NukemDed Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Well your sadness is 500 people's joy. Farming sucked, now its finally great. Press e to collect and its gold. I LOVE this. irl I have a swingblade sawmill I got specifically to cut logs into timber to build masses of raised gardens so i can garden forever as i get old and stiff and sore. f**k crawling around on my hands and knees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odetta Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Loads but I'm trying to get the guys to make them all dead crops for this very reason. Maybe one or two living plants among the dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLOWN Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 You sir, have made a very good point. I care to damn much is my problem. If I didn't care I would go to great lengths to explain why we do what we do. and we do appreciate it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannedSmeef Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 But... Why? Food is not an issue. Farming is not a necessity. Except on servers. And on servers, which is where I spend the majority of my time, farming was never "too complex". I know food isn't an issue (actually it might, maybe they changed food drop rates), I'm just saying farming is going to be an earlier thing now. Which I like, actually. I really don't get why subverting a complex process for a simpler more instant one is a problem. It's like when they changed farming in A17 to no longer need fertilizer, just a perk. It's more elegant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Krunch Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 I see you guys are having a blast here on farms and wilderness spawns, but Ive got a different question. Will the file structure for individual maps in the worlds folder be kept the same in 18? I like to do custom maps and Im just wondering if the methods Im currently using are going to be no good. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 With all due respect you are going to have to be patient, TFP is getting murdered by 18 so we're making adjustments that might sound horrendous out of context. Nightmare will out run you someday, but there are some larger tech changes to fix that. I hate to be this guy (I really do), but maybe lower the difficulty settings? ...I don't know how much the team gets to play long games... I can't imagine your testers do because they're constantly wiping and starting over to test, and you devs have been some busy damn beavers, and you've said yourself this is YOUR longest game (which is great!), so I guess my question is, *shouldn't* they be getting rekt? Isn't learning what works and what doesn't part of the fun? You said so yourself when people were giving you gameplay tips... The wolf thing I get... It happens, rarely, but it happens... I don't think you should change it, but I get it... But making a hoe (your argument) is the same as making any other tool... All of them, in fact... and the rest of farming is just common sense, AND already works that way in Minecraft... And I've *never* built a farm in game, but recognize the import of keeping it complex. ...am curious what the technical issue is on run speeds though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 I know food isn't an issue (actually it might, maybe they changed food drop rates), I'm just saying farming is going to be an earlier thing now. Which I like, actually. I really don't get why subverting a complex process for a simpler more instant one is a problem. It's like when they changed farming in A17 to no longer need fertilizer, just a perk. It's more elegant. Making it accessible early is actually the problem. Servers, where food IS an issue (and should be) will no longer have to work hard for food. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLOWN Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 I hate to be this guy (I really do), but maybe lower the difficulty settings? ...I don't know how much the team gets to play long games... I can't imagine your testers do because they're constantly wiping and starting over to test, and you devs have been some busy damn beavers, and you've said yourself this is YOUR longest game (which is great!), so I guess my question is, *shouldn't* they be getting rekt? Isn't learning what works and what doesn't part of the fun? You said so yourself when people were giving you gameplay tips... The wolf thing I get... It happens, rarely, but it happens... I don't think you should change it, but I get it... But making a hoe (your argument) is the same as making any other tool... All of them, in fact... and the rest of farming is just common sense, AND already works that way in Minecraft... And I've *never* built a farm in game, but recognize the import of keeping it complex. ...am curious what the technical issue is on run speeds though. i think earlier release of a experimental builds would solve a lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grymgem Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 The only difference is how you prepare the ground for planting. Farming is .00001% of the game, I don't see the big deal. Food is one of two essential resources in game. It's tied to both health and stamina. It's acquisition should never be trivial imho. As a farmer I can tell you it's not always easy to coax food out of the ground. If feeding yourself in the apocalypse is either an afterthought while looting, or .00001% of the game, it seems a disservice to a mechanic your team designed. Perhaps food is detached from health, and simply gives status effects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Survager Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Forge is also too difficult for beginners. Why wait until everything is melted down? I remember how many times I was asked how the forge works. There are many videos on YouTube explaining this process. Let's make iron ingots, shovels, axes and picks by simply mixing clay and iron ore in a forge. Let's simplify the process here too. MM, don't read this please! This could be a dangerous idea =) MM, if you read it, do not ban me please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted September 12, 2019 Author Share Posted September 12, 2019 I get the sense that TFP wants farming to be more accessible and early in the game, which I agree with since apparently early game is much, much longer. Farming isn't going to get you that dream zombie killing base and m60s or tunnel to china, it will help keep you fed however. Unless you buy living off the land 3 ranks you aren't producing all the main seeds yet. You'll be scrounging for seeds and building that farm one plot at a time. I really enjoyed farming and only bought one rank to increase my harvest by one, but enjoyed finding seeds and growing my farm that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted September 12, 2019 Author Share Posted September 12, 2019 We have joined servers. We have played on servers. Have you? Maybe this is a good point to listen to your players... I tried to think of a way to word that so that it did not come off as a****** ish but I was unsuccessful. I don't mean it to be assholish. I'm playing the game every day for months, and did some late game balancing as you can see in my vids. MP is way too easy so I prefer SP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUST2DEATH Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 We paid you for an unfinished game so have at least the decency to listen to the community... Just to give you a heads up, I have another account on this forum...just saying... I love it when people out themselves for breaking ToS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingSlayerGM Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 I love it when people out themselves for breaking ToS... lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannedSmeef Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 