Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[Dimpy]

There is a certain threshold though, where the labor of base repair and ammo production to stop the horde becomes well more labor than fun. How to solve that?

A series of defenses that have progressively higher upfront costs, but lower maintenance/ammo costs. This also adds more long term planning to the game and gives a goal of creating a sustainable fortress.

 

I get that there were issues with log spikes, but I really liked how choosing log spikes vs regular spikes felt like a choice between improving my ability to survive short term vs long term.

[Sigil_Thane]

To add to SnowDog: A body builder cannot also be a jockey. What if he wants to be both?

 

He should get into elephant racing.

[Thecolours]

We are planning repair and defend quests where players can repair some walls of a fort, then a horde comes and you defend the settler. If the settler survives you get a nice reward from a trader, as this settlement is important to their faction goals, or the settler gave his money to the trader to find someone, so you get paid after the deed is done rather than kill the settler and take the prize.

 

Oh, hell yeah. I've been wanting this forever. So glad it's coming.

[Thecolours]

With level gates removed if you specialize in combat you get very powerful faster than you can find a decent weapon to use that power with. It needed to be slowed so you could actually smell the coffee instead of inhale it and be at the finish line. It levels about like Skyrim/Fallout now about 7 levels in the first 3 hours, 3 in the the next, and around 1 level every hour or two for a while. If you actively farm XP it would be more. Level 50 is very powerful now. With slower leveling you tend to get a chance to feel every stage of the game more, before I'd have 5-15 points sitting around unspent, now I want to use them as they come in because I feel like I need them and want them.

 

It was never intended to have 300 levels its legacy crap. Eventually we'll put a level cap in probably and make people re-start to get every perk.

 

All turrets in A18 give some XP, (if you are near) but spikes will not.

 

Its not farming at all. I play the game and level up. People who farm and want to get to x level are creating their own hell with game stage getting too high IMO. Its a good pace now where you will find decent gear to deal with the impending doom that is coming, if you level too fast or make poor perk choices you will have to deal with it. Its not our fault, you got greedy and spread yourself too thin, specialize and do well, like other RPGs.

 

That said there is an xp slider.

 

I'm assuming blade traps and electric fences will give xp as well?

[Viktoriusiii]

[...]

 

While I absolutely hate that level cap idea, since 7d2d is not an rpg you generally restart to see different endings and make different choices... at least it isn't currently (with npcs and a bit more radiant world that will change) since it doesn't add anything, since you are artificially handycapped to become a master of all (I mean you can be a master of all in fallout, don't you?). Most people never even get there... but the thought that I will not even be able to even if I put the time into it is disheartening.

Levelcaps in RPGs are... basicially unheard of.

Most have some unofficial level cap (like non respawning enemies like gothic/gothic2/gothic3; skills beeing maxed like skyrim and oblivion) but I don't think I know of any game where you can not learn all the things, that isn't either a linear RPG or a Multiplayer game where balance is an issue.

 

Having to restart just to get a different playstyle is... very unappealing to me and as far as I can tell, to a lot of people.

You worked so hard for your base, for your weapons and all... now throw all that away to be able to use a sledgehammer instead of a bow?

Dunno... doesn't sound appealing to me and I KNOW no multiplayer players like this. Because that is not how multiplayer works

 

But that turrets give some XP is great! With that I feel MUCH more inclined to actually use them, even if they waste a bit of ammo. Simply because that makes it easier to kill the Z's.

 

 

XP slider is nice for single player... but try finding a server with your specific settings

Don't get me wrong I don't want fast progress (rolmod makes it A LOT slower, since you only get ~1-3 skillpoints a day)

I just think that the more is "locked" behind perks, the more those perks are desirable. And if there is a way to get them faster than by regular play, that WILL be exploited. This has nothing to do with "min/maxers". It is basic psychology. You want what makes you better/more efficient.

 

 

In rolmod, there is no way to get it faster. Only surviving. Which makes surviving your number 1 priority with all that it entales.

Deaths mean something now. But as long as there is a way to "grind" xp, people will do it. Not because it is fun, but because the "goal" of the game is to get better/more efficient.

[Roland]

It is if there are perks that make you better with sniper riles than a noob on day one. You guys have no idea what an RPG is.

