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Ezed

Am I cheesing?

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I see a lot of comments abut cheesing the AI pathing.  I don't consider this cheesing but am curious if others would.

 

I usually start with one of my Tier 1 Buried Treasure holes, digging that out so it slopes up.

It's the same on all 4 sides. 

Narrow bridge with a hatch which I open and close depending on where the zombies are coming from. 

Electric fences running vertically to stun them if they get close enough to the bars. 

I stand inside and pop their heads off, usually with one bullet. Greenies take a couple/few more of course.

I have a plate block placed vertically inside so crawlers, spiders and dogs can't swipe at my legs. 

Junk turret on the roof as AA for vultures.

Repairs are fairly cheap since they don't really get a chance to hit anything except the bars sometimes and some acid damage.

 

Working good so far up to day 42 horde.  It starts out as a 3x3 wood and cobblestone structure, then dig out a bit more and build out as time and resources allow.  All reinforced concrete at the moment, planning on a steel upgrade once I craft enough ingots to do it all in one go.  

 

Oh...entry is via a hatch in the roof, so Parkour is required to hop up there from one of the bridges.

 

So...cheese or no?

20200812140609_1.jpg

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I wouldn't consider this cheesing, but then, I have built similar designs in the past. 

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I have no idea.
It's not even worth worrying about right now since there are so many overlooked things.
The only thing I would say to worry about, is if you get too used to this method, and they change things, will you be willing to accept it and adapt? The likelihood of this working the way it currently does in the future is low... not only because they are actively trying to make this more challenging, but also because this is alpha and a huge number of different little things can change the results.
 
This type of build creates loops where zombies try forever to do their things but never make an inch of progress in doing so. Such loops were supposed to be remedied by random behavior so that some zombies would fall and then decide to start beating on the walls underneath. This does happen for brief moments sometimes, but not nearly enough to have any impact. If there are enough demolishers late game coming at you at once, I suppose the zombies do have at least some kind of fighting chance against you. So, if I had to say yes or no, I'm gonna say no. This is because they know about it, they've tried to do something about it, and at least in my opinion, have failed... and that's not your fault, nor mine, nor anybody else's but their own. If you enjoy it, then enjoy it while you can I guess.

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If that's a single player game then you are the one and only authority on what constitutes cheese. Or milk. Or vegetables.

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The heretic sez: there is no cheese. Did you survive? Congratulations, your base is awesome. For now. Let TFP worry about their part in this battle - your job is only to survive another day.

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You play the way you play. Some will play similar. Some will play way different. As far as I am concerned every way is legitimate. Personal preference.

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24 minutes ago, Gazz said:

If that's a single player game then you are the one and only authority on what constitutes cheese. Or milk. Or vegetables.

This.  Play exactly how the F you like. 

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Thanks all for responding.   My conscience is clear :)

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Yeh, that's no cheese.. it's a moat and a tower. Sure, there's couple things that I could see the pimps doing to make it less effective:

- have the zeds attack the base of the tower as well as the path to bars

- make the electric fence unable to pass through blocks

- give the cops a better aim / fire rate / projectile speed (or introduce some other form of better ranged threats, like.. bandits)

 

But None of those would actually break the design, so, I'd guess it's going to be pretty safe going forward.

 

And yeah, if I didn't use worse near-cheeses myself, I'd end up with something similar .. :)

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30 minutes ago, theFlu said:

Yeh, that's no cheese.. it's a moat and a tower. Sure, there's couple things that I could see the pimps doing to make it less effective:

- have the zeds attack the base of the tower as well as the path to bars

- make the electric fence unable to pass through blocks

- give the cops a better aim / fire rate / projectile speed (or introduce some other form of better ranged threats, like.. bandits)

 

But None of those would actually break the design, so, I'd guess it's going to be pretty safe going forward.

 

And yeah, if I didn't use worse near-cheeses myself, I'd end up with something similar .. :)

Been thinking of doing something about the same, but I think I'll build some walls away from the kill base with choke points to bring the cops into my kill zone, and shotgun turrets for those pesky vultures.

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37 minutes ago, Darthjake said:

Been thinking of doing something about the same, but I think I'll build some walls away from the kill base with choke points to bring the cops into my kill zone, and shotgun turrets for those pesky vultures.

