Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Lufi]

A17 is the cornerstone of this game's future development.

[AaronG85]

Loving all the changes so far and love watching MM play (like a n00b lol). One thing I would "hate" to point out is the amount of people complaining about not knowing when a zombie has died and wanting some kind of indicator but are (probably) the same people that complained about the red health bar. Just goes to prove you can't please everyone and everyone will have an issue regardless.

 

PS I love the idea of not 100% knowing.

[Nastastu]

Can't wait! Actually, I can. Thanks for all the continued hard work.

[lord_ahriman]

Are we gonna get more bones and fat from animals to replace the gore blocks? What about scavenging xp. I like the new stuff but there seem to have been some oversights in the process of performance improvements.

 

 

I was wondering about this as well.

 

 

I don't even care about scavenging xp or loot, I'm worried about bones: gore blocks are the main source and now it's gone. No bones, no glue, no duct tape, no paper etc. Of course we are thinking based on A16 recipes, they could have changed that, so it would be nice any info about that.

[AaronG85]

One small thought I had once I noticed the upgradable backpacks will this feature roll over to other things like how many items we can craft in our backpack/workstations how many items we can forge at one time ect ect. Would love for these to act like the backpack and base them off different skill points.

[Aldranon]

<snip>

 

PS I live the idea of not 100% knowing.

 

You put duct tape over your gas gauge too?

[AaronG85]

You put duct tape over your gas gauge too?

 

Also like to drive on empty to see how many kilometers (miles) I can get lol

[danielspoa]

just finished watching the video. I LOVE it! It's beautiful, I have to agree the trees/shaders add to the atmosphere. I imagine while playing it will feel even better, as the video doesn't do justice to a full hd setting. Zombies not running in circles, thank god. New textures/models? NICE! More attack variations? YES! Optimizations? Something I cannot judge by the video but I hope it goes well! The POI challenges are very welcome as well.

 

Now the controversial part:

 

1 - No gore blocks: I LIKE it, as long as it goes with some polishment. The corpses instantly disappearing felt weird, also worried for the bones. If we can get them in another way, I'm all for it.

 

2 - The loot quantity itself: it shouldn't be a problem. "OH but my 30 person server will run short of materials". Boi, 30 person is already a modded option, if you want to mod some stuff it's ur job to mod others to balance it out. The game won't and shouldn't ever be balanced around a non-vanilla condition.

 

3 - That green club looked weird, I suppose those dies would be nice if masked individually for each weapon. Maybe a low priority task for the future: instead of changing the color of the whole club, make it change some specific parts.

 

4 - I'm fine with the backpack changes.

 

5 - Zombies respawning fast in the POI seemed wrong but I assume it's a bug?

 

Thanks for the video!! Hope we can start playing it soon

[BeeBeeBee]

Video looks good, progress looks fresh, I don't mind the changes regarding missing features because it's just Vanilla rules -- it won't take long to see A17 mods featuring some of the old A16 rules.

 

Weapons are going to be such a riot and I can see major modders TRYING to bring in their own 1-600 strength system to really rile people up LOL

[Pizzalicious]

As long as the bugs are worked out, it def looks like it's a different game. Not happy with the loot system but meh not concerned about it overall. The bag space Ill be going for pretty much right out of the gate.

 

Pizza Pro-Tip #1: Open the doors in the POI first before you enter because of those sleepers.

[Zombiepoptard]

I liked the improved first person animations but are you guys thinking about improving gun animations. I mostly notice that there is no kickback on the recoil of all the guns. You guys may want to tackle that sometime in the future. Gun animations just needs some general work.

[Anric]

Nothing about this update looks fun. All this work over the past year is just one big waste of time. You would have been better off calling Alpha 17 7 Days to Die 2, cause this is now a brand new game. One I would have happily not paid for. I won't be playing this vanilla by a long shot. I will wait until the talented modders reverse, if that is even possible, these changes and do what it seems the actual devs of the game cannot do.

[faatal]

Zombies and water has not changed.

