A20 Developer Diary Discussions

[Crater Creator]

14 minutes ago, FA_Q2 said:

...

 

Nothing particularly special about that street corner.  No reason the RWG Cannot spawn a 4 way when 2 roads intersect at the correct angle.   

 

The street lights do look rather good though lol.  Nice addition.

 

Actually I think it represents a magnificent improvement.  Yes, the intersection can be a pseudo-POI that's placed where roads intersect.  We've seen the beginnings of that already, with the occasional procedural bridge over gaps.  But note the lane markers going all the way down the road, and the cars that are distributed at random spots but positioned and rotated to align with the lanes.

 

That's huge.  It means that when RWG is fleshing out the roads now, it's no longer just painting asphalt blocks and haphazardly sprinkling individual decoration blocks on top.  If you can do those lane markers and aligned cars, it means you have the tech to do procedural guard rails along the road, shoulders along the road, ditches, culverts, fences, sidewalks, curbs, median strips, road signs, telephone poles, fire hydrants, bus stops, etc. etc.  They've had the art for many of these things for ages - now we could see them in RWG.  Fully leveraged, it'd make the RWG roads we have now look like childish doodles.

 

As someone who loves the potential of procedural generation, it's very exciting to see. 

 

P.S. It's worth mentioning that not all roads should have all this stuff.  It should be thoughtfully distributed on a spectrum from downtown/urban to rural/country, with the former having a lot of these procedural additions and the latter having very few.

[FA_Q2]

2 hours ago, Crater Creator said:

 

Actually I think it represents a magnificent improvement.  Yes, the intersection can be a pseudo-POI that's placed where roads intersect.  We've seen the beginnings of that already, with the occasional procedural bridge over gaps.  But note the lane markers going all the way down the road, and the cars that are distributed at random spots but positioned and rotated to align with the lanes.

 

That's huge.  It means that when RWG is fleshing out the roads now, it's no longer just painting asphalt blocks and haphazardly sprinkling individual decoration blocks on top.  If you can do those lane markers and aligned cars, it means you have the tech to do procedural guard rails along the road, shoulders along the road, ditches, culverts, fences, sidewalks, curbs, median strips, road signs, telephone poles, fire hydrants, bus stops, etc. etc.  They've had the art for many of these things for ages - now we could see them in RWG.  Fully leveraged, it'd make the RWG roads we have now look like childish doodles.

 

As someone who loves the potential of procedural generation, it's very exciting to see. 

 

P.S. It's worth mentioning that not all roads should have all this stuff.  It should be thoughtfully distributed on a spectrum from downtown/urban to rural/country, with the former having a lot of these procedural additions and the latter having very few.

Point taken.  Roads would be a pretty big improvement as what we have now are not really roads 😛

[Blake_]

3 hours ago, Crater Creator said:

 

Actually I think it represents a magnificent improvement.  Yes, the intersection can be a pseudo-POI that's placed where roads intersect.  We've seen the beginnings of that already, with the occasional procedural bridge over gaps.  But note the lane markers going all the way down the road, and the cars that are distributed at random spots but positioned and rotated to align with the lanes.

 

That's huge.  It means that when RWG is fleshing out the roads now, it's no longer just painting asphalt blocks and haphazardly sprinkling individual decoration blocks on top.  If you can do those lane markers and aligned cars, it means you have the tech to do procedural guard rails along the road, shoulders along the road, ditches, culverts, fences, sidewalks, curbs, median strips, road signs, telephone poles, fire hydrants, bus stops, etc. etc.  They've had the art for many of these things for ages - now we could see them in RWG.  Fully leveraged, it'd make the RWG roads we have now look like childish doodles.

 

As someone who loves the potential of procedural generation, it's very exciting to see. 

 

P.S. It's worth mentioning that not all roads should have all this stuff.  It should be thoughtfully distributed on a spectrum from downtown/urban to rural/country, with the former having a lot of these procedural additions and the latter having very few.

As far as I know, roads were and are a separate generation layer with certain rules, that includes road decals, decorations, vehicles and were to generate and not to . What is extremely exciting is that Kyansdjkfhadfgju (Robert) said that [everything that is on the screenshot] will be in A20, including a mountainous/flat option to make the flat map of your dreams, all the way up to City density control option, and all of that in addition to these roads, sidewalks. Street lights, rivers, etc. 

