Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[Trekkan]

One major problem is that TFP, in their infinite wisdom, decided to go with the second mouse button for a power attack instead of a long press of the first button. Shields were on the table until this was introduced, there was concept art for them.

 

Unless the mechanics are fundamentally changed the secondary weapon will be unusable, whether that be a torch, club, or rubber chicken.

 

Yeah, but... if they decided to actually add in shields, etc... its not like they can't you know... change things. Its not like code can't be changed, if that's what they decide.

[The Gronk]

Yeah, but... if they decided to actually add in shields, etc... its not like they can't you know... change things. Its not like code can't be changed, if that's what they decide.

 

This is true although it would require re-writing a large system. If the intention was to add shields later why implement the character controller in such a way that pretty much excludes dual-wielding?

 

It wouldn't be particularly hard but it would be time consuming.

[Trankitas]

That's the one. I even built a visualizer similar to that to test with.

 

How does that work against blocks?

[Onarr]

One major problem is that TFP, in their infinite wisdom, decided to go with the second mouse button for a power attack instead of a long press of the first button. Shields were on the table until this was introduced, there was concept art for them.

 

Unless the mechanics are fundamentally changed the secondary weapon will be unusable, whether that be a torch, club, or rubber chicken.

 

Adding blocking into game would be nice. Right now, aside from backpedaling you have no way of defending yourself when you get swarmed - no block, no parry, no kick, no shove. It would be nice, if zombies did much more dmg, but you had more ways to counter it.

 

Just imagine it, being able to use stamina to shove the zombie to the ground and then, for the first time ever actually using the stun damage bonus (once you have few ranks of weapon perk you one shot zombies anyway). Damn I would love this, being able to do more then just swing light and hard.

[Ezed]

One major problem is that TFP, in their infinite wisdom, decided to go with the second mouse button for a power attack instead of a long press of the first button. Shields were on the table until this was introduced, there was concept art for them.

 

Unless the mechanics are fundamentally changed the secondary weapon will be unusable, whether that be a torch, club, or rubber chicken.

 

 

Talking about holding a torch or flashlight in the off hand simply in order to see in the dark, not swinging or poking or bashing with it. Some other things that are not applicable include operating motor vehicles, hang gliding and the picking of noses. Just thought I'd mention o couple of those in case it wasn't clear.

[Gsites90]

18 is spent getting the the core gameplay great again, 19 will have opportunity to improve vehicles and make mods for them, and fort pieces.

 

You just ignored the bulk of my post and focused on "mods" for vehicles, which is confusing because it's the physical size of the 4x4 that causes it to not fit through the GARAGE door. Also how does that change how they like to destroy ramp pieces like those on a bridge when driving over them, or how they stall out on the standard ramp? And I don't really care about "fort pieces" as my big issue here is the fact that we can't build anything larger than a small hut or zombies spawn inside our bases as was the point of noting the size of the base I was building. Also I tried to standardize the size of my base around the land claim block size at max, as I figured it would block the inner area, which is why the inner wall is 54x54. How is building within the confines of a LAND CLAIM BLOCK too large? Why can't it force zombies to spawn outside of it? I'd really appreciate it if you'd acknowledge the issues with spawning as it seems counter to what the game leads you to believe is possible, alongside what you seem to be suggesting with your "multiple outer walls" comment.

[Frisky Minx]

only 10 rows?? snicker. try 40 or 50 rows worth. been there, done that. (A16) we had a path to get in, zeds too stupid to use.

Can't do that now as they would use it. That be bad.

 

(I'm up to 11 rows right now, and expanding. (barbed wire fence after 3 of spikes, repeat)

 

I do not use spikes at all. I use Steel-Walls, with a one Block Opening, Iron Bars and a trapdoor to over the hole, so screamers cant see me. Its like a hatch on an old Pirateship. On the other side of the Wall, I use electric Fences, Bladetraps and Shotgun Turrets.

I do miss the Logspikes alot tho.

[Shineblossom]

Actually food spoilage is something that could become good gameplay incentive, if we will ever be able to raise lifestock. It would also increase value of perks like huntsman, living of the wild and slow metabolism, which right now are a joke. Not to mention that cans would actually be useful late game as emergency food, when yours spoil.

