1.0 (A22) Dev Diary Overflow

[Crater Creator]

8 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

 

You might not have realize just how difficult it was for me in the A22 developer thread not to be smartass and kept responding to the OPs post about chatter with meaningless chatter  😅

 

I appreciate the restraint. 😊 Truly, it helps a lot. Here, the topics can drift more.

[pApA^LeGBa]

6 hours ago, spud42 said:

A21 has perk/magazine crossovers that need to be sorted out for A22. with the cooking magazines the master chef perks are redundant and a waste of points.  Its the same with grease monkey i havent put any points into it and i am only 10 magazines away from building a gyro.  the amount of points to max strength and then grease monkey are better spent elsewhere. I suppose it gives the player a choice . is there any overhaul of the magazine /perk duplications in A22?

 

 

There is no duplication. Those perks don´t unlock recipes. They let you craft faster with less ressources.

[meganoth]

9 hours ago, FranticDan said:

I have to ask, did you watch at 25% speed?
And are we even talking about the same jump attempt? (This all happens very quickly and is easy to miss)

After the "hop" happens, my character continues to run towards the fence, and then as I start to slide along the fence, the reload animation begins.
You can see the moment the "hop" happens when my stamina drops from 79 - 59.
Considering that I continued to run towards the fence after trying to jump, I don't think I was too close to the fence. IMO.

The jump I make during the reloading is not the "hop". You can only half jump while reloading.

 

 

I started a game right now, found a fence and tried to jump over it from a steep angle while being directly at the fence. I could jump over it no problem most of the time, but maybe every 10th attempt I did get the "interrupted jump". It happened most often at fence posts but then I tried to invoke the bug between posts and once it happened there too. I also had the impression it was often the first jump after a pause or the jump with almost full stamina, but I am not sure if I didn't see exceptions to this rule as well.

 

So, to me it looks like a bug.

 

[zztong]

10 hours ago, meganoth said:

Not sure the fence posts have any influence in your jump. There is a good chance a fence has a very simple rectangular collision box.

 

I could see it. Fence posts are a different block that will be set in a different "square." It would be rotated within the square to be flush with the fence boards block which is also rotated to be flush with the fence post. It will be a boundary between two squares, which might also mean the terrain might be slightly different heights on either side of the fence. It could be jumping from low side to high side messes with our visual estimates of distance and the height to clear.

 

IIRC, a fence post is 1/8th of a block. Maybe I'm nuts and it's 1/10th or 1/16th. It would be a "pole" block on the creative menu, IIRC.

 

11 hours ago, FranticDan said:

"Is there specific code that tells the game to keep the players feet firmly on the ground and cost 20 stamina when attempting specific jumps?".
I'm going to assume that no such code exists. Although, actually getting an official answer to this question would be great!

 

That does seem unlikely as something intentionally coded. A combination of circumstances resulting in that outcome could perhaps be a bug, but I'm not sure what those circumstances would be. My first thought would be some kind of keyboard input oddity. I assume a MOUSE DOWN event triggers a jump. Could you get something weird with an immediately following MOUSE UP and another MOUSE DOWN, maybe? I could trigger something like that using AutoHotkey. Maybe a keyboard can be made to do something like that on a partial press?

 

FranticDan, I assume you're just using a keyboard an no other software.

 

10 hours ago, FranticDan said:

I have to ask, did you watch at 25% speed?
And are we even talking about the same jump attempt? (This all happens very quickly and is easy to miss)

 

He's right, it does happen very quickly and I needed 25% speed and three different viewing sessions to zero in on that point. I don't know what to conclude. Too close the fence? Maybe. Some minor depression in the terrain? Maybe. I don't recall looking for a post or even which side of the fence the posts are on. Perhaps a combination of all three?

Edited March 3 by zztong (see edit history)

[FranticDan]

4 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

I started a game right now, found a fence and tried to jump over it from a steep angle while being directly at the fence. I could jump over it no problem most of the time, but maybe every 10th attempt I did get the "interrupted jump". It happened most often at fence posts but then I tried to invoke the bug between posts and once it happened there too. I also had the impression it was often the first jump after a pause or the jump with almost full stamina, but I am not sure if I didn't see exceptions to this rule as well.

 

So, to me it looks like a bug.

 

It is indeed incredibly hard to replicate, and in my experience it happens a lot mid-combat and makes the situation far worse and deadlier.
I appreciate you taking the time to test it!

