Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Ayrton]

Fataal, MM, o Ronald some questions

 

1 * It is very difficult to add scorpions in the biomes of deserts?

2 * Is it very difficult for the wasp to return and that we can see it in some biomes? without losing the vulture?

3 * Polar bears and white wolves in snow biome?

[dhlmaster]

Why a Zombi dog in seconds can destroy a steel door?

 

A dog should be able to dig at most in earth or sand.

 

I had a dog when I was a kid that chewed through the steps on our cement patio to get loose from her line that was attached to it.

[Blake_]

Fataal, MM, o Ronald some questions

 

1 * It is very difficult to add scorpions in the biomes of deserts?

2 * Is it very difficult for the wasp to return and that we can see it in some biomes? without losing the vulture?

3 * Polar bears and white wolves in snow biome?

 

Ronald, please

 

1 * Is it very difficult to add barbecue sauce from McRonald's to a Kentucky Fried Ronald combo?

2 * Is it very difficult to jump off a cliff with no rope and then snap out of it and get back?

3 * Global warning and global warming in snow biome?

[69WithAzombie]

Fataal, MM, o Ronald some questions

 

1 * It is very difficult to add scorpions in the biomes of deserts?

2 * Is it very difficult for the wasp to return and that we can see it in some biomes? without losing the vulture?

3 * Polar bears and white wolves in snow biome?

 

 

 

Oh god I beg no more hornets, they were so goofy looking and seemed very out of place!

 

Scorpions sounds cool!

 

But before adding more animals I hope they can add bandits properly and some new zombies with special attacks. I hope ling above a house/building and underground isn't a cake walk with alpha 17!

[Guppycur]

Alot of us did not want digging zombies, BUT, we have them, and they allow for more opportunities than non digging zombies do, so all we have to think about now is balance.

 

So although I had high hopes we would have different underground threats, this is what we have and it's better than nothing.

 

Meh, we will mod in more sensible underground threats if we can. I used a hardstone below the regular stone in medieval to discorage digging, and stompy was working on lava blocks and fire to balance bedrock, and now it sounds like using the new buff system, we can attach aoe buffs to deeper stone to cause asphyxiation, or other natural and more realistic issues to make underground threats more "real", and I'm certain we can disable underground digging in zombies.

 

We Will find a way, and the pimps have done a great job of giving us the ability.

[Seaside]

I don’t see that a game that is ‘that’ realistic would even be a game. If they can’t get through a steel door for instance, you’d just build a reinforced concrete wall house with steel doors, and you’re safe. There’s no danger to that. The only requirement would be to fight your way out to go and loot for food.

 

True but in a real world, could you really build a concrete house while fighting off zombies ? Would you be able to produce the concrete even ? You need to find food while you do all this.

More likely you would find a concrete building to re-enforce any way you can and live in it and you should be pretty safe inside - until you came out to look for food and resources.

This isn't something I suggest for this game but if a more realistic one ever came out.

If you watch any zombie movie people aren't building houses, they are just trying to stay alive and hiding in pre-made houses.

 

Like I say I love this game the way it is but would like to see someone make a zombie game with more realistic restrictions as an alternative someday.

[The Gronk]

<snipped for space>

 

I'm pretty sure there's a mod that does that already.

[FileMachete]

NukemDed, a 'Golf Game' is simply keeping the zombie kill count as low as possible. Self imposed ruleset so you might choose to say turrets are ok. Clearing houses/pois to get to the loot can involve luring zs outside then blocking them out, quick looting then escape out a precut 2nd floor exit. All while not whacking that one z that always seems determined to bash a new hole in the wall while standing right next to an open door Add in some goals that force you to test yourself and you have a suprisingly tough game.

---

Crater Creator, fair point. Don't think I've heard/read, "You won't be able to hide from the Z's anymore anywhere period." so I'll freely admit my trained tendency to view the half empty glass and look for the leak has influenced my interpretation of various vid comments and posts.

