Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Morloc]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

The butterfly effect may make me change my mind one day and not order my favourite food at my favourite restaurant. But the next time I go there I likely will order my favourite food again.

 

 

Imagine in the future that we develop a procedure (to the point where it's safe and routine) to erase specific memories from our minds.

Someone capitalizes on this and offers a service to erase all memory of specific movies we've seen. The allows us to go see that movie "for the first time" again!

Seeing the fantastic acting and character development all over again, being in awe of the riveting action sequences, and best of all, not knowing the story; the ending!!
Being able to see movies like Aliens, Terminator, Forbidden Planet or LoTR over and over and over with maximum effect!!!

 

The unforeseen danger however is that you might not choose to watch it again!

Even if you wrote out a commitment promise to yourself to rewatch any and all movies you've wiped, your mood, health, age and countless other factors could cause you to say "meh" to what was one of your favorite films! That "meh" would ensure it wouldn't be on your rewatch list anymore, and the only memory you'd have of that film would be mediocre at best.

 

Continue on this path and statistically you'll end up with NOTHING you love anymore. You'll be like some Flying Dutchman critic who is unimpressed with....everything. A fate worse than death! Woe to anyone who might use the process on other aspects of their lives....their first sled ride, their first ice cream cone....their first kiss!


 

"...To live on as we have is to leave behind joy and love and companionship because we know it to be transitory, of the moment. We know it will turn to ash.
Only those whose lives are brief can imagine that love is eternal."

– Lorien

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc 💀

[Matt115]

16 hours ago, Adam the Waster said:

Yeah cuz ASA did so well doing almost this.  This is a way to split your fanbase

At least the spin off it could bring more types of players. Maybe they don't like survival 

If Riamus is right - then possible because a lot of mobile games players don't know 7DTD brand and... mobile games market is diffrent. Pretty is like football vs basketball 

14 hours ago, FramFramson said:

 

A 'gold' label is just a label wouldn't change the amount of hours spent on development in any way though. Neither would it mean development would have stopped. There is literally no mechanical link between the two. Alpha, Beta, they're just words, not magical talismans.

 

As for Minecraft, that has a vastly wider appeal, to kids, families, etc. and a vastly bigger player base. It's also supported by Microsoft, which is why they can get big tie-in deals with like, Lego, or whatever. Zombie horror survival is a specific genre and subgenre, Minecraft on the other hand literally defined voxel games. It's okay to not be as big as Minecraft and it's also okay to not have the same kind of outside stuff as Minecraft does.

 

And not to be rude, but... who cares about tie-ins? I just want the game itself to work.

Would change : gold then probably story mode last updates ( fixing bugs, optimalisation etc.) then project is finished. No problems.

It wasn't supported for long time. Plus people are not happy about  this MS 'ownership" and changed that they made. It's like now 7DTD was "takover" by Ubisoft or dunno Capcome then it will be developed still like Minecraft which is... terrible - sometimes it's important to just end. Ps - much smaller game called  " i was teenage exocolnist" get own plushies so.... TFP makind deal with let's say Cobi would be possible.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

What wouldn't change is their long list of planned features (where they for example could have seen they wanted this and that part of 7D2D to get an overhaul, this and that to be added). And their tastes, which largely differ from yours. So sure, anything is possible, but what is the most likely? That it generally goes in the direction of their current tastes in gaming or that they suddenly turn into copies of you?

 

The butterfly effect may make me change my mind one day and not order my favourite food at my favourite restaurant. But the next time I go there I likely will order my favourite food again.

 

If they would say " Okay we are going to develop though 4-5 years then another project" then... yeah it would change planned features. Why? because it need time "Okay guys we didn't manage to overhauls skills but production is too long just left it how it's because there need new project to be started". Many games had scapped features, ideas or " not the best" systems just because lack of time. Just how it's release game move forward. 

