It is too hard, it limits new players

[ungkor]

For those of us that have been playing this game for years, we know what is "coming up" and we can plan for it accordingly. 

 

I feel like any new players are basically going to hate this game. 

 

But even if you are a experienced player, alpha 20 seems like a a build that is designed to just frustrate people.   I'm on day 15, I have a 9mm pistol with a mod, a pipe shotgun, and a pipe machine gun.   I have a few pieces of a armor. 

 

I start a "fix the generators quest".    I roll up in my bike, and I see a bear in the distance.   I shoot it the face with 2 clips of 9mm and it kills me.  Ok, great.  Maybe I missed a lot.  

 

I start the mission at 22:00 to start the generators, and am swarmed by, I am not kidding, 15 zeds, in the first 'trick room'.  

 

How the @%$# are you supposed to fight off 15 zombies at night with a 9mm and a few pipe guns?

 

There were years where 7d2d was my go to 'have a bit of fun' each night game.  I don't know that the intention is for this game, or where the devs want it to go, but for me right now, it just doesn't feel fun.  

 

Please bring the fun back.   

[PoloPoPo]

7D2D has always been challenging for new players and with A20 it might got even more challenging, I agree.

 

But I completely disagree that a challenge will automatically lead to frustration. For me a challenge in a video game equals fun. And player numbers, game ratings etc. indicate that much more players agree with me there. Typical playerbase of a "horde crafting survival loot eat and drink" game is expecting a challenge. Survival has to be a challenge!

 

I don't want to question your skill but as someone who has played this game for years you should know how to approach a bear (hint: not with a 9 mm pistol face to face) and you should know several tactics to defend against 15+ Zs at night. And if you don't then you have learned something new and now there is your challenge of finding a solution to those threats. I'd say this is fun and not frustrating. If your frustration tolerance isn't the best you could always change game difficulty for an easier playthrough as well.

 

Not denying the fact that even with thousands of hours worth of experience you can always get caught off-guard by a bear and die. But again, this is what keeps this game exciting and fun to me again.

[Darklegend222]

You should never face a bear face to face, hop on a roof top, go back into the building your quest is and avoid it, perhaps you can even kite it through your quest poi and create places it can't get to you.

 

It all adds to the challenge. As for the 15+ zombies, close doors their faces to reload, then open the door and let a zombie or 2 in, close the door and kill the ones in the room with you. Don't be afraid to run away if you absolutely have to. Zombies gave god awful vision at night. You can get about 15-20 blocks away and they might even lose you.

 

I'd recommend having multiple pipe weapons on your hotbar that way you have something else to resort to. Even if it's 3 pipe shotguns it's useful. As the other person said it adds to the challenge. You know now that zombies will come for you while your doing the generator. Use that information to build yourself an escape route should things fall out of order.

 

Your not incorrect in the fact that new players will struggle, it's a fun game and if dying in a game is enough to turn a player off, they probably shouldn't play games. It happens all the time and that's okay. Take the time to dust yourself off, think about what could have been done to prevent it, and find ways around the problem.

 

Sometimes you can absolutely get @%$#ed, and while it sucks a lot, it's still an enjoyable game. Don't let some sour experiences ruin the fun!

[JeremyIsaacs]

4 hours ago, ungkor said:

I feel like any new players are basically going to hate this game. 

 

It has a 91% positive rating among recent reviews on steam.  I think you can relax about this.

[Matt115]

5 hours ago, ungkor said:

For those of us that have been playing this game for years, we know what is "coming up" and we can plan for it accordingly. 

 

I feel like any new players are basically going to hate this game. 

 

But even if you are a experienced player, alpha 20 seems like a a build that is designed to just frustrate people.   I'm on day 15, I have a 9mm pistol with a mod, a pipe shotgun, and a pipe machine gun.   I have a few pieces of a armor. 

 

I start a "fix the generators quest".    I roll up in my bike, and I see a bear in the distance.   I shoot it the face with 2 clips of 9mm and it kills me.  Ok, great.  Maybe I missed a lot.  

