally dig underneath the landing pad for my CV. Great place to store stuff.

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My point was that instead of individual voxels being destroyed piece by piece it was more of a derforming mesh and so less granular which might speed up performance—not as many individual pieces for the engine to keep track of thus speeding up rendering and allowing vehicles to go faster. If it is two or three vast layers like Gazz said or a huge block like Al said then it means a lot fewer computations. Come to think of it the digging in Empyrion does remind me of the way individual terrain blocks deform as you damage them—just on a larger scale.

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My point was that instead of individual voxels being destroyed piece by piece it was more of a derforming mesh and so less granular which might speed up performance—not as many individual pieces for the engine to keep track of thus speeding up rendering and allowing vehicles to go faster. If it is two or three vast layers like Gazz said or a huge block like Al said then it means a lot fewer computations. Come to think of it the digging in Empyrion does remind me of the way individual terrain blocks deform as you damage them—just on a larger scale.

 

Ah. I see. If that's true, then it may be a better way to make a voxel game work.

 

No one is going to see each and every block underground. Unless the dig up each one.

On the other hand, players are going to see all the eye candy like trees, rocks, eta. Plus get better performance due to a merging of said voxels. Finally the ground will look less blocky when dug up.

 

It's amazing just how far we came from the 1980's 2600 Atari.

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I still think instead of boss zombies...which make the game too generic, I would still rather see specialty zombies such as a miner carrying dynamite, a scientist carrying a beaker of fuel, a soldier carrying a rocket..that when killed ...they explode doing damage to spikes and walls of a base. Solves several problems to later game problems with indestructible bases.

Ouch

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So when will Alpha 17 be? Not in January, not in February, when?

 

Strategic thoughts regarding the calendar before reaching a gold status:

 

Based on A16->A17 taking 1 year. Based on 2 more Alphas after A17: A18,A19 taking 2 years.

 

3 more years of Alpha.

 

Beta will be another 1-2 years.

 

So gold looking like 4-5 years, 2022-2023 wish.

 

 

So asking to hurry up A17 or chomping at the bit for A17 is just meh. "It's Done When It's Done"

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Add to those ideas availability during early to late game. Bicycles and minibikes ought to be more commonly available early on. Have a bike shop POI that has whole bikes that can be claimed. Have an uncommon chance for minibikes to spawn in garages and gas stations and a very rare chance for the hog and jeep to spawn that is leveled to more common chances based on player level so that they are more likely to spawn by late game.

 

God that would be so fun, break into a garage and BAM a mini bike!

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Love it

 

Gooodevening all!

 

TBH i never followed 7dtd forums actively. But i must say it's so extremely funny! But the whole discussion about empyrion is that not a 'little' bit OT? Also keep up the sarcasm love it when people love to read that A16 saves are playable on A17:cocksure:

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I still think instead of boss zombies...which make the game too generic, I would still rather see specialty zombies such as a miner carrying dynamite, a scientist carrying a beaker of fuel, a soldier carrying a rocket..that when killed ...they explode doing damage to spikes and walls of a base. Solves several problems to later game problems with indestructible bases.

Ouch

 

Very very good idea

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Faatal

 

Yes, it will be interesting sorting it out. Bicycle could be same speed as minibike, but burn through stamina pretty quick and be slow going up hills.

 

There is also acceleration, braking, sprinting (turbo), traction and damage (hitting stuff) that can vary between vehicles and their mods.

 

@FAATAL correct me if i'm wrong but i remember Joel aka MadMole said that in A17 all vehicle speeds will be reduced. I'm assuming its a work around in order to stop vehicles from falling threw the map.

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One can hope :)

A16 is still a very solid release, that I really enjoy playing :)

 

Wouldn't say its "solid", some serious bugs that are still around that sadly won't be patched til Alpha 17. I hope it isn't as late as August, that is almost a whole year for a major update without any minor ones beforehand.

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Hope this is the right place to post this which developers read.

 

I have a few suggestions:

 

1) Electrical: the ability to be able to connect 2 or more Motion Detectors / switches to one light. Reason: coming into a room such as a kitchen with 2 entrances/exits and have the ability to have a switch at either entrance for the same light.

 

2) The ability to make Double Doors and sliding doors would be great

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Wouldn't say its "solid", some serious bugs that are still around that sadly won't be patched til Alpha 17. I hope it isn't as late as August, that is almost a whole year for a major update without any minor ones beforehand.

 

you say bugs what kinda of bugs? just wondering whee to post them and you may have an idea where to posts these

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@madmole, video please!

 

I'm staring to think that Joel doesnt care on community judging by such relation .

 

I don't understand why he then has told that video content will be leaves more often now .

From the moment of the last video has passed 2 weeks.

 

Or we have to believe that he has told "Im on strike" jokes?

I have brought a large number of people into this game and i mean i interested in this

project and i want to monitor the progress of the game which is not relise.

it isn't necessary to make promises about video updates if u can't do it.

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I'm staring to think that Joel doesnt care on community judging by such relation .

 

I don't understand why he then has told that video content will be leaves more often now .

From the moment of the last video has passed 2 weeks.

 

Or we have to believe that he has told "Im on strike" jokes?

I have brought a large number of people into this game and i mean i interested in this

project and i want to monitor the progress of the game which is not relise.

 

Roland said that Madmole will probably be coming out with a new video soon. He's just been swamped. I truly believe he enjoys making them. He just also enjoys making the game.