 

I don't they should left unfinished game. Just cut plans compare to production time, make it stable and that's all.

 

Well - but which tastes? from one hand you have fortnite and call of duty. From other? Manor lords or Blight.

And is another + for me in that situation : let's say - 5 years development , 1 resting 5 years of development , 1 year of rest. 5 years etc. 

So : 7dtd 1 finished in 2018, another game finished in 2024 : so i have chances  that 7dtd 2 will be more like i want. then another game. Then 7dtd 3 

So 2 possible options. while now... there is almost not chances for 7dtd 2. TFP is humans not Activision - TFP devs are going to get old and TFP will be closed after let's say next 10-15 so no chances for another 7dtd unless they will sells it to bigger company. But Acvisions? Many people came and go while Cod is still released every year.

 

If you one day not order you fav food but instead you bought something new you could eat it 15 minutes longer. so you will be driving 1 mph faster. Which will cause flat tire because of small stone that was thrown on road by kid 5. So... You were late to work and be fired. but thanks to that you met nice girl  - competly diffrent life.

Trust me - small change like choose diffrent pair of shoes can totaly change your life in way that you will never know

[faatal]

14 hours ago, Roland said:

Can you tell us plainly whether any more biomes may be added in? Don't feel like you need to catch a plane to tell us in person as that would be plain overkill. Just curious on whether the plane of the game will ever intersect with the line of any other past RWG features again.  

Don't think plains are happening.

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Morloc said:

 

 

Imagine in the future that we develop a procedure (to the point where it's safe and routine) to erase specific memories from our minds.

Someone capitalizes on this and offers a service to erase all memory of specific movies we've seen. The allows us to go see that movie "for the first time" again!

Seeing the fantastic acting and character development all over again, being in awe of the riveting action sequences, and best of all, not knowing the story; the ending!!
Being able to see movies like Aliens, Terminator, Forbidden Planet or LoTR over and over and over with maximum effect!!!

 

The unforeseen danger however is that you might not choose to watch it again!

Even if you wrote out a commitment promise to yourself to rewatch any and all movies you've wiped, your mood, health, age and countless other factors could cause you to say "meh" to what was one of your favorite films! That "meh" would ensure it wouldn't be on your rewatch list anymore, and the only memory you'd have of that film would be mediocre at best.

 

Continue on this path and statistically you'll end up with NOTHING you love anymore. You'll be like some Flying Dutchman critic who is unimpressed with....everything. A fate worse than death! Woe to anyone who might use the process on other aspects of their lives....their first sled ride, their first ice cream cone....their first kiss!


 

"...To live on as we have is to leave behind joy and love and companionship because we know it to be transitory, of the moment. We know it will turn to ash.
Only those whose lives are brief can imagine that love is eternal."

– Lorien

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc 💀

 

 

Even worse:

You are defined by your previous experiences, they form your character. So by deleting your memory you are changing yourself to someone else. In a narrow sense you have erased yourself.

And even if you choose to rewatch it you can't gain what you lost because you do not watch it in the same frame of mind as before. You cannot recreate the impressions, the awe or what you learned by rewatching it at a different time of your live. As an extreme example you might have learned much from watching an episode of sesame street when you were 4 years old, but it would not change and impress you now at all. 

 

 

Edited February 15 by meganoth (see edit history)

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Matt115 said:

If they would say " Okay we are going to develop though 4-5 years then another project" then... yeah it would change planned features.

 

Sure, but that is not the most likely outcome. Because A16 did not have everything kickstarter expected and not the quality they themselves expected from the game. If they were fed up with the game and wanted a change they would have pulled the plug from the current development already.

 

 

2 hours ago, Matt115 said:

If you one day not order you fav food but instead you bought something new you could eat it 15 minutes longer. so you will be driving 1 mph faster. Which will cause flat tire because of small stone that was thrown on road by kid 5. So... You were late to work and be fired. but thanks to that you met nice girl  - competly diffrent life.