(but you gotta admit that one up-side of being a pessimist is that we're rarely disappointed )

---

Meganoth, in a general way I'm not against 99% vs. 100% safe. Would fall into lazdeuce's camp that a 'rational' explanation would be helpful. Something like the current heat & screamer mechanic (which I enjoy) where you have an idea that your actions are leading to an encounter. Though as we've seen it can be difficult to find the balance for these 'slow burn' type things.

 

Anyway, good stuff all around and the civility is truely appreciated

[Xtrakicking]

Why a Zombi dog in seconds can destroy a steel door?

 

A dog should be able to dig at most in earth or sand.

 

Because if zombies couldn't destroy steel doors, the game would be over in a matter of a couple hours.

[Aldranon]

Meh, we will mod in more sensible underground threats if we can. I used a hardstone below the regular stone in medieval to discorage digging, and stompy was working on lava blocks and fire to balance bedrock, and now it sounds like using the new buff system, we can attach aoe buffs to deeper stone to cause asphyxiation, or other natural and more realistic issues to make underground threats more "real", and I'm certain we can disable underground digging in zombies.

 

We Will find a way, and the pimps have done a great job of giving us the ability.

 

HOPEFULLY SOMEONE FROM TFP WILL READ YOUR POST AND DO SOMETHING. OH NO! CAPS LOCK IS STUCK! ... fixed it.

[The Gronk]

Because if zombies couldn't destroy steel doors, the game would be over in a matter of a couple hours.

 

Not necessarily, with the right balancing. If the player couldn't make them without huge expense in time and resources it would make them a rare commodity.

[PurgatoryWolf]

If you want, go and play them.

 

lol you're the one whining about zombies.

[Seaside]

I'm pretty sure there's a mod that does that already.

 

I'll take a look.

 

Thanks !

[PurgatoryWolf]

Is it possible to mod out broken legs? Those things aggravate me more than anything lol.

 

turn on cheat mode,

 

debuff yourplayerid brokenLeg

debuff yourplayerid sprainedLeg

 

to find your player id use the list entities command

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Avoiding zombies

 

All I have to do is dig a hole in the ground.

Jump into it and cover it up.

I could stay down there for as long as my supply's last and not worry about zombies.

 

 

Anybody who says differently is just fooling themselves IMAO.

 

until a17 when the zombies dig!

[JaxTeller718]

HOPEFULLY SOMEONE FROM TFP WILL READ YOUR POST AND DO SOMETHING. OH NO! CAPS LOCK IS STUCK! ... fixed it.

 

Hopefully not. Don't let the shouting masses fool you. They may be loud but their numbers aren't as strong as you hope. I'll take BOTH diggers and lava, but if it is only diggers I'm fine with it. Balance will indeed be the key.

 

On my side of the street my community seems pretty excited for diggers, in spades of course. Not sure where this whole "no one ever wanted diggers" mentality is coming from. Every mechanic has its critics, but there are also a lot of people who miss how they used to be able to dig. Me thinks some people live inside a nice cozy bubble.

 

And so you know it is the arrogant attitude being displayed claiming to having beaten the digger system BEFORE anyone has seen it in action that makes the pro digger crowd excited to see it in action to begin with. Which is kind of hilarious. It has to be either denial or a speck of nervousness over this new mechanic that's got everyone so sure it will be easy peasy to beat.

 

Im sure the fresh salty tear jars are being prepared as we speak.

[0ldman]

I don’t see that a game that is ‘that’ realistic would even be a game. If they can’t get through a steel door for instance, you’d just build a reinforced concrete wall house with steel doors, and you’re safe. There’s no danger to that. The only requirement would be to fight your way out to go and loot for food.

 

Then this would be already very real.

[Cazmyr]

I always like a game where there is not 1 way to do things. In fact I have quit games that force you to do things a certain way.

 

When I came back to 7 Days after a long break I would turn zombies off for the first few days to get a foot hold. Then I thought about leaving them off and just building, as it is a fantastic building game.

 

When I did this I found something. I need the zombies on, from day 1. I need the threat, the rush of fighting, the demand placed on you to make a great base.

