Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[MuffinMan]

33 minutes ago, faatal said:

No. Profiling requires Unity editor to attach to game. Game has to be a dev build, which makes it run quite a bit slower, so you don't want to be playing a dev build.

 

Profiling is also not as great as it sounds. Knowing something is slow is easy, I see lots of that whenever I profile. Trying to make it faster is the hard part.

 

Cities are going to be slower by their very nature. More objects/blocks/zombies. More is going to render slower. To handle more, you turn down settings to reach a reasonable FPS vs quality tradeoff.

There is literally no setting I can change to improve FPS except the "draw distance". 5950x and 3090.

[Firecat]

1 hour ago, MuffinMan said:

There is literally no setting I can change to improve FPS except the "draw distance". 5950x and 3090

 

Indeed. I run a computer that in alpha 19 would only drop into frames below 60 if I turned settings to ultra. Usually ultra would give me about 40 fps.  It could handle high no issues, and I usually run on the lowest settings that still look "pretty", in this game that is medium. A20 on medium now I'm pretty much never above 60 frames unless I'm out in the wilderness, and in the city I'm getting like 30 fps. When I started seeing visual stutters due to sudden frame drops I started playing with the settings, but turning the settings to low had no effect, the fps stayed essentially the same.

 

P.S.

LMAO I noticed something is a bit...odd about the college jacket. That's not how that texture is supposed to go, I wouldn't think! +1 silly inconsequential bug

[meilodasreh]

Spoiler

 

If it stays,

the lower hitpoint stuff should at least get its own "flimsy deco stuff tab", or being highlighted/separated somehow else from the regular "full HP stuff".

 

So at least you can't run into accidentally create absolutely non-obvious structural weakness in your base design,

just because you just want it to be nice/smooth looking, and wanting to try out all the great new shapes.

 

I guess that's the main point why everybody is complaining about the change.

And I don't like it either, although I can see the fact that before you could somewhat "exploit" building by adding thin stuff together to have a nice HP upgrade whilst still having some nice and slim design. (can't see the actual problem with that either btw)

[palikkamaa]

On 12/18/2021 at 9:42 AM, HeLLKnight said:

 

In my testing with a20 in cities FPS improves a ton lowering object quality, and in a second place, shadows.

 

Object quality ultra:

 

 

Object quality lowest:

 

 

Yeah, there is a big difference in graphics, I usually play at medium object quality. RTX3080, i7 7700k, 16gb 3200 CL15, game on SSD, pregen 8k, creative mode. 4k resolution, default high preset. Tried also 1080p, low preset, same spot. Ultra object quality is ~45fps, lowest object quality ~130fps.

 

Gallery with all ultra, high, medium, low and lowest here:

https://imgur.com/a/z7YjHRV

 

@faatal please take a look how CPU and GPU are quite low all the time, maybe is there a code bottleneck? Also GPU usage seems inversely affected when lowering object quality. Maybe the less bottleneck is there, the more GPU can be used? Hope it helps.

 

Also please take a look to this mod which greatly reduces TAA flickering, maybe can help devs too: https://www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/1746

 

 

I also did quick stationary test that changing object quality from ultra to lowest improves framerate from 44 -> 75. However, object popping is very noticeable. I would not play lower than medium which still nets ~+20fps compared to ultra or +10 to high what I was using. However, out in the wilderness, fps gain was only 100 -> 110 between lowest and ultra so not really meaningful. (I'm using 9600k + 2070s +16gb ram)

[MechanicalLens]

Okay, important question. Do zombie loot bags despawn after you log out of the game?

[Aldranon]

3 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

Oh, you're one of those guys... 

 

Wow Josh, go easy on the new guy, that's his first post!

[MechanicalLens]

7 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Okay, important question. Do zombie loot bags despawn after you log out of the game?

 

Don't bothering answering.

 

[POCKET951]

11 hours ago, SnowDog1942 said:

No, but my turds were so powerful you had to remove them.

 

Sounds like the poop I had at work today.

[Jost Amman]

30 minutes ago, Aldranon said:

Wow Josh, go easy on the new guy, that's his first post!

Did you get my reference though? 

It's a joke but maybe not too easy to get... ;-]

[MechanicalLens]

Even with the nerf, I feel the pipe machine gun is still far too powerful compared to the other pipe weapons. I think another nerf is needed. From my feedback, but I propose these changes:

 

- A level 6 pipe machine gun currently has a damage value of 45.6 with regular bullets. I would reduce the maximum damage to 35, and go down from there as quality level decreases.
- Currently, pipe machine guns have a magazine size of 15. I would reduce this to 10.
- Their current rounds/minute is 335. I would reduce this by half, so around 160-165.
- I would double the reload time.
- Accuracy would be terrible if you hold it down fully auto. This would be alright in close combat situations but from afar or fights that require precision, it would encourage the player to single tap the weapon, or fire in small bursts.

 

In general, I also don't think pipe weapons should be able to use more advanced ammo types.