 

If the spoilage would increase your chance of food poisoning, there would be an actual reason to craft herbal medicine. Fridges would have actual usage to slow spoilage. Early game you could use smoker to prolong the shelf life.

 

Another thing that would increase in value would be vending machines, which up until now I used like twice. Also seeing shamway boxes would actually have value later on.

 

And Shamway recipe could be actually used as last resort, when all your meat has rotten. Fat would also increase in value because of this.

 

Higher value of food would also decrease value of mining (you have to eat more when mining) and therefore helped balance it with looting. You could not get thousands of ores in one night and be done with it. Currently you hit a vein, spend one night and are set for several weeks on resources. Suddenly, a lot of loot just lost value. This would also increase value of strength perks and better tools.

 

 

All in all I feel that spoilage would increase value of many items, perks, create new gameplay incentives and bring more challenges. After all zombie apocalypse is about scarcity and living from day to day. I currently really enjoy JaWoodles series in Dishong tower, where you really need to utilize everything to maximum, because basic resources are suddenly very valuable.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Food spoilage is complete bull♥♥♥♥. Also, it was already said multiple times that livestock would take too much memory. To quote MM, "you can either have 64 zombies or 63 cows and one zombie at a time".

 

There are people who don't want to go hunting every 10 minutes. Also, multiplayer. Only reasonable case for spoilage would be if we could deep freeze any food and so cancel it. Which means everyone would do it and it would be pointless work for TFP. Also, cans are used in lategame recipes.

 

You just ignored the bulk of my post and focused on "mods" for vehicles, which is confusing because it's the physical size of the 4x4 that causes it to not fit through the GARAGE door. Also how does that change how they like to destroy ramp pieces like those on a bridge when driving over them, or how they stall out on the standard ramp? And I don't really care about "fort pieces" as my big issue here is the fact that we can't build anything larger than a small hut or zombies spawn inside our bases as was the point of noting the size of the base I was building. Also I tried to standardize the size of my base around the land claim block size at max, as I figured it would block the inner area, which is why the inner wall is 54x54. How is building within the confines of a LAND CLAIM BLOCK too large? Why can't it force zombies to spawn outside of it? I'd really appreciate it if you'd acknowledge the issues with spawning as it seems counter to what the game leads you to believe is possible, alongside what you seem to be suggesting with your "multiple outer walls" comment.

 

Same problem with car. Same problem with base building. +1 for saying it out loud.

[Slingblade2040]

never going to understand why some folks need a massive base. if zombie spawns and stuff are an issue for large bases why not just make it smaller with multiple floors? just seems insane to build a base larger than 16x16...heck even a 11x11 base is considered large to me. speaking of multiple floors. I really would like an elevator put into the game eventually.

[Shineblossom]

never going to understand why some folks need a massive base. if zombie spawns and stuff are an issue for large bases why not just make it smaller with multiple floors? just seems insane to build a base larger than 16x16...heck even a 11x11 base is considered large to me. speaking of multiple floors. I really would like an elevator put into the game eventually.

 

Tower is not aesthetically pleasing. Also, multiplayer. Or building a village. Or farm. Or castle.

[Damocles]

never going to understand why some folks need a massive base. if zombie spawns and stuff are an issue for large bases why not just make it smaller with multiple floors? just seems insane to build a base larger than 16x16...heck even a 11x11 base is considered large to me. speaking of multiple floors. I really would like an elevator put into the game eventually.

 

If a bigger base means that more zombies (or bandits) will attack, that would be an interesting tradeoff.

Either keep a small puny base, but less attacks, or go for a big extensive base, but then suffer the wrath of the horde.

 

(Would then need some kind of metric to indicate how large the base is currently)

[Odetta]

Tower is not aesthetically pleasing. Also, multiplayer. Or building a village. Or farm. Or castle.

 

What I've been doing is making my own endgame where I build a huge village with multiples of NPCs, animals, etc (spawned in) all walled in. I then make it so Its my horde base. If the zombies ever breach the walls I consider it a lose and end my game. To be honest its fun as ♥♥♥♥ and involves almost all aspects of the game. Its an amazing feeling too that you can't quite get yet in vanilla atm; being in a village that feels alive and your tribe/community.

