Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Gazz]

To us old-school types it's the difference between an allowance, and going out and cutting the neighbors grass to earn the money to buy that thing you really want.

 

There's an element of that in a 'learn by doing' progression that isn't really there with a perk system.

Now I'm confused.

You want the "allowance type" reward which in A16 meant being inactive, sitting on your butt and crafting 5000 stone shovels or running a macro to fire an inventory full of crossbow bolts overnight?

 

I'm not at all against picking up perks or traits while playing the game but the A16 design for it was soul-destroying. That can not happen again.

(besides, Cookie Clicker already has that particular market cornered)

[CplCritter]

Is it possible to import a base into a new map?

 

I saw Hated's video on how to export and save builds and I was able to successfully do so, but cannot figure out how to import that base to a new location in the same map or in a different map. Can anyone help?

 

I'm still using my original map from the first experimental build (Navezgane) and it is having some issues... Yeah yeah, I've been reluctant to do a fresh wipe and say goodbye to my progress, but with POIs being absent of sleepers and corn as a vending machine giving free food but not being destroyed, I think a fresh wipe is in order. I absolutely love the base I've built. It took FOREVER and would hate to have to try and duplicate the effort if I don't have to.

 

Any ideas?

[Jugginator]

Before I go try and reproduce, anyone have an issue where they can't shift-click into a container, only manually move stuff, but when you exit said container it disappears and you lose what you put in?

 

I just experienced this. I had my chainsaw on my toolbar, and for reasons I am not sure yet I tried to shift click it from my toolbar to my chest and it didn't move. Then I couldnt take it off of my toolbar period. Couldnt put anything it its slot, either. Not sure if restartting helps, for I got busy. It didn't vanish after leaving container, but I still couldn't remove it from my toolbar.

[Laz Man]

Yeh that one I've had too, and enough times I figure someone else already reported it. =)

 

That's the same reason I havent reported it either lol...

[khzmusik]

when you started game, did you set it single player only? if not and you have not logged in some time, lcb can turn inactive

 

This wasn't directed at me, but since ShadeX and I seem to have the same issue, I'll reply to this too.

 

I do not play MP at all, so I have always set up my games to be single-player.

 

However - you might still be on to something. With A17, there is less distinction between SP and MP. SP also sets up a server, it's just private - the idea, I guess, is that you would be able to turn a SP game into a MP game just by inviting people.

 

If it's true that MP games deactivate LCBs after some timer, then that might in fact be the issue, I hadn't noticed the problem until after I had taken a break from the game for several days.

 

And, to me at least, what you're describing doesn't make sense in MP either, so it might be a bug as well.

 

@UnholyJoe - does this sound plausible to you? Or, at least, plausible enough to turn this into a bug report, even if I can't hunt down the logs for the time when it happened? (I did look through all the logs since updating to the latest build, and nothing jumped out at me.)

[FileMachete]

Huh...I think what you describe more accurately represents the perk system rather than learn by doing.

 

Cut grass. Earn currency. Shop for desirables.

 

Play game. Earn skill points. Shop for perks.

 

heh true, not a great example of learn by doing. It was my poorly worded attempt to trigger the idea that the things we 'earn' for ourselves are usually more valued than those simply 'given' to us.

 

And yes, at the core of it there aren't any 'freebies' in the perk system, we're all still 'earning' every point we recieve, however we might choose to spend them, they were earned.

 

Could be argued that simply finding a magic book & shazzam, now you can make a Minibike, is fairly silly, yet it follows the general idea of 'learning' that we're all used to; have a goal, make an effort, "study/read-a-book", learn how.

 

Going to the gym to get stronger, eating healthier to feel better & have more energy, training for a 10km fun run by, well, running.

 

Even though it's pixels on a screen those are easy to equate to and, likely, feel more 'right' or 'natural'.

 

However, those are the easy ones. While I might like a system where we could wrench multiple cars and gradually learned how they worked, resulting in unlocking how to fix up a wreck to a drivable state, others may not, or the time required to put in is too high.

 

So, maybe, to me, a mix of both would feel better. So what?, it's TFPs game & they clearly didn't like the old system.

 

I'll concede that in the end it's all silly, and very, very subjective, which is mainly why I've stayed away from this whole area.

[Laz Man]

I just experienced this. I had my chainsaw on my toolbar, and for reasons I am not sure yet I tried to shift click it from my toolbar to my chest and it didn't move. Then I couldnt take it off of my toolbar period. Couldnt put anything it its slot, either. Not sure if restartting helps, for I got busy. It didn't vanish after leaving container, but I still couldn't remove it from my toolbar.

 

See if u can drop it via the "G" key. Poor man's workaround.

[Gazz]

That (really annoying) bug can be worked around by either using the item if consumable or tapping scrap/cancel.

[khzmusik]

Yeh that one I've had too, and enough times I figure someone else already reported it. =)

 

I think you're talking about this reported issue (which I confirmed):

https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?101187-Alpha-17-Experimental-B240-bug-reporting-thread&p=911954&viewfull=1#post911954

[FileMachete]

Agree w that, and recall doing the same. Yet, and I'm not 'picking' on anything/one, wasn't that at least partially a balance thing? Like all the looting required?