Mmmm...the wall choke points are a good idea.  I think I'll rip that off :)  

 

Have never used turrets or traps with it yet other that the AA on the roof.  As seen on my hotbar, I don't use Shotguns at all...I hate the way they destroy blocks so easily.  Won't the Shotgun turrets do collateral base damage too?  

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1 minute ago, Ezed said:

I don't use Shotguns at all...I hate the way they destroy blocks so easily.  Won't the Shotgun turrets do collateral base damage too?

Agree, don't care for the players Shotguns taking out blocks.

 

Good question. No idea if they've changed Shotgun Turrets block damage.

 

Used to be they basically did no damage to blocks. I've often put Iron Bars in front of turrets and they've never taken damage.

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It's all about the fight, IMO. If you can just afk through horde night because of the design of your base, then it's cheese. I don't mean traps and turrets grinding up everything before it gets to you, I mean the AI having literally no chance of breaching your base because it doesn't understand how. If it knows how, but just can't - due to your active fighting or clever trap placement - then it's all clean.

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Posted (edited)

Why does that matter? Even if it is MP, it doesn´t matter tbh. Unless you desperatly need appreciation from others for beeing a "pro". As long as you don´t cheat, everything is fair that the game allows you to do.

Edited by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)
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Thou shall call cheese what thou make of it and none other shall sample thou cheese nor reap thine benefits.

 

1:1 Cheesesis

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4 minutes ago, eXSe said:

Thou shall call cheese what thou make of it and none other shall sample thou cheese nor reap thine benefits.

It is certain that you are not speaking of Fromunda cheese.

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1 hour ago, FileMachete said:

Agree, don't care for the players Shotguns taking out blocks.

 

Good question. No idea if they've changed Shotgun Turrets block damage.

 

Used to be they basically did no damage to blocks. I've often put Iron Bars in front of turrets and they've never taken damage.

That's why I point them up, to get the birds as they try to swoop in on me.  I can snipe the ones puking stuff.

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6 hours ago, Gazz said:

If that's a single player game then you are the one and only authority on what constitutes cheese. Or milk. Or vegetables.

Broken glass is a vegetable.

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Rest assured; if it allows you to survive horde night, TFP will try to break it in the next update.

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38 minutes ago, Dracula said:

Rest assured; if it allows you to survive horde night, TFP will try to break it in the next update.

Exaggeration. If they consider it cheese, they might try to fix it in the next update or several updates later.
In general, I would say that if you can make something where you could simply sit back and give minimal effort for the duration of the horde, then it's probably going to get fixed. Examples:
Dig a hole 3 blocks deep and place a block on your head. - fixed A17
Surround your base with a sea of wooden spikes - fixed A17
Surround your base with steep wedge tip ramps. - fixed A19

Several more like these still exist and will likely get patched, They said they are working on these things, people should not ignore it.
If you like doing that kind of stuff, fine. Nobody is going to stop you. But like I said I before... if you choose to use such methods, you'd better be willing to accept it and adapt because it will most likely change on you.

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46 minutes ago, AtomicUs5000 said:

Nobody is going to stop you

TFP are going to stop you.

 

They take an aggressive stance towards avoiding the horde; never understood why.  I think they've gone too far with redone AI, digging/swimming zombies, etc.

 

I don't particularly care about it; but they sure seem to.

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13 hours ago, Maharin said:

Broken glass is a vegetable.

Kinda burns going down though.  :)

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Dracula said:

TFP are going to stop you.

 

They take an aggressive stance towards avoiding the horde; never understood why.  I think they've gone too far with redone AI, digging/swimming zombies, etc.

 

I don't particularly care about it; but they sure seem to.

What I meant is, nobody is going to stop you from playing that way in the current version.
In order to understand why, you would have to look at things from the perspective of the developers. Imagine spending 10 years working on some game. You're making puzzles to solve, enemies to defeat, impressive and unique game mechanics. This is your soul, your pride and joy, all of your effort and expertise brought to fruition in a single project and you can't wait to show the world all that you have done. Someone starts up the game, digs three blocks down, places a block on their head, and says "I win"

Edited by AtomicUs5000 (see edit history)
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4 minutes ago, ElCabong said:

I got tired of the day 7 hordes and turned it off

I can't imagine trying to level without horde night.  :o

 

Not sure what's going to happen when these Demolisher's start showing up.  Haven't seen one in game ever.  I expect I'll die...

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