[Shineblossom]

What I've been doing is making my own endgame where I build a huge village with multiples of NPCs, animals, etc (spawned in) all walled in. I then make it so Its my horde base. If the zombies ever breach the walls I consider it a lose and end my game. To be honest its fun as ♥♥♥♥ and involves almost all aspects of the game. Its an amazing feeling too that you can't quite get yet in vanilla atm; being in a village that feels alive and your tribe/community.

 

This! +1. Exactly what i mean. One of many many reasons for big base.

[RipClaw]

never going to understand why some folks need a massive base..

 

A large base is not necessarily made for practical reasons. Often you just want to be creative. If I take a look at the huge bases of Z Nation then of course this is complete overkill but from a design point of view it is impressive.

[enragedcamel]

Towers are nice because their smaller footprint makes them much easier to defend.

[Dimpy]

Only for you because you start with the assumption that you can not play the game if you do not have the maximum ability in harvesting.

That is objectively false so... problem solved. =)

 

Players can pick the strength attribute for the weapons, the easy carry capacity... and the harvesting.

No one but yourself actually forces you to do so.

 

In A18 the attributes will be balanced with respect to the gunplay mechanics; every attribute has an associated gun. It will be balanced with respect to crafting. A17 is balanced with respect to the dungeon looting mechanics; each attribute directly helped loot POIs and kill zombies. It was not, however, balanced in the same way with respect to the building mechanics: Only STR and INT significantly change base-building abilities. STR makes bases bigger by increased resource gain, INT makes them more advanced by adding fancy traps and the electricity system.

 

Not only is harvesting and placing blocks a core mechanic of the game, the destructible voxel environment is one of the key things that makes it different from something like Fallout.

 

Nobody is saying the game is unplayable without the STR harvesting perks, but the fact that they are disproportionately useful to people who like building means those people are still being being markedly discouraged from trying a more diverse set of builds.

 

I'd rather have each attribute add something unique to the experience rather than comlpetely nuked STR mining perks though.

[Roland]

You guys are trying hard to get builders to be seen as the persecuted group but that distinction will always reside with PvPers....

 

 

Kidding aside...

 

Strength: Faster block destruction

Fortitude: improved harvesting

Intellect: crafting base traps

Perception: increased HP of crafted blocks

Agility: faster block crafting

 

Something like that?

[Star69]

Move harvesting to Perception.....“Nobody is saying the game is unplayable without thePER harvesting perks, but the fact that they are disproportionately useful to people who like looting means those people are still being markedly discouraged from trying a more diverse set of builds”

 

I can repeat your statement for each perk category. Your argument doesn’t hold water. You don’t want harvesting in strength because you don’t want to spec into strength. Harvesting has to go somewhere. Regardless which category it’s put into, it will bother a certain segment of people. Also, MM said there is a book on harvesting so find that and you won’t need to spend any points in STR. My suggestion is to wait until you actually play the new perk system before saying it prevents diverse builds.

[Dimpy]

You guys are trying hard to get builders to be seen as the persecuted group but that distinction will always reside with PvPers....

 

 

Kidding aside...

 

Strength: Faster block destruction

Fortitude: improved harvesting

Intellect: crafting base traps

Perception: increased HP of crafted blocks

Agility: faster block crafting

 

Something like that?

 

Kind of. I just started a thread on it here.

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?119610-How-could-more-attributes-support-building&p=986389#post986389

[ieuri]

I feel from enough posts that we are confident that each perk has been balanced from a combat perspective across each ability. I believe what people are worried about is that they are not balanced for other game mechanics. Harvesting is a core game function and should be balanced in the same way. STR = more block damage, AGI = faster hitting, INT = more resources, ect. What I would love to see is also tier 1, 2, and 3 of each crafting station be tied to a perk, so that if you only spend a point, you can craft a campfire, but if you max that ability you can craft smokers and later an oven to cook better food with. STR 3 = wood fired forge, STR 5 = gas powered blast furnace, ect. Really speciallizing each attribute. I can put 3 points into everything to do everything just ok, but if i want the best mats i need to specialize.

