Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[DaVegaNL]

I do. I hate that the game is being simplified to account for consoles.

 

Guppy! How often do I have to tell you? It's not 'simplified', it's called 'streamlining'!

[unholyjoe]

Dont think thats a bug. If i remember correctly they took it out on purpose.

 

Cheers

 

you still end up getting the same as you did before... random of course.. but you used to chop the tree and every swing get example... 1 wood per swing and then at fell point you got 15 plus chance of seed.

 

whereas now, you get the same amount and still maybe a seed.

 

we did not loose how many we get... its just all spread out now keep in mind various amounts per different tree types and random.

[canadianbluebeer]

1: Sticky arrows: very very good.

2: No HP/Stam numbers visible: um... meh. That will get modded. As long as there IS an indicator of some kind.

3: Fast zombie respawn: bug.

4: Fast zombe despawn: bug.

5: Hydration tied to yadda: GOOD. (want to see how it actually plays though)

6: Loot changes to the zeds: Gore blocks were a pain. Lack of bones/flesh though, that is gonna be an issue. Have to see what we DO get.

(loot spawn values can be tweaked) I've wound up with a chest nearly full of pistols that I don't need, can't sell, and merging them into 600 lvl is just... grrr. I'd scrap them, but I don't need the mats.

7: Weapon changes: want to see just what the mods are for the slots.

8: Backpack: bigger yes, still not big enough, but with the item (NOT LOOT) changes, we may not NEED so many slots as before.

(all the weapon parts...)

9: MM needs to actually play the game more. heh.

10: Alpha. EXPERIMENTAL. 'nuff said, except for:

99: The cheese truck is over thataway --->>

 

[Jedo]

@DaVegaNL, did you have fun with what you thought was a gotcha moment? I don't suppose you know the difference between giving feedback and stating one's opinion on quality? No, of course you don't.

 

I would be perfectly happy for people to say, "I don't think this looks good," "I'm not excited for this alpha after that video," or "OH MY GOD I'M GONNA PISS MY PANTS I'M SO EXCITED!!!" It's an impression. Giving a detailed critique when you have no experience is much different.

[Zadwanaa]

1: Sticky arrows: very very good.

2: No HP/Stam numbers visible: um... meh. That will get modded. As long as there IS an indicator of some kind.

3: Fast zombie respawn: bug.

4: Fast zombe despawn: bug.

5: Hydration tied to yadda: GOOD. (want to see how it actually plays though)

6: Loot changes to the zeds: Gore blocks were a pain. Lack of bones/flesh though, that is gonna be an issue. Have to see what we DO get.

(loot spawn values can be tweaked) I've wound up with a chest nearly full of pistols that I don't need, can't sell, and merging them into 600 lvl is just... grrr. I'd scrap them, but I don't need the mats.

7: Weapon changes: want to see just what the mods are for the slots.

8: Backpack: bigger yes, still not big enough, but with the item (NOT LOOT) changes, we may not NEED so many slots as before.

(all the weapon parts...)

9: MM needs to actually play the game more. heh.

10: Alpha. EXPERIMENTAL. 'nuff said, except for:

99: The cheese truck is over thataway --->>

 

 

Ya, basically how i felt too. Esp. with the potential lack of flesh. Bones we can still get from animals, so there's that source

[unholyjoe]

Ya, basically how i felt too. Esp. with the potential lack of flesh. Bones we can still get from animals, so there's that source

 

HINT: trash/garbage laying around everywhere... trash cans... dumpsters and many other containers... look in everything and helps your scavenging too.

 

oh.... and follow me in game when i play... i throw all that down because i dont need it... ooops sorry i had to say that

[Gnomaana]

Make zombies not drop loot is in my top 5 and I'm not alone so speak for yourself and stop assuming for everyone. We all have different wants and needs and not all of them will be hit. Thats life. It is THEIR game not yours. Let them create their vision. We can sort it out at a later time because they are GRACIOUS enough to keep the modding possibilities 100 percent open to everyone.

 

That said the only thing I had issue with is the fast respawning sleepers. Way faster than now and now is a bug that needed fixing. But the old quote "In Pimps We Trust" stands tried and true for me. That video was 100 percent breathtaking and exhilarating and I loved every single thing I saw in it.

 

Bring it on guys!

 

Zombies not dropping loot is on your top 5 but your mod still has loot tables for zombies? I'm a bit confused. Isn't that an easy change?

 

I'm not arguing for or against the change. I try not to comment about stuff til I've tried it. Just thought this was an odd comment and if I misunderstand what you are saying, sorry in advance.