 

I start the mission at 22:00 to start the generators, and am swarmed by, I am not kidding, 15 zeds, in the first 'trick room'.  

 

How the @%$# are you supposed to fight off 15 zombies at night with a 9mm and a few pipe guns?

 

There were years where 7d2d was my go to 'have a bit of fun' each night game.  I don't know that the intention is for this game, or where the devs want it to go, but for me right now, it just doesn't feel fun.  

 

Please bring the fun back.   

Limiting new player is nothing wrong - better to "keep" stabile player base that make easier because "old" player can stop playing because it can be too boring for them. Btw you can change difficulty option in server setting

[Slingblade2040]

Besides playing on default settings and if that's to difficult then new players can lower difficulty. 

 

Are new players just spoiled as far as always playing games in creative or on the easiest settings possible? I don't remember having that many issues when I started back in alpha 15 or even with mods throughout the years. 

 

I think it's the case as with my wife. She always plays games on the easiest possible settings and when she plays a game that either has no difficulty setting or she tries to play on defaults she struggles. 

 

I know it's a meme at this point but players need to get good. 

[Urban Blackbear]

When I was a newbie it was the difficulty that drew me back. I like a steep learning curve.

[meganoth]

7 hours ago, ungkor said:

For those of us that have been playing this game for years, we know what is "coming up" and we can plan for it accordingly. 

 

I feel like any new players are basically going to hate this game. 

 

But even if you are a experienced player, alpha 20 seems like a a build that is designed to just frustrate people.   I'm on day 15, I have a 9mm pistol with a mod, a pipe shotgun, and a pipe machine gun.   I have a few pieces of a armor. 

 

I start a "fix the generators quest".    I roll up in my bike, and I see a bear in the distance.   I shoot it the face with 2 clips of 9mm and it kills me.  Ok, great.  Maybe I missed a lot.  

 

I start the mission at 22:00 to start the generators, and am swarmed by, I am not kidding, 15 zeds, in the first 'trick room'.  

 

How the @%$# are you supposed to fight off 15 zombies at night with a 9mm and a few pipe guns?

 

There were years where 7d2d was my go to 'have a bit of fun' each night game.  I don't know that the intention is for this game, or where the devs want it to go, but for me right now, it just doesn't feel fun.  

 

Please bring the fun back.   

 

About one thing you are right, the night time generator missions are much more difficult than other missions of the same tier.

 

Usually those difficulty spikes happen at the start of every new major alpha version and get smoothed out over the next months through player feedback. In this case they could for example move those quests one or two tiers higher or they could make the warning more obvious that this is a difficult quest.

 

PS: In my first generator mission I survived because I went up on a ladder going to the next room and shot zombies in the head who tried to follow me up the ladder. And yes, I had a pistol as well 😉

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Roland]

It should also be noted that it depends where your quest is. I received a clear quest in the downtown area of a city and ended up running out of ammo because I couldn't keep up with the respawn rate and with feral sense on I was drawing zombie after zombie after me. After awhile it became almost impossible figuring out which zombie in the huge crowd was the red dot I needed to kill and because I could only use melee it became the most challenging Tier 2 clear quest I ever did....but fun.

[RipClaw]

8 hours ago, ungkor said:

For those of us that have been playing this game for years, we know what is "coming up" and we can plan for it accordingly. 

To be fair, when I started in A15, I knew nothing at all and got killed a couple of times before I even learned what I would now call basic knowledge. 

If the game has become harder or easier over time is hard to say.

 

The default difficulty setting is Adventurer. This should be helpful for many new players as the game is balanced for Nomad and Adventurer is easier. The spawn point is near a trader and the starter quest is much better now.

 

[Kasad]

I disagree with OP. I remember the first time I played A16 and almost any consecutive base therafter. In my first base I had no idea how to survive and I kept trying to fortify the starting house, ended up building a huge fortress around it with plain walls. I did not manage to close the gaps in the blocks and ended up swarming and fighting for my virtual life in the edges of my walls. Later I found I could build poles and keep hitting zombies through walls. I was excited! I found a way to survive for seemingly unlimited amount of time confined behind walls.