[Dimpy]

Move harvesting to Perception.....“Nobody is saying the game is unplayable without thePER harvesting perks, but the fact that they are disproportionately useful to people who like looting means those people are still being markedly discouraged from trying a more diverse set of builds”

 

I can repeat your statement for each perk category. Your argument doesn’t hold water. You don’t want harvesting in strength because you don’t want to spec into strength. Harvesting has to go somewhere. Regardless which category it’s put into, it will bother a certain segment of people. Also, MM said there is a book on harvesting so find that and you won’t need to spend any points in STR. My suggestion is to wait until you actually play the new perk system before saying it prevents diverse builds.

 

I disagree. The process of looting is much more complex than just pressing E on a box and taking what's inside. You have to gain access to the container, and all of the attributes have associated perks that help you achive that goal more efficiently, safely and quickly.

 

I can repeat your statement for each perk category. Your argument doesn’t hold water.

If you would like to try again, I would be happy to oblige you.

[Shineblossom]

In A18 the attributes will be balanced with respect to the gunplay mechanics; every attribute has an associated gun. It will be balanced with respect to crafting. A17 is balanced with respect to the dungeon looting mechanics; each attribute directly helped loot POIs and kill zombies. It was not, however, balanced in the same way with respect to the building mechanics: Only STR and INT significantly change base-building abilities. STR makes bases bigger by increased resource gain, INT makes them more advanced by adding fancy traps and the electricity system.

 

Not only is harvesting and placing blocks a core mechanic of the game, the destructible voxel environment is one of the key things that makes it different from something like Fallout.

 

Nobody is saying the game is unplayable without the STR harvesting perks, but the fact that they are disproportionately useful to people who like building means those people are still being being markedly discouraged from trying a more diverse set of builds.

 

I'd rather have each attribute add something unique to the experience rather than comlpetely nuked STR mining perks though.

 

Why? I don't see any problem with it being in STR. I am builder. And i pretend STR perks don't exists. Still works.

 

I feel from enough posts that we are confident that each perk has been balanced from a combat perspective across each ability. I believe what people are worried about is that they are not balanced for other game mechanics. Harvesting is a core game function and should be balanced in the same way. STR = more block damage, AGI = faster hitting, INT = more resources, ect. What I would love to see is also tier 1, 2, and 3 of each crafting station be tied to a perk, so that if you only spend a point, you can craft a campfire, but if you max that ability you can craft smokers and later an oven to cook better food with. STR 3 = wood fired forge, STR 5 = gas powered blast furnace, ect. Really speciallizing each attribute. I can put 3 points into everything to do everything just ok, but if i want the best mats i need to specialize.

 

Yeah, so every single spec will be useless for harvesting. Gonna catch them all to be good at it?

[The Gronk]

never going to understand why some folks need a massive base. if zombie spawns and stuff are an issue for large bases why not just make it smaller with multiple floors? just seems insane to build a base larger than 16x16...heck even a 11x11 base is considered large to me. speaking of multiple floors. I really would like an elevator put into the game eventually.

 

Spreading the attacking force over as large an area as possible reduces the amount of damage they deal per square metre and maximizes the effectiveness of your spikes.

 

Not quite as an effective tactic with the improved AI but it still worth doing.

[FA_Q2]

A large base is not necessarily made for practical reasons. Often you just want to be creative. If I take a look at the huge bases of Z Nation then of course this is complete overkill but from a design point of view it is impressive.

 

Bingo.

 

I like my base to have some room so that I enjoy the aesthetics of it as well as functionality in defense and finally a design that makes sense.

 

Practically speaking - I can make an effective horde and storage base with 30 blocks - even less if I can dig it out - but that is just downright boring.

[Aldranon]

Bingo.

 

I like my base to have some room so that I enjoy the aesthetics of it as well as functionality in defense and finally a design that makes sense.

 

Practically speaking - I can make an effective horde and storage base with 30 blocks - even less if I can dig it out - but that is just downright boring.

 

With A17, if you don't want to gimmick the zombie AI, waste resources on the flimsy spikes or waste ammo THEN have a big strong fort that can absorb more damage than the zombies can dish out in one night.

 

So a large, damage sponge of a fort is actually the smart way to go. Remember gaining exp without loot is a minus and big forts reduce the "Non-loot experience trap" that is the bane for most players*.

 

 

*Until you have all the max gear, weapons, mods and more ammo than you will ever need.