 

 

3 hours ago, zztong said:

That does seem unlikely as something intentionally coded. A combination of circumstances resulting in that outcome could perhaps be a bug, but I'm not sure what those circumstances would be. My first thought would be some kind of keyboard input oddity. I assume a MOUSE DOWN event triggers a jump. Could you get something weird with an immediately following MOUSE UP and another MOUSE DOWN, maybe? I could trigger something like that using AutoHotkey. Maybe a keyboard can be made to do something like that on a partial press?

 

FranticDan, I assume you're just using a keyboard an no other software.

I don't know what you mean by 'mouse up/down'.
I play with keyboard and mouse. (No other input software)
The only keys I would be pressing when jumping are W + shift and then space to jump

[fyiiamaheavy]

@Laz Man Any plans on making it where you can't read the same magazine twice I think we should only be allowed to read it once and then sale the others. Also is getting 2 crafting books of the same kind intentional when you have loot up to %200

[Old Crow]

1 hour ago, fyiiamaheavy said:

@Laz Man Any plans on making it where you can't read the same magazine twice I think we should only be allowed to read it once and then sale the others. Also is getting 2 crafting books of the same kind intentional when you have loot up to %200

 

You... you know you can already sell books you've already read, right?

[meganoth]

6 hours ago, FranticDan said:

It is indeed incredibly hard to replicate, and in my experience it happens a lot mid-combat and makes the situation far worse and deadlier.

 

One in ten isn't really bad, at least for a tester to ascertain there is a bug. If you want to make sure TFP sees and fixes this you should make a bug report with your and my descriptions how to trigger it.

 

[zztong]

9 hours ago, FranticDan said:

I don't know what you mean by 'mouse up/down'.
I play with keyboard and mouse. (No other input software)
The only keys I would be pressing when jumping are W + shift and then space to jump

 

Oh, I'm sorry. I meant "SPACE UP" and "SPACE DOWN" ... I'm referring to events the operating system sends when you press keys. Applications, like 7d2d see those events and react. Using a program like AutoHotkey, you could send "SPACE DOWN, SPACE UP, SPACE DOWN" really quickly. That would play out much faster then the actual jump takes place.

 

I was guessing you're not using software to trigger a sequence like that and speculating maybe your keyboard could somehow do that if you partially pressed the Spacebar. Then, if that happened, maybe the game would do something weird, like a hop.

[Matt115]

Okay guys : do you think that something is going to change about solar cell? Because it's so hard to find them that even find pearl quality weapon in Bordelands is easier. Yeah are pretty poweful so... maybe good option would if solar cell became T5 quests rewards. what do you think? Because situation about them have to be change in one way (remove) or another ( make them more common)

[BFT2020]

9 hours ago, fyiiamaheavy said:

@Laz Man Any plans on making it where you can't read the same magazine twice I think we should only be allowed to read it once and then sale the others. Also is getting 2 crafting books of the same kind intentional when you have loot up to %200

Yes if you have loot abundance set to 200% you get twice as much loot….you don’t get additional chances for different loot.

[zztong]

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Okay guys : do you think that something is going to change about solar cell? Because it's so hard to find them that even find pearl quality weapon in Bordelands is easier. Yeah are pretty poweful so... maybe good option would if solar cell became T5 quests rewards. what do you think? Because situation about them have to be change in one way (remove) or another ( make them more common)

 

I agree with this sentiment, and would even suggest that the low quality solar cells Q1 and Q2 be available in an earlier loot stages so as to make solar available earlier but also still leave the player in a situation where they have to manage the available power or supplement it with a generator.

 

Right now I do not see "solarCell" listed in loot.xml. I only see it in traders.xml:

 

<item name="solarCell" count="1,3" prob="0.2" quality="3,6"/>

 

And if I understand that correctly, if the row is selected when filling out what a trader has, there's a 20% chance that 1-3 solar cells of quality 3-6 will be available for purchase.

 

How about if quality 1 and 2 might be available in loot, or salvage from a destroyed solar bank, even if rare?

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, zztong said:

 

I agree with this sentiment, and would even suggest that the low quality solar cells Q1 and Q2 be available in an earlier loot stages so as to make solar available earlier but also still leave the player in a situation where they have to manage the available power or supplement it with a generator.

 

Right now I do not see "solarCell" listed in loot.xml. I only see it in traders.xml:

 

<item name="solarCell" count="1,3" prob="0.2" quality="3,6"/>

 

And if I understand that correctly, if the row is selected when filling out what a trader has, there's a 20% chance that 1-3 solar cells of quality 3-6 will be available for purchase.

 

How about if quality 1 and 2 might be available in loot, or salvage from a destroyed solar bank, even if rare?

