Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Adam the Waster]

17 minutes ago, Arma Rex said:

Dude, what? 7DTD was NEVER like COD. The gunplay was pretty bare in the beginning, and has evolved a little since then.

 

I don't doubt that art style in games can degrade, but you're bringing up non sequiturs left and right by talking about COD and other zombie games, not a substantial reason as to how 7DTD has changed.

 

Plus, we're talking about an unfinished early access game that has little to no story yet, it's natural that things will change.

The game changed/overhauled at least 3 times in terms of graphics and theme

 

We went from PlayStation 1 and almost everything looking like plastic and genetic 

 

Too a super dark, gritty and ugly game with aspects of the PlayStation 1 version and not really a set tone 

 

Too a pretty decent looking game with a set theme they are going for a much more goofy simi-serous Apocalypse, were people wear buckets as helmets, guns made of trash and makeshift parts, and goofy places like the boobie trap, sushi chest, Poopie pants daycare! OHREALLY AUTO PARTS! Should i go on. 

 

Not even going to set aside the unrealistic thing like, why are their tones of wolfs in the US still, zombies even existing, radiation making things glow, power still being on! You know why? Cuz it's a game. 

 

Not every survival game needs to be DAYz level of realistic and I don't want that. Is there stuff that would improve the game to Make it harder? Oh yeah and I'm sure they will add it.. Hopefully 

 

*Cough* overlord armor *cough*

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Adam the Waster (see edit history)

[Roland]

What I take away from Matt115's posts is gratitude that such details don't bother me and I can enjoy the game without such issues causing mayhem with my brain. In those rare moments that I do notice such things I just laugh and enjoy the weirdness.

 

1 minute ago, zztong said:

 

Oh, my bad. I didn't realize it was set in the past. I thought it was set in the future, honestly. I could have sworn they've talked about it being in the future.

 

I believe the game is set in 2034 AD of whatever Earth it is in the multiverse.

[zztong]

12 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

But that was the whole point of my post: I don't care about these kind of details, since I can still get a general impression from the game that doesn't break my immersion.

 

2 minutes ago, Roland said:

What I take away from Matt115's posts is gratitude that such details don't bother me and I can enjoy the game without such issues causing mayhem with my brain. In those rare moments that I do notice such things I just laugh and enjoy the weirdness.

 

My apologies if I'm late to detect the theme. I can certainly agree the spirit of the game is best enjoyed by trying to enjoy the weirdness and inconsistencies.

[FramFramson]

20 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Nice one smartass, your line would be funny, except for the fact that the game it's already set mostly in the late 90's, based on other tech you can see.

There are inconsistencies there too, honestly, like flat screens on the walls, but at the same time, you see a lot of furniture which is clearly outdated now.

 

It's goten better however, compared to previous versions, since they could finally introduce custom made stuff, more coherent with the general "tech level" the want to convey.

 

But that was the whole point of my post: I don't care about these kind of details, since I can still get a general impression from the game that doesn't break my immersion.

 

The in-game calendar you sometimes see on shop or office walls literally shows a year in the 2030's

 

EDIT: 2034, as Roland pointed out.

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by FramFramson (see edit history)

[FramFramson]

The things, there IS room for a fair bit of weirdness. If you look at major wars, things can get pretty gritty and odd in just a couple years. Bandits wearing crazy crap to look scary seems fine to me, people building crazy vehicles out of leftovers seems fine to me. But not EVERYONE ends up like that is the thing.

 

If the game can't decide if it's 7 Days After or Mad Max, that's fine, as long as the same applies to the players, by which I mean there should be some options for crazy and some options for normal. The outfits seem to match this philosophy somewhat, but as long there's still "regular" clothes in the game, then there absolutely will be a mix of looks on players (and hopefully NPCs - look at the traders, they're all wearing fairly "normal" clothes.), by the same token, one hopes there might be a few raider/ganger zombies mixed in with the ones we're used to. Some cringing civilians entirely in normal clothes would be a neat addition too, but I get that we won't see that anytime soon (hey TFP, rescue/escort missions, please?)

 

The same goes for the cars. It's not weird that there are crazy cobbled-together cars, it's bizarre that the wrecked ones all look normal and the running ones all look weird (or will after the update). But in this case I'm assuming only mods will solve this issue, where a player might want to drive around in a sweet regular car and not a monster truck or a toilet on wheels. The demand for this is self-evident, as vehicle mods have been one of the most popular mod types for years. More importantly, they already seems to follow the "mostly normal, but with some weird stuff" aesthetic. The same is true for weapon mods - what's popular among players is generally (but not exclusively) mods which add existing real-world guns. POIs tend to be normal locations, and not crazy castles or wasteland forts. The game doesn't exist in a dataless vacuum we just argue about theoretically; we can see what people create and download.

