Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[wmdvanzyl]

Make zombies not drop loot...

 

That said the only thing I had issue with is the fast respawning sleepers. Way faster than now and now is a bug that needed fixing.

 

These were my two concerns with the video. I can get my head around the zombie-loot thing (i understand where they are coming from), but my requirement would be that we can craft everything eventually. Clearly it will take longer to attain certain items and components that we previously harvested, but that's fine as long as everything can be crafted.

 

As far the POI sleeper respawn situation.. .yes, that is probably my biggest concern. It again makes early game harder, which is not what this game needs. We have been asking for more mid/late game challenge, but it just seems easier for TFP to make the initial period longer and harder. Apologies if i am mistaken about that.

 

You saw how Joel had to clear out the same room over and over just to get in and eventually died. Now he respawns at night on the server. His stuff is in that house. Even if he waits for daylight, getting it is very tough. Now consider the PVP aspect. Next morning as he enters the house a level 30 player runs in, shoots him in the face, takes his stuff, clears the house and goes on his merry way. I am not saying that is not acceptable; what i am saying is that that is frustrating. Some people enjoy that frustration. Some don't. Saying we shouldn't play on a PVP server is a tough call, because here in South Africa, almost no servers are PVE. We only have 4 or 5* or so to chose from anyway (*servers that have been active for the last few years). So many times PVP servers are your only choice.

 

I don't mind a challenging POI, but ahve to run out for stones to make more arrows and coming back in to see the game has reset the room is immersion breaking.

[AaronG85]

'Everyone' is worried about looting/bones/fat from zombie gore blocks i'm just annoyed (not really) that I wont be getting my knife skills up as fast

[DaVegaNL]

Zombies disappearing upon death, replaced by a bag? That's obviously what we needed.

 

Looks like sleepers still haven't been fixed, since they will respawn instantly at the same location.

 

Quick opinion poll from my side:

 

Positive:

* The new POI's look awesome

* Retrievable arrows!

* The new 'wellness' system.

* The system where items move back into their assigned slots. That's a real good thing right there.

 

Negative:

* No more loot (or barely any loot) from zombies. I get reducing the amount of loot from zombies, but almost completely scrapping it? Why would one want to fight zombies anymore?

* I'm worried about performance. At some points the video was quite laggy, and I can imagine MM is using a pretty high-end PC.

* Don't think I need to mention the plethora of bugs? Bow, guns, glitches, zombie necks, injurystunnedtooltip

* Colored weapons? Why would anyone want a vomit-green club?

* Not displaying the amount of stamina & HP. This is ridiculous.

[Aldranon]

Nothing about this update looks fun. All this work over the past year is just one big waste of time. You would have been better off calling Alpha 17 7 Days to Die 2, cause this is now a brand new game. One I would have happily not paid for. I won't be playing this vanilla by a long shot. I will wait until the talented modders reverse, if that is even possible, these changes and do what it seems the actual devs of the game cannot do.

 

Something felt less visceral about it, but it might have been the bugs or balancing still needed. We all just need to play A17 ourselves to get a better feel for it, but I hope MM is not the overarching designer of the game if he hasn't played it in a year.

[Tristaris]

Possible chat channels in alpha 17?

 

So I watched the new video posted today... well yesterday I guess now. And I noticed one thing when the chat box was brought up. Global seems to be in brackets. Does this hopefully mean that there will be possible channels? Local, or otherwise? Or is it just there to look pretty :-P. I know there's the party and whatnot. Just wasn't sure if a possible local or more coming with it or not!

 

Definitely a feature I've been hoping to see added in, but I also know you guys have a lot on your plates as is.

 

[NukemDed]

omg

 

e

x

p

e

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i

m

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t

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early access

 

lets have a go!!!!!

[wmdvanzyl]

* No more loot (or barely any loot) from zombies. I get reducing the amount of loot from zombies, but almost completely scrapping it? Why would one want to fight zombies anymore?