Only option to get is buy it. Which is pretty strange - like it's just not scrapped idea or still not developed. So i hope that during next Alpha situation will be clear and : 1. Will be realy usable or will be totaly scrapped

[Adam the Waster]

5 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Okay guys : do you think that something is going to change about solar cell? Because it's so hard to find them that even find pearl quality weapon in Bordelands is easier. Yeah are pretty poweful so... maybe good option would if solar cell became T5 quests rewards. what do you think? Because situation about them have to be change in one way (remove) or another ( make them more common)

Tbh I don't really uses solar cells, as a challenge, cuz you basically get infinite power (yes that's the point) 

 

What I really want Is more traps, a more needs for power *cough cough water pump* and a larger power source.  I would rather have 1 large generator with like 1000 power versus having like 4 generators! 

[FramFramson]

Or an upgraded campfire that's electrically-powered.

[Matt115]

24 minutes ago, Adam the Waster said:

Tbh I don't really uses solar cells, as a challenge, cuz you basically get infinite power (yes that's the point) 

 

What I really want Is more traps, a more needs for power *cough cough water pump* and a larger power source.  I would rather have 1 large generator with like 1000 power versus having like 4 generators! 

Well - solar cells could have durability too.

We don't use electricity at all because - 4X4 and bike + two augers is too high gas use to be worthy

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Only option to get is buy it. Which is pretty strange - like it's just not scrapped idea or still not developed. So i hope that during next Alpha situation will be clear and : 1. Will be realy usable or will be totaly scrapped

 

It could be that solar cells were only added to the trader (a looong time ago) to have a sink for the stacks of dukes everyone has in end game. If yes, it is obviously working for some of you. So just get more dukes instead of suggesting they get removed

 

 

 

[SylenThunder]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

It could be that solar cells were only added to the trader (a looong time ago) to have a sink for the stacks of dukes everyone has in end game. If yes, it is obviously working for some of you. So just get more dukes instead of suggesting they get removed

 

 

 

Solar is also basically end-game electricity. When you have a good solar setup, you have electricity with almost zero heatmap buildup. Making solar easier just defeats end-game design.

[Riamus]

Solar could be made to give just as much heat map as a generator if that's something that is felt to be important.  But the thing with generators is that they really are just a micromanagement thing compared to solar.  Solar isn't even really about the free power.  Gas is extremely easy to get by the time you have enough money to get solar up and running, so it's not like there's any challenge to generators by then anyhow.  The main benefit to solar is so you don't have to micromanage your power by refilling the generators all the time.  For those that don't mind that aspect, you can get a lot more power in a lot less space for significantly cheaper by using generators.  Solar already has drawbacks of taking up more space, needing to have sightlines to the sky, and costing an arm and a leg if you can even find them for sale (which is rare).  It's there for people who just don't enjoy refilling generators constantly.  It isn't about not having to get gas for power.  I could easily have a box of stacks of gas cans long before I can get a full solar bank up and running (and I usually need a couple full banks since I build big bases), so gas isn't at all a challenge for using generators by the time you can use solar.

 

In any case, something needs done for making it easier to buy solar cells.  As it is now, it's so rare to find them for sale even if you hit 10 traders every 3 days that I've given up trying and just use the Creative Menu to give myself the solar cells.  If I didn't, I'd probably need to be day 150 before I had a single solar panel fully stocked with level 6 cells and that's rather ridiculous.

[Riamus]

15 hours ago, zztong said:

 

Oh, I'm sorry. I meant "SPACE UP" and "SPACE DOWN" ... I'm referring to events the operating system sends when you press keys. Applications, like 7d2d see those events and react. Using a program like AutoHotkey, you could send "SPACE DOWN, SPACE UP, SPACE DOWN" really quickly. That would play out much faster then the actual jump takes place.

 

I was guessing you're not using software to trigger a sequence like that and speculating maybe your keyboard could somehow do that if you partially pressed the Spacebar. Then, if that happened, maybe the game would do something weird, like a hop.

This is actually something worth considering.  If at all possible, try changing keyboards and see if you experience the same problem.  Some keyboards (or drivers) have been known to have issues when pressing too many keys at the same time (W+Shift+Space could be too much for some or just enough to sometimes run into problems).  It could just be something like that that is causing the problem and not specifically an issue with the game.  I have tried to think of any times when I've had issues jumping in this game and other than if there's something in the way (too close to a wall with a ladder above my head so I'm hitting the bottom of the ladder, or a window frame getting in the way, or something like that), I can't think of any time when I've not done a full jump.  That doesn't mean it hasn't ever happened and I just ignored it, of course.

 

As I mentioned before, I *wish* there was an option to do a normal non-parkour 1m jump when you have high parkour so you can get through some of the POI jumps that don't work very well with high parkour, so I'd actually want to have an option to do a small hop/jump.