 

The one that caused graphics to break when 2018.2 was used, lwrp made my project turn pink until i remade my shaders.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

Edit: add quoted post

 

We are not using the new render pipelines.

[AaronG85]

Hey @faatal any chance that, like the backpack, we could unlock more space in our backpacks to create items (from 4 to 5) with my OCD the GUI screen always has had space for a 5th section but only ever been 4 and drives me nuts lol.

 

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[CypherTodd]

I am going to reserve all "comments" until it's done and I have played. Love this game and have never been disappointed. Can't wait.

Big thanks the Faatal/Roland, for all your posts, I scroll until I see your handle, then I know it's something I want to read.

[Axe13]

So I don't know if this has been requested yet, and I wouldn't call it a new feature, more of an extension of an existing feature....but can the retrieve all, or collect all button option (whatever it's called) be applied to the inventory of forges, mixers, chem stations and workbenches too? Not sure how many collective hours have been spent pulling crafted items out of multiple inventory slots one at a time, but it would be an appreciated addition to hit R and move on like other loot boxes and such.

 

Also, I like the new additions in A17, and I appreciate the energy and thought put into this game by the devs. Concerns are warranted, but I believe the negativity is not. Cause it's still in the works....and all the other points already made. But I guess it's shows how awesome of a game it is that people get so upset about things. Because they care. I have seen quite a lot of response and real dialogue about the process of crafting and improving this game on this forum and I wish Trion and the devs working on Defiance were more like TFP with listening and communicating to the fan base. But that's a different thing that need not be discussed here.

[Zadwanaa]

Nothing about this update looks fun. All this work over the past year is just one big waste of time. You would have been better off calling Alpha 17 7 Days to Die 2, cause this is now a brand new game. One I would have happily not paid for. I won't be playing this vanilla by a long shot. I will wait until the talented modders reverse, if that is even possible, these changes and do what it seems the actual devs of the game cannot do.

 

I agree.. Unholy joe, look into your crystal ball and watch us, damnit!

 

And Fataal, bro, get to making the game however Anric wanted it. Clearly how A17 looks so far is just terrible. The beautiful lighting & textured walls? Bleh, sticky & removable arrows? ugh! We all just want... whatever it is this guy was smokin

[danielspoa]

So I don't know if this has been requested yet, and I wouldn't call it a new feature, more of an extension of an existing feature....but can the retrieve all, or collect all button option (whatever it's called) be applied to the inventory of forges, mixers, chem stations and workbenches too? Not sure how many collective hours have been spent pulling crafted items out of multiple inventory slots one at a time, but it would be an appreciated addition to hit R and move on like other loot boxes and such.

 

Also, I like the new additions in A17, and I appreciate the energy and thought put into this game by the devs. Concerns are warranted, but I believe the negativity is not. Cause it's still in the works....and all the other points already made. But I guess it's shows how awesome of a game it is that people get so upset about things. Because they care. I have seen quite a lot of response and real dialogue about the process of crafting and improving this game on this forum and I wish Trion and the devs working on Defiance were more like TFP with listening and communicating to the fan base. But that's a different thing that need not be discussed here.

 

u just made me think, maybe a collect all (for arrows in a given corpse) would also be a nice QoL in the future Not sure if possible in this build

[saintones]

I saw a lot to look forward to. I love not having to loot every single thing/body. Great update on the textures and zombie movement. Thanks TFP.

[eidobunny]

I don't think all of the hard work can be shown off in a single in-game day tbh. I'm sure there are a lot of great things to look forward to.

 

That said, the lack of zombie loot seems to have two perks (not having to loot everything, more optimized) but one very significant downfall (...there isn't any loot???)

 

I mean, let's be honest. Most of the reason we kill zombies is for some kind of reward. I've never gone out and killed zombies for exp. I don't sacrifice bullets and wood spikes and huge chunks out of my base walls on 7th nights just for "fun." I do it because the loot and the fat and bones are worth the effort. Now it seems like a better idea to just ride around on a minibike during 7th nights. Not sure if TFP is out of touch or if they have a trick up their sleeves to incentivize fighting zombies and/or hordes.