 

Even since A16 the game had a huge amount of explanatory tooltips. The only thing I had to search on wiki was basically how to farm and replicate water. Today you get tooltips, positions to move to, even the rocks in the tutorial have marks to locate.

 

In contrast there are survival games like don't starve, zomboid and minecraft which explain almost nothing to you. You have to constantly read the bloody wiki because the developers don't want to share basic info for their game.

 

The game is definitely not hard for new players, if anything I'd say it's too easy now because any player can barricade in their house with cobblestone and survive the bloodmoon with stone weapons.

 

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by Kasad (see edit history)

[bdubyah]

11 hours ago, ungkor said:

 I roll up in my bike, and I see a bear in the distance.   I shoot it the face with 2 clips of 9mm and it kills me.  Ok, great.  Maybe I missed a lot. 

So you shot at a bear that was in the distance and what? Stood there shooting while it ran right at you? I'd say you deserved that one. If you aren't in a defensible position or have higher end gear, maybe don't do that? Seems like common sense to me. Bears are tough SOBs in every game I've seen them in. Avoid them...

 

I haven't done too many power quests but I could see where they could be a bit much. But I also over-prepare for everything so I can be ready. I'm sure they will get a bit of balancing in the coming updates. Their rewards seem a bit lacking for the current difficulty.

[Maharin]

The game is still in alpha... but one would hope that by the time TFP gets to a release candidate they're happy with, they will have fully tested the game on default settings to make sure it is difficult but not impossible.  If the OP is playing on anything other than the default difficulty then they need to take that into account.  Most newbies will play on default settings and then adjust it based on how hard it feels to them after or during their first play through.

[Uoipka]

What an argument, you can call any game too hard and write exactly what you did here until the game will be idle simulator

[Laz Man]

4 hours ago, Roland said:

It should also be noted that it depends where your quest is. I received a clear quest in the downtown area of a city and ended up running out of ammo because I couldn't keep up with the respawn rate and with feral sense on I was drawing zombie after zombie after me. After awhile it became almost impossible figuring out which zombie in the huge crowd was the red dot I needed to kill and because I could only use melee it became the most challenging Tier 2 clear quest I ever did....but fun.

 

In regards to new players, quests should be labeled and colored accordingly to their difficulty.

 

E.g. T2 clear quest in downtown = Hard in Orange Color.

 

I think there might be a difficulty rating somewhere in the quest journal but it might be easily overlooked and/or not listed correctly?

[Boidster]

 

 

13 hours ago, ungkor said:

How the @%$# are you supposed to fight off 15 zombies at night with a 9mm and a few pipe guns?

 

This will sound flippant, because it is, but apparently you are not supposed to fight off 15 zombies at night with a 9mm and a few pipe guns. At least not without planning an exit strategy or setting up a defensible position first. 7D2D just has a harsh way of teaching this to you.

[Whorhay]

The restore power quests are definitely harder than the Tier you get them in, that said they can be trivialized if you understand the mechanic. First thing you should do is clear all the world spawn zombies in the area. Then right at 22:00 start the quest and move through the POI killing every single zombie. Once all the POI zombies are dead go back and turn on each generator, this does not have to be done before dawn. The generators make a ton of racket and will call in any zombies in the area that you haven't killed. But if all the zombies and hostile animals are dead then nothing untoward should happen. The biggest danger, provided you are capable enough to clear a poi of whatever tier it is you're doing at night, is that a wandering horde will spawn after you start and be lurking around for when you start a generator. So take a peak around before starting the generator and have plan for escaping if a horde comes in right when you start the generator.

 

[warmer]

Day 15 and you are doing night quests with a pistol?

 

Why are you surprised you got wrecked?

 

[Tmodloader]

15 hours ago, ungkor said:

For those of us that have been playing this game for years, we know what is "coming up" and we can plan for it accordingly. 

 

I feel like any new players are basically going to hate this game. 

