Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[hiemfire]

2 hours ago, Laran Mithras said:

Choices could be to lower the difficulty

Unless they changed it and I missed it, all changing the difficulty does is change the amount of damage the player and enemies (zombies, bears, dogs , etc.) do. The Game Stage reference for difficulty is set to 1.2 iirc.

[Roland]

35 minutes ago, Old Crow said:

 

There was no reason to add it in the first place though, that's my point.

How do you know?  If the hunger rate has been manageable but present at current settings for the last few years then perhaps there was a need because now it is better balanced than it was. 

[beerfly]

1 hour ago, Old Crow said:

 

It's not even a matter of whether or not it mirrors reality. A "much-needed food sink?" Really? As if we don't already burn through it exploring, looting, questing, mining/harvesting, fighting zombies and animals, and just moving around.

 

That reasoning is an nonsensical as the "We want players to engage with zombies" explanation I got the other day regarding dew collectors generating heat activity. WE ALREADY ENGAGE WITH ZOMBIES. A LOT.

If these things bother you wait till bandits join us. The "heat" is what makes us find ways to survive and move on. 

Also balance is a process till gold version. 

 

Enjoy and have fun till then. And have much more after. 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 1, 2023 by beerfly (see edit history)

[zztong]

6 hours ago, Roland said:

I hope I'm not ruining driving for you if you didn't know this but....When you drive and especially when you press the shift button to increase your top speed it drains your hunger bar at a greater rate. Same type of thing.

 

Really? I assumed it drained gasoline faster. So, if it makes me hungrier, does it not drain gasoline faster?

[beerfly]

27 minutes ago, zztong said:

 

Really? I assumed it drained gasoline faster. So, if it makes me hungrier, does it not drain gasoline faster?

Yeah, it drains gas a bit faster when using boost with shift key. Same as when we use the pedal thing and sucks our stamina off. 

Edited July 2, 2023 by beerfly (see edit history)

[Numberz]

 

Hello,

 

Are there any plans to increase the block limit from 32K before gold?

 

With all of the added shapes into the shapes menu, I was able to reach 32K pretty quickly just adding a few new "shapes" types/textures.

 

 

 

[jorbascrumps]

2 hours ago, Old Crow said:

There was no reason to add it in the first place though, that's my point.

 

The point is you didn't realize it was a thing until recently so obviously it had little impact on your gameplay, just as whatever you're upset about now likely won't be noticed by most players - or you if you hadn't read the patch notes. The game has to have some mechanics running in the background to propel gameplay forward, all of which will feel artificial if you look under the hood.

 

I really feel like you'd enjoy the game more if you stopped analyzing every change or waited for the game to be finished. You're always on here complaining about something or other.

[Riamus]

48 minutes ago, Numberz said:

 

Hello,

 

Are there any plans to increase the block limit from 32K before gold?

 

With all of the added shapes into the shapes menu, I was able to reach 32K pretty quickly just adding a few new "shapes" types/textures.

 

 

 

A few?  According to my logs (vanilla A21 stable), I'm using just over 22k.  I'd say 10k is more than a few.  If you're using an overhaul mod that adds a ton of blocks, then that is probably the reason.  Still, it would probably be worth increasing this but I'm not sure they'll do that as they are trying to remain within a certain level of resources so it works on console and more people can play the game.  I don't know how much effect increasing it would have on that.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[Roland]

2 hours ago, zztong said:

 

Really? I assumed it drained gasoline faster. So, if it makes me hungrier, does it not drain gasoline faster?

Let’s put it this way: It costs you more food, gas, and possibly repair kits for the privilege of speeding during the apocalypse. 😀

Edited July 2, 2023 by Roland (see edit history)

[Old Crow]

3 hours ago, jorbascrumps said:

 

The point is you didn't realize it was a thing until recently so obviously it had little impact on your gameplay, just as whatever you're upset about now likely won't be noticed by most players - or you if you hadn't read the patch notes. The game has to have some mechanics running in the background to propel gameplay forward, all of which will feel artificial if you look under the hood.

