Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Jost Amman]

After these repeated plain puns I must say I'm now deeply ashamed at being part of this community... please everyone, stop!  

[Arma Rex]

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

 

Few post ago you said: " If bandits were included they would be rather disappointing zombies in bandit skins (just like they were in a few mods that had enabled them)". 

Am i right? So... this is good enough.

This invalidates any supposed criticism you had against the development of 7DTD if you honestly think that. No one in their right mind wants bandit AI that's the equivalent of the zombie soldiers in the original Doom, especially in 2024.

[Adam the Waster]

33 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

After these repeated plain puns I must say I'm now deeply ashamed at being part of this community... please everyone, stop!  

You plain out make me sad

[meganoth]

4 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Few post ago you said: " If bandits were included they would be rather disappointing zombies in bandit skins (just like they were in a few mods that had enabled them)". 

Am i right? So... this is good enough. Because... what do you expect?

 

As I have said multiple times, it is about what TFP (and maybe many players of the game) expected from bandits. Your theory is based on not only TFP rushing the release date but also that their ideas about the game (level of quality) change with it. As I said, everything is possible. But some is still very unlikely.

 

4 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Well  Valheim have tower defence gameplay and even... pretty complexed th : Events | Valheim Wiki | Fandom

 

Remember I play Valheim as well, I know how lame those events are really. You just put walls around your base and thats it. There are no tower defense elements, there are no traps. Just being attacked does not make a game into a tower defense game.

What you talk about is a shooter with a defensive mode. Whether you call that tower defense or not, there is a lot more in 7days.

 

4 hours ago, Matt115 said:

But i think we both can agree that this: Comfort | Valheim Wiki | Fandom in 7dtd would works realy good.

 

Funny you say that: I absolutely HATE this constant need to check food and resting status, missing one of the timers is almost a sure way to get killed. I can get along fine with the survival light mode of 7daystodie, you really have to ignore the warning icons for a long time before it really becomes a problem. 

 

4 hours ago, Matt115 said:

I don't like maze ideas - i have ww1 mentality : base is just bunker with basic defence outside agains single infectred  🤣

 

Tower defense is one of the important genres in this genre mix and one reason I am playing this game for so long. It won't go away, thankfully.

 

 

 

Edited February 16 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Matt115]

39 minutes ago, Arma Rex said:

This invalidates any supposed criticism you had against the development of 7DTD if you honestly think that. No one in their right mind wants bandit AI that's the equivalent of the zombie soldiers in the original Doom, especially in 2024.

Well Og doom had pretty good Ai - do you know that demons could fight each other if there was friendly fire?

I mean more like return to the castle wolfenstein . I stopped playing Bordelands 3 few minutes ago. And you know what? Such simple AI is nothing wrong

 

30 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

As I have said multiple times, it is about what TFP (and maybe many players of the game) expected from bandits. Your theory is based on not only TFP rushing the release date but also that their ideas about the game (level of quality) change with it. As I said, everything is possible. But some is still very unlikely.

 

 

Well... we know they are working on them and they were not happy about it. nothing more specific. So i think you will have AI like in Bordelands. Why? because it's the most realistic option for such type of game

 

31 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Remember I play Valheim as well, I know how lame those events are really. You just put walls around your base and thats it. There are no tower defense elements, there are no traps. Just being attacked does not make a game into a tower defense game.

What you talk about is a shooter with a defensive mode. Whether you call that tower defense or not, there is a lot more in 7days.

 

There exist traps : Trap | Valheim Wiki | Fandom  , Ballista | Valheim Wiki | Fandom.  

Put wall won't help you against flying enemies or mini bosses. diffrence is that zombies just attack everything in 7dtd while in Valheim focus more on players and tamed animals. 

Another plus of Valheim - you don't know when will be such event. in 7dtd you know - so you can just walk away to POI as hospital easy defence it while your base is totaly safe

 

31 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Funny you say that: I absolutely HATE this constant need to check food and resting status, missing one of the timers is almost a sure way to get killed. I can get along fine with the survival light mode of 7daystodie, you really have to ignore the warning icons for a long time before it really becomes a problem

Well - for me point of survive is just that things : food + drink + shelter and how to protect it. Well this is at least for me good thing - if  you have enough crops to get good food, drink water you want and base comfy like 5 star hotel it's mean you not only survive but life

 

31 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Tower defense is one of the important genres in this genre mix and one reason I am playing this game for so long. It won't go away, thankfully.