[4sheetzngeegles]

Question?

****If gun parts are removed, can someone provide an example of how to construct a turret in A17?

[Xrt]

Question?

****If gun parts are removed, can someone provide an example of how to construct a turret in A17?

 

That is actually nothing short of a spectacular question, lol.

And I can't believe no-one has brought it up.

 

My wild random guess would be that instead of parts, we now put in complete weapons. (smg, shotgun)

[DaVegaNL]

@DaVegaNL, did you have fun with what you thought was a gotcha moment? I don't suppose you know the difference between giving feedback and stating one's opinion on quality? No, of course you don't.

 

I would be perfectly happy for people to say, "I don't think this looks good," "I'm not excited for this alpha after that video," or "OH MY GOD I'M GONNA PISS MY PANTS I'M SO EXCITED!!!" It's an impression. Giving a detailed critique when you have no experience is much different.

 

I'm just here to point out hypocrisy when I see it Person A doesn't like the looks of the game, based on feature A (in this case; zombie corpses). Person B likes the looks of the game, based on feature B (in this case, QOL features). Which one is an impression? Which one is one's opinion? Both lack a detailed critique, and both are stated before actual hands-on experience.

 

But of course, we both know what you deem to be valid feedback..

[Jedo]

I'm just here to point out hypocrisy when I see it Person A doesn't like the looks of the game, based on feature A (in this case; zombie corpses). Person B likes the looks of the game, based on feature B (in this case, QOL features). Which one is an impression? Which one is one's opinion? Both lack a detailed critique, and both are stated before actual hands-on experience.

 

But of course, we both know what you deem to be valid feedback..

 

It's only hypocrisy in your mind. In your example here, both are impressions and both are opinions. Neither is feedback (that is, telling TFP that they need to change them and how). Those are the comments that I have targeted. (I would further delineate that there is a different between "I don't like the look of this" and "I know that I absolutely won't like this." The former is reasonable; the latter is not.)

[eidobunny]

Maybe they want you to focus on scavenging and raiding the new pois rather than farming zombie loot from your base. That would be my best guess as to why they would make that change from a gameplay standpoint.

 

Zombies will probably still give the best amount of XP for levelling so there is your incentive. If you need supplies like glue or tape or ammo then the new way to get those things is by crafting it, or at worst forcing you to go out and experience all the loot you can get by scavenging. I fully support this change, but I know a lot of others won't.

 

fwiw I don't see an inherent issue with taking out zombie loot, or taking out fat and bones from gore blocks. My major concern is an incentive to fight zombies.

 

Within our current system - assuming the zombies dropped no loot - the only incentive to kill them would be for exp, but what if your spikes are killing zombies? Or your turrets or other traps? Your spikes get destroyed and you waste a bunch of bullets but you get absolutely nothing for it.

 

Now, why bother making a base for 7th night? Why not just get on a minibike and drive until sunrise? Sure - you can easily kill walkers during the day for exp, or clear out a house to loot it, but no point in bothering with a big zombie defense. It just gets destroyed and you get nothing for it.

 

I guess I'm not understanding the design process here to incentivize participation in the most exciting part of the game: horde nights.

[ltbrunt]

A17 looks good enough to be a full released game. I thought A16 was rock solid and only cut back on playing due to the impending A17 release.

 

Will there be any significant updates during the A17 release cycle other than bug fixes?

 

After A17 is released and all major bugs fixed are you looking at a long Alpha release cycle for A18?

[Gamida]

Wait, there is a friends only option? I haven't played SP in a while so is this new?

 

yes as Roland explained when it was adopted... but people flew off the bat..

 

its as easy as 1...2...3...

 

you either choose a 1 player game (not listed and 1 player) even if you just choose 1 player and public, only you will be allowed in it.

 

if you want just your friends they have to be your friends in steam and they will be the only ones to see your game and you choose how many too.

 

if you want your game public... well its self explanatory now after i explained the first 2 choices.

 

does this help <rubs Gam behind his ears to calm him down>

 

First, I meant to say MP not SP as that wouldn't make sense with my question

Second, thanks for the explanation and the ear rub...they both helped

 

On a different subject altogether...

 

They do listen to feed back according to their KS page...

 

 

 

Am thinking they are looking for more quality feedback than "I want this" or "That is not what it should be like"

[4sheetzngeegles]

That is actually nothing short of a spectacular question, lol.

And I can't believe no-one has brought it up.