 

I really feel like you'd enjoy the game more if you stopped analyzing every change or waited for the game to be finished. You're always on here complaining about something or other.

 

So we should only heap mounds of praise on the devs for doing weird nonsensical things? Gotcha.

[vergilsparda]

a really cool addition to the dew collector would be making it work faster based on if its raining or not; i mean it makes practical sense that it would fill up more (and yes i'm aware rainwater is not actually fully drinkable, but it's a game, yknow? maybe it could switch to murky water if it rains or something, water you have to cook. idk).

 

based on that it would also be super cool if you could get a small sneak buff based on whether or not it's storming because of the noise of the storm masking your noises (it definitely does for the zombies LOL).... and the fact that being wet would muddy your 'scent'

 

but I have no idea if either is even possible, I've tried myself a few times but I am not very smart when it comes to xpathing buffs lol

[meilodasreh]

9 hours ago, Laran Mithras said:

crafting progression is being outpaced by the progression in gamestage mobs.

So, IOW, T1-2 weapons vs T4 mobs.

Weapon tiers were never intended to match "opponent tier".

In fact what was intended is, that the game should be harder in A21, which is achieved by - amongst many other things - slower progression, considering also your armament.

I have to say this is one point I like very much in A21.

I don't see it as "now it's too slow", but "it was too fast before".

 

Yes of course one does feel somewhat "limitied" in A21, but that's just because you "insist" to play A21 how you're used to play A20.

Yes, you still progress fast through the trader quests and therefore get into the higher tier quests, that are now far more challenging, as you noticed.

But you don't necessarily have to accept these quests when you realize that they "outpace" your current state of equipment.

Do accept them if you like the challenge and are willing to make the effort.

If not, you can always stay to the lower tier quests and pois until you are better prepared for the tougher stuff.

 

 

[khzmusik]

51 minutes ago, vergilsparda said:

a really cool addition to the dew collector would be making it work faster based on if its raining or not; i mean it makes practical sense that it would fill up more (and yes i'm aware rainwater is not actually fully drinkable, but it's a game, yknow? maybe it could switch to murky water if it rains or something, water you have to cook. idk).

 

I have a mod that does the rain bit. (TFP don't really want this thread turning into a mods discussion, so just look in the Mods section of the forum.) It does require C# changes though.

 

It isn't possible right now to have the dew collector fill up with more than one type of item, so you'd have to make it fill up with murky water all the time (or just leave it as it is). That's a pretty trivial XML change, I'm going to make a separate mod that does it. (This would be in return for the dew collectors not generating any heat - the heat would all come from the campfires when boiling murky water to clean water.)

 

EDIT: I realized this sounds like I'm advertising my mods. I was trying to get the point across that this stuff can be modded in. There are a bunch of other dew collector mods out there if you look, and I recommend you do.

Edited July 2, 2023 by khzmusik (see edit history)

[Sephiroth87xz]

10 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:

Weapon tiers were never intended to match "opponent tier".

In fact what was intended is, that the game should be harder in A21, which is achieved by - amongst many other things - slower progression, considering also your armament.

I have to say this is one point I like very much in A21.

I don't see it as "now it's too slow", but "it was too fast before".

 

Yes of course one does feel somewhat "limitied" in A21, but that's just because you "insist" to play A21 how you're used to play A20.

Yes, you still progress fast through the trader quests and therefore get into the higher tier quests, that are now far more challenging, as you noticed.

But you don't necessarily have to accept these quests when you realize that they "outpace" your current state of equipment.

Do accept them if you like the challenge and are willing to make the effort.

If not, you can always stay to the lower tier quests and pois until you are better prepared for the tougher stuff.

 

 

 

There is only a problem in this theory.

 

Crafting weapons/tools progression is slower compared to enemies progression.

 

Trader/quests/loot weapons/tools progression is alot faster than enemies progression.

 

Even the quests tier can't keep up with how fast weapons/tools progress with trader/quests/loot.