 

I also discovered that in my base design. I need to participate in the defense. It is really important for my enjoyment of the game.

 

That is not to say that the other ways are wrong or should not be allowed. To each their own and more power to you if you can make it work.

[konrax]

There has already been a lot of discussion on how to make bunkering a fuller more realistic experience. The conclusion from most people is that it is too easy to live underground, and that it needs to be made more challenging. How exactly has been discussed a lot as well, and I really think after a17 the pimps will have lots of ideas to work with on how to address living underground without making it too tedious. Zombie behaviour is just one aspect of how this can be addressed, and how zombies behave can vary quite a bit depending on the genre of zombies you want to mimic, that being said everyone needs to take a bit of salt on how things are right now.

[Aldranon]

Hopefully not. Don't let the shouting masses fool you. They may be loud but their numbers aren't as strong as you hope. I'll take BOTH diggers and lava, but if it is only diggers I'm fine with it. Balance will indeed be the key.

 

On my side of the street my community seems pretty excited for diggers, in spades of course. Not sure where this whole "no one ever wanted diggers" mentality is coming from. Every mechanic has its critics, but there are also a lot of people who miss how they used to be able to dig. Me thinks some people live inside a nice cozy bubble.

 

Zombie diggers will simply be not effective against a person who thinks a bit about their situation.

 

1) Start by building a tunnel away from your base.

2) On hoard night you just start walking down the tunnel in one direction.

3) After each hoard night, you examine the damage done to the surface (and see if any ores have been reveled).

4) You will know how much mining you can do and when to dig 30 more meters.

 

Its more than A16 anyway, you didn't even care what day it was and just kept the forges going 24/7. So... improvement.

[0ldman]

Food(Groceries) must be simply perishable.

[khzmusik]

Modding questions

 

Hi, my name is Karl. I've been a lurker her for quite some time, but created an account so I could ask about this.

 

As background: I also play State of Decay, and I love the whole "community building" aspect of the game, but I dislike everything else. I would love it if I could make a mod that brought some of those NPC mechanics into 7D2D. Obviously that is not what TFP are after, and I do not expect them to implement this stuff themselves. But it would be nice if they would allow modders to do so, so kindred souls would have a game that satisfied both itches.

 

So, these questions are "asks" about what will be possible in A17 through modding the XML files. Most of this is inspired by Kinyajuu's posts about the new modding system (which looks awesome), so my guess is that he's the one to answer them. If they are not possible now, or on the A17 roadmap, then I'm happy to make these feature requests and move this to the "Pimp Dreams" section of the forum.

 

On to the asks:

 

Ability for CVars, skills, perks or buffs to hook into NPC AI

This is the most fundamental ask, and it would make most of the other asks possible. Examples of how this could be used:

• Rotten meat suit: wearing it grants a buff that makes players less likely to be sensed by zombies (think of that scene in TWD where they smother themselves in zombie guts)
  
• Killing White River NPCs makes bandits less likely to attack you, and White River NPCs more likely (and vice versa)
  
• At higher game levels, NPCs are more likely to run away from you than fight
  
• Weapons (e.g. blow darts) that "drug" animals (or other humans), so they temporarily ragdoll and/or don't attack
  

 

Variable alignment to factions

I would love it if it were possible to have some "degrees" of faction alignment. If faction alignment could be represented by a CVar instead, that would be OK with me.

 

Here are some examples of what modders could do with that:

• Bandit and White River NPCs become less likely to attack you if you have a higher alignment to their faction
  
• Custom trader NPCs grant "hidden stash" items to different factions, based on alignment level
  
• Traders only grant certain quests if you have a sufficient alignment level (e.g. "Go kill some bandits" won't activate if your alignment to "bandits" is high)
  

 

NPC vehicles (or NPCs riding in vehicles)

Mad Max here we come!

 

The ability for NPCs to be containers

So, friendly NPCs can carry stuff for you when your backpack has no more room.

