Guppycur Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Nope, sorry I can't find one and I'm starving. How do I craft a hoe? If farming is your only method of getting food then you're playing the game wrong. What you doing is removing different options of playstyle, you're not solving a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillls Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 You mean fix what is already there? Were you planning to add more sounds to animals like the wolf so you could hear them as the charge you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrough Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 I don't think you understand the significance of what the hoe represents. It represents progress. It represents the ability to complete many tasks in fulfillment of a goal. It means that you can't hit a farm, grab the corn, and be farming on day 1. Dumbing down farming to "craft a block" means farming isn't a challenge. Do you want this to be a game that challengers players? Right now I it seems the answer is no. Answer this: who are you designing this game for? Are you looking to make a quick buck from a casual player who is going to put in 20 hours before they go back to Fortnite? Or are you gearing the game for a 1000 hour player who buys copies for their friends and recommends it to everyone they meet? Are there any games which you have played for 1000s of hours and still play full vanilla? They're not selling us the base game- it's also a framework on which to build what we want and this is a framework which isn't available from any other games I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarzthor Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 "Everyone" doesn't include your players obviously You're not "everyone" and neither is your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillls Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 You still need nitrate, clay and rotten flesh to make a farm plot. So find a mine, get a pickaxe etc. Maybe one less clutter item is needed but its still fairly deep and involved to get it going, and finding seeds is fun. I took pride in creating my farm one plot at a time as I found seeds as I didn't want to waste perks on seed crafting. Ok, so were do you find seed? Do I find them in loot or in the wild? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrough Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Ok, so were do you find seed? Do I find them in loot or in the wild? This is turning into "how is babby plant formed" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trekkan Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Why? Even with zero farming I acquire a giant stockpile of food. Do you just want to be unsuccessful at farming? You want to waste time and see your crops fail, then laugh your way to the fridge and feast on whatever you want in your food box? Sounds like farming should be more useful and the looted food less plentiful. Or, just get rid of farming... (no, I don't want you to). But to me, its a part of the game. Keeping my fellow survivors fed, so we can stay healthy, fight more and loot more. But, if you have plenty of food without farming... there isn't much point to the entire mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Sounds like farming should be more useful and the looted food less plentiful. Or, just get rid of farming... (no, I don't want you to). But to me, its a part of the game. Keeping my fellow survivors fed, so we can stay healthy, fight more and loot more. But, if you have plenty of food without farming... there isn't much point to the entire mechanic. Just need to add food spoilage... -A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Survager Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 When have biome zombies ever been a threat (outside of the wasteland)? On difficulty Insain + Always run, I suppose =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted September 12, 2019 Author Share Posted September 12, 2019 So, grindier. Not harder. Biiiig difference. What was the value add in removing a boiled in a can water recipe? Low on XML space? Some fps issue? Visual bug? ...seems you've put more effort in removing it than leaving it in. Food is has *never* been an issue in this game. And what tsbx said is true... If you want a nice ocd box to plant it, you build it. It is a crafting game. No its not grindy. Its amazing because you aren't skipping over huge amounts of content. You can smell the roses of every incremental growth in the gear you acquire instead of skipping over two armors and going straight to steel you find various pieces and with random stats its like oh cool this piece is a little better than my last. I must have upgraded my armor a dozen times or more, and my guns of choice many times instead of going brown, yellow, blue or pink and being done. Now there is always a better item if you keep looting and the pacing is way better. You appreciate everything a lot more now. A perk is a meaningful choice because it only happens once an hour, instead of 12 levels an hour like before. But you can specialize early and have so many options to make your player build without buying perks that its just so much better. The cans? Just clunk. Whats wrong with boiling slow in a jar vs boiling slow in a can? You can cook charred meat on a campfire so you should be able to cook basic water as well, and cans were just a sharp stick. It takes 4x longer to boil without and feels good to me, but whatever I'm only having more fun than I've ever had at this game, what the hell do I know vs some random fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomaana Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 If this starts a ♥♥♥♥ storm I'm going to ban everyone or close the forums down. You can no longer boil water in a can. You can simply boil water from a jar of murky water now without a cooking pot, but it takes 4x as long as with a cooking pot. Why? More sharp sticks. Only veterans knew about the canned water trick and it was only useful on a really bad day where you couldn't find a cooking pot. So we removed cans of water and you can just boil jars of water now. One way to do things is best. That is the exact opposite of true. The more ways to do things the better. It is only better from a programming standpoint in that it is easier to maintain but from a gameplay standpoint? Nope. Not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gronk Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Nope, try explaining it to someone with one breath. If I can explain a farming mechanic in a single breath it has been under engineered, over simplified or dumbed down too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomaana Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Why? Even with zero farming I acquire a giant stockpile of food. Do you just want to be unsuccessful at farming? You want to waste time and see your crops fail, then laugh your way to the fridge and feast on whatever you want in your food box? Sounds like a major food balance issue. If food is never scarce and not hard to get or farm then why have it in the game? It is just an annoying mouse click from time to time at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted September 12, 2019 Author Share Posted September 12, 2019 Don't kid yourself, he's got several hundred thousand downloads. 