 

I see now how you are defining RPG and what a “role” is so I agree that 7 Days is an RPG as you’ve described one. I think that a scripted story has been so closely associated with RPGs in the past that this is where the confusion comes in. 7 Days is an unscripted RPG where the player creates their own stories as they develop and grow. It’s like reality TV compared to scripted shows. And in PvP you can even “vote someone off the island”...

[Phoenixshade35]

One thing i miss and wish was an option was an error before lol, it was back in A16 experimental I believe that once zombies detected you, they followed you across the map till you killed them, it really brought terror and fear at how long would it take for them to get you, i believe you guys were experimenting with the breadcrumb idea, Madmole or Roland, do you think that would be a neat option for people to add to their game at their own whim? I know i would use it, would make clearing areas out more pressing for me, what does everyone else think?

[madmole]

I'm assuming blade traps and electric fences will give xp as well?

 

All but spikes.

[Viktoriusiii]

All but spikes.

I HAVE BEEN HEARD BY THE TFP GODS!!!

 

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?65918-QUESTION-Do-traps-give-you-the-kill-XP-for-zombies

[Blake_]

Inconvenience millions of people because you lack no self control? If anything we'll do a startup arg like --nodm so you don't have a console, but by default it will be on.

 

But of course!. I only ask for the option to completely remove it before the game starts. When creating the new map. Leave it as is for default of course as long as we have the option for NEVER seing the console ever. It never bothered me in Skyriwindblivion. But in this game... well.... CHEESY thoughts when boredom kicks in. And I like my sins as an option.

[Roland]

I HAVE BEEN HEARD BY THE TFP GODS!!!

 

I think that the Ark, Rust, Conan, Subnautica, Empyrion, and Forest gods can probably hear you, Vik...

 

But congrats on a win. You were due.

[OzHawkeye]

I think that the Ark, Rust, Conan, Subnautica, Empyrion, and Forest gods can probably hear you, Vik...

 

But congrats on a win. You were due.

 

It'll be interesting to see how TFP handle the XP assignment issues that could come up in MP with this, eg, does the builder get the XP, does the placer get it, is it simply assigned to whomever was closest when the Zombie died, is it shared etc etc.

[Odetta]

It'll be interesting to see how TFP handle the XP assignment issues that could come up in MP with this, eg, does the builder get the XP, does the placer get it, is it simply assigned to whomever was closest when the Zombie died, is it shared etc etc.

 

You get exp based on how romantically involved you are with said trap. So it pays to wine and dine.

[PO_Man_3849]

You get exp based on how romantically involved you are with said trap. So it pays to wine and dine.

 

I wouldn't suggest being romantically involved with a blade trap then, the old saying of "an inch more I'd be a king, an inch less I'd be a queen" comes to mind.

[SDgamer]

Is it to much to ask for these kind of weapons, tools and armor to be added or re-added into the game later down the line of alpha 18 or maybe in 19 once you guys at FunPimps are ready for it?

 

1. Scrap Metal Tools (Axe, Pick, Shovel, Hammer, Wrench, and Garden Hoe)

2. New Scrap Metal Weapons (Knife and pipe guns of sort)

3. Animal Hide Clothes/Armor (To help with the snow biomes)

 

If you guys think this can work for future builds, please make it where you don't need a workbench. Modders have these things in there mods (except for the Animal Hide stuff) and i don't see how it can be an issue.

[Jost Amman]

This is role playing. Maybe you do it for a challenge, but it can be rewarding playing as a character who has certain beliefs. You can RP a biker who likes to party, and if you don't have beer or whiskey you won't go home for the night. You keep looting because you need to get drunk to calm your nerves so you can rest. You won't kill bikers because you know them, so you can only use traps on them. You wear all the biker gear, and would only drive a bike. Decorate your base like the Sons of Anarchy base.

 

My point is RP is fun and adds many legs to a game that would otherwise feel boring as hell. I got bored with Skyrim and got to thinking why am I bored. I pondered it for a couple of hours and I realized the game was controlling me like a robot. I was doing every quest it said, eating whatever food I had, playing like a survivor instead of someone I'd never done before. So I came up with being an artifact collector who only eats fish and stews, only wears hide armor or leather at best. I couldn't survive on charred venison any more and had to find all these ingredients for the foods my character likes to eat. I stopped looting everyone's armor to sell because I'm only interested in artifacts. I used to hate caves and ruins, but now this character thrives on them because that is the best chance of finding an artifact. Suddenly I found myself immersed again and used skills/perks I'd never used much in the game before and was having a blast. Its like trying to direct a good movie and making the choice the character would make, not what you would make. Fun stuff if you can get into it. Its taken me years to get half decent at it finally but it really is interesting once you get half good at coming up with a back story and playing the character accordingly. It creates new interesting challenges. Maybe you fear spiders so you don't fight them and run every time or use traps on them.

