Will this game ever be better?

[ReadyPlayer]

Just recently started playing with 5 friends and never have I experienced so much lag from any other game than this one. Every horde night, or even Tier V POIs everyone's PC halts to a crawl and this is even at extremely low settings. Heck my Fallout 4 save with more than 500+ mods runs better than this! Even our minecraft server with huge mods and contraptions runs better.

 

I've dug a bit deeper and found out devs keep changing the core mechanics of this game and that it's been on Alpha for almost 10 years now, just why? We've been enjoying this game but optimization issue, lag, and the upcoming change to the system will probably kill our game time. Is there any plan to fix the optimization issue? How about the other mechanics? Are they gonna change it again? All this new info about the development history of the game makes me feel so depressed as a player. 

[Melange]

Well, I've done this game since its inception. Lots of hours. Have had, and continue to have lots of enjoyment in both SP and MP. Lag in the cities? Yes. And they are working on it (so say the forum comments). Are they gonna change the way we interact with the game (again)? Yes. And the devs have done so many times before. Depression? How about anticipation? Hey, you can always quit playing and deprive yourself of new things to find out about the new mechanics of 7dtd. Or moan about what we don't even know what's coming. Or just play something ya know but is really boring to you. 

 

Well it is not unplayable, and ya gotta admit its a cool concept despite its lag. Perfect for now? Nope. A good time? Absolutely imho. Let's see how it pans out. I for one, can't wait for A21. Glitches and all. THEN tell us about it. None of us were perfect at 10 years of development, although many expected it. And its a game my friend. A computer world where we spend time learning what works and what doesn't work so good.

 

Take the frustration out on the next zed that crosses your path. I guarantee you'll like that sensation. Have fun with it, warts and all.

 

[8_Hussars]

To me Early Access means I am along for the indie developers ride wherever it goes.  I am good with that, even If I like/do not like specific changes as they roll out.  I can get on/off the ride anytime.  I have cautious optimism the game will be optimised for Gold Release at some point.

I guess I don't get the angst of 7D2d not being a rushed and over-monetised triple A title yet... and why it even matters to most.      

[BFT2020]

2 hours ago, ReadyPlayer said:

Heck my Fallout 4 save with more than 500+ mods runs better than this! Even our minecraft server with huge mods and contraptions runs better.

 

You lose all validity if you think comparing Fallout 4 or Minecraft to 7 Days to Die is Apples to Apples.

[pApA^LeGBa]

@ReadyPlayer Are you using a dedicated server or is someone hosting the game on their PC? If someone hosts it on their PC that´s most likely the problem.

 

We are 4-5 people, using a dedicated server from G-Portal, and it runs just fine. Hordenight does have lower FPS and there is drops when downtown in cities aswell. Other than that i have stable 60FPS. I don´t have a high end PC and i play on high settings.

[Star69]

Rented server, 16 zeds/player=no lag whatsoever. I agree with @pApA^LeGBa that you need to have a dedicated server to avoid lots of lag. Optimizations happen with each alpha and usually are pretty significant but they are also making the game prettier and better. Load up alpha 6 and tell me there haven’t been any optimizations. It’s been 10 years because this team started with a small number of employees….nowhere near a company like Bethesda who have hundreds of employees. As a zombie, horror, survivor, tower defense game with a 100% destroyable world….there is no game out there that comes close to this game. Enjoy the ride or go play something else until the game goes gold. /shrugs

[ReadyPlayer]

 

On 7/20/2022 at 1:52 PM, Melange said:

Well, I've done this game since its inception. Lots of hours. Have had, and continue to have lots of enjoyment in both SP and MP. Lag in the cities? Yes. And they are working on it (so say the forum comments). Are they gonna change the way we interact with the game (again)? Yes. And the devs have done so many times before. Depression? How about anticipation? Hey, you can always quit playing and deprive yourself of new things to find out about the new mechanics of 7dtd. Or moan about what we don't even know what's coming. Or just play something ya know but is really boring to you. 

 

Well it is not unplayable, and ya gotta admit its a cool concept despite its lag. Perfect for now? Nope. A good time? Absolutely imho. Let's see how it pans out. I for one, can't wait for A21. Glitches and all. THEN tell us about it. None of us were perfect at 10 years of development, although many expected it. And its a game my friend. A computer world where we spend time learning what works and what doesn't work so good.

 

Take the frustration out on the next zed that crosses your path. I guarantee you'll like that sensation. Have fun with it, warts and all.