 

The ability to mod in "permadeath," probably through onOtherKilledSelf, onBlockKilledSelf, onSelfKilledSelf

Examples of things I'd like to be able to do:

• Dying makes you lose all skills (but not XP/skill points), so you have to re-spec your character
  
• On death, you have to go through "character customization" screen again (this one is probably a lot to ask)
  
• Custom variables (faction alignment...?) are reset on death. This already seems possible with CVar Actions (if I understand it right).
  

 

Custom traders, with custom quests and rewards

For example, a "cooking" trader gives you a quest to gather eggs, and the reward is some kind of egg-related recipe.

 

These next asks deal with control over random-generated worlds (mainly through biomes.xml and rwgmixer.xml).

 

More control over city generation

Some examples of what I'd like to be able to do:

[*] Specify that cities should be generated next to large bodies of water (like they usually are in the real world)

[*] Cities over a certain size can spawn a "Chinatown" district, next to downtown, with the Asian-inspired custom POIs from compopack

[*] Cities can be "Las Vegas" or "tourist trap" types which include the "unusual" POIs from compopack, like the Sphinx

 

Specify which biomes can spawn next to other biomes

So, for example, deserts can't spawn next to snow biomes.

 

Lastly: Can anyone go into specifics about the POI editor? "POI Editor accessible in main menu" is in feature list, but I can't find any post where it is talked about.

 

Thanks very much, and apologies for the long post.

[Guppycur]

Problem is, if the ONLY threat we have is zombies and their ability to find you and reach you anywhere in the game, then that makes what was once a multi dimensional game into a one dimensional game, and that's a detriment to all, even if a select few can't understand that.

 

Pimps can always code zombies that always find and reach you, teleport to you, dig, fly, whatever, OR, they could include other threats that would add more depth and require varying styles of challenging gameplay, and I personally choose the latter (that's the 2nd one, to the reading challenged).

 

Digging zombies are the path of least resistance and are certainly the obvious solution to a particularly narrow minded way of thinking about zombie games, but I (and others) had high hopes THIS game would live up to its potential and be a true survival game, not JUST a zombie survival game.

 

Luckily, they're including the modability to do that, and for that, I am grateful.

[DaVegaNL]

And here we go. Underground-threats discussion #12? #13? during the development of A17.

 

It's almost as if we're out of topics..

[gav_328t]

Then this would be already very real.

 

A game shouldn’t be that real though. It’s a game. The point of ANY game for me is to turn off real life for a while. If it’s just a grind for food, then why would I bother to play it? I can just do that in real life some more (work, eat, sleep, repeat).

 

A game should be able to capture your imagination. It should make you feel like you want to go loot that POI, like you want to change that wall and build an extra room for storage boxes, like you want to go outside and do something other than hide behind that reinforced wall and steel door until you actually have to go out and get food, just to sit back inside again once you’ve got enough for a few more days. There’s no fun in that.

[SnowDog1942]

Problem is, if the ONLY threat we have is zombies and their ability to find you and reach you anywhere in the game, then that makes what was once a multi dimensional game into a one dimensional game, and that's a detriment to all, even if a select few can't understand that.

 

Pimps can always code zombies that always find and reach you, teleport to you, dig, fly, whatever, OR, they could include other threats that would add more depth and require varying styles of challenging gameplay, and I personally choose the latter (that's the 2nd one, to the reading challenged).

 

Digging zombies are the path of least resistance and are certainly the obvious solution to a particularly narrow minded way of thinking about zombie games, but I (and others) had high hopes THIS game would live up to its potential and be a true survival game, not JUST a zombie survival game.

 

Luckily, they're including the modability to do that, and for that, I am grateful.

 

I am so looking forward to digging zombies rather than gimmicky crap like air quality as some suggestions said. There would be 0 challenge to maintaining oxygen/air qual just busy work or an initial setup.

 

Just because sonething is the "path of least resistance" doesnt mean its not the most fun.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

And here we go. Underground-threats discussion #12? #13? during the development of A17.

 

It's almost as if we're out of topics..

 

We could discuss improved lighting if you want