A20 Developer Diary Discussions

[Guppycur]

36 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Where did you read that? I said he probably didn't play-test the game like he did in previous versions, just that.

I remember when he actually made all those videos of him actually playing the (unreleased) upcoming new alpha from day 1 to day 100 or something.

 

Did you see him doing that for A20? I don't think so.

Hence why I said that.

Well because they haven't reached that point yet for his playthroughs... you've been around long enough, you know darned well he plays his own game.  Much to our amusement (bow drop anyone?).  I still think that one's my favorite, but where he had his turrent shoot his own car is a close second. 😃

[Fanatical_Meat]

If I remember correctly Mr. Mole said he was busy with an unannounced game and hasn’t spent a lot of time with A20 or 7D2D lately or something like that 

 

edit: to be clear this doesn’t mean he has checked out and doesn’t care, it means he spends less time with it. He made a post a few months ago saying something to that effect.

Edited September 22, 2021 by Fanatical_Meat (see edit history)

[Roland]

Joel plays plenty of A20 and shares his feedback and the changes he wants based upon his plays. 
 

He was a major proponent for the block upgrade changes. 
 

He hasn’t been an absentee developer for A20.
 

[Demonoid74]

2 hours ago, Guppycur said:

Well because they haven't reached that point yet for his playthroughs... you've been around long enough, you know darned well he plays his own game.  Much to our amusement (bow drop anyone?).  I still think that one's my favorite, but where he had his turrent shoot his own car is a close second. 😃

 

Didnt he also jump out of his gyro copter one time and end up dying? or was that just a strange and completely in character dream...

[Guppycur]

35 minutes ago, Demonoid74 said:

 

Didnt he also jump out of his gyro copter one time and end up dying? or was that just a strange and completely in character dream...

I mean, sure, let's make it a real memory if it isn't already.

[SnowDog1942]

59 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

He was a major proponent for the block upgrade changes. 

can u ask him to play less?

Edited September 22, 2021 by SnowDog1942 (see edit history)

[Life_For_Dead]

Are you serious for your game ? Take a look of this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ln3jrW-uYc

 

 

It's in french but that explain nearly the way to do to don't have zombie during BM because zombies don't spawn on player block (here tested with/without claim/bed)

 

& so I think if we place "one million" blocks all around us to +500m, we will not have zombie during BM ? ? ?

 

If it's right, that will be very stupid...

Edited September 22, 2021 by Life_For_Dead (see edit history)

[Games'n'Grumble]

1 hour ago, Life_For_Dead said:

Are you serious for your game ? Take a look of this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ln3jrW-uYc

 

 

It's in french but that explain nearly the way to do to don't have zombie during BM because zombies don't spawn on player block (here tested with/without claim/bed)

 

& so I think if we place "one million" blocks all around us to +500m, we will not have zombie during BM ? ? ?

 

If it's right, that will be very stupid...

believe me, in most games you can find similar loopholes. But first, think about whether you will be ready to spend a few game days or a few hours of real life just to lay the terrain in blocks? It is unlikely that beginners will do this. But players who have "already seen everything" are capable of this. There are still about 10 "legal" ways to avoid BM, but in this particular case, if a player puts a huge piece of terrain in blocks JUST TO AVOID bloodmoon, then the problem is not in the game, the problem is in the player, I think

[Life_For_Dead]

3 hours ago, Games'n'Grumble said:

believe me, in most games you can find similar loopholes. But first, think about whether you will be ready to spend a few game days or a few hours of real life just to lay the terrain in blocks? It is unlikely that beginners will do this. But players who have "already seen everything" are capable of this. There are still about 10 "legal" ways to avoid BM, but in this particular case, if a player puts a huge piece of terrain in blocks JUST TO AVOID bloodmoon, then the problem is not in the game, the problem is in the player, I think

 

Yes, I know too multi skip BM since they changed the mechanic of it, but I don't talk specially to skip it.

Actualy on a private server +50 players, we build a big city 1000x1000 since the beginning of a19. The base anti-horde is build in the center of the city 0.0. We not yet build street & so if we do (we plan to put blocks in cobble & concrete), well I think BM's zombies will not spawn... Or maybe they will spawn but outside of the city so at 500m from the center ?