 

 

Nah, just gonna have fun with friends until we find another game. From everyone else's replies in this forum it really seems like everyone is just satisfied with the current state of things. I'm not asking to rush things either for a Triple A release. Considering all these, this game will probably not leave this state for the next 2 - 5 years. Hopefully by that time something better that has a similar genre to this game comes out.

On 7/20/2022 at 2:02 PM, 8_Hussars said:

To me Early Access means I am along for the indie developers ride wherever it goes.  I am good with that, even If I like/do not like specific changes as they roll out.  I can get on/off the ride anytime.  I have cautious optimism the game will be optimised for Gold Release at some point.

I guess I don't get the angst of 7D2d not being a rushed and over-monetised triple A title yet... and why it even matters to most.      

Not really asking for a rushed triple A title, at almost 10 years of development you'd expect something more than what it has.

[meganoth]

4 hours ago, ReadyPlayer said:

Not really asking for a rushed triple A title, at almost 10 years of development you'd expect something more than what it has.

 

Maybe. But did you take into account that this is still a small indie company and that it is unusual in that ALL its development history was in public?

 

I do think 10 years is one of the longest development times you can find for a game. But consider that (very roughly) a game some company could develop in 5 years would take 10 years for a company with only half the developers. (It doesn't exactly work that way, smaller groups tend to be more efficient).

 

Personally I think the game was planned to be much smaller when they launched the kickstarter. But with the success in Early Access they wanted the game to become bigger and graphically on a higher level. Which is a problem for a voxel game as graphics engines are not designed for that and they had to cope with a lot of time consuming problems and limits a "normal" game never encounters

 

 

 

 

 

[Laz Man]

It's worth mentioning that the owners stated in a previous dev blogs that the game's scope has grown from its original inception.

 

If my memory is correct, the game was intended to have Quake graphics and nothing more then that.

 

Obviously, we are way past that point now.  There definitely had been a few detours along the way but the finish line is finally in sight.

 

Starting the game at A6 myself, the ride has definitely been worth it to me.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Laz Man (see edit history)

[unholyjoe]

agreed @Laz Man

 

i was introduced to the game mid a4 and i was seriously ready to uninstall it as i do not like lego style terrain and or characters/npcs. i seen their goals were changing and what they were wanting it to look like and the prospect of game having graphics comparable to quake was enough to keep me...

 

yes i had to eventually buy a computer that could handle the graphics (take my word for it... the compy i had was a step below the wristwatch power).

 

but yes its been a nice ride with and without the bumps....

 

i just hope i can get my moneys worth from this game after over 14K hours. (yes that was just me being me).

[Matt115]

7 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Maybe. But did you take into account that this is still a small indie company and that it is unusual in that ALL its development history was in public?

 

I do think 10 years is one of the longest development times you can find for a game. But consider that (very roughly) a game some company could develop in 5 years would take 10 years for a company with only half the developers. (It doesn't exactly work that way, smaller groups tend to be more efficient).

 

Personally I think the game was planned to be much smaller when they launched the kickstarter. But with the success in Early Access they wanted the game to become bigger and graphically on a higher level. Which is a problem for a voxel game as graphics engines are not designed for that and they had to cope with a lot of time consuming problems and limits a "normal" game never encounters

 

 

 

 

 

Yep that's true. that's why they made overhoul

46 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

 

 

If my memory is correct, the game was intended to have Quake graphics and nothing more then that.

 

 

Not exactly.

Smooth terrain was in locked stage so this could looks more like minecraft. 

1 minute ago, unholyjoe said:

agreed @Laz Man

 

i was introduced to the game mid a4 and i was seriously ready to uninstall it as i do not like lego style terrain and or characters/npcs. i seen their goals were changing and what they were wanting it to look like and the prospect of game having graphics comparable to quake was enough to keep me...

 

yes i had to eventually buy a computer that could handle the graphics (take my word for it... the compy i had was a step below the wristwatch power).

 

but yes its been a nice ride with and without the bumps....

 

 

Well i unistalled because early A6 was so.... random - and depening what do you find in dead body near you spawn you could get easy game or too hard

 

48 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

It's worth mentioning that the owners stated in a previous dev blogs that the game's scope has grown from its original inception.

 

If my memory is correct, the game was intended to have Quake graphics and nothing more then that.

 

Obviously, we are way past that point now.  There definitely had been a few detours along the way but the finish line is finally in sight.

 

Starting the game at A6 myself, the ride has definitely been worth it to me.