 

The trader offered me a .44 magnum quality 2, when i still crafting normal pistol quality 4, with quest level 3 which i can clean them easily with only a hunting knife level 2.

 

So no isn't about challenge.

 

Crafting quality progression is slower than Trader/loot/quests.

 

Trader/loot/quests make the game too much easy to be a main part of the game.

 

So there is a unbalanced situation.

 

Now is intentional because developers want to people stop using crafting for weapons/tools or is an error of balancing?

 

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Sephiroth87xz (see edit history)

[Jost Amman]

14 minutes ago, Sephiroth87xz said:

Crafting quality progression is slower than Trader/loot/quests.

I know my experience is anecdotal, but I've noticed this too.

 

Edit: I'm playing with standard setting BUT 120 mins/day on Warrior dif.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Jost Amman (see edit history)

[meilodasreh]

31 minutes ago, Sephiroth87xz said:

The trader offered me a .44 magnum quality 2, when i still crafting normal pistol quality 4, with quest level 3 which i can clean them easily with only a hunting knife level 2.

Stuff will start to show up in the trader's inventory when you reach a certain gamestage.

Balancing this is a problem because of all these modifiers like biome, candys, glasses, books,...so yes you can regularly get lucky to get a very good reward for your quests.

Though the example with the magnum, I'm not quite sure if this is really a big jump 🤔

A tier4 pistol should have one more mod slot, and also a bigger magazine capacity. So damage output over "longer time" (not just per bullet) should not be that "outpacingly lower" compared to the magmun. And taking into consideration that you should be notoriously low on magnum ammo also, I guess you wouldn't say "oh now I've got a magnum, great, I will only use this from now, what a gamechanger"

The pistol should be the thing one would normally stick to for quite a bit, and save the magnum just for "oh sh$%" situations.

Edited July 2, 2023 by meilodasreh (see edit history)

[Sephiroth87xz]

17 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:

Stuff will start to show up in the trader's inventory when you reach a certain gamestage.

Balancing this is a problem because of all these modifiers like biome, candys, glasses, books,...so yes you can regularly get lucky to get a very good reward for your quests.

Though the example with the magnum, I'm not quite sure if this is really a big jump 🤔

A tier4 pistol should have one more mod slot, and also a bigger magazine capacity. So damage output over "longer time" (not just per bullet) should not be that "outpacingly lower" compared to the magmun. And taking into consideration that you should be notoriously low on magnum ammo also, I guess you wouldn't say "oh now I've got a magnum, great, I will only use this from now, what a gamechanger"

The pistol should be the thing one would normally stick to for quite a bit, and save the magnum just for "oh sh$%" situations.

 

Is not a matter of luck when you regularly get from trader list, quests and even loot weapons and tools 3-5 quality higher than the crafting.

 

And from weapons class i don't have any perks.

 

I playing knife pistol only and i have found multiple first/second tier quality 3-5 rifle and shotgun.

 

In loot i found only 2 pistol and one knife and from trader only the magnum.

 

I surpassed 50 days so the situation is start to be really clear.

 

Can be luck one, two, three times, but after dozens of times, there is a precise "scheme".

 

A good balanced game shouldn't have a so different progression between main parts of the game.

 

Now the question is, crafting for weapons/tools is still a main part for developers?

33 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

I know my experience is anecdotal, but I've noticed this too.

 

Edit: I'm playing with standard setting BUT 120 mins/day on Warrior dif.

 

I was playing all standard too except the airdrop disabled, loot respawn disabled and the difficulty, not sure the english name, the one before the maximum difficulty.

 

Now i want to check how much gamestage influence traders/quests/loot compared to crafting and lowered the lenght of day to 20 min.

 

In this way i even hope to raise the difficulty raising the gamestage more quickly.

Edited July 2, 2023 by Sephiroth87xz (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

38 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:

Stuff will start to show up in the trader's inventory when you reach a certain gamestage.