Edited September 22, 2021 by Life_For_Dead (see edit history)

[dcsobral]

4 hours ago, Life_For_Dead said:

Are you serious for your game ? Take a look of this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ln3jrW-uYc

 

 

It's in french but that explain nearly the way to do to don't have zombie during BM because zombies don't spawn on player block (here tested with/without claim/bed)

 

& so I think if we place "one million" blocks all around us to +500m, we will not have zombie during BM ? ? ?

 

If it's right, that will be very stupid...

You can also turn off BM on the settings. Zombies not spawning if you spend countless hours laying down blocks in a large area is not a problem -- in fact, one might argue it is within the goals of the game. Having zombies spawn inside your base is a much bigger of a problem but what, exactly, is your base in a game that places very few limits on what you can do?

 

I'd say the balance right now is pretty good.

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, Life_For_Dead said:

 

Yes, I know too multi skip BM since they changed the mechanic of it, but I don't talk specially to skip it.

Actualy on a private server +50 players, we build a big city 1000x1000 since the beginning of a19. The base anti-horde is build in the center of the city 0.0. We not yet build street & so if we do (we plan to put blocks in cobble & concrete), well I think BM's zombies will not spawn... Or maybe they will spawn but outside of the city so at 500m from the center ?

 

Interesting problem. How about keeping you base surrounded with as many small "city parks" as possible? And keep them in their natural state.

[Kam R.]

2 hours ago, Life_For_Dead said:

 

Yes, I know too multi skip BM since they changed the mechanic of it, but I don't talk specially to skip it.

Actualy on a private server +50 players, we build a big city 1000x1000 since the beginning of a19. The base anti-horde is build in the center of the city 0.0. We not yet build street & so if we do (we plan to put blocks in cobble & concrete), well I think BM's zombies will not spawn... Or maybe they will spawn but outside of the city so at 500m from the center ?

As someone who's been part of several player city projects my opinion is this: Everything within the city HAS to be covered in player blocks and your bloodmoon defense has to be on the edge of the city. Covering everything in blocks also denies spawn points for wandering hordes or screamers (or used to at least), which aren't really a challenge and just annoying, getting stuck, breaking stuff and feel especially stupid when you have a large wall around your city which shouldn't even let Zs pass. Don't know if you guys have a wall.

But yeah, when you cover everything with your streets you can either leave a few spots of terrain for Zs to spawn on in a 50ish block radius around your anti-horde base or you build a new anti horde base at the gates of your city:]

Edited September 22, 2021 by Kam R. (see edit history)

[jorbascrumps]

2 hours ago, Life_For_Dead said:

 

Yes, I know too multi skip BM since they changed the mechanic of it, but I don't talk specially to skip it.

Actualy on a private server +50 players, we build a big city 1000x1000 since the beginning of a19. The base anti-horde is build in the center of the city 0.0. We not yet build street & so if we do (we plan to put blocks in cobble & concrete), well I think BM's zombies will not spawn... Or maybe they will spawn but outside of the city so at 500m from the center ?

 

I'd say this is working as intended. If we didn't have spawn blocking on player placed blocks than zombies would spawn inside bases and that's no fun. TFP are not designing the game around 50+ player servers so if you want to build mega cities you'll have to deal with consequences like this.

 

16 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Interesting problem. How about keeping you base surrounded with as many small "city parks" as possible? And keep them in their natural state.

 

This is probably the best solution.

[JCrook1028]

9 hours ago, Life_For_Dead said:

Are you serious for your game ? Take a look of this video, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ln3jrW-uYc

 

 

It's in french but that explain nearly the way to do to don't have zombie during BM because zombies don't spawn on player block (here tested with/without claim/bed)

 

& so I think if we place "one million" blocks all around us to +500m, we will not have zombie during BM ? ? ?

 

If it's right, that will be very stupid...

That's an easier way to avoid the BM. Turn it off.