 

I find it weird that they married the issues of gore blocks with reducing loot. Was this an issue raised by community? Surely they could have done the same thing with the bags and not reduced loot. I would be ok with some reduction (thinking about it now for the first time), but it seems a bit much from the video.

[KingSlayerGM]

♥♥♥♥ yeah!! Retrieving arrows from bodies is possible!!

[danielspoa]

I don't think the reduced loot is necessarily tied to getting rid of goreblocks, tho I could be wrong. With those loot bags in place I think they could have kept the loot rate if it was the sole reason, I really think they are trying to make it less annoying on something they were already changing (gore blocks -> bags). Probably a simple mod and we have the same as before, but with bags.

 

Now, I think the bone harvesting is a real concern, probably the only thing I'm worried indeed. Curious because I imagine they have something in mind.

 

Also wanted to reinforce what another guy said about the bow bug: I never experienced it. With some people reporting it's common and others reporting never seen it in thousands of hours, could it be related to hardware or some stuff behind the scenes?

[DaVegaNL]

I just feel it's weird that zombies disappear upon death. Or was that caused by too much damage to their corpses? I hope it's the last..

[JaxTeller718]

I find it weird that they married the issues of gore blocks with reducing loot. Was this an issue raised by community? Surely they could have done the same thing with the bags and not reduced loot. I would be ok with some reduction (thinking about it now for the first time), but it seems a bit much from the video.

 

Maybe they want you to focus on scavenging and raiding the new pois rather than farming zombie loot from your base. That would be my best guess as to why they would make that change from a gameplay standpoint.

 

Zombies will probably still give the best amount of XP for levelling so there is your incentive. If you need supplies like glue or tape or ammo then the new way to get those things is by crafting it, or at worst forcing you to go out and experience all the loot you can get by scavenging. I fully support this change, but I know a lot of others won't.

[NukemDed]

im starting to think there are a number of different camps here

those who think how this COULD be vs

those who think how this SHOULD be

 

balancing is nothing. my understanding thats all in the xmls. plus 3 here minus 1 there. big deal. mods will override that day 1 anyway. actually playing it will help balance that. stop freaking.

 

my frame of reference is that tfp are doing their thing increasing the 'could'. the 'should' comes in the mods if you dont like vanilla. or want a different take on the concept. thumbs up the teams behind jax and gup!

 

dont forget the enabling of 'should' is a direct result of empowering the 'should'

[Aldranon]

Now, I think the bone harvesting is a real concern, probably the only thing I'm worried indeed. Curious because I imagine they have something in mind.

 

Without a way of making paper in quantity, shotgun turrets will definitely be pushed back to the "last line of defense" category. Maybe you cant make shotgun shells with paper any more, then the whole thing is moot. Unless glue is needed for something else important.

[DaVegaNL]

So, smaller maps and (practically) no zombie loot? Damn, I hope the new textures on the appliances and blocks are worth it.

[beerfly]

So, smaller maps and (practically) no zombie loot? Damn, I hope the new textures on the appliances and blocks are worth it.

 

Sums up my opinion, but before I say it I prefer we give it a chance, I like changes. Lot of people haven`t try something and already hate it, its in our nature I guess. Pimps never let us down before, they wont in the future.

[sillls]

Loot drops from zombies may be bugged. After watching the last video of Madmole killing a bunch of zombies, not once did I see a loot drop.

 

 

After a hoard night I get lots of loot from kills, even some good stuff. Sometimes finding sixty or so round of 9mm ammo and a hand gun. But that's after perks like scavenging.

 

Did anyone see the bug with the ax? It seemed to clip though the tree every time it was used.

[A Nice Cup of Tea]

It doesn’t for me as a huge reward for killing them is to get something useful. Otherwise might as well just run away.

 

I'm all for this change. I've been saying for a while now that the game is a zombie-survival simulator, not a zombie-killing simulator and you should be avoiding zombies wherever possible and that fighting them should be something you only do in self-defence.