Actually, it is not Gamestage but depends on the Traderstage. This is a separate value that is based on your level, the quest level at this trader and the Daring Adventurer level. 

 

WaywardEko made a video that explains it more in detail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLvOtD7Uv14

There is a pinned comment below the video that corrected for an error in the calculations.

 

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by RipClaw (see edit history)

[Sephiroth87xz]

19 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

Actually, it is not Gamestage but depends on the Traderstage. This is a separate value that is based on your level, the quest level at this trader and the Daring Adventurer level. 

 

WaywardEko made a video that explains it more in detail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLvOtD7Uv14

There is a pinned comment below the video that corrected for an error in the calculations.

 

 

Whatever is the way is calculated isn't in line with the progression of crafting/magazine system.

So or crafting/magazine system is too slow, or trader/loot/quests system is too quick.

 

This if for Developers Crafting is still a main system for weapons and tools progression.

 

After all how a system is balanced depend all on how much is important in the game for developers.

 

Developers should clarify this situation.

 

There is balance problem or crafting isn't meant to be a way to keep weapons and tools upgraded, not even in the starting stage of the game?

Edited July 2, 2023 by Sephiroth87xz (see edit history)

[faatal]

42 minutes ago, Sephiroth87xz said:

Developers should clarify this situation.

 

There is balance problem or crafting isn't meant to be a way to keep weapons and tools upgraded, not even in the starting stage of the game?

Balance is not done and will continue to change right up to gold.

[Sephiroth87xz]

6 minutes ago, faatal said:

Balance is not done and will continue to change right up to gold.

 

Thanks for the answer.

 

I hope to see in future a more similar progression between crafted weapons/tools and weapons/tools obtained from trader/loot/quests.

 

Edited July 2, 2023 by Sephiroth87xz (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

5 hours ago, Sephiroth87xz said:

 

Now is intentional because developers want to people stop using crafting for weapons/tools or is an error of balancing?

 

 

They overhauled the crafting system based on player feedback for those that enjoy that part of the game.  That implies that they want people to craft if they so choose.

 

Balancing is always going to be a challenge as players who always want crafting levels to be higher than looted /trader items will be in conflict of those that wants to find it in loot.

 

You also pointed out that you have no weapon perks, which will slow progression even further.  I have perks in archery, knives, and pistols, and I been finding those weapons, parts, and magazines more in loot than the other weapons.  That is how the game knows how you are playing and increasing the odds of you finding those types of items geared towards your playstyle.

 

you also don’t have to use weapons and equipment you find in loot or traders.  Nothing is preventing you from only using gear you craft yourself.  I do that all the time and it makes the game play exciting.

[meilodasreh]

6 hours ago, Sephiroth87xz said:

And from weapons class i don't have any perks.

Then I guess this is the main thing why your crafting may not at all keep up with trader supplies.

Now with the new magazine system, you will find more magazines according to which perk you invested in.

 

So now you basically don't "adapt/act according" to the new progression system, so you can't really complain that it is not balanced 🤔

Perk into guns and knifes, and you will progress faster into better weapons because you find more magazines.

 

Independent from this, balance will be subject to further changes for quite a long while.

In fact we're out of an experimental alpha for only a few days, where a new progression system was first introduced.

Of course it isn't already perfectly fitting.

It is still an alpha, which really does say "not at all finished/polished" by itself, even when none of the devs would have mentioned it now.

[Callum123456789]

90,894 players on steam right now for 7 days and is currently 9th on the most played steam games....100,000 is getting closer and closer.

[Magnus33john]

Methinks stable should have been pushed back a week to resolve the issues going on. There the crazy world issues where you can be moving along and bounce into something invisible then rocket into the air.

The weird drone issues where they just disappear.

 

Then last but not least the vehicles being all messed up from either too slow or going from too slow all the way through light-speed into plaid is you are using a charger.

Vehicle damage is all over the place making little sense, a 1km a hour brush with a tree can destroy half your car but a full on run in with a iron node and do very little.