 

I don't saying "REMOVEE TOWER DEFENCE !!!!!1ONEONE"  

I'm saying that Mazes are pretty unrealistic 

[faatal]

6 hours ago, Dark_Shadow_231 said:

Any indication as to why the burnt forest is being returned, they only just retired it?

Not opposed just curious why its happening.

Because some of us like it and as it was never removed from xml and still in Navezgane it was decided to just keep it and if we keep it, then RWG should use it.

[Spuder]

49 minutes ago, faatal said:

Because some of us like it and as it was never removed from xml and still in Navezgane it was decided to just keep it and if we keep it, then RWG should use it.

 

On 2/13/2024 at 9:45 PM, faatal said:

Not planned for A22, but would be nice someday. I did remake the biome filler stamp today to go with the new biome gen algorithm.

These are my recent RWG changes:

Added RWG preview camera moves 10x speed with shift key and clamps near ground.
Changed RWG preview camera move up/down to camera relative and C key also moves down.
Added RWG preview left click resets camera.
Fixed RWG preview camera jittering when looking past down and move rate varying with FPS.
Improved RWG Creation UI layout.

Added RWG highways can path across and carve into mountains (steep slope check often made no road!).
Added RWG country road corner smoothing (50% of highway).
Improved RWG road smoothing, blending and processing speed.
Fixed RWG road pixel precision (was offset and dirt edges not consistent).
Fixed RWG road line segments adjusting the same and/or missing pixels (starting point circles now in line segment loop. uses ids not colors).
Changed RWG preview texture to full res at default and point filter.
New RWG biome generation algorithm (seed biomes around a circle and grow each in a square ring that searches out from the middle of each side but skips if not adjacent to same biome).
Moved RWG wasteland biome to the center.
Improved RWG biome default percents and limited min/max range.
Improved RWG biome filler stamp (more square, to edges and 128 size).
Fixed RWG biomes could be missing (each biome gets at least 1 tile).

Changed RWG biome tiles to 1/4 sized.
Added RWG random biome stamp scaling and small rotations.

 

49 minutes ago, faatal said:

Because some of us like it and as it was never removed from xml and still in Navezgane it was decided to just keep it and if we keep it, then RWG should use it.

 

Super excited Burnt Forest is coming back, as that used to be my favorite Biome!!!

 

What was the reason for moving Wasteland to the center? I'm assuming since it's the final Biome as far as progression?

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

I'm saying that Mazes are pretty unrealistic

 

I am sooo shocked to hear that 😁

 

 

EDIT: I am always astonished how much you dislike about this game. It is as if someone watched The seven Samurai and said "nice movie. I like the sword fights. But Kurosawa should have set it in the far future, it would need more humor and laser swords and princesses and a struggle between an imperium and rebels".

 

Edited February 16 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Jost Amman]

1 hour ago, Spuder said:

What was the reason for moving Wasteland to the center? I'm assuming since it's the final Biome as far as progression?

Probably is a nod to older versions when we still had the "Hub City", which was basically a wasteland city and was always at the center of the map.

Just an educated guess, I don't know the official reason for the change.

[Riamus]

Maybe the wasteland being in the center is for the planned story, though I would think this should be optional in RWG.

[faatal]

3 hours ago, Spuder said:

What was the reason for moving Wasteland to the center? I'm assuming since it's the final Biome as far as progression?

Someone suggested it and it can work with progression. I could do forest in the center with a few changes and that would work for progression too. It could end up as an option.

[khzmusik]

21 minutes ago, faatal said:

Someone suggested it and it can work with progression. I could do forest in the center with a few changes and that would work for progression too. It could end up as an option.

 

Since we're talking about RWG, are there any plans to specify that a specific POI has to spawn in specific biomes (or conversely, can't spawn in certain biomes)? That was in the game a couple alphas ago, and there were hints of bringing it back, but it hasn't made it in thus far.