 

The lead designer for MTG spoke at length about lessons he learned designing the same game for 20 years, and one of those lessons was about a card they released that made a certain creature more powerful if you discarded your cards, except the vast majority of people hated it - not because it was underpowered or overpowered, but because they wanted to... use their cards, not throw them away. The design decision here is relatively parallel. You think you've come up with a good idea in theory because less/no loot on zombies is "optimized" and it "avoids the hassle of looting a million bodies" but you seemed to have overlooked the fact that looting a million bodies was actually... one of the most fun aspects of killing a million zombies.

[Tearstone]

I'm super happy the video dropped. I feel somewhat sated.

 

I have some concerns, like others in regards to farming resources (brass, bones, etc.)

 

I'd like to point out to MadMole that this game doesn't have such a thing as 'useless junk." Virtually *everything* has a use, or can break down into useful materials and components. Some of us quite often get said resources not only from raiding locations but from wiping out zombies. . It's a main source of 'income.' So it's not useless at all.

 

As for zombie drops and gore blocks. Some people complain about cleanup after a horde night, or even a wandering horde. I don't. And it never takes 20 minutes. It takes very little time if you're fast and economical at it. And for me, it's always like Christmas. I never know what I will get, Sometimes it's nothing, sometimes it's something useful, or food. Other times I find something really good. I like playing the 'lottery' with it.

 

I don't mind cleanup either. If I need bones and such, I use an axe. Destroys corpses fast, gives me a moderate amount of bones, fat, and meat. I don't waste time with a knife or machete. If I'm in dire need I will use one of those. If I have no need or desire, I'll use a hammer and just pulverize the block. no meat, bones, or fat. After a certain point two hits, and then one hit will do the job. Bam, next, bam, next, bam, next. So I think this is an issue that people are being nitpicky over. However, the duping problem, I understand why it was changed. (I've never even seen a duping issue in this game.)

 

Regarding the bow: The only issue I've had with the bow is the aim drift. I'm not sure if that's the glitch they're referring to or not. I saw the glitch in the vid, but I've never had that happen to me in any version.

 

I'm loving the improved animation and AI. Originally it was said that sticky arrows would only be in for zombies, which I suppose made sense. The environment is a different animal than zombie models. But I didn't see a reason why it should stay zombies-only. It's nice to see that the devs have environmental impacts for arrows in place. Super happy about that. It's a great visual feedback. I believe that while it wasn't covered in a vid there was silence on recoverable arrows. It's super great that they are in and working. Not flawlessly but working.

 

I will say that this is not only a visual/graphical improvement, but is a major quality of life improvement early game. One thing about A16 vanilla is when you scavenge for feathers from nests, and you only get like 2 or 3 feathers, you run out of arrows nearly instantly. Being able to recover arrows is both realistic, and means that you aren't immediately screwed if you start off being a bad shot. - This also means you can practice.

 

Melee combat looks interesting, however... I feel like the range for melee weapons was shortened to such a range it makes my lungs hurt from laughter. (Not actually laughing.) You nearly have to make out with a zombie to hit them with a power attack, it seems. Or that's just MadMole being super rusty. I seriously hope the ranges weren't shortened.

 

I'm loving the lighting, and the new PoI's, textures, shaders. I know it's not all fixed yet, but it already looks SO MUCH BETTER than A16. I wish MadMole didn't have Depth of Field on so we could look at some of the stuff in the distance with better detail. I love how aged and worn the vehicles look. They looked just like the paint was a few years old. Now they look like they've been sitting in rainforest for about a decade and a half with no TLC. I love the interior wall textures. It doesn't look like just slightly old wallpaper, but.. lik eit's really decaying and going to crap without human upkeep. You see stuff like that in Chernobyl.