 

Oh and the "goofy" shop names like "The Booby Trap"? Okay first off TFP are just having some fun - I wouldn't read too much into that. And second, geez, if you think that's weird, you clearly have never driven through like, upstate PA, or rural TN, or any number other places IRL with small towns that seem to consist of a rest stop, porno store (even in the 2020's!) and billboard ads for private investigators. Small-town USA is flippin' STRANGE man - Florida man is in fact everywhere. Hell, I used to live down the street from pizza place called "Meatsauce Pizza - You'll love our meatsauce on your pizza!"

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by FramFramson (see edit history)

[beerfly]

aaaand now the weather report and the sport`s news right after..

 

Lets move on guys. 

[Guppycur]

On 9/17/2023 at 11:55 AM, Roland said:

Some people truly love cringy goofy looks. Back when TFP had no limits on their character creation parameters there were characters created by players that were way goofier, cringier, and weirder than the nerd outfit. 
 

 

Hey.  

[Syphon583]

22 hours ago, Matt115 said:

< sign> no.  Some things are proper or not. Is Vanguard proper? nope, it's terrible mistake and many agree about that. Is WaW reliable? yeah. I can do make large analise why 7DTD is inconsistent as hell if you want

Style consistency and quality are two different things, Matt.

 

I will reiterate. You clearly don't agree with the art direction TFP have taken with this game. We get it. That's fine. You don't have to like it. However, simply because someone (like yourself) does not like the art direction, that does not equate to the quality of the design. Your original statement was "this design is objectively bad". What you are stating is opinion which is, by its very nature, subjective.

 

Myself and plenty of other players think these designs look great. Those are subjective opinions. If it really bugs you that much, you should probably consider finding/making a mod to "correct" what you think is bad design or play a different game. TFP are building a game they want to play.

 

22 hours ago, Matt115 said:

I can do make large analise why 7DTD is inconsistent as hell if you want

Please, by all means, write us an essay/treatise/dissertation on the subject.

 

(for the love of all that is good and holy in this world, don't actually do this. It's called sarcasm)

Edited September 19, 2023 by Syphon583 (see edit history)

[SnowDog1942]

On 9/18/2023 at 12:43 PM, Matt115 said:

analise 

Edited September 19, 2023 by SnowDog1942 (see edit history)

[Riamus]

21 hours ago, zztong said:

 

And you're right, where are the mobile phones? 

The zombies all have them to coordinate for horde night.  😁

[Matt115]

22 hours ago, Arma Rex said:

Dude, what? 7DTD was NEVER like COD. The gunplay was pretty bare in the beginning, and has evolved a little since then.

 

I don't doubt that art style in games can degrade, but you're bringing up non sequiturs left and right by talking about COD and other zombie games, not a substantial reason as to how 7DTD has changed.

 

Plus, we're talking about an unfinished early access game that has little to no story yet, it's natural that things will change.

Did i said gameplay? No. 7DTD is similiar about art style degrade. 

 COD on release : realitisc stuff

cod after 6 seasons : Anime characters , Cats, Santa Clause and Footballers 

 

7DTD during early alphas : Similiar with art style to contagion, nmrih and rest of horror games from this period.

7DTD now : mad max with zombies.

 

21 hours ago, FramFramson said:

The things, there IS room for a fair bit of weirdness. If you look at major wars, things can get pretty gritty and odd in just a couple years. Bandits wearing crazy crap to look scary seems fine to me, people building crazy vehicles out of leftovers seems fine to me. But not EVERYONE ends up like that is the thing.

 

If the game can't decide if it's 7 Days After or Mad Max, that's fine, as long as the same applies to the players, by which I mean there should be some options for crazy and some options for normal. The outfits seem to match this philosophy somewhat, but as long there's still "regular" clothes in the game, then there absolutely will be a mix of looks on players (and hopefully NPCs - look at the traders, they're all wearing fairly "normal" clothes.), by the same token, one hopes there might be a few raider/ganger zombies mixed in with the ones we're used to. Some cringing civilians entirely in normal clothes would be a neat addition too, but I get that we won't see that anytime soon (hey TFP, rescue/escort missions, please?)

 

The same goes for the cars. It's not weird that there are crazy cobbled-together cars, it's bizarre that the wrecked ones all look normal and the running ones all look weird (or will after the update). But in this case I'm assuming only mods will solve this issue, where a player might want to drive around in a sweet regular car and not a monster truck or a toilet on wheels. The demand for this is self-evident, as vehicle mods have been one of the most popular mod types for years. More importantly, they already seems to follow the "mostly normal, but with some weird stuff" aesthetic. The same is true for weapon mods - what's popular among players is generally (but not exclusively) mods which add existing real-world guns. POIs tend to be normal locations, and not crazy castles or wasteland forts. The game doesn't exist in a dataless vacuum we just argue about theoretically; we can see what people create and download.