 

But even if you are a experienced player, alpha 20 seems like a a build that is designed to just frustrate people.   I'm on day 15, I have a 9mm pistol with a mod, a pipe shotgun, and a pipe machine gun.   I have a few pieces of a armor. 

 

I start a "fix the generators quest".    I roll up in my bike, and I see a bear in the distance.   I shoot it the face with 2 clips of 9mm and it kills me.  Ok, great.  Maybe I missed a lot.  

Don't fight a bear with a 9mm, that goes for real life too, it will kill you in real life if you try that too

[Cobretti_]

It was a very long time ago but I recall dying a lot when I started, I bet most people here do. It isn't as if this game was ever minecraft for adults. It has always been brutal. You made a mistake picking that fight with a bear, now you know better. When I saw the generator quest pop up in my list early game, I thought "no, I am not equiped to take on a POI at night" so I didn't do it. Rules about night don't change just because you are doing a mission.

[PinkLed5]

Yup, I hated this game the first time I played it and almost quit, so I can't disagree.  But now I've got over 2,000 hours and wouldn't change a thing.

[Rotor]

I am okay so far.

 

Last night I was running back to base before night fall and one them dog packs came straight at me.  Pucker factor X10, I had just gotten a drop crate which had 4 or 5 of the super med kits.  I equipped hot bar with these and veered right running.  Figure I pop at least one and may out run or out jump.

 

The flew right past me.

 

I was relieved, but yes they are blind.

 

I was looting a garage, opened a door from afar and old zombie pit is sitting right there looking at me.  I ran like a beeyatch.  It never followed.  So I came back landed a crit on head from the crouch.  Then a wooden club to the nogging as it came at me.

 

Not attacking when door opens is weird as heck, but I was glad that time.

[ungkor]

Well, I discovered that I had xp turned to 200%, so my day 15 was way harder than it should have been.  Thank you for your comments everyone.

 

So I restarted.   That said, just tonight I was doing a Tier 1 quest, in the day, and encountered a Demolisher.   On day 2....

 

I fumbled some keys and died.   I probably could have lived, but I was trying to get a screenshot of a Demo on day 2 in a vanilla world for you all to see...

 

I like challenges.  I love them.   But Alpha 20 is just way to sporadically difficult to enjoy right now.   Why would a Demo show up on Day 2?

 

[Darklegend222]

35 minutes ago, ungkor said:

Well, I discovered that I had xp turned to 200%, so my day 15 was way harder than it should have been.  Thank you for your comments everyone.

 

So I restarted.   That said, just tonight I was doing a Tier 1 quest, in the day, and encountered a Demolisher.   On day 2....

 

I fumbled some keys and died.   I probably could have lived, but I was trying to get a screenshot of a Demo on day 2 in a vanilla world for you all to see...

 

I like challenges.  I love them.   But Alpha 20 is just way to sporadically difficult to enjoy right now.   Why would a Demo show up on Day 2?

 

I know you've probably been recommended this and it's annoying, but have you cleared your files through the launcher? Press play on 7 days to die, click the launcher button, go to the tools tab, and delete everything in those folders. Once that is done, right click 7 days to die, properties, then local files, and verify integrity of files. That way it will redownload every file and it should clear up any problems.

 

A demolisher on day 2 seems like a major issue that only ap corrupt game will have.

[ungkor]

On 1/10/2022 at 5:20 PM, warmer said:

Day 15 and you are doing night quests with a pistol?

 

Why are you surprised you got wrecked?

 

That is all I had.  I guess bad luck looting.  

1 hour ago, Darklegend222 said:

I know you've probably been recommended this and it's annoying, but have you cleared your files through the launcher? Press play on 7 days to die, click the launcher button, go to the tools tab, and delete everything in those folders. Once that is done, right click 7 days to die, properties, then local files, and verify integrity of files. That way it will redownload every file and it should clear up any problems.

 

A demolisher on day 2 seems like a major issue that only ap corrupt game will have.

Thank you so much.  I have not had anyone recommend clearing cached files.  That would be super interesting if I was complaining about game mechanics that don't actually exist (due to caching some old settings).