 

Anyhow these are just some Skyrim ideas, but can apply to 7 days and make the game interesting for everyone. Not being able to eat charred meat or needing beer, etc with some self imposed rules can go a long ways in adding new value to the game and see it in a new light. Of course once we get factions in it will be easier but a lot can be done now if a person gets creative.

That's actually an excellent idea!

But it mustn't be only a players RP thing IMO.

 

It makes me think of an old RPG system called GURPS which used also negative traits or "habits" during character creation so that you could get some points to invest on other things you wanted more...

 

Here's a basic manual I found on-line so you can get an idea, it's very useful and can be adapted to ANY game:

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/3e/gurpslite.pdf

 

Here's the wiki page with more info:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GURPS

 

All this could be integrated into the game to some extent...

[Viktoriusiii]

I think that the Ark, Rust, Conan, Subnautica, Empyrion, and Forest gods can probably hear you, Vik...

 

But congrats on a win. You were due.

 

Never really cared about those. And the few times I did, they didn't. (Ark flyers and Subnautica option to mod the game)

I mean... its a small win, but at this point, I take it Anything that gives me hope

 

 

It'll be interesting to see how TFP handle the XP assignment issues that could come up in MP with this, eg, does the builder get the XP, does the placer get it, is it simply assigned to whomever was closest when the Zombie died, is it shared etc etc.

 

there is already an owner beeing set as soon as you place it down.

It is the same person that has placed down the landclaim.

And I suppose everyone that is marked as "friend" gets the xp.

[Ouch Quit It]

I want to do some alchemy A19 and come up with a nice list of effects and ingredients.

 

Here is where you should be able to make ethanol(bio fuel) to make a flame trap or flame thrower .....better molotovs with a bigger range, etc.

 

Finding old scuba tanks or canisters to make a backpack for flamethrower.

 

Are underwater breathing apparatus every going to make it in? so we can swim in the larger lakes or the flooded parts of a POI?

 

Maybe a way to refill the old scuba tanks.

 

What about small windmills for power? Maybe a portable one to light up a small house ?

[Dagzambie]

Was watching season 3 of stranger things and that big Russian guy looks a LOT like Arnold, like he could do his stunts for him, even sounds like Arnold a bit. I was cracking Arnold imitations of him while we watched him chase them "I'm ova here, kill me, come one" lol. I always wanted to do a lets play 7 days with arnold where I pretend I'm Arnold play 7 days and mod in special abilities, it would be hilarious. One punch doors and zeds, and crack one liners.

 

[Aldranon]

 

I'm curious, if you do not enjoy engaging the horde why not turn of horde night instead of suffering all the repair work in the morning. Unless it's purely the challenge of passive defenses preventing a breach?

 

I've thought about it, but there is some fun in ignoring a threat by building a non-gimmicked stronghold and seeing if *this* time, they overrun you.

 

The quests are not bad, but it would be a bit too simplistic for me right now if that's all the game was. I have stopped playing and I'm back to playing war games. Hearts of Iron 4 has many mods and I'm playing a zombie mod now, I'm currently playing as the zombie "overlord". It's 1937 and America is my only threat now as the Soviet Union is beginning weaken.

[ecv]

Yeps. Called godmode. Allready an option. Whats the prob?

 

Cheers

 

It's usually not enabled for regular players. That's just as useless as saying, just type killall every 10 seconds to get rid of the hordes.

Always beware of people who are against choices only because they themselves don't believe in them...

All the good games that lasted for years and decades had exactly that: choices.

Some even spawned new breeds of games. Only because the engine allowed it.

 

So personally, I don't care if your force people to take part in hordes. Implement a minimum kill rate and punish people for not getting the quota. You know, for not surviving hard enough.

But make it either an option to turn off, or at least make it possible to mod it out.

 

Nothing the pimps do today in terms of content and mechanics will matter in two years time, the option to have options however will be crucial imo.