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I'm staring to think that Joel doesnt care on community judging by such relation .

 

I don't understand why he then has told that video content will be leaves more often now .

From the moment of the last video has passed 2 weeks.

 

Or we have to believe that he has told "Im on strike" jokes?

I have brought a large number of people into this game and i mean i interested in this

project and i want to monitor the progress of the game which is not relise.

it isn't necessary to make promises about video updates if u can't do it.

 

Let me preface this by saying I am fully aware that what I and others with our interest do is merely a tiny fraction of responsibility and actual WORK that the Pimps and specifically Joel does. Their jobs are 10000x more time consuming, difficult and intricate than anything I can ever hope to come up with.

 

That said, I dont think its fair at all for people to post things such as this without the understanding of what goes into developing and working on a game, even if its a patch, and ALpha or an update. I work a few hours a day on my mod, merely a tiny percentage of the time that Im sure Pimps handle in a day. And even for me, with this being a hobby, it can be overwhelming. Things creep up, squash a bug get another etc and all. Add a new feature, tune 20 others to make it work. There are times I just want to unplug, spend time with the family, get a pizza do ANYTHING other than stare at a computer screen, let alone hop on a Discord and do a Q and A or post previews. There are times I would LOVE to hop on and have a great discussion. I even miss playing the game. I have not been on my own server since December. I miss my community. I miss posting here and debating with you guys and gals, something I have not been able to do since crunch time has come on my mod. But when I sit down at the end of the day for me the choice is take 2 hours and browse the forums and Discord and chat people up or get 2 hours of work done to get this update out for people to enjoy (or hate) I have to always choose to get us closer to a release. And this is coming from a nobody modder. I can only imagine the pressures on the team.

 

Please keep this in mind when demanding videos/dates/previews. The dialogue we engage in here with other team members is pretty solid I feel. If Joel does promise a video he gets slammed for it being a rush job or not looking "professional". If he decides to go for a burger (or a power shake in his case perhaps) and just decides to take a weekend off he gets slammed for it. Can some of us TRY to at least cut him a break? Walk a mile and such. It is NOT easy to focus on one singular thing all week, and then make your weekend revolve around hyping it as well.

 

Pressure cna burnout can hit all of us on the drop of a dime. All of us need time away from our work. Just because you can not SEE what is going on does not mean there isn't sweat being poured into the update. I spent this entire week creating loot lists, balancing biome generation, adding Fallout zones, tweaking POI distribution and balancing buffs. One could look at the progress I made visually and claim I have done nothing all week because I can not take a photo of it (well i could but only Guppy and Tin would probably appreciate it) and preview it for you. That does not mean work isn't being done.

 

TLDR: Don't forget to cuddle you favorite game developer, they are probably pulling their hairs out on intangible but major gameplay changes.

 

PS - Ravenhearst 3.0 will "hopefully" release sometime before the end of February. Dare I use the dreaded word SOON! But I have since learned to love and appreciate that with these things you can NEVER give an actual date. We have had to postpone test server updates last second due to last minute fixes. I completely get it now. Back to the dungeon I go :)

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I'm staring to think that Joel doesnt care on community judging by such relation .

 

I don't understand why he then has told that video content will be leaves more often now .

From the moment of the last video has passed 2 weeks.

 

Or we have to believe that he has told "Im on strike" jokes?

I have brought a large number of people into this game and i mean i interested in this

project and i want to monitor the progress of the game which is not relise.

it isn't necessary to make promises about video updates if u can't do it.

 

The "I'm on strike" was just a joke. Making videos is not Joel's main job and he has been busy at his main job. I talked to him on Friday and he said he would try to get one out this weekend and he typically shoots his videos on Sundays so we can hope it will come tomorrow. But he is only going to show stuff that he feels is ready to be shown.

 

For example, I noticed a really really really really REALLY cool change in A17 during the last test build and suggested strongly that he show THAT because it was so friggin awesome. He said that it might not make it in if they can't get it to work on a network and that it was only working in SP at the moment and was not yet a for sure thing. So if he were to show that in a video and then later have to pull it because of reasons the community would be super disappointed.

 

Believe me, you don't want to know about this if there's a chance it could get cut because D. A. M. N.

 

Better if I'm the only one to be super disappointed later if the worst happens. But I'll make you a deal. We can give it a codename like....oh...."Everdeen" and after A17 comes out if the feature gets cut I'll tell you what it was. ;)

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The "I'm on strike" was just a joke. Making videos is not Joel's main job and he has been busy at his main job. I talked to him on Friday and he said he would try to get one out this weekend and he typically shoots his videos on Sundays so we can hope it will come tomorrow. But he is only going to show stuff that he feels is ready to be shown.

 

For example, I noticed a really really really really REALLY cool change in A17 during the last test build and suggested strongly that he show THAT because it was so friggin awesome. He said that it might not make it in if they can't get it to work on a network and that it was only working in SP at the moment and was not yet a for sure thing. So if he were to show that in a video and then later have to pull it because of reasons the community would be super disappointed.

 

Believe me, you don't want to know about this if there's a chance it could get cut because D. A. M. N.

 

Better if I'm the only one to be super disappointed later if the worst happens. But I'll make you a deal. We can give it a codename like....oh...."Everdeen" and after A17 comes out if the feature gets cut I'll tell you what it was. ;)

 

Roland you tease....lol......hmmm Everdeen.....is that a hunger games reference? Maybe a new battle royale mode that currently only works in sp atm. How did i do? *grin*

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