[Callum123456789]

correct me if im wrong but im fairly certain none of the electrical banks make any heat, i agree with riamus as it stands solar cells need to be changed to make them worth using the price and rarity of solar cells make them a laughing stock compared to the generator in terms of effort to use/obtain.

Edited March 4 by Callum123456789 (see edit history)

[FranticDan]

 

23 hours ago, zztong said:

I was guessing you're not using software to trigger a sequence like that and speculating maybe your keyboard could somehow do that if you partially pressed the Spacebar. Then, if that happened, maybe the game would do something weird, like a hop.

I don't think it is humanly possible to press spacebar short enough to cause the character to not do a full jump, even with maxed parkour, you will still do a full 3m jump by tapping spacebar . I guess this could be tested with a program that presses a button for you and have the spacebar pressed for 0.01 seconds, and see what happens. I don't have such a program.

 

 

7 hours ago, Riamus said:

As I mentioned before, I *wish* there was an option to do a normal non-parkour 1m jump when you have high parkour so you can get through some of the POI jumps that don't work very well with high parkour, so I'd actually want to have an option to do a small hop/jump.

I think it would be better if parkour unlocked double and triple jumps, that would solve this issue entirely, I personally don't like getting 3m jumps for that reason, 2m is enough for me.

[meganoth]

8 hours ago, Riamus said:

Solar could be made to give just as much heat map as a generator if that's something that is felt to be important.  But the thing with generators is that they really are just a micromanagement thing compared to solar.  Solar isn't even really about the free power.  Gas is extremely easy to get by the time you have enough money to get solar up and running, so it's not like there's any challenge to generators by then anyhow.  The main benefit to solar is so you don't have to micromanage your power by refilling the generators all the time.  For those that don't mind that aspect, you can get a lot more power in a lot less space for significantly cheaper by using generators.  Solar already has drawbacks of taking up more space, needing to have sightlines to the sky, and costing an arm and a leg if you can even find them for sale (which is rare).  It's there for people who just don't enjoy refilling generators constantly.  It isn't about not having to get gas for power.  I could easily have a box of stacks of gas cans long before I can get a full solar bank up and running (and I usually need a couple full banks since I build big bases), so gas isn't at all a challenge for using generators by the time you can use solar.

 

In any case, something needs done for making it easier to buy solar cells.  As it is now, it's so rare to find them for sale even if you hit 10 traders every 3 days that I've given up trying and just use the Creative Menu to give myself the solar cells.  If I didn't, I'd probably need to be day 150 before I had a single solar panel fully stocked with level 6 cells and that's rather ridiculous.

 

At what day would you have a full solar bank if you didn't care about highest quality?

 

 

Edited March 4 by meganoth (see edit history)

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, FranticDan said:

I don't think it is humanly possible to press spacebar short enough to cause the character to not do a full jump, even with maxed parkour, you will still do a full 3m jump by tapping spacebar . I guess this could be tested with a program that presses a button for you and have the spacebar pressed for 0.01 seconds, and see what happens. I don't have such a program.

 

I remember that I could make lesser jumps with parkour perked up by hitting space only for a very short time.

 

[BFT2020]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

 

At what day would you have a full solar bank if you didn't care about highest quality?

 

 

 

For me, solar cells won't have a chance to show up in the trader stock until around Day 45 to Day 50 if I average one level up per day for character and gotten to Tier 4 on the quests.  But the key word here is chance to be in trader stock.  Solar cells (in the Electrical group) only have a 1% chance of being picked and the general traders have 5 to 10 picks from that group.  Trader Bob has 10 to 20 picks from the electrical group.

 

Since this group only picks unique items, your chance of getting the solar cells increase as an item is removed from the group as a choice, but even after 9 picks (and lets assume you got only items with a probability of 1 - best - to that point), your chance on the next pick is only 2% and you can get 1-3 solar cells.

 

That group has 21 unique items in it and unlike other groups that phase out lower level items as you level up your trader stage, they never get phased out.  So even if you are at the highest tier for electrical items with the trader, solar cells are still competing (badly) with switches, trip wire posts, pressure plates, , relays, speakers, lanterns, and lights (all Tier 1 in trader stage).

 

I have not yet gotten solar power up and running in any of my A21 playthroughs (and I prefer to eventually get to solar power).  I don't mind a challenge in getting something, but it feels like after doing a lot of work to advance with the trader, I don't have better odds on getting the solar cells if I just ignored all of their quests.

 

Which is why I have added the ability to craft solar banks and cells if you get your electrician crafting skills up very high.  Still takes some work, but at that point, you have the option of crafting them if you are constantly seeking out those types of crafting magazines.