[ecv]

Godmode is only available in single player or if you are admin on the server. However, as a single player you already have the option to completely disable the horde or temporarily disable the zombies if you only want to skip one bloodmoon.

 

On a server you have fewer options. You can log out and hope that the horde is over when you log back in but there is no guarantee for that. As far as I know the time on the server stops when the last player has logged out.

 

A suggestion of the developers was to rent a safe place for the horde at the trade. In this case it would be good if the server operator had the possibility to set the price in the server setting. On a PvP server you could set the prices high and on a Co-Op server you could set the prices low.

 

The safe place won't do much good if the last player logs out during the bm. The server will then stay empty until the admin wakes up and forwards time.

There needs to be a way to skip hordes for regular players. On every server I've played on or ran myself, empty servers in the middle of bm are an issue.

 

Nobody wants to log in during a bm on an empty server because the zombies start attacking immediately. No way to prepare, and now not even the possibility to jump on a jeep and flee? Why does anyone care if a player skips a hordenight. I really don't get it. There's like 100 hordenights during a game. Why should skipping a few of them matter?

 

What are we surviving for if we can't change our situation for the better and forever and always have to stay vigilant? It makes no sense to me

[Drunkwolf]

The safe place won't do much good if the last player logs out during the bm. The server will then stay empty until the admin wakes up and forwards time.

There needs to be a way to skip hordes for regular players. On every server I've played on or ran myself, empty servers in the middle of bm are an issue.

 

Nobody wants to log in during a bm on an empty server because the zombies start attacking immediately. No way to prepare, and now not even the possibility to jump on a jeep and flee? Why does anyone care if a player skips a hordenight. I really don't get it. There's like 100 hordenights during a game. Why should skipping a few of them matter?

 

What are we surviving for if we can't change our situation for the better and forever and always have to stay vigilant? It makes no sense to me

 

how dare you skip the horde, your ruining my game play!

[archergod]

If a game mechanic is so unattractive to players wanting to experience it, especially the game machanic the game is named after, they are skipping it I see that as a major issue with the game.

 

I personally love the horde nights. I cant believe anyone skips them. I wish we had hard data on the % of players that actually skip them.

 

The game title and game concept is that on horde night you will be chased, it doesn't mean you have to defend yourself fighting or you cannot try to hide from it. Different people react differently. And that is what this game did good when I first play it in A16. It support both game plays.

 

But now, it is been forced to play BM Horde. I love the idea that Zed get smarter and reach your hiding spot quickly but I doesn't like that you have to stay and fight.

 

Personally I always fight Horde night as that is the easiest, because I play a planned game. But some people, specially young kids are not always managed and remain half prepared. So they run to hide after their initial plan fails. I don't see it is wrong behaviour. Idea is to survive. hide/avoid or fight should always be player's choice.

 

I love to see progressive effect though, like if on horde night you avoid and say kill only 50% of that horde than next night they become more in quantity, as those how survive (zed) call their help... and horde night get increased if you leave them. So if you miss 2 horde night completely then on third night you get horde equal to 3 nights.

[ecv]

Everyone wants more zombies but you? What if there was an increasing chance per kill you make (not traps) to get a loot drop? So the more guys you killed, the more loot you got? Then by being engaged you would get more nice yellow bags to collect.

 

I'll be honest I haven't played much/any late game stuff in some years so that is my top priority so I can see how these feel.

 

I'd love more zombies. Come to think of it, it's only the radiated ones I'd like reduced and made special.

 

They don't have an Achilles Heel. I think that's what bugs me most. Having a spot to hit, like the underbelly of a dragon, would be interesting. Hit them in the leg , drop them on the ground, expose weak spot, shoot to kill.

 

Loot pretty much becomes inconsequential, unless you reintroduce degradation of level through repairs. For now it's, you found your gun, you'll never need to find another.

 

I'm not afraid to say that I haven't opened a single yellow lootbag. There never is anything in there that I don't already have or can make. The more I think about it, the more I realize I don't need the loot. I want to feel like a job well done after bm.

Just eradicating a sea of zombies with pure muscle is nice the first time.

 

So yeah, how about special kill mechanics for special zombies, and a slight reduction of special zombies, perhaps one or two at a time per player max.

 

Just curious, what can one do while waiting out the night at a trader? How about a poker minigame with the trader? Oh, and introduce an option to limit that space, so players can have an option to compete for that space