 

I've not weighed in on the "Perk System", and I'm not intending to by the following;

 

We're curious creatures, we take things apart to see how they work, we get better at physical & mental tasks by doing them, or examining how others have attempted them.

 

And pretty much everyone I know gets a kick out of 'discovering' something on their own compared to someone else just giving them the answer.

 

To us old-school types it's the difference between an allowance, and going out and cutting the neighbors grass to earn the money to buy that thing you really want.

 

There's an element of that in a 'learn by doing' progression that isn't really there with a perk system.

 

Now I'm confused.

You want the "allowance type" reward which in A16 meant being inactive, sitting on your butt and crafting 5000 stone shovels or running a macro to fire an inventory full of crossbow bolts overnight?

 

I'm not at all against picking up perks or traits while playing the game but the A16 design for it was soul-destroying. That can not happen again.

(besides, Cookie Clicker already has that particular market cornered)

 

(please note the red color I used above to highlight a couple lines is due to the paler colors not being viewable on mobile devices; -not- intending to come across as riled up or anything )

 

Sorry Gazz, it was a bad example on my part. I think I clarified it a bit in my post just prior to this one; which I didn't see until after posting that one... etc... (ow)

[wolffblood]

Lol, just for fun, I may make it the beginner quest gives 350 skill points, get rid of lvl gates, make it to where there is 0 food or water loss, and play. Oh, and make it like 1million or so for first lvl so game stage goes by days played and not have levels to worry about. Well, it's what it sounds like some people want, at least on steam reviews, lolz.

[Jugginator]

Lol, just for fun, I may make it the beginner quest gives 350 skill points, get rid of lvl gates, make it to where there is 0 food or water loss, and play. Oh, and make it like 1million or so for first lvl so game stage goes by days played and not have levels to worry about. Well, it's what it sounds like some people want, at least on steam reviews, lolz.

 

Don't forget about a gyrochopter, 1k rounds of 7.62 with a fully-modded AK and a placeable hordebase made of stainless steel. Oh, and 600 bones. Since apparently bones are a big complaint (remember, searching for stuff is bad, having it all at start is what makes a great game.

 

Everything has to be call of duty or it's a fail.

 

 

PS Thank you Laz and Gaz for that tip. I'll check in a few

[lesipher]

See if u can drop it via the "G" key. Poor man's workaround.

 

I have had this problem as well but I couldn't drop either. So I used scrap and then cancelled the scrapping. another workaround.

[Kalex]

15 backpack slot mods that's for armor right? But what if I'm not using armor?

 

plant fiber clothing (and other clothing either now or in the future) accepts armor mods.

[LilMissNorti]

Okay, you'd want Strength and Perception

I think specializing in an SP game is necessarily more difficult than in a co-op (not free-for-all PvE, but true co-op) game. If you're all alone, you kinda have to be able to heal yourself a bit, and craft a few things, and cook food, and shoot/hit zombies. You can kinda be stronger at a few things, but it's probably going to be difficult to completely ignore more than one attribute.

 

But that is where magazines can help (and I really like them as a concept...but pretty please can we get them to stack?!?)...get the perk to build a bicycle for 30 mins and build a bicycle - spend the point elsewhere. This is how we managed to build a forge, bikes, workbench and chem bench on our playthrough (myself and the bf)...he's specialises in melee and I'm ranged/the crafter of the team.

[LionsDen]

plant fiber clothing (and other clothing either now or in the future) accepts armor mods.

 

Most craftable clothing (not armor) cannot use armor mods at this time. At least I haven't seen any as of yet and I have been playing the experimental versions of A17 since the first day.

[LilMissNorti]

Noob question:

 

When recently cleaning the "Bear Den Bar" POI, I noticed there were these glass chemistry sets littered throughout, even in hidden compartments. What the hell are those for? Hitting them with a stone axe or a wrench just smashed them to pieces.

 

I second this question. looks like an unfinished lootable stuff. Not just decorative.

 

I believe this is a 'no loot' item on the loot table...basically a 'bad luck nothing to see here' drop

[DaVegaNL]

You guys know what they say about opinions? Well here is mine, the game in it's current state gives you something to work towards. The level "gates" can be pushed up to very fast and you do have choices of how to reach them. I actually quit playing the game during alpha 16 because it was boring. You had top quality guns and tools by the time the first horde night come along and after that it was just rinse and repeat. So give the devs a chance it is not all in stone yet let them have a break for the holidays and start fresh in the new year.

 

^ this.

 

Plus he/she talked about stone.

[Royal Deluxe]

is it not possible to set defined skillpoint costs per attribute level ?

[SickPuppy]

Seems I've awoken some trolls around here lol.

 

But seriously though if devs are worried bout players rushing/cheesing to end game perks and items then don't make them so powerful. Lower the high end perk levels so they aren't breaking the game, less total skill points, keep the game challenging even when irradiateds show up. For me it's not about rushing to be op, I don't want stacks of bones, ammo, weapons, run around with no stamina penalty, day1 gyro, etc. It's choice of character build. Huge difference.