Edited September 22, 2021 by JCrook1028
typo (see edit history)

[Aldranon]

On 9/22/2021 at 5:44 AM, Demonoid74 said:

 

Didnt he also jump out of his gyro copter one time and end up dying? or was that just a strange and completely in character dream...

 

That was me... Every time I get a Gyro ("Al go splat") machine...

[POCKET951]

On 9/21/2021 at 11:33 PM, SnowDog1942 said:

can u ask him to play less?

whats wrong with the block upgrade changes?

 

It got easier to upgrade  them, and they are overall sturdier. The only downside is you get 816 EXp going from wood to steel as opposed to 1056. 
the block upgrades give exactly as much exp as they did before, but the concrete>reinforced concrete step is gone, as well as the EXP that came with it

[SnowDog1942]

2 hours ago, POCKET951 said:

whats wrong with the block upgrade changes?

 

It got easier to upgrade  them, and they are overall sturdier. The only downside is you get 816 EXp going from wood to steel as opposed to 1056. 
the block upgrades give exactly as much exp as they did before, but the concrete>reinforced concrete step is gone, as well as the EXP that came with it

 

it would be even easier if we just had something called blocks and not had to worry about about upgrading at all, right?

[meganoth]

5 hours ago, POCKET951 said:

whats wrong with the block upgrade changes?

 

It got easier to upgrade  them, and they are overall sturdier. The only downside is you get 816 EXp going from wood to steel as opposed to 1056. 
the block upgrades give exactly as much exp as they did before, but the concrete>reinforced concrete step is gone, as well as the EXP that came with it

 

I don't think many here think about the XP, at all.

 

A few reasons I can think of:

1) Simplifying the block upgrade makes the game less complex and complexity is good in some cases. For example you have a lot more choices to save building materials in exchange for less sturdiness. Someone could say "This wall can be just concrete. These 5 blocks should be reinforced though".

2) Removing the drying phase removes a tactical element that can come into play sometimes shortly before a horde night: Do I upgrade these blocks now and risk them not being dry when it counts?

3) There might be the fear that the textures could vanish with the blocks that have it, at least for building.

4) Immersion. The drying phase, reinforcing concrete with rebars, it looks like things you do in real life

 

 

Edited September 24, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Gamida]

52 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

I don't think many here think about the XP, at all.

 

A few reasons I can think of:

1) Simplifying the block upgrade makes the game less complex and complexity is good in some cases. For example you have a lot more choices to save building materials in exchange for less sturdiness. Someone could say "This wall can be just concrete. These 5 blocks should be reinforced though".

2) Removing the drying phase removes a tactical element that can come into play sometimes shortly before a horde night: Do I upgrade these blocks now and risk them not being dry when it counts?

3) There might be the fear that the textures could vanish with the blocks that have it, at least for building.

4) Immersion. The drying phase, reinforcing concrete with rebars, it looks like things you do in real life

 

 

I can't explain it but I found the look of wet blocks very pleasing. I would almost sit there and watch them dry. The blocks drying randomly calmed me down. Yes I am weird that way lol.

[meganoth]

9 minutes ago, Gamida said:

I can't explain it but I found the look of wet blocks very pleasing. I would almost sit there and watch them dry. The blocks drying randomly calmed me down. Yes I am weird that way lol.

 

It never calmed me but it was actually fun hunting for the dried spots to upgrade them further (once in a while)

[Gamida]

14 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

It never calmed me but it was actually fun hunting for the dried spots to upgrade them further (once in a while)

Might also just be me but as I grew up I helped a lot of friends pour cement for their shed/garage floors and I thought the look in game looked pretty close to me (the shiny, shiny sheen lol). Maybe it just brings me back to my youth

[POCKET951]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

I don't think many here think about the XP, at all.

 

A few reasons I can think of:

1) Simplifying the block upgrade makes the game less complex and complexity is good in some cases. For example you have a lot more choices to save building materials in exchange for less sturdiness. Someone could say "This wall can be just concrete. These 5 blocks should be reinforced though".

2) Removing the drying phase removes a tactical element that can come into play sometimes shortly before a horde night: Do I upgrade these blocks now and risk them not being dry when it counts?