I'd like to put in my two cents here on this whole debacle about making the game "dumbed down" and how it's removing the soul. I've done quite a bit of reading on game design and I've seen a lot of different developers talk about their craft. One thing they all have in common is wanting to achieve elegance. Simply put, elegance is a feature that is not only effective, but it's also simple in design. Making things more simple is not a bad thing, and if done correctly it can actually improve a feature. Let's look at the farming system for instance. Back in earlier alphas, you needed to find/craft a hoe (you probably won't find one for a while and you need metal production to make one, which has its own steps), till dirt, loot around for some fertilizer/buy one from a trader/gather a ton of ingredients to make it yourself, upgrade it by right clicking it while having said fertilizer, and then you could finally plant your food for a nice farm. That's a lot of steps for something that is as essential as food production in a survival game. Currently in A17 the farming system is find/craft a hoe (you probably won't find one for a while and you need metal production to make one, which has its own steps), till dirt, plant the seed, and buy a couple of perks. Already this is much simpler, we just got the same result but cut out an arduous process in favor of something more intuitive. It's more immediately understood when someone tells you "oh if you want to grow food just put some points in this perk" Now in A18 the farming system is craft a plot, place it, plant it, and buy a couple of perks. This is much more elegant than where we started, now if you wanna start a farm you just type "farm plot" and it tells you exactly what you need. No guide to metal smelting, no guide to fertilizer production, just a box and some perks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted September 12, 2019 Author Share Posted September 12, 2019 I would make ALL the crops on the RWG maps dead. Navez too. But with a rare chance to drop 1 of that crop. How cool would that be?. I think all we have is dead corn textures/models. Honestly in MP that stuff is gone after a few days so its probably not worth any more effort, food will never be a big element in this game once you get set up, we've had this discussion 20 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Making it accessible early is actually the problem. Servers, where food IS an issue (and should be) will no longer have to work hard for food. So it sounds like the solution is food spoilage... -A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillls Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Didn't we patch that in 17? Its not gated now at all for sure. No but I will check again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechanicalLens Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Ok mr back seat game designer. TFP unanimously loves the new farming system, and that is a first. Farming is .000001% of the game, who cares? The game is way harder than its ever been, so us lowering the biome zombie count is taken out of content. Since when are a few guys in the biomes a threat? All they do is lower performance and nag at you when you are trying to clear a poi you get sandwiched by 20 guys that followed you for 5 miles. Now its only 10 guys sandwiching you. The game is harder now for undisclosed reasons, so you'll probably thank us for these changes when your getting 60fps and having fun for the first time in 5 years. Well, personally, I love the idea of planter boxes. They look so clean and semi-modern. While it's sad to see the old traditional way of farming and the garden hoe going away, we will all move on. It's like the Doctor in Doctor Who - a new Doctor comes along, everyone despises them, and then they slowly become attached to them until they are replaced by someone else. It's a never-ending cycle. Regarding this change to farming, expect some backlash, but at the end of the day, I suspect that 95% of people will prefer this way of farming to the old one. And press "e" to pick up crops again, I hear? YES PLEASE! Admittedly, I was initially confused over the removal of cans of water. I felt like it was removing an immersive part of the game, until I realized... I have never actually used a can of water. Ever. And I can't name anyone who has. So its removal is no biggie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted September 12, 2019 Author Share Posted September 12, 2019 agree 100% the game has lost all that has made it unique and kept players around for endless hours i got 2400 hours i remember before A17 thinking WOOO HOO i am going to break 3K hours i really hope A18 brings me back but from what i am seeing probably not i may never make to that 3K the way things are going I think 18 will do it. If not then it will take some mods in a few years to win you over probably, because 18 is the direction we're going with. Its rekindled the game for the devs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUST2DEATH Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 So it sounds like the solution is food spoilage... -A will nobody think of the poor cpu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallenbox Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 @madmole Hey remember the last time the community was complaining big and you were defending the game? yeah, that was when A17 happened... "a17 skil system is the best ever and you are going to love it" yeah, right... Do you know the real reason people are complaining about farming? because you are changing the soul of this game. It used to be a complex survival game and now its turning into a dumb shooter. You keep simplifying, and cutting things. Will this increase the player base? maybe, but be careful not to be too similar to the other 1000 zombie games.. Reducing zombie spawns in the wild is very bad. The day that sleepers were added was the worst day ever for the development of this game. Damn, those mf sleepers! You removed cities spawns and you are constantly decreasing zombies outside. Nobody wants that. NOBODY. You should increase zombies outside. Yeah, keep writing excuses like "it is a bad design", "you get sandwiched", "you dont see em anyway", "sleepers are more fun".. this is all bs that you tell yourself. The real reason, the only reason, is performance gains.. I don't know, we were told that a18 had much higher fps than a17, but apparently not, great.. Totally agree, wondering how they would expect the game to be more fun by taking features off, really excited to play A18 tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLOWN Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 I think 18 will do it. If not then it will take some mods in a few years to win you over probably, because 18 is the direction we're going with. Its rekindled the game for the devs. i see how much fun you are having and it is giving me hope you are pretty entertaining to watch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieHorde Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Indeed. My daughter just started her last year of college, gets almost all A's and considers half the courses, teachers and students to be horrible. The other half is meh. Probably gets it from her genius father then. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted September 12, 2019 Author Share Posted September 12, 2019 I really like the sound of the new farming boxes. It was always a pain to find or make a hoe, i seem to have the worst luck and never find one so use to have to spend points and make one. Then find a spot to farm just so annoying. I think the new boxes are a great addition and make it a little bit more easier. Keep up the awesome work Guys Your welcome. Everyone will forget all about it once Conventional Ralston is cracked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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