Trust me - small change like choose diffrent pair of shoes can totaly change your life in way that you will never know

 

Exactly. That could have happened. But in about 99.9% of all restaurant visits this does NOT happen before, it is the exceptional, very improbable event.

 

You can dream of anything happening if you want, but when you are making **predictions** of an alternate history you should list the probably ones, not the pimp dreams of what could be in lala-land if your wet dreams come true.

 

 

 

[Arma Rex]

2 hours ago, Matt115 said:

If Riamus is right - then possible because a lot of mobile games players don't know 7DTD brand and... mobile games market is diffrent. Pretty is like football vs basketball 

Would change : gold then probably story mode last updates ( fixing bugs, optimalisation etc.) then project is finished. No problems.

It wasn't supported for long time. Plus people are not happy about  this MS 'ownership" and changed that they made. It's like now 7DTD was "takover" by Ubisoft or dunno Capcome then it will be developed still like Minecraft which is... terrible - sometimes it's important to just end. Ps - much smaller game called  " i was teenage exocolnist" get own plushies so.... TFP makind deal with let's say Cobi would be possible.

 

 

 

If they would say " Okay we are going to develop though 4-5 years then another project" then... yeah it would change planned features. Why? because it need time "Okay guys we didn't manage to overhauls skills but production is too long just left it how it's because there need new project to be started". Many games had scapped features, ideas or " not the best" systems just because lack of time. Just how it's release game move forward. 

 

I don't they should left unfinished game. Just cut plans compare to production time, make it stable and that's all.

 

Well - but which tastes? from one hand you have fortnite and call of duty. From other? Manor lords or Blight.

And is another + for me in that situation : let's say - 5 years development , 1 resting 5 years of development , 1 year of rest. 5 years etc. 

So : 7dtd 1 finished in 2018, another game finished in 2024 : so i have chances  that 7dtd 2 will be more like i want. then another game. Then 7dtd 3 

So 2 possible options. while now... there is almost not chances for 7dtd 2. TFP is humans not Activision - TFP devs are going to get old and TFP will be closed after let's say next 10-15 so no chances for another 7dtd unless they will sells it to bigger company. But Acvisions? Many people came and go while Cod is still released every year.

 

If you one day not order you fav food but instead you bought something new you could eat it 15 minutes longer. so you will be driving 1 mph faster. Which will cause flat tire because of small stone that was thrown on road by kid 5. So... You were late to work and be fired. but thanks to that you met nice girl  - competly diffrent life.

Trust me - small change like choose diffrent pair of shoes can totaly change your life in way that you will never know

I feel like we've had this same exact discussion before months ago with you comparing 7DTD to other games, or trying to force your understanding of what the game is on others.

53 minutes ago, faatal said:

Don't think plains are happening.

Bummer, it fit perfectly within the Arizona landscape, wish it made a comeback.

[Roland]

1 hour ago, faatal said:

Don't think plains are happening.

*reads the response plaintively. 

[Javabean867]

16 hours ago, faatal said:

RWG uses tiles for many things. Biome tiles were 1024 squares. Now 256.

I added the burnt forest back to RWG today. Seems to be generating correctly now after a few bug fixes.

I've missed Burnt Forest so much!  I was worried that it was going th way of the dodo

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

Sure, but that is not the most likely outcome. Because A16 did not have everything kickstarter expected and not the quality they themselves expected from the game. If they were fed up with the game and wanted a change they would have pulled the plug from the current development already.

 

Yep then they could just fast add in A17 what left easy to made( bandits was pretty finished ) then add rest ( Zombie nomad mode - well i think almost nobody remember about that but... well kickstarter so have to be added) for gold . Because rest of stuff from kickstarter list was already implemented during A16 period.