 

My wild random guess would be that instead of parts, we now put in complete weapons. (smg, shotgun)

 

I'd be good with that. It actually would simplify a few recipes.

[ltbrunt]

This may be out of scope but can you talk about how you use the Unity engine. I am extremely fascinated with video game engines.

 

Could 7DTD have been made with any other game engines?

Does 7DTD use the stock Unity engine? Is 7DTD running on a heavily modified version of Unity which could itself be a whole new game engine?

[JaxTeller718]

So, smaller maps and (practically) no zombie loot? Damn, I hope the new textures on the appliances and blocks are worth it.

 

Yep. New blocks and textures. Literally the ONLY reason why we need better performance and more freed up resources. Its like you intentionally block out anything positive JUST to hone in on the negative every single time. Carry on Wayward Son.

[DaVegaNL]

Yep. New blocks and textures. Literally the ONLY reason why we need better performance and more freed up resources. Its like you intentionally block out anything positive JUST to hone in on the negative every single time. Carry on Wayward Son.

 

Of course not, I also posted a list of what I thought to be positive and negative about the shown video Maybe you've seen it?

[Brian9824]

So, smaller maps and (practically) no zombie loot? Damn, I hope the new textures on the appliances and blocks are worth it.

 

A DEFAULT setting smaller random map that's bigger then Navezgane with the option to adjust map sizes without setting server to modded.

[JaxTeller718]

fwiw I don't see an inherent issue with taking out zombie loot, or taking out fat and bones from gore blocks. My major concern is an incentive to fight zombies.

 

Within our current system - assuming the zombies dropped no loot - the only incentive to kill them would be for exp, but what if your spikes are killing zombies? Or your turrets or other traps? Your spikes get destroyed and you waste a bunch of bullets but you get absolutely nothing for it.

 

Now, why bother making a base for 7th night? Why not just get on a minibike and drive until sunrise? Sure - you can easily kill walkers during the day for exp, or clear out a house to loot it, but no point in bothering with a big zombie defense. It just gets destroyed and you get nothing for it.

 

I guess I'm not understanding the design process here to incentivize participation in the most exciting part of the game: horde nights.

 

I think this comment shows how off the rails the game itself has become as a survival or horror game and how people themselves do not truly understand that you were playing an unfinished concept that was a work in progress. While it excels at both in my opinion, if your only incentive is to collect loot when killing zombies then that is a failure on the games part in making the zombies an actual threat. As fataal and others have said it wasnt that they intended to deceive, it was that other things needed to be fixed and polished up and implemented before we got to the meat of what this game is truly about. And with the new AI we are finally seeing that vision in all its bloody goodness.

 

The main incentive to kill zombies should be survival. You do not want your base wrecked, and you do not want to die. Zombies are now seen only as loot pinatas to be hunted down and rounded up anyway possible to gather loot, not to disperse a threat or to save your life. As a matter of fact very few kill zombies out of reaction unless a wandering horde shows up. Everything is meticulously planned and A17 is about to drop a bomb on everyone's party when it comes to comfort and ease. Literally no one and nothing is preventing you from gathering the supplies you need to collect a cache of ammo. ESPECIALLY in vanilla where you don't have the limitations some mods put on you like progression gating etc.

 

On our server a good deal of people are annoyed by looting corpses after a certain period of time as zombies are actually a VERY inefficient way of gathering materials. They get way more out of ramboing houses and stores in their purple gear then sitting back and letting spikes destroy a few zombies that may or may not have loot. What this does is force passive players out of their normal tactics and encourages interactive gameplay with the entire environment.

 

It's only my opinion of course, but if i was in charge of development ts actually one of the fist things I would do. Make the zombies a threat, something to be AVOIDED because the risk factor is high. Sneak is going to play a very important role in this Alpha it seems so there is always that option, and that will make gameplay more fun and interesting. We already do this in our mod. A select group of zombies do not drop any loot no matter what but you CAN chop up bodies for bones. Which i agree is also key, and Im sure Pimps have not forgotten we need them.

 

But what do i know. It's not like I run a very successful or popular mod geared to a more survival intensive experience. And while people have issues in some areas with it overall they have a blast playing it. So maybe the Pimps aren't as crazy as one may think with their decisions and their vision. Give it a chance before crucifying it.

 

If anything mods will find a way to put it back the way you like it. Darkness Falls by Khaine and Walkers by Dwall will reach even greater heights because that is the beauty of the whole process. We have options. As for Ravenhearst we won't be adding it back. In our opinion the performance we will gain from this change is 100 percent worth it. Give it a chance before everyone here condemns it.