 

Expect weird elevations and placement on a few places in (default non-flat elevation) big RWG maps though. It takes A LOT of time to perfect an algorithm the size of this one. It will eventually be perfect after all the POI, props and features are in. In the meantime, it ,might just be 98% believable. Right now I would say for a bunch of generated 4kx4k maps I encountered from 2 to 8 weird places in each one, usually related to road elevation or POI elevation (too high or too deep or bad intersection elevation).

 

[Kalex]

12 hours ago, meganoth said:

What do you mean by that? I couldn't find anything special about Unreals client server model in the net. Also nothing in this official doc about the client-server model:

 

https://docs.unrealengine.com/en-US/InteractiveExperiences/Networking/Server/index.html

 

 

 The tethering I am talking about is when you are running a client-host game (LAN) if the client tries to go too far from the host's character, it will rubberband them back into range of the host because of the way the game engine loads sectors based on x distance from the host only and not by x distance from each player on the server. Dedicated servers do not have this problem only the peer-to-peer games.

[SwineDK]

12 minutes ago, Kalex said:

 The tethering I am talking about is when you are running a client-host game (LAN) if the client tries to go too far from the host's character, it will rubberband them back into range of the host because of the way the game engine loads sectors based on x distance from the host only and not by x distance from each player on the server. Dedicated servers do not have this problem only the peer-to-peer games.

That seems like a per-game issue.
I haven't used Unreal, but pretty much any chunk loading system, independant of game engine, is usually developed by the game developers themselves.. I could be wrong about Unreal having a built-in system, but It would be weird if they had it build-in by default and set it up to center around the host instead of the local player, which would be the easier task.. at least in my mind, having built a couple of them..

 

Edit: for multiplayer games, it would not be a big issue for the clients to request a chunk far away from the host, that the host is managing physics and state for. It's pretty much just a bunch of numbers and some math calculations here and there.

The biggest issue as I see it, are the floating point calculations, since the farther away from 0 you get with floating points, the more imprecise they get. But that can be fixed by some virtual movements of chunks.

Edited April 27, 2021 by SwineDK
clarification and extending response (see edit history)

[Adam the Waster]

16 hours ago, BananaCustard said:

Sorry if this had been asked before and I missed it... But will the wasteland City be finished for alpha 20?

IKR

can't wait to see the city there

 

[TSBX]

19 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

I wonder if this image takes place in Navezgane or RWG?

Description from Twitter, for context. 

 

"Hey Survivors,

Here is a work in progress teaser screen shot showing off a new primitive pistol, a new Fat cop, a ton of updated and new environment art and a brand-new Random World Generation Algorithm. Great work by the entire TFP Team coming to Alpha 20 Stay tuned! "

 

So, that's RWG, and it looks amazing.

 

 

[Adam the Waster]

23 minutes ago, TSBX said:

Description from Twitter, for context. 

 

"Hey Survivors,

Here is a work in progress teaser screen shot showing off a new primitive pistol, a new Fat cop, a ton of updated and new environment art and a brand-new Random World Generation Algorithm. Great work by the entire TFP Team coming to Alpha 20 Stay tuned! "

 

So, that's RWG, and it looks amazing.

 

 

I have to see it to believe it!

i require a New Nasa PC and a access for playtesting 

will take 9 months for review

[JCrook1028]

23 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

My money is it's Navezgane.

The text says RWG and Joel even answered you on that tweet, it's RWG.

[MechanicalLens]

26 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:

The text says RWG and Joel even answered you on that tweet, it's RWG.

 

I got the message long ago, thanks.

[Roland]

8 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

 

I got the message long ago, thanks.

It's RWG Mech!

[meganoth]

6 minutes ago, Roland said:

It's RWG Mech!

Maybe send him a personal message, he might not see your post here among all the clutter.

 

[Roland]

12 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Maybe send him a personal message, he might not see your post here among all the clutter.

 

I'll send him ten. He may not notice the first nine.

[BFT2020]

3 hours ago, bachgaman said:

Overhaul land claim block, 7000 durability per 5 small stones is cheating, even if it can only be 1. People abuse it anyway

What exactly is the abuse?

[Adam the Waster]

23 minutes ago, Roland said:

I did not see the streams but I can tell you that it is coming and that calling it a flying turret is a bit generous...

its more of a flying helper

 

[Roland]

as long as it isn't a flying get-in-my-line-of-fire....

[MechanicalLens]

1 minute ago, Roland said:

as long as it isn't a flying get-in-my-line-of-fire....