3) There might be the fear that the textures could vanish with the blocks that have it, at least for building.

4) Immersion. The drying phase, reinforcing concrete with rebars, it looks like things you do in real life

 

 

1) concrete is 5k health and cobble is 1.5k,  in A19 Reinforced concrete was 5k and reg concrete was 3k, you also don't have to wait for it to dry
2) removing the drying phases makes building stuff so much easier, I don't have to set and lay a whole bunch of building blocks and then wait for every single one of them to dry to upgrade them all.
3)meh
4) when I am trying to upgrade a base before horde night, or work on  one in general, I really dislike that random amount of time I have to wait for it all to dry, for example if its a  corner piece I would have to wait for it to dry and fully upgraded it before I could build on top of it , it added alot of unnecessary and annoying time bottle necks to making a structure with fully upgraded blocks. I prefer to min max my exp rather than just leave those pieces un-upgraded

 

I feel like in this case complexity results in tedium and time consumption, and not  necessarily interesting player choices because if its a horde base I will always want reinforced concrete or steel, and this simplification makes that process far easier and less painful/time consuming.

 

Also, if I am working on a hordebase , there isn't alot to work on or do while I am waiting for the wet concrete to dry, and its boring to wait to upgrade stuff. aside from removing grass around the horde base  I am not sure what else to do in that time

[ssrjazz]

On 9/22/2021 at 10:49 PM, MechanicalLens said:

Can we get a questline in A20 to assassinate Trader Rekt? It wouldn't have to be anything special, it could even be called exactly that. 😜

 

I would like to second this request….

[Renathras]

2 hours ago, Roland said:

That might change in November. “Dancing the spears” might become popular. The wheel weaves as the wheel wills. 

I like spears, but I'd like them more if I could do knife things with them.  The machete and steel knuckles let me save an inventory slot as they double as animal harvesting tools.  Oddly, neither spears nor axes do this, even though both have blades and spears should arguably make a better harvesting tool for game than anything other than the hunting knife itself.  It's still odd to me that they don't (I don't think...?) work that way.

Then again, I also liked when I could use the fireman axe and the pipe wrench as a weapon, ala Half-Life.  Anyone who's ever held a pipe wrench knows taking a blow from one of those to the head would not be a fun day.  It's odd to me that those are considered harvesting tools and not weapons with their own weapon skill lines.  Though I guess they're scattered across the harvesting lines.  Especially the steal axe, as that thing looks like some kind of Viking battleaxe of myth.

I am curious if there's ever going to be a pass of skills.  Right now, Intellect has the bulk of the skills, meaning if you're playing a game with friends and trying to focus, whoever has Int has to spread their skills across medicine, workbench stuff, and vehicle stuff.  Meanwhile, cooking is under Strength and gardening under Fortitude.  Perception and Agility seem to have no "group friendly" skills like that.  I'm not sure what the solution is, but I feel like unloading some of Intellect's craftlines onto other skills would be nice.  Granted, solo players would hate this because it means they can't just go all-in on Intellect to triple-dip.  But...solo players are also eventually going to get all skills anyway, and it seems like there should be SOME solution that makes things better for everyone...

Anyway, those are just my two cents.  Reading all of this has me excited for A20 when it hits!  I especially like that me and my two friends will all be able to cram into a 4x4 now.  If only we could slap an M60 on it and make it into a makeshift Warthog.......  Even better if we could stick a seat on either side of the Gyro for 3 person flying fun.

[RBN]

8 hours ago, friendlyx3 said:

That's quite interesting considering AMD GPU's are what's recommended for linux gaming due to the driver compatibility.

And i agree with this, I have had NVIDIAs cards and they was a PIA in linux. Maybe I don't express myself well; the native linux build doesn't perform bad but the windows version through proton/wine performs better. Maybe because proton use vulkan....?

Anyway both works better than the windows version in windows 7 in the same machine and not by a little...In windows is between 20-40 and in linux is between 35-50 with almost 60 inside mines, rooms,etc and more stable. In windows the yellow fps is common and in linux is rare (only sometimes in  BM)

Edited September 25, 2021 by RBN (see edit history)