 

 Using "quality" as argument is two side sword - what was totaly accetable in 2013 wasn't in 2018 while stuff from 2018 is not in 2024. You know - nobody would complain about for example 7dtd graphic when in 2018 Granny was released. But - now you have Unshrounded. You know as longer you make a thing - no matter if it's a game, gun, car or building  it more outdated it became as longer you work on that. I think if now 7DTD 2 was made on similiar too Holistic engine - then you have destructible world without "blocks" . How could let's say building work? like in Valheim probably which in 2013 was impossible - after all 7dtd was looking like Minecraft during that times. So imagine how wonderful would be 7dtd but with valheim building when you can put few things in this same place not "blocks". Yet it will be possible just for 7dtd 2 which will be... Dunno in 2035 i guess?

 

1 hour ago, Arma Rex said:

I feel like we've had this same exact discussion before months ago with you comparing 7DTD to other games, or trying to force your understanding of what the game is on others.

Bummer, it fit perfectly within the Arizona landscape, wish it made a comeback.

Well - 7dtd is pretty like car like BMW E46. So people like X in that car some people don't. Most people agree about something with this car while rest not etc. yet still there is nothing much new to say

Edited February 15 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[FramFramson]

18 hours ago, faatal said:

RWG uses tiles for many things. Biome tiles were 1024 squares. Now 256.

I added the burnt forest back to RWG today. Seems to be generating correctly now after a few bug fixes.

 

Holy! Excellent news!

As for plains, I think that honestly modders could add plains simply as an alternate version of forest with way less trees. Maybe add 1-2 new tall grass blocks. But climate, environmental effects, fauna, and general game danger is so similar to forest it's hard to have it as a distinct biome, unless you're doing tons of sub-biomes the way Minecraft does.

 

Swamp/jungle, now that's a new biome we could genuinely use.

 

And we need a better transition zone between biome air. Flying along the border of wasteland or desert and forest is so goofy at times.

[zztong]

18 hours ago, faatal said:

RWG uses tiles for many things. Biome tiles were 1024 squares. Now 256.

 

Ah, thanks. I guess that gives you more biome tiles to reach the desired percentages requested by the user and as a result the biomes on a map might not be as obviously blocky.

 

18 hours ago, faatal said:

I added the burnt forest back to RWG today. Seems to be generating correctly now after a few bug fixes.

 

Oh, that's excellent. I missed the burnt forest enough that I made a small one manually on a custom Gateway Tile. There had been a few times I'd painted that biome back onto a map in a world's biomes file just to have it around.

 

Something that just occurred to me to ask is that if Stamps in modlets were going to be supported again? I have a couple of stamps in my modlet and they don't seem to get used in A21. The feature worked for a couple of different types of stamps in A20, though other types threw exceptions.

Edited February 15 by zztong (see edit history)

[User]

Dumb question; since it's come to light that the burnt forest is returning, why were the burnt forest & plains biomes removed initially? I like both of them. I'm very happy that the burnt forest is returning. Sort of curious why they were removed since I think they added a lot of variety & depth to the world. I wasn't playing the game much or reading the patch notes at the time, so I don't know. Thank you!

 

 

Edited February 15 by User (see edit history)

[beerfly]

22 minutes ago, User said:

Dumb question; since it's come to light that the burnt forest is returning, why were the burnt forest & plains biomes removed initially? I like both of them. I'm very happy that the burnt forest is returning. Sort of curious why they were removed since I think they added a lot of variety & depth to the world. I wasn't playing the game much or reading the patch notes at the time, so I don't know. Thank you!

 

 

There was some sort of optimisation in the world of 7 days to die, I guess it was for good back then, but having it back is a really good present. I love the burnt zombies.

[HB_H4wk]

Zombie Deer with flesh dangling from the antlers.

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Yep then they could just fast add in A17 what left easy to made( bandits was pretty finished ) then add rest ( Zombie nomad mode - well i think almost nobody remember about that but... well kickstarter so have to be added) for gold . Because rest of stuff from kickstarter list was already implemented during A16 period.