 

 

For me... hm i wish this game just stay with A11 graphic. Just add promised things like bandits and in my opinion this could be even better that. If this happend we probably would another game  until now. And at least for another pros would be that this game would be much much less popular so would be much harder and 7dtd2 would have much much darker setting. 7DTD is now just a little to "for everyone" and " safe setting"

[Ramethzer0]

On 7/20/2022 at 2:04 PM, ReadyPlayer said:

Just recently started playing with 5 friends and never have I experienced so much lag from any other game than this one. Every horde night, or even Tier V POIs everyone's PC halts to a crawl and this is even at extremely low settings. Heck my Fallout 4 save with more than 500+ mods runs better than this! Even our minecraft server with huge mods and contraptions runs better.

 

I've dug a bit deeper and found out devs keep changing the core mechanics of this game and that it's been on Alpha for almost 10 years now, just why? We've been enjoying this game but optimization issue, lag, and the upcoming change to the system will probably kill our game time. Is there any plan to fix the optimization issue? How about the other mechanics? Are they gonna change it again? All this new info about the development history of the game makes me feel so depressed as a player. 

Welcome to the forums.

How familiar are you with how the game actually works?  Also, its pretty common knowledge (and im sorry you come into this late) that the game has not been fully optimized for everything, and its been discussed that high end machines are not well suited to run a game of this calibre.

 

When you say 'keep changing' you're really oversimplifying what's happened in the history of its development.  There have some core changes, but as the devs ambitions for the game continue to grow, so does the work necessary to make those changes work when stable versions are put out for public consumption.  It is realistically okay to put the game down until it comes into a focus you can roll with.  Many here have done so already, including myself.

 

As for the rest of the answers you need, there are plenty of people more qualified to answer them, but the best method is to just keep your ear to the door and check up every now and then and see if its going in a direction you like.

 

Also:  Really?  Like actual depression?

Edited July 22, 2022 by Ramethzer0 (see edit history)

[Maharin]

This game will never be better than the last alpha you loved.

 

It's true.  I've proved it with this formula:

 

[Matt115]

16 hours ago, Ramethzer0 said:

Welcome to the forums.

How familiar are you with how the game actually works?  Also, its pretty common knowledge (and im sorry you come into this late) that the game has not been fully optimized for everything, and its been discussed that high end machines are not well suited to run a game of this calibre.

 

When you say 'keep changing' you're really oversimplifying what's happened in the history of its development.  There have some core changes, but as the devs ambitions for the game continue to grow, so does the work necessary to make those changes work when stable versions are put out for public consumption.  It is realistically okay to put the game down until it comes into a focus you can roll with.  Many here have done so already, including myself.

 

As for the rest of the answers you need, there are plenty of people more qualified to answer them, but the best method is to just keep your ear to the door and check up every now and then and see if its going in a direction you like.

 

Also:  Really?  Like actual depression?

Well in theory - plans were much diffrent how this game will looks like =  so maybe he expect that will have A11 graphic etc. so in this case --> 7dtd would be finished long time ago.

 

i know you asked him but. Yes this is working in that way. If everything is bad you want at least one positive  thing right

10 hours ago, Maharin said:

This game will never be better than the last alpha you loved.

 

It's true.  I've proved it with this formula:

 

Wrong until A14 things get better with every another alpha!

[Pernicious]

On 7/23/2022 at 10:59 AM, Maharin said:

This game will never be better than the last alpha you loved.

 

It's true.  I've proved it with this formula:

 

 

Only when "n" is a real number. If you start with "n" as the square root of a negative number, i.e. an imaginary number, I found that eventually, after applying enough iterations of your formula, we'll actually be living in Navezgane and loving it!

 

[enkephalin07]

I wouldn't mind if development stayed in alpha, so I don't get excited about suggestions or speculations of a full release. That said, I think optimization does need to get on the development arc. I prefer playing on a laptop that's more powerful than my desktop but unfortunately has integrated graphics, yet still performs smoothly with most Unity and Unreal Engine games. Even GTA5 and Conan Exiles run smoothly on this, but 7dtd is terribly unstable. While I can often get good performance, the game intermittently and spontaneously freezes, which I could tolerate if it didn't abort my Tier4-5 jobs so often, not to mention misplace my vehicles. If the freezes can't be eliminated soon, then at least develop more crash protection for SP hosts, so we can at least resume jobs.

[Roland]

If the OP could just answer the pertinent question of whether this was hosted on one of the player's computers or whether this was a dedicated server you all joined, we could offer some better advice on how to improve the play experience. My gut tells me the OP just came on to throw some shade and doesn't really care about improving the play experience but I would be happy to be mistaken.