[Red Eagle LXIX]

So many of the improvements are under the hood and coding changes that I doubt there will be anyone who will look at what they can see on the surface of the game and say that it was equal to what a year of work (in their opinion) should look like. I'm already mentally prepared for the onslaught of salt in that regard. Unfortunately, it will be those same people who will later praise and laud the modders for all their contributions not realizing that it is precisely what TFP did all year that has made it possible for modders to do more than they have ever been able to do in the past.

QFT

 

So many times see people going on about what modders have done and dissing the development team. Fully failing to put into their head that without the functionality the development team put the extra effort and time in to make such mods possible could have been spent instead doing some static single way of doing the game and then getting essentially one static mod-less game.

[TheProphet]

Big maps, tons of POI, nice guns, good pvp, zombies here and there, decent balance between farming, looting, good curve progression from survivor in your underwear to loaded with guns armors and a vehicle.

 

That's it really. That's what's needed.

[Guppycur]

Guppy! How often do I have to tell you? It's not 'simplified', it's called 'streamlining'!

 

StreamerLining? =)

[eidobunny]

(snip)

 

Eh, I mean I like killing zombies, and I honestly see big advantages to "no loot" - or less loot (let's be fair, he did say loot was more rare, not completely eliminated). The biggest advantage being that theoretically the corpse dupe bug is gone for good, and I have always hated not being able to do anything for a good hour after a 7th night other than loot, clean up, and repair. However, now that has turned into just "repair," and therein lies an obvious exploit: just leave your base on horde nights. Or just set up a playground 7th night base, or just hold up in a random PoI, or just drive around on your minibike, or log off (in a mp setting)... You haven't really addressed any of those concerns, not that you have control over development, but just that you ignored the keystone of my perspective in your response. To clarify: killing zombies in a house and getting no loot? Perfectly fine. I'm getting the loot in the house as a reward. Killing zombies wandering around in a forest? Perfectly fine. Just a little bit of combat to spice things up. Horde night comes around, attacks my base, destroys days worth of work and loot, gives me nothing in return - I have a huge problem with this.

 

You see, I'm not gonna be sneaking around while I'm looting. I like running around bashing some zombie heads in and that's not going to stop, loot or no loot. My concern is that in the past, you might set up a base with 200 wooden spikes and 5 turrets loaded with 500 rounds of 9mm, and most of that would be consumed by a nasty horde night. Thankfully, you could loot the zombies and make a solid 30k dukes coins, get a bunch of weapons and ammo, brass, and lead to help replace at least a good portion of what you've lost, and it was fun. Now what. Now you just take the hit and are forced to loot cities and PoIs for several days to recoup? Is that really better than looting the zombies you just killed for 20 minutes? Alternatively, you can just avoid having your base take 7th night damage via the simple gameplay mechanic that zombies don't attack your base, they attack you. So just leave your base. Doesn't sound fun to me, but I haven't given it a shot yet so I'll withhold my ultimate opinion. Right now it's simply a theoretical concern. Either way new strategies will have to be employed on a macro level.

 

Also, in a multiplayer setting the world loot is going to be more competitive than ever. At least if the world was dried up before you could still get key items from zombies. Now what? Some guy playing 24/7 gets all the city loot and that's it; there isn't any more?

[marcusi23]

A17 looks good

 

Ok just finish watching the new video. 95% of it looked good some graphics could use improving but like joel said 7 days not really in it for the beauty.

 

My biggest concern i seen with the video is what many are saying and that's the zombie loot. although after watching the video i understand it improves performance and whatnot and they'll occasionally drop loot. but them dropping the loot is not my problem the loot was the bonus the primary was it confirmed that the zombie was dead. In this video Joel couldnt actually confirm if the zombie was dead without putting a extra shot, arrow or hitting them again with a club. I remember an a early video zombies had health bars if im not mistaken but in this video i didnt see one. maybe they consider putting that back in if it was taken out.

 

Other than that it was pretty fine we did see the bow glitch that im sure Joel took a mental note of and probably looking into that. Not sure if he was playing on the highest quality while recording so the quality could be much better for us gamers. the stamina and health bar will need getting use to. i dont know if i rather like seeing that or seeing i have 150 heath 150 stamina instead.

 

I Am sad its taking longer than i expected its nearly September and now a flood of new games are coming out. And my friends and i may have to put 7 days on a back burner. which all and all may not be a bad thing waited this long right. Because if the game receive some nice patches after release it just will be a much better experience when we do come back.