 

Where do you get the info that bandits were "pretty finished" at any time in the game? You said they were practically finished in lbd times aka a15/a16, and now you say in A17 they were even more aka "pretty finished"? But where are they? TFP hired an additional programmer specifically for the AI and now 4 more years of working at least partly on bandits have gone by and A22 is still without them.

Sure, TFP could have just dropped all work and just put out whatever they got on hands and called it finished. But they didn't and there is no indication that they would have viewed those old zombies in bandit skins as finished, except if they got into severe money problems or they needed to finish for some external reason. 

 

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Using "quality" as argument is two side sword - what was totaly accetable in 2013 wasn't in 2018 while stuff from 2018 is not in 2024. You know - nobody would complain about for example 7dtd graphic when in 2018 Granny was released. But - now you have Unshrounded. You know as longer you make a thing - no matter if it's a game, gun, car or building  it more outdated it became as longer you work on that. I think if now 7DTD 2 was made on similiar too Holistic engine - then you have destructible world without "blocks" . How could let's say building work? like in Valheim probably which in 2013 was impossible - after all 7dtd was looking like Minecraft during that times. So imagine how wonderful would be 7dtd but with valheim building when you can put few things in this same place not "blocks". Yet it will be possible just for 7dtd 2 which will be... Dunno in 2035 i guess?

 

Personally I don't like Valheims building system. The system is much more constrained and only good if you want to build something nice looking. I am playing 7d2d because I want to make functional buildings that are traps to zombies, I want to construct complicated mazes, not shiny lookalikes of the same boring hut.

 

Valheim has no tower defense gameplay. It doesn't need such a complex building system. 7D2D has tower defense and would be a lesser game with a valheim building system.

 

 

[XCOUNTRY]

5 hours ago, Roland said:

*reads the response plaintively. 

Rats, thought you had Everdeen’d us a plain plain hint for A23.

[Adam the Waster]

6 hours ago, Roland said:

*reads the response plaintively. 

This is Plain out sad to hear 

 

 

Hope they plain on changing their mind... plain

[khzmusik]

18 hours ago, VoltraLux said:

 

It was discussed by Robert, he'd discussed that he created it for level designers to force spawn their latest builds, but would be coming to A22+. It's mentioned during the fourth dev diary stream at 8.40

 

Edit: Ah it may be something XML related only and already implemented in some capacity, though not included in the RWG gen screen as I wrongly assumed it may have been.

 

Maybe you're thinking of "ThemeTags"? That was added this alpha, and it is used in RWG, but nothing is exposed in the UI.

[Dark_Shadow_231]

Any indication as to why the burnt forest is being returned, they only just retired it?

Not opposed just curious why its happening.

[Morloc]

13 hours ago, Adam the Waster said:

This is Plain out sad to hear 

 

Why is everyone being a plain in the butt? Please describe the plans for the Plains as plainly as possible.

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc 💀

[Matt115]

13 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Where do you get the info that bandits were "pretty finished" at any time in the game? You said they were practically finished in lbd times aka a15/a16, and now you say in A17 they were even more aka "pretty finished"? But where are they? TFP hired an additional programmer specifically for the AI and now 4 more years of working at least partly on bandits have gone by and A22 is still without them.

Sure, TFP could have just dropped all work and just put out whatever they got on hands and called it finished. But they didn't and there is no indication that they would have viewed those old zombies in bandit skins as finished, except if they got into severe money problems or they needed to finish for some external reason. 

 

 

Few post ago you said: " If bandits were included they would be rather disappointing zombies in bandit skins (just like they were in a few mods that had enabled them)". 