[Adam the Waster]

1 hour ago, faatal said:

 It could end up as an option.

Think that would be best 

 

Maybe a few settings like random, center, would be nice

[faatal]

2 hours ago, khzmusik said:

Since we're talking about RWG, are there any plans to specify that a specific POI has to spawn in specific biomes (or conversely, can't spawn in certain biomes)? That was in the game a couple alphas ago, and there were hints of bringing it back, but it hasn't made it in thus far.

That would be nice. We talked about it the other day, but I have not looked at it yet. The spawn percents also need testing for accuracy/correctness.

[FranticDan]

Any chance of the Plains biome coming back?
And what about brand new biomes, like a Swamp/Marsh?

[faatal]

1 hour ago, FranticDan said:

Any chance of the Plains biome coming back?
And what about brand new biomes, like a Swamp/Marsh?

Maybe someday, but not for A22.

[FramFramson]

One really good setting to be able to add to RWG would be a "Must have at least one of every POI" checkbox.

[zztong]

7 hours ago, FramFramson said:

One really good setting to be able to add to RWG would be a "Must have at least one of every POI" checkbox.

 

You basically get that if you don't skew POI bias and weight in rwgmixer.xml, though it really comes down to which Tiles are selected and how many POIs of what size and district fit onto those Tiles. You can have POIs that can only land on a certain Tile, and if that Tile only gets selected once, then RWG might face an overabundance of choices for a few spots. That's normally rare -- RWG usually faces a shortage of unique POIs -- and have to use duplicate POIs.

 

That's for POIs. I'm not aware of bias/weight or an attempt to "level" the placement when it comes to (Settlement) Tiles. RWG appears to just pick randomly from among the Tiles that meet its immediate need -- "I need a Country Town Corner" -- and this works for Vanilla because they only tend to ship 1 Tile of each type (there are a couple of exceptions). But when you throw in a modlet that adds a bunch of Tiles, you see the randomization sometimes go heavy on a specific Tile and doesn't actively attempt to include each Tile at least once in the world. And, of course, it doesn't need each Tile type in the same amounts. For instance, it doesn't usually need the Downtown Cap tile, so if that's the source of the only 100x100 Downtown POI marker, then POIs of that size may not show up.

 

12 hours ago, khzmusik said:

Since we're talking about RWG, are there any plans to specify that a specific POI has to spawn in specific biomes (or conversely, can't spawn in certain biomes)? That was in the game a couple alphas ago, and there were hints of bringing it back, but it hasn't made it in thus far.

 

That would be handy. Like the weight/bias settings, you'd want to go easy on restricting most of the POIs or you'll probably start to end up with empty lots in settlements. That is, save the setting for a few POIs if you're dealing with Vanilla numbers of POIs, but if you get up into the CompoPack numbers of POIs then you can be a bit more liberal with that kind of feature and not get empty spots.

 

A feature that would be handy for some worlds, and overhauls, would be the ability to mark a POI as a "Story POI" or "Unique POI" such that it only got placed once, ever. Again, you can't go crazy with that setting or you'll end up with empty spots on a map. But if you did that with a few (say max 5) POIs it would work out great, assuming that a supporting Tile got used. -- That's the complication. If a POI is required, then a supporting Tile for it is required. How does RWG figure that out?

[Matt115]

19 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

I am sooo shocked to hear that 😁

 

 

EDIT: I am always astonished how much you dislike about this game. It is as if someone watched The seven Samurai and said "nice movie. I like the sword fights. But Kurosawa should have set it in the far future, it would need more humor and laser swords and princesses and a struggle between an imperium and rebels".

 

There are things that are unrealistic in good way and bad way. i will give total war in example

 

Fact that everyone in unit have this same weaponry is unrealistic but is good - it would be terrible if in 90 people unit 30 have spears , 20 sword , 10 maces ,10 bows, 10 crossbow rest another weaponry. So unrealistic in good way.

But if you use fact how AI target units so you can lure 5 heavy spears units to chase your one cavalery unit is unrealistic in bad way. Like a legendoftotalwar side "some battles looks like impossible because to win you need to use holes in AI while such decision would be totaly stupid from realistic point of view.