 

I thought the whole level gates where to prevent ppl from getting OP but having sub perks locked under attributes is making us go for all attributes, or was that the whole idea in the first place? Apart from Wolffblood many here are kinda dancing around the issue with pitchforks and shield walls. Nobody feels restricted a melee focused build needs to dump points into Perc ranged damage just for better looting and wrenching. Or a sneak archer build dumping points into Str melee dmg just to unlock some more inventory slots?

 

Anyways doubt devs will make any drastic changes now, just some feedback for discussion no need for pitchforks or shield walls jking since 1961.

[The Gronk]

A16 was not a mixture.

It was all about grinding up certain skills.

 

The skill points rarely were an issue.

 

Frequently I was mining with a stone axe or claw hammer just to grind up some construction skill to progress. Those were not good times.

 

You've replaced spam-crafting with spam-shooting.

 

For a builder a lack of XP is a very real issue under the current system.

 

Instead of forcing people to use an improper tool you're forcing them to use improper tactics. Who in their right mind actively seeks out the zombies during the apocalypse?

 

You haven't made it better, just different.

[Aero]

Found the house with the bunker underneath it, with the access in the waterwell.

 

Set up shop there a bit to loot the houses in the neighborhood... at night I was placing some torches around the place (hate the strange lighting on those... great light when u hold it, but when u place it, it gives the light of a small candle irl)... anyway, doing that somehow made zombies above attack the base.

 

It's just ridiculous how 'smart' and good at hearing the zombies now are... you can't do anything without them hearing you I guess... even if you are deep underground surrounded with concrete.

[wolffblood]

Seems I've awoken some trolls around here lol.

 

But seriously though if devs are worried bout players rushing/cheesing to end game perks and items then don't make them so powerful. Lower the high end perk levels so they aren't breaking the game, less total skill points, keep the game challenging even when irradiateds show up. For me it's not about rushing to be op, I don't want stacks of bones, ammo, weapons, run around with no stamina penalty, day1 gyro, etc. It's choice of character build. Huge difference.

 

I thought the whole level gates where to prevent ppl from getting OP but having sub perks locked under attributes is making us go for all attributes, or was that the whole idea in the first place? Apart from Wolffblood many here are kinda dancing around the issue with pitchforks and shield walls. Nobody feels restricted a melee focused build needs to dump points into Perc ranged damage just for better looting and wrenching. Or a sneak archer build dumping points into Str melee dmg just to unlock some more inventory slots?

 

Anyways doubt devs will make any drastic changes now, just some feedback for discussion no need for pitchforks or shield walls jking since 1961.

 

For now, I've made it 2 points per lvl, but takes about 1.5x more xp to lvl. That way I don't get strong too fast, but that I still feel like I'm getting somewhere. It's worked well so far and my friend actually really likes it. Doesn't matter if it takes longer to lvl since we feel there's more of a reward for surviving and actually leveling.

**I should add, I play <5 hours a week, so the normal lvling sometimes had me feeling like I wasn't going anywhere and almost felt forced to go hunting zombies for xp this last build due to zombies being lower xp and building/harvesting xp is still low. This way after I'm done playing, since I have a few more skill points and actually feel like I'm getting stronger and doing more things, it's a bit more satisfying**

 

Currently trying to see what kind of perks I want to add, it already seems like enough now actually when you dig into it and start figuring out just how much it actually costs for things. But I'm wanting to add more, give 2 points per lvl (keep it normal xp gains) and decrease the amounts of bonuses given in the perks. But that's just me, lol.

[savemulder]

 

placing some torches around the place (hate the strange lighting on those... great light when u hold it, but when u place it, it gives the light of a small candle irl)... anyway, doing that somehow made zombies above attack the base.

 

have u heard of like heat signature ? and certain behavior raises the "heat" in the area ... idk how this works presently or in the past exactly but placing a bunch of torches raises the heat in the area ; zombie gore blocks used to raise heat i think ,,, im guessing that at least played a part in why zombie's sensed you.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

is hay not working for anyone ? i free fall like 80-100 meters and break my leg and take like 20 damage... is this by design? thanks

[meganoth]

Maybe I'm just playing it wrong, maybe I'm just too greedy wanting one or two sub perks from each attribute tree.

 

...

 

Agree it's definitely not easy to balance, there's plenty to like in A17 but the attribute gates are not fun for me anyway. I thought the whole point was not to make us all powerful and get all attributes, but having these sub perks under attributes is making us go down all attributes.

 

The design goal (IMO) is that the perks and the mods in your equipment make you all powerful, not the attributes. If you are a perfect shooter with perception 10, then the ranged damage bonus of perception needs to be lowered.

 

Maybe the attribute boni need some variation too. For example perception could give the following boni:

 

Perception Bonus

1 +5% ranged damage

2 +10 loot bonus

3 +5% ranged damage

4 +5% wrench result, +5 loot bonus

...