[Vedui]

4 hours ago, faatal said:

Any pole health reduction should be balanced with a reduced zed damage buf, but I actually forgot that code was even in there until I saw in forum discussion. Things are a bit hectic around here with a lot of back and forth on a variety of bugs and balance issues.

 

I thought... this was communicated  last time that there was NO zed damage buff, beyond a "getting stuck" 6x damage which just happened to hit certain shapes more than others, even though it could actually happen to full blocks too?

 

Or are you saying that's not correct, and there was a specific zed damage buff to .. poles?

[SnowDog1942]

5 hours ago, faatal said:

Already changed that today. Upgrade, repair and harvesting all scale.

 

We are still testing and thinking about these changes like many parts of the game. I'm currently leaning towards two buckets. 25% (or 33%) and 100%. The 25 being the obviously flimsy/weak/small blocks that should not be stopping anything from breaking through and anyone should be able to look at and say that is not going to protect me.

 

Bars were intentionally excluded because they are primary window and elevated defenses. Plates would probably move back into the 100%, but we are still discussing. Changing stuff to see what happens is what game development is about and some major changes can and do happen during experimental.

This should be welcome news for everyone.  My only remaining question is,  will there be a way to identify these HP values easily, maybe inside the shape selector? some kind of indicator on each shape? 

[Vedui]

4 hours ago, faatal said:

Already changed that today. Upgrade, repair and harvesting all scale.

 

We are still testing and thinking about these changes like many parts of the game. I'm currently leaning towards two buckets. 25% (or 33%) and 100%. The 25 being the obviously flimsy/weak/small blocks that should not be stopping anything from breaking through and anyone should be able to look at and say that is not going to protect me.

 

Bars were intentionally excluded because they are primary window and elevated defenses. Plates would probably move back into the 100%, but we are still discussing. Changing stuff to see what happens is what game development is about and some major changes can and do happen during experimental.

 

This is starting to make even less sense though. If a pole represents 2-5 % of the material of a full block, it should also have 2-5 % of the resources to craft, and 2-5 % of the HP. Likewise if a plate is 10 % of the full block, it should have 10 % of the HP.

 

But if this just applies to when you upgrade and repair, the whole purpose of pre-made (non wood) blocks falters, as it suddenly represents a much steeper material cost, which really makes the block helper system weird.  Not to mention we can't see the HP until after we place, and then damage the block.

 

Beyond that, if plates move back to 100 %, and bars are staying in 100 %, then why are poles and likewise smaller shapes penalized? Then you have basically "Any shape that is 10-100 % of the block space, has 100 % hp, but anything that has 1-9 % of the block space (ie, poles) suddenly have 25 % ... all it means is people won't build using the very tiny blocks for any structural purposes, which they likely don't do today anyhow. So why change it?

 

The only reason I see this would be to discourage using smaller shapes in bases ... but why? If official POI's are an issue, talk to the POI creators. Otherwise it really seems to ONLY be to start restricting players in their builds, which is a super peculiar direction for a sandbox game. Let players build what they want, it hurts no one, not themselves, and no other players either.

 

Now as to bars being intentionally excluded because they are primary window/elevated defenses, that makes little sense too. A pole raised base would suffer from collapses, but a bar-raised base (ie, bars as pillars) would work great.  Full HP AND immune to cop vomit as it passes through.

 

In either case, I just think it's a super peculiar design choice. People were super excited with using 1365 (or whatevver) blockshapes, and suddenly this is thrown in which I can't see having any positive effect for players at all, it's all downside.

 

But it's great to see this in an experimental version, so that it can be discussed, fine tuned, and hopefully reverted an removed entirely

[Kosmic Kerman]

I've noticed that the lighting is causing problems with the clarity of the UI, making it unreadable at times. I've noticed this multiple times but have just readjusted my camera for better contrast.  However in the trader I was unable to do this and realized that at least one of the offenders here is the reflection on the hunting knife. Those reflections made the Quest Selection text in Trader Jen completely unreadable. I switched to the pistol and the question selection text was clear as day.  Obviously this is a very small item but as you start polishing the game, several of the tools/weapons probably need another pass on their lighting.

[MechanicalLens]

Just curious, how come the auger starts to gradually lose block damage as it gets below 50% durability level?

[Kosmic Kerman]

6 hours ago, Firecat said:

 Seconded, my friend and I notice our frames drop from normal 60-80 fps elsewhere to 15-30 in certain parts of the wasteland city we live in, especially bad with lots of zombie activity, changing graphics settings doesn't appear to make a difference. In recollection I do think the areas of city where it is especially bad are indeed where the new city block areas. The worst area so far has been around the dishong and higashi skyscrapers (they are across the street from each other). I know some folks have report issues with Dishong in particular, so I thought that might be the cause. Also we liked the game we were playing and did not wipe and restart after the first update patch, so I thought maybe some changes were causing frame drops in maps generated in the initial a20 version.