 

Oh and the "goofy" shop names like "The Booby Trap"? Okay first off TFP are just having some fun - I wouldn't read too much into that. And second, geez, if you think that's weird, you clearly have never driven through like, upstate PA, or rural TN, or any number other places IRL with small towns that seem to consist of a rest stop, porno store (even in the 2020's!) and billboard ads for private investigators. Small-town USA is flippin' STRANGE man - Florida man is in fact everywhere. Hell, I used to live down the street from pizza place called "Meatsauce Pizza - You'll love our meatsauce on your pizza!"

 

 

Cars are diffrent thing that clothes. It's hard to get cars or  repair them. Plus reused civilian vehicles have sense - technical so i agree about that

 

2 hours ago, Syphon583 said:

Style consistency and quality are two different things, Matt.

 

I will reiterate. You clearly don't agree with the art direction TFP have taken with this game. We get it. That's fine. You don't have to like it. However, simply because someone (like yourself) does not like the art direction, that does not equate to the quality of the design. Your original statement was "this design is objectively bad". What you are stating is opinion which is, by its very nature, subjective.

 

Myself and plenty of other players think these designs look great. Those are subjective opinions. If it really bugs you that much, you should probably consider finding/making a mod to "correct" what you think is bad design or play a different game. TFP are building a game they want to play.

 

Please, by all means, write us an essay/treatise/dissertation on the subject.

 

(for the love of all that is good and holy in this world, don't actually do this. It's called sarcasm)

If it's not consistent then it's become bad quality - Night of the dead is good example what i mean. check this game on steam

 

I don't agree from simple reason. When i was buying it was like Contagion, nmrih2, fear, state of decay about artstyle: That's why i'm @%$# off on cod too because i bought "reliable " style game then after few seasons changed into Fortnite ( i don't mind to put naruto, witcher star wars etc into Fortnite because it's just cartoon " multiversemadness" yet in cod this is just bad). Ofc some people can like Cats on cod or 7dtd's became mad max but... i spend money on quasi realistic shooter and on classic zombie game. So i have right to complain and say i feel cheated. I don't want to see cat skins in cod, i don't want anime character etc. this same i just wanted 7dtd too KEEP ( not change) orginal style which was similiar to this games

 

[Jost Amman]

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

COD on release : realitisc stuff

cod after 6 seasons : Anime characters , Cats, Santa Clause and Footballers 

 

7DTD during early alphas : Similiar with art style to contagion, nmrih and rest of horror games from this period.

7DTD now : mad max with zombies.

The underlined part is the BIG difference.

The early alphas were mostly Unity assets, while now they're replacing everything with their own.

 

Like it or not, the game has not "changed": it was never meant to be like the early alphas.

[Matt115]

3 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

The underlined part is the BIG difference.

The early alphas were mostly Unity assets, while now they're replacing everything with their own.

 

Like it or not, the game has not "changed": it was never meant to be like the early alphas.

I'm not developer  so how i could know in 2013- 2014 it's Unity assets? If they shows stuff thats was looking pretty sutiable ( this same style of graphic ) enough that looks like "specific vision". I saw  screens and trailers  which works  like "Hey guys this is our vision on our game" . Not " hey this is game how looks now but we can change by 180 if we change our mind ". After all Terraria, looks pretty similiar like during Ea , this same MC, call to arms, battle brothers etc. 

[Adam the Waster]

We should instead start chanting for the Alpha 22 Dev Diary!

 

 

Oh and overlord armor

[Syphon583]

8 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

I'm not developer  so how i could know in 2013- 2014 it's Unity assets? If they shows stuff thats was looking pretty sutiable ( this same style of graphic ) enough that looks like "specific vision". I saw  screens and trailers  which works  like "Hey guys this is our vision on our game" . Not " hey this is game how looks now but we can change by 180 if we change our mind ".

So you're basing your opinion on your false assumptions, then. Like or not, now that the game is getting closer to gold, TFP are investing time and resources into defining the style that they want. If that style in inconsistent with past alphas, you're just going to have to deal with it.

[Arma Rex]

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

i just wanted 7dtd too KEEP ( not change) orginal style which was similiar to this games

This is never going to happen, sorry. The developers have hired an art team with their viewpoint guided by the rest of TFP. Your insistence on a past art style is no different than the parts of the community that want Learn By Doing integrated into the RPG system again.

 

I still see no major issues with the current art style, but I can understand some of the criticism levied against the armor designs. All in all, it's fruitless to complain about it, and even more so to proclaim that your opinion is objective truth.