 

So the lack of zombie-dropped loot is a big plus for me. It's one less incentive to go all FPS on them.

 

Now I wonder if I can persuade the devs to remove the xp reward you get for killing zombies...

[Aldranon]

I'm all for this change. I've been saying for a while now that the game is a zombie-survival simulator, not a zombie-killing simulator and you should be avoiding zombies wherever possible and that fighting them should be something you only do in self-defence.

 

So the lack of zombie-dropped loot is a big plus for me. It's one less incentive to go all FPS on them.

 

Now I wonder if I can persuade the devs to remove the xp reward you get for killing zombies...

 

How about remove exp altogether then. You just have a before game design stage where you assign perk points, then play the game to gain skills that you actually use?

 

It would be much more realistic as your character had a life (or did he?). Gaining skills by doing is what people do. Add books to gain a point or two and its done.

[KingSlayerGM]

I love the graphics improvements! Nice job

[Crater Creator]

I think most everything has been said by now for and against the notion that looting lots of corpses or other containers becomes tedious and undesirable. But one method of reducing that tedium could be further deployed: bigger stacks.

 

Finding one steel arrowhead, as Madmole does, is almost useless. It takes up an inventory slot, and you have to queue up crafting the arrows, make a bow, switch ammunition, use it, and then retrieve your one arrow. Better to find 10 steel arrowheads at once. The effort to actually use them would be much more worthwhile. Of course, I'm not looking for more or less loot overall. That cache of 10 steel arrowheads would be found roughly 90% less often, in order to keep the balance.

 

This applies to a lot of things in Alpha 16 and earlier. One nail? I literally can't make anything with that. Enough concrete mix to make two blocks?? A waste of space. But 20 blocks? Now it's an exciting find. Now it starts to affect my decision making, and could affect how the personal narrative of my game unfolds.

 

With zombie loot to be consolidated to backpacks, and loot containers branching into empty and not-empty versions, now would be an excellent time to up the minimum quantities on many loot items. ComSenMod provides good baseline numbers, if anyone's interested.

[Matt 1977]

So far so good.

 

I'll wait till after say day 21 horde to have a opinion on A17.

 

Unlike others that rate 17 on a "1st" look video that was only 45 minutes worth.

 

Unbelievable

[TSRViper]

So far so good.

 

I'll wait till after say day 21 horde to have a opinion on A17.

 

Unlike others that rate 17 on a "1st" look video that was only 45 minutes worth.

 

Unbelievable

 

+1...

[Crater Creator]

There is still a Scavenging skill?

 

I wondered that too. As A Nice Cup of Tea spotted, scavenging will still be a part of the game's progression at least. These changes may affect GuppyCur's favorite bugbear, leveled loot. E.g. if the loot pops out of the zombie in a backpack the instant it dies, I wonder if the makeup of the loot is determined then and there, like a dropped player backpack, or if it becomes like an actual loot container, influenced by the stats of player that opens it.

[Crater Creator]

Boxes [that float on water] - maybe.

 

Air drops actually used to float in an earlier Alpha. I believe it was considered a bug at the time and they were made to sink again. But I felt it was entirely reasonable and better gameplay for them to float the way they did. The alternative often means a dive to the bottom that's painfully slow, literally: you can't survive it unless you max out your athletics skill and/or eat a pile of health packs so as to not drown before you surface. Just swimming out to the coordinates is often arduous enough, so...

 

+1 for floating air drop crates!

[Xrt]

@Kinyajuu

Thanks for the explanation. Is it fair to assume that we still get loot from zombies, just not as often?

Thought that begs the question, how do we get bones and rotting flesh? We can still harvest animals, right?

That should give a few bones, and some meat. Ect.

 

@Roland

Wouldn't it be better to have "MM Gameplay 1/xx", it seems to me that we are not really that close to a public EXP. release yet.

So maybe we can have like a Gameplay Countdown thing going?

 

Something tells me that the Stream Team is not getting access for at least a couple of more weeks.

But that's cool