 

I've only had massive frame drops when looting a building near 2 skyscrapers.   It's possible that is due to increased zombie activity in downtown but it really seems like one, or multiple, of the skyscraper POIs have some sort of serious issue. 

 

5 hours ago, faatal said:

Already changed that today. Upgrade, repair and harvesting all scale.

 

We are still testing and thinking about these changes like many parts of the game. I'm currently leaning towards two buckets. 25% (or 33%) and 100%. The 25 being the obviously flimsy/weak/small blocks that should not be stopping anything from breaking through and anyone should be able to look at and say that is not going to protect me.

 

Bars were intentionally excluded because they are primary window and elevated defenses. Plates would probably move back into the 100%, but we are still discussing. Changing stuff to see what happens is what game development is about and some major changes can and do happen during experimental.

 

Thanks for the update. I was initially skeptical of the change but after looking at the affected blocks and seeing this response, it seems like the team is really thinking this through.

 

[Callum123456789]

15 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

Just curious, how come the auger starts to gradually lose block damage as it gets below 50% durability level?

i know the auger is the only one that does that ive noticed which its strange since the other tools dont

[HungryZombie]

2 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

Even with the nerf, I feel the pipe machine gun is still far too powerful compared to the other pipe weapons. I think another nerf is needed. From my feedback, but I propose these changes:

 

- A level 6 pipe machine gun currently has a damage value of 45.6 with regular bullets. I would reduce the maximum damage to 35, and go down from there as quality level decreases.
- Currently, pipe machine guns have a magazine size of 15. I would reduce this to 10.
- Their current rounds/minute is 335. I would reduce this by half, so around 160-165.
- I would double the reload time.
- Accuracy would be terrible if you hold it down fully auto. This would be alright in close combat situations but from afar or fights that require precision, it would encourage the player to single tap the weapon, or fire in small bursts.

 

In general, I also don't think pipe weapons should be able to use more advanced ammo types.

 

Do you think with these changes there would even be a desire to use pipe weapons? Would you still use it?

[Raptortwenty2]

I almost agree with more nerds Becuase they are just suppose to get you by until you find or buy a better weapon. I think it should have a chance of jamming or randomly breaks vs decreasing damage

 

[Jost Amman]

@Aldranon & @Catdaddy: sorry, but I don't understand the down-votes... it's just a joke, not a personal attack... 

[Catdaddy]

1 minute ago, Jost Amman said:

@Aldranon & @Catdaddy: sorry, but I don't understand the down-votes... it's just a joke, not a personal attack... 

Because I come here to read about the game, not forum politics and petty ego contests. I will downvote off-topic drivel when I'm in the mood, especially now that I know it bothers you. My response actually falls into that category too, but you asked. Don't worry though, it's just a joke.

[Xtrakicking]

36 minutes ago, Catdaddy said:

Because I come here to read about the game, not forum politics and petty ego contests. I will downvote off-topic drivel when I'm in the mood, especially now that I know it bothers you. My response actually falls into that category too, but you asked. Don't worry though, it's just a joke.

Goddamn, bro. Who **** in your cereal?

[Jost Amman]

58 minutes ago, Catdaddy said:

Because I come here to read about the game, not forum politics and petty ego contests.

Oh, I see, so it's what I thought. Here we go again... people masking criminality with politics.

Anyway, I'll refrain to "offend" your friends in the future...

 

Also, just to clarify, my joke was: "what do you know how breaking bulletproof glass sounds?" - I thought it was funny, actually.

Geez! People get triggered for everything nowdays.

[Tete1805]

For information, I had terrible FPS looking at the cities, even from afar, or in a POI when looking outside a window.

Setting dynamic mesh to off fixed it. (At least regarding the cities part.)

[Mechanimal]

7 hours ago, faatal said:

Already changed that today. Upgrade, repair and harvesting all scale.

 

We are still testing and thinking about these changes like many parts of the game. I'm currently leaning towards two buckets. 25% (or 33%) and 100%. The 25 being the obviously flimsy/weak/small blocks that should not be stopping anything from breaking through and anyone should be able to look at and say that is not going to protect me.

 

Bars were intentionally excluded because they are primary window and elevated defenses. Plates would probably move back into the 100%, but we are still discussing. Changing stuff to see what happens is what game development is about and some major changes can and do happen during experimental.

Nice, thanks for making an adjustment so quickly, though I fear such tweaking has just begun, that is a great start. I wasn't just concerned for how players were effected by this change, you guys just unleashed a balancing nightmare on yourselves, I feels for you all too ya know.

Took yourself from a "one and done" variable with happy players eager to build, to what could easily be a neverending series of adjustments to 1,400 individual blocks with dissapointed/confused players now stricken with build anxiety. Still got my neck brace on from the creative whiplash, lol. Anyway, hope it resolves smoothly and doesn't produce a perpetual headache, for either the devs or players. Either way I'm stickin around to find out, just glad I got to experience that one sweet week before this monkey wrench came flying in.