[Riamus]

Until the game is released out of early access, you have to accept that the game, including art style, will change.  If you don't like that, you have the option to play older versions of the game or not buy early access games until the are released as gold so you know if they will be what you want.  Everyone has their preference for certain parts of the game that have changed and are no longer what they want.  That's what you have to accept from playing early access games.  Complaining that an early access game changes didn't really make much sense.  And in any case, it is all just opinion and your opinions about the game and someone else's opinions about the game aren't going to match exactly and perhaps not at all.  That doesn't make anyone wrong in their opinions, but they are still only opinions and not objective fact.

[FranticDan]

Just wanted to point out that the permadeath setting in A21.2 doesn't clear the kill count and death count back to zero

[Blake_]

6 hours ago, FranticDan said:

Just wanted to point out that the permadeath setting in A21.2 doesn't clear the kill count and death count back to zero

Yeah, there seems to be quite a bunch o little details to sort through for that particular option.

 

I do like the previous one though, maintaining debuffs and a hit to health and hunger? , sweet.

 

Take that, glass eaters !

[Adam the Waster]

6 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

 

Take that, glass eaters !

I still love that metallic taste! 

 

 alpha 22 dev diary!

And overlord armor

[faatal]

On 9/6/2023 at 3:11 PM, meganoth said:

But that's the thing, the game has no motorcycle crashing and you flying off animation (or does it? At least it surely isn't implemented yet). So you are glued to the motorcycle no matter what you do and the wobbling is maybe the equivalent of you getting thrown off. The important question then would be whether you get "thrown off" too easy. Or if it would be more fun to really be thrown off instead of wobbling?

Unity's wheel colliders are fairly basic. They are not a racing game simulator.

 

Two wheeled Unity vehicles fall right over as soon as you turn. The wobbling is simply vehicle balancing forces keeping you upright otherwise you would be laying on your side most of the time.

 

Unity vehicles in general would be upside down or on their side a fair bit of the time if not for the side and front/back forces pushing the vehicle upright.

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, faatal said:

Unity's wheel colliders are fairly basic. They are not a racing game simulator.

 

Two wheeled Unity vehicles fall right over as soon as you turn. The wobbling is simply vehicle balancing forces keeping you upright otherwise you would be laying on your side most of the time.

 

Unity vehicles in general would be upside down or on their side a fair bit of the time if not for the side and front/back forces pushing the vehicle upright.

The explanation helps.  But perhaps there is a way to reduce that wobble so it doesn't do it many times in a row?  Once back and forth wouldn't look as bad.

[Necromundi]

9 hours ago, faatal said:

Unity's wheel colliders are fairly basic. They are not a racing game simulator.

 

Two wheeled Unity vehicles fall right over as soon as you turn. The wobbling is simply vehicle balancing forces keeping you upright otherwise you would be laying on your side most of the time.

 

Unity vehicles in general would be upside down or on their side a fair bit of the time if not for the side and front/back forces pushing the vehicle upright.

Speaking of Unity, what are TFP's plans with regard to the changes Unity have recently announced, I guessing it's a bit late to switch the game engine now! 

[meganoth]

15 hours ago, faatal said:

Unity's wheel colliders are fairly basic. They are not a racing game simulator.

 

Two wheeled Unity vehicles fall right over as soon as you turn. The wobbling is simply vehicle balancing forces keeping you upright otherwise you would be laying on your side most of the time.

 

Unity vehicles in general would be upside down or on their side a fair bit of the time if not for the side and front/back forces pushing the vehicle upright.

 

It occured to me right now that I may have misunderstood the "wobbling" all the time discussing about it. I thought it was about the vehicle breaking out and driving sinuous or wiggly lines (words I got from a dictionary). I.e. in those cases I often have to stop the vehicle and it would come to halt in a totally different direction to where I had been driving.

 

The wobbling you and maybe all the others were talking about is just some unnutural quivering of the bike.  @FramFramson @Riamus@Kalex et.al.: Have I misinterpreted you here?

 

Edited September 21, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Riamus]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

It occured to me right now that I may have misunderstood the "wobbling" all the time discussing about it. I thought it was about the vehicle breaking out and driving sinuous or wiggly lines (words I got from a dictionary). I.e. in those cases I often have to stop the vehicle and it would come to halt in a totally different direction to where I had been driving.

 

The wobbling you and maybe all the others were talking about is just some unnutural quivering of the bike.  @FramFramson @Riamus@Kalex et.al.: Have I misinterpreted you here?

 

There are 2 things that happen.

 

1) When you start sliding side to side - this is where the vehicle starts aiming different directions and can sometimes spin 180.  That isn't really what's been being discussed, though it was mentioned.  

 

2) When a 2-wheel vehicle (this happens most notably to the motorcycle and less to minibike and not enough to even note on the bicycle) wobbles side to side - this is where the vehicle is still aiming in the same direction but where it is leaning first to one side then the other and back and forth repeatedly.  With the motorcycle, this can happen 3-4 times back and forth to each side before it stops if you keep driving and don't turn anymore.