10 million? No. But his fan base is nothing to sneeze at. That's great, but what the hell does vanilla have to do with what he's doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted September 12, 2019 Author Share Posted September 12, 2019 lol. I like the idea of not having to depend on a pot to boil water, thanks. Even the former Captain Obvious understands. Some people don't like change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted September 12, 2019 Author Share Posted September 12, 2019 Getting the perks to be a decent farmer, digging out the farm, expanding it, and harvesting hundreds of plants takes a little more than 5 seconds every 3 days. Ok, so what I'm understanding is that basically you just craft pre-tilled soil in your inventory and then place it and it becomes auto-flattened tilled soil that you then plant seeds in like normal? That sounds at least a bit better than I thought. I was seeing wooden boxes on legs that would take one plant each, like in the non voxel games. Glad I was mistaken. Will we still be able to fertilize these new blocks? They are crafted from clay, rotten flesh and a fair bit of nitrate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrough Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 That is the exact opposite of true. The more ways to do things the better. It is only better from a programming standpoint in that it is easier to maintain but from a gameplay standpoint? Nope. Not even close. To me this means more freedom early game. Day 1 was ALWAYS "go find cooking pot". Now I have the freedom to put off seeking out kitchens and cabinets in favor of doing something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannedSmeef Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 What is happening, like seriously. The farming system itself hasn't changed, it's just the method of getting fertile blocks. An arguably much less annoying method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted September 12, 2019 Author Share Posted September 12, 2019 O.o whats up with all the hate. I play on insane difficulty Imho The amount of zombies outside the pois matters little to none. Not once have i felt that they add anything to the game. Most of the time i just run past them during the day and if i feel ballsy during the night, otherwise its stealthing past them which is just tidious. So maybe in this case less is more? I dont understand how farming change is such a big deal. Farming in 7dtd have never been that developed. (No need for water, unless modded). You still need fertilizer and seeds, its just tilling thats gone, and well i guess its a problem for those who love repetitive actions... Since when did water cans impact survival. It literally takes only half a day to find a pot if you are unlucky, which isnt enough to make you thirsty, and there is a high chance youll have a couple bottles of water by then. So boiling without pot takes 4x times seems fair to me Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUST2DEATH Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 That's great, but what the hell does vanilla have to do with what he's doing? I do believe the point being made is despite the simplification of many systems, there is a large number of users that prefer more complexity to their game despite whatever metrics you are following. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted September 12, 2019 Author Share Posted September 12, 2019 You don't need caption obvious to tell you that you really set yourself up there. lol It was a trick question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomaana Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 Nope, try explaining it to someone with one breath. Hoe ground plant seed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trekkan Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 One of the things we've done when we (my group) plays is people tend to have roles in the game. So one or two people are the primary farmers and the rest supplement the food stores with looted food. My point is that people play the game different than MM plays it, mostly, multiplayer. I'm not even sure MM has played MP (with any real time spent that way). Which, I think the general comments from the forum members are coming from a multiplayer perspective. From MM's perspective, why sit there and farm food, he's out looting food and is getting enough for himself. Which is great on a SP game. But my personal experience is that most people aren't playing SP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomaana Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 You look out for your 3000 fans and I'll look out for our 10 million customers. You got those 10 million customers with those other things IN the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted September 12, 2019 Share Posted September 12, 2019 No its not grindy. Its amazing because you aren't skipping over huge amounts of content. You can smell the roses of every incremental growth in the gear you acquire instead of skipping over two armors and going straight to steel you find various pieces and with random stats its like oh cool this piece is a little better than my last. I must have upgraded my armor a dozen times or more, and my guns of choice many times instead of going brown, yellow, blue or pink and being done. Now there is always a better item if you keep looting and the pacing is way better. You appreciate everything a lot more now. A perk is a meaningful choice because it only happens once an hour, instead of 12 levels an hour like before. But you can specialize early and have so many options to make your player build without buying perks that its just so much better. The cans? Just clunk. Whats wrong with boiling slow in a jar vs boiling slow in a can? You can cook charred meat on a campfire so you should be able to cook basic water as well, and cans were just a sharp stick. It takes 4x longer to boil without and feels good to me, but whatever I'm only having more fun than I've ever had at this game, what the hell do I know vs some random fan Calling Guppy a "random fan" is a greater insult than you might realize. He's one of the dozens of talented individuals which are going to take this big pile of crap you're about to drop on us and turn it into something respectable. Thanks Guppy. Thanks Khaine. Thanks Dwall. Thanks Jax. And thanks to all the other modders who put in the time and effort to make this game playable, challenging, and fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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