[Apocalipservice]

55 minutes ago, Roland said:

If the OP could just answer the pertinent question of whether this was hosted on one of the player's computers or whether this was a dedicated server you all joined, we could offer some better advice on how to improve the play experience. 

 

It is a super friendly and helpful community - I've been in some that were not. It's an early access game not the 4th in a series from Bethesda FFS - it or a server might need tweaking - get used to that or don't play early access games. Folks will gladly (or grumpily) help but they need some info. 

 

[Maharin]

I'm not sure if what I provide is helpful, but I do offer it freely. 

[Star69]

35 minutes ago, Maharin said:

I'm not sure if what I provide is helpful, but I do offer it freely. 

Really? I charge $50 per piece of advice…..you’re too cheap!  😜

[Ramethzer0]

On 7/22/2022 at 7:59 PM, Maharin said:

This game will never be better than the last alpha you loved.

 

It's true.  I've proved it with this formula:

 

 

[Ripflex]

On 7/20/2022 at 3:04 PM, ReadyPlayer said:

Just recently started playing with 5 friends and never have I experienced so much lag from any other game than this one. Every horde night, or even Tier V POIs everyone's PC halts to a crawl and this is even at extremely low settings. Heck my Fallout 4 save with more than 500+ mods runs better than this! Even our minecraft server with huge mods and contraptions runs better.

 

I've dug a bit deeper and found out devs keep changing the core mechanics of this game and that it's been on Alpha for almost 10 years now, just why? We've been enjoying this game but optimization issue, lag, and the upcoming change to the system will probably kill our game time. Is there any plan to fix the optimization issue? How about the other mechanics? Are they gonna change it again? All this new info about the development history of the game makes me feel so depressed as a player. 

 

I agree 100%, and this is coming from a player of 7 days ti die with THOUSANDS of hours into it.  I have repeatedly posted to optimise their game in a build - and the defenders of 7 days retort with "It's Alpha" as their only defense.  If this game really just optimised and intended for 4 players, then why are Servers needed ?  Start a game fill in 3 players slots and go ?   And constantly redoing core mechanics translate a very green dev crew, in the past anyways - they have a larger team now.  It's always good to have a solid core mechanic and leave it be to actually finish the game.  It would of just taken them 5 years tbh.  But it is what it is.

 

This is just my observation over the years and my opinion.

[Roland]

4 minutes ago, Ripflex said:

I have repeatedly posted to optimise their game in a build - and the defenders of 7 days retort with "It's Alpha" as their only defense.

 

First of all, they HAVE been optimizing the game but they are also adding things to the game still so gains in performance are often spent in order to get the next feature in. Once the game is feature complete then all optimizations will be 100% for increasing performance. The game is almost feature complete so we are close.

Second of all, the defenders of 7 Days aren't involved AT ALL with optimizing the code. Whether they retort with "It's Alpha" or join you with "FIX IT NOW!!!!" the optimizations will not proceed any faster.

 

9 minutes ago, Ripflex said:

If this game really just optimised and intended for 4 players, then why are Servers needed ?

 

When you host the game on the same computer you are playing on you significantly increase the load on that computer. If you look at the required specs listed on Steam for the game it notes that when hosting a game on the same machine you are using to play you need to double the listed requirements. A dedicated server takes a huge load off of the host so that the game runs smoother for everyone. The other advantage of a dedicated server is that anyone can join the world and play at any time. Hosted games can only be played when the host is playing. So if I am hosting and want to go to bed but my three buddies still want to play, they can't if I log off and go to sleep. But on a dedicated server, they could keep playing without me.

 

Finally, this game is intended for up to 8 players.

 

14 minutes ago, Ripflex said:

Start a game fill in 3 players slots and go ? 

 

Sure. Just make sure that the person with the best rig, most stable internet connection, and most flexible and open schedule for gaming among you is the host.

 

16 minutes ago, Ripflex said:

And constantly redoing core mechanics translate a very green dev crew

 

Actually just realizing that 7 Days to Die is their very first game could get you to that conclusion.

[Ripflex]

I appreciate you for responding to my criticism Roland.   Thank you.

 

[Matt115]

On 7/26/2022 at 9:46 PM, Roland said:

 

Actually just realizing that 7 Days to Die is their very first game could get you to that conclusion.

I think he mean that devs are lizards from spaces you know.....

Edited July 28, 2022 by Matt115 (see edit history)