Am i right? So... this is good enough. Because... what do you expect? it's not simulator like Arma or closed linear FPS like fear 1. How human AI works in let's say CoD mw3  zombie mode ? just stand or hide behind cover an eventualy make few steps and that's all. And it's good enough. Okay before you say "but cod mw3 zombie mode was release during last year" then is another game which can serve as example - Bordelands . What enemy doing there?  If melee charge at you, if range just sit on ass and shoot while "shield" just walk at you and shoot. And it's good enough. So where would be a challenge? simple - bandits use weapons so higher damange + range hitscans for guns + using armors so can stand more or force to use armor piercing weapons. It would be enough.  

Well do you know why bolt rifle guns won with lever action guns? cheaper, easier to make, easier to fix, less thing to be broken. So -  7dtd is not hardcore game but casual like cod mw3 zombies or bordelands so you don't need hyper advanced AI - just put them into strongholds and design them in style of older FPS - matter not AI but what type and position start fight.

 

In 2013 didn't exist "life service games" as "usable" idea. So looking on kickstarter - they assumed what will be added depends on number of money. So it's logical that they assummed that " we have X number of money so we can make game Y period of time" like every other company do - well i remember many games from that period was release pretty unfinished {like Sillent hill) because of lack of time (which mean money too). So compare with situation with other games - in 2013 would be totaly logical that they assumed "specific" time of production not make it for years. 

 

13 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Personally I don't like Valheims building system. The system is much more constrained and only good if you want to build something nice looking. I am playing 7d2d because I want to make functional buildings that are traps to zombies, I want to construct complicated mazes, not shiny lookalikes of the same boring hut.

 

Valheim has no tower defense gameplay. It doesn't need such a complex building system. 7D2D has tower defense and would be a lesser game with a valheim building system.

 

Well  Valheim have tower defence gameplay and even... pretty complexed th : Events | Valheim Wiki | Fandom

What is diffrent? In valheim you need high tier food - so you need animals, farms etc. so make defence is neccesary - enemies targeting domestic animals xd some of them like trolls can be challenge if you are hungry.  But i think we both can agree that this: Comfort | Valheim Wiki | Fandom in 7dtd would works realy good.

 

I don't like maze ideas - i have ww1 mentality : base is just bunker with basic defence outside agains single infectred  🤣

 

for blood moons I prefere to use high POI as defences - no problem with birds, limited patches a lot of high quality blocks so don't need a lot of materials 

[zztong]

56 minutes ago, Morloc said:

Why is everyone being a plain in the butt? Please describe the plans for the Plains as plainly as possible.

 

My understanding is... The rains in game will fall mainly on the plains.

[XCOUNTRY]

If there was an airport poi, a plain plane model on the plain would just plainly look cool. 

[Adam the Waster]

59 minutes ago, XCOUNTRY said:

If there was an airport poi, a plain plane model on the plain would just plainly look cool. 

That would be plain out awesome. I would love too see a crashed plane on the plains. 

 

But my question would be? Were would they plain on putting the plains be on navezgane. Not on parishton anymore and I like the snow city better, it looked really plain, Maybe the plain would be to put the plains in a new zone, with a small plain town

.. maybe it could be called, plainston  that would be plain out cool..... plains

Edited February 16 by Adam the Waster (see edit history)

[doughphunghus]

13 minutes ago, Adam the Waster said:

That would be plain out awesome. I would love too see a crashed plane on the plains. 

 

But my question would be? Were would they plain on putting the plains be on navezgane. Not on parishton anymore and I like the snow city better, it looked really plain, Maybe the plain would be to put the plains in a new zone, with a small plain town

.. maybe it could be called, plainston  that would be plain out cool..... plains

Fun fact: plainston is already in the game. You can usually see it way out  in the horizon. It looks like a lot of concrete pads and roads but no buildings. It can be plainly seen, especially on lower end graphics cards. Given this, plainston being in the plains, the plains biome is therefore already in the game. Its plain as day. Plainly so, and a plain in the a$$ to "play-in" on it up close as it always slips away as you cross the plane to get to it. As plaintiful as it is in the game, it will always be plainfully out of reach.