So such Mazes are pretty just this " use  archer shields to broke patchfining" from total war

 

 

Do you know that shoes Martens? it started as brand of cheap but solid working shoes. Now it's another premium brand for "stylish guys". But... because of that hard to get cheap and good working shoes

Mc donald years ago - cheap but stable fastfood perfect if go drive somewhere and want eat cheap. Now? "premium and exapensive". So hard to find cheap alternative. 

7DTD started like "serious" alternative to Minecraft : like dunno - lego star wars vs fear 1. So I'm not like this guy who wanted to change zombies into spiders (interesting how many people remembed that).

 

I just remember good times when we had smaller updates like : " new guns and zombies" yeah there sometimes was big change like totaly change of crafting (ah this minecraft crafting period). Just after added hornet i started to feel if devs don't want to make game "goofy" yet it was cuted so i get back hopes it will be like classic zombie game aesthetic.  So.. to be honest not i'm one who want change seven samurai into sw but devs done that.  You know older armors were pretty " okay could be even suitable for Tomb Rider" while now we are going to have "fallout like"

 

Another thing is fact.... i start feel old. Previously we get mostly new stuff While now we have mostly reworks which take year to make. And how to say.... I remember talk with my friend that we are going to play with my friend when 7dtd will be finished ( too bad optimalisation for his pc to play stable), since that time i manage to get master degree while game is still is going to get another rework. 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 17 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[Adam the Waster]

11 hours ago, faatal said:

Maybe someday, but not for A22.

So your telling me.... there's a chance 

 

 

But I doubt it cuz we are so close to gold I don't think it would be added. I hope so tho

Edited February 17 by Adam the Waster (see edit history)

[cmills]

13 hours ago, FranticDan said:

Any chance of the Plains biome coming back?

I mean, you could just set the biome slider for plains to 100% lol. IDK If its worth the time to design and code in its very own biome though..

 

14 hours ago, faatal said:

That would be nice. We talked about it the other day, but I have not looked at it yet. The spawn percents also need testing for accuracy/correctness.

I feel like re-implementing this would be great for further implementing a progression system. There could be a larger skew of tier 4/5 POI's in the wasteland or unique ones that fit the environment and offer something special.

It would also be pretty cool way to improve world building design, like having a ski lodge/plow truck POI in the snow biome, or roofless style restaurants/wrecked dune buggy POI's in the desert biome, etc. 

Edited February 17 by cmills (see edit history)

[Roland]

12 minutes ago, cmills said:

I mean, you could just set the biome slider for plains to 100% lol. IDK If its worth the time to design and code in its very own biome though..

That’s not for the biome. It’s for the flatness of the terrain. 100% plains would be flat forest, desert, snow, wasteland, and burnt forest biomes

[cmills]

1 minute ago, Roland said:

That’s not for the biome. It’s for the flatness of the terrain. 100% plains would be flat forest, desert, snow, wasteland, and burnt forest biomes

Yea I meant terrain slider, just misworded it. My point is that a new biome only differentiated by terrain doesn't seem as impactful as something like a swamp one, which would definitely be pretty sweet.

[Adam the Waster]

1 hour ago, cmills said:

I mean, you could just set the biome slider for plains to 100% lol. IDK If its worth the time to design and code in its very own biome though..

I mean if they did it once they could do it again, just forest with less trees, or small trees, yellowish grass, rocks, and wild corn

 

It could be a half skull rank like the burnt forest. Then again I think it should be rethought 

 

Forest 1, plains 1/half, burnt forest 2, desert 2/half, snow 3, wasteland 4

 

 

Edited February 17 by Adam the Waster (see edit history)

[Jost Amman]

1 hour ago, cmills said:

Yea I meant terrain slider, just misworded it. My point is that a new biome only differentiated by terrain doesn't seem as impactful as something like a swamp one, which would definitely be pretty sweet.

You missed the point probably because you're a "new" player?

In old alphas we had more biomes variety with specific features you don't have with the current ones.

 

The plains biome was like what you can see in this video:

Spoiler