 

*Flashbacks to Skyrim followers* 😬

[hiemfire]

3 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

 

*Flashbacks to Skyrim followers* 😬

*flashes back to Fallout 3, NV, & 4 companions* 😖 Dammit Bethesda!!

[bachgaman]

5 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

What exactly is the abuse?

You can handle any wandering horde on any difficulty level with any weapon just with 2 wooden frames and 1 land claim block

[BFT2020]

4 hours ago, bachgaman said:

You can handle any wandering horde on any difficulty level with any weapon just with 2 wooden frames and 1 land claim block

Definitely a cheesy tactic, but is it game breaking that requires TFP to divert time and resources to fix?

[Matt115]

On 4/27/2021 at 4:42 AM, Crater Creator said:

 

Actually I think it represents a magnificent improvement.  Yes, the intersection can be a pseudo-POI that's placed where roads intersect.  We've seen the beginnings of that already, with the occasional procedural bridge over gaps.  But note the lane markers going all the way down the road, and the cars that are distributed at random spots but positioned and rotated to align with the lanes.

 

That's huge.  It means that when RWG is fleshing out the roads now, it's no longer just painting asphalt blocks and haphazardly sprinkling individual decoration blocks on top.  If you can do those lane markers and aligned cars, it means you have the tech to do procedural guard rails along the road, shoulders along the road, ditches, culverts, fences, sidewalks, curbs, median strips, road signs, telephone poles, fire hydrants, bus stops, etc. etc.  They've had the art for many of these things for ages - now we could see them in RWG.  Fully leveraged, it'd make the RWG roads we have now look like childish doodles.

 

As someone who loves the potential of procedural generation, it's very exciting to see. 

 

P.S. It's worth mentioning that not all roads should have all this stuff.  It should be thoughtfully distributed on a spectrum from downtown/urban to rural/country, with the former having a lot of these procedural additions and the latter having very few.

Well i think that small number of cars is conscious decision. In days gone or l4d2 even in dying light there is a lot of cars but in 7dtd we can scrap them so if they set to respawning in number like on begining of dark carnival could broke ballance . But i hope sometime they will be looking like car accident or small 4-5 cars traffic with corpses

[bachgaman]

1 hour ago, BFT2020 said:

Definitely a cheesy tactic, but is it game breaking that requires TFP to divert time and resources to fix?

At least they can make the recipe more expensive, for example include gold and silver that not used in the game

 

Dont think it takes many time and resources 

 

It will be enough to postpone the possibility of crafting it from the start of the game, make crafting time longer and not give it out at the beginning

 

Yes, I think it's worth it, because an early and cheap opportunity to get such blocks breaks the game

Edited April 28, 2021 by bachgaman (see edit history)

[Adam the Waster]

6 hours ago, bachgaman said:

You can handle any wandering horde on any difficulty level with any weapon just with 2 wooden frames and 1 land claim block

That sound SO boring! i don't get how people find that fun!

"Oh boy, a horde is coming! let me uses the game engine to my advantage to make them go away!"

that's not fun  

[bachgaman]

3 minutes ago, Adam the Waster said:

That sound SO boring! i don't get how people find that fun!

"Oh boy, a horde is coming! let me uses the game engine to my advantage to make them go away!"

that's not fun  

Im agree that's why I'm writing about it. The game pushes us to use the shortcomings boringly and I ask to fix it. Besides, it's not hard.

I don't use it by the way, but I know a lot of people abuse

[Adam the Waster]

49 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

At least they can make the recipe more expensive, for example include gold and silver that not used in the game

 

Dont think it takes many time and resources 

 

It will be enough to postpone the possibility of crafting it from the start of the game, make crafting time longer and not give it out at the beginning

 

Yes, I think it's worth it because being able to get such blocks for free breaks the game

I kinda agree but at the same time, what if you loses the first one. You need one to set up a base and if you mess something up so you can pick it back up. i like to set up my HQ in a POI but zombies can spawn without it 

maybe the Land claim block could be a flag or something not a block that could not be built on. or to act as a support. 




 

1 minute ago, bachgaman said:

Im agree that's why I'm writing about it. The game pushes us to use the shortcomings boringly and I ask to fix it. Besides, it's not hard.

I don't use it by the way, but I know a lot of people abuse

i just don't think it should be something that a super strong block. Maybe in PVP but not PVE 


Back then it was made of steel but now its stone. 

i really uses it as a way to say.

"this is my house"