 

Weapon dyes - Hell yes! Though I agree with an earlier post, you need to be able to dye portions. Like with a shotgun, dye the stock and forend, as well as etch the receiver and barrel. Put grip tape on clubs, and spraypaint/dye them different stuff. (thats probably a ways off(. It's a great idea though, especially for creating a signature weapon... like Lucille.

 

One thing I noticed with the house with the pig on it, were solar panels already out in the world. I font know if that's a thing in A16 Navezgane. i haven't seen everywhere there, and I didn't really plan to. I play primarily RWG. If you can wrench that to scrounge that it would be great!

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Now, despite my gushing, and my concerns, I have a question for the devs and/or those in the know. This is regarding performance, especialy at night and on horde nights.

 

Texture streaming, texture space, and processing.

 

MadMole mentioned that texture streaming is in, and means that a distant zombie has only a 28k texture vs being in your face with a full sized one now, rather than the entire texture loading when they load up. That's great, and I know that gives a lot more headroom and performance.

 

I gathered from that, that the closer a zombie or other object gets the higher the resolution on the textures become.

 

So my question is this:

 

As they get closer, do they dump the previous texture out of memory and load the next highest resolution, OR does the texture simply get updated with more resolution, becoming more sharp and distinct as it comes?

 

And regardless of either answer, I have a further question.

 

Say a zombie at three hundred meters is 3 pixels high, does that mean they are only a few colors as there s NO way to tell distance but as they load in they take up more space. (Yes, of course.) - How does that play out when I have five zombies around me, one in my face, the others spread out over 15 meters distant, and then thirty more come RUSHING at me. Will the variation in calls for texture loading cause performance stutters as each different zombie calls on different textures as they are dumping in and out of memory.. or does it simply update as they go, creating a sort of smooth incline so there's no noticeable performance hits.

 

I ask because the changing ranges, and thus changing the level of detail on textures and high speed database calls and load times might be a problem. It's fine if they're all distant, or spread out even.. but if they're coming in so it takes more and more for the various textures might be a problem.

 

Long story short, how is texture streaming handled, and what kind of performance hits can we expect when being rushed by large nubmers of zombies spread out over a large distance?

 

 

Sorry for all the rambling. My head is still spinning hours later after watching the vid.

[NukemDed]

thank you roland that was very clear and concise. anyone who doesnt understand that needs to read it again. and again. and again.

and again i commiserate with you that you have to read every post - because i dont :-)

 

thank you Madmole for the video. man you need to practice.

 

i am sooooo looking forward to this!!!

[JaxTeller718]

He's right you know. TFP hasn't meaningfully listened to the playerbase about major issues in a long damn time. We're never consulted about major changes. Makes it hard to believe the folks making the design decisions play the game like the rest of us. Take a poll of the top 10 concerns or feature requests. Take the top 50. I guarantee you that "make zombies not drop loot" wouldn't even be in the top 100.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

I feel highly confident that the answer to that question is "nobody". Though if the question were phrased properly, there's no dearth of "Yes men" ready to affirm any decision.

 

Make zombies not drop loot is in my top 5 and I'm not alone so speak for yourself and stop assuming for everyone. We all have different wants and needs and not all of them will be hit. Thats life. It is THEIR game not yours. Let them create their vision. We can sort it out at a later time because they are GRACIOUS enough to keep the modding possibilities 100 percent open to everyone.

 

That said the only thing I had issue with is the fast respawning sleepers. Way faster than now and now is a bug that needed fixing. But the old quote "In Pimps We Trust" stands tried and true for me. That video was 100 percent breathtaking and exhilarating and I loved every single thing I saw in it.

 

Bring it on guys!

[Survager]

I’ve seen bags. But they are rare. I’d say as of now it’s rarer than before but it might not be final.

 

What about bones? Will we cane harvest (mine) big bone from zombie corpse?

[Roland]

What about bones? Will we cane harvest (mine) big bone from zombie corpse?

 

Zombies can't be harvested. I don't know what they plan to do about bones and flesh. Gazz....?