The Fun Pimps needs to understand something..

[saoron666]

9 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

The question is not what can I achieve by creating modifications and remaking the game for myself. The question is why TFP doesn't care about those who have learned to play and want difficulties.

 

 

Wow! now that is a man that has visions! man i couldn't say it better.. shakespearean! thats exactly what i want to make as a point but everytime they turn it down by saying "STOP PLAYING" WTH...its like they telling me if you not happy stop playing , instead of giving ppl what they asking for..isnt  this forum made for this? so we make the game better and isnt it made for current players so they give their remarks and 2cents... i dont see a new player coming in the forum before playing the game ...but in this forum its if you dont like it dont play it lmao

[bachgaman]

6 minutes ago, saoron666 said:

 

Wow! now that is a man that has visions! man i couldn't say it better.. shakespearean! thats exactly what i want to make as a point but everytime they turn it down by saying "STOP PLAYING" WTH...its like they telling me if you not happy stop playing , instead of giving ppl what they asking for..isnt  this forum made for this? so we make the game better and isnt it made for current players so they give their remarks and 2cents... i dont see a new player coming in the forum before playing the game ...but in this forum its if you dont like it dont play it lmao

Yes, they do say things like that, but the bitter truth is that even if they didn't say it, you still wouldn't get what you want. Perhaps, if everyone complained with you in one voice, as they are now whining about a new very difficult farming, then someday you would have received a reaction, but this is not the forum. Here you will be showered with @%$# for saying that the bows are terrible, and then madmole will write the same thing and they will rejoice and put a monument to him for it. Any outside opinion is condemned, even if it is impossible to argue with its thesis. Sad, but true.

[Roland]

14 minutes ago, saoron666 said:

 

Wow! now that is a man that has visions! man i couldn't say it better.. shakespearean! thats exactly what i want to make as a point but everytime they turn it down by saying "STOP PLAYING" WTH...its like they telling me if you not happy stop playing , instead of giving ppl what they asking for..isnt  this forum made for this? so we make the game better and isnt it made for current players so they give their remarks and 2cents... i dont see a new player coming in the forum before playing the game ...but in this forum its if you dont like it dont play it lmao

 

I see you don't want to understand. I get it. The reality is not what you want to hear. Its human nature to want to cling to fantasized assumptions than to acknowledge harsh reality.

 

The answer is not that TFP won't ever give options and add features to make the game tougher and fresh and alive again to those of us with 1000+ hours of playing, it is simply that now is not the time because the base default normal game for first-time players is still developing. The type of update you want goes beyond the scope of the basic game. That is just the reality of it. It doesn't matter that it has been 8 years and you've been playing for 100s of hours. It was your choice to start playing the game early. 

 

Do you know what game you aren't getting bored of or thinking that it has gotten too easy? Starfield. You know why? Because they didn't allow early access so all the updates they've done over the past several years were not playable by you. You aren't really aware that the devs of that game are probably not going to add a whole bunch of features designed for 1000+ hour veterans of their game. They are just polishing it up and finishing up the core and basic features needed to release their game. If you could have been playing Starfield for the last several years you would probably be really bored with its current state and disappointed that the devs weren't adding expansion DLC type stuff.

 

But you didn't and so when Starfield comes out and you play it for the first time you will accept it for what it is and look forward to the future updates that will add content and features and options designed for existing owners of the game.

 

Its been a fantastic ride witnessing the development of this game but it does come with a price. When the finalized version of it releases, it isn't going to feel super fresh to those of us who have been playing all along. But hopefully we will get a few expansions that give us exactly what you are wanting.

6 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

Yes, they do say things like that, but the bitter truth is that even if they didn't say it, you still wouldn't get what you want. Perhaps, if everyone complained with you in one voice, as they are now whining about a new very difficult farming, then someday you would have received a reaction, but this is not the forum. Here you will be showered with @%$# for saying that the bows are terrible, and then madmole will write the same thing and they will rejoice and put a monument to him for it. Any outside opinion is condemned, even if it is impossible to argue with its thesis. Sad, but true.

 

I'm glad you have found kindred spirits in each other.

 

What I hear most people saying to you bach is that the devs have priorities and they will fix things in the order that they see fit. Many things you want will get in the game when the devs are ready to do so. I just said that all the features that have experienced players like you in mind will be prioritized after the base game is released. So, yeah, when you make demands for things to happen right now you aren't celebrated but then when Madmole as a developer makes those changes then we celebrate.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Roland (see edit history)

[Pernicious]

RNG is a capricious god. Since A20, I've played 4 games to the first blood moon. (If you must know why, my friends and I are planning a long multi-day gaming session between Christmas and New Year, and I want to know the changes inside and out, and trying different strategies! Yep, I'm a min/maxer).

 

I have to admit, the very first play through, I found a L6 Pipe Baton and a L6 Pipe Pistol in the first POI looted. Literally on the way to the trader - and thought the game had been massively unbalanced. But then, I made it the rest of the way to blood moon without finding anything better than a level 2 stone/pipe weapon.

 

Another time, I found a level 1 iron pickaxe on day 3 or so - Ended up being level 9 by blood moon with a concrete horde night base, when other play throughs I was usually 6-8 with cobblestone and maybe the start of a concrete reinforcement.

 

I don't know what the RNG numbers are behind the scenes - I'm sure a more experienced player will correct me, but usually how it works in games is that items have a number based on their desired level, the user has a base modifier and then a roll. So if say, a steel pickaxe was given number 200, players start with a base of 0, and roll 1-100, it's impossible to roll. However, add some lucky looter, some goggles, some biome bonuses, some container bonuses, some level bonuses, and their base is 100, then there's now a 1% chance (100 base + 100 rolled) that they might get something that appears early.

 

As someone else mentioned before, sometimes there are loopholes, like sneaking into a difficult snow biome to raise your bonuses prematurely. This doesn't really mean the game is unbalanced, or bugged, although most people would call it "bugussing", "abusing the meta". Others complain they get nerfed when devs do something about it 😛

 

To be honest, some times I don't get why people don't just enjoy games for what they are. Life is random, some people have all the luck, others never get a even break. But at the end of the day, I paid $30 for this game. I've played it longer and more hours than 3 months of Netflix. Or two movies in the Cinema, or... literally anything else I spent $30 on. It's not like anyone's laying down their life savings, being forced to play it, or paying out a subscription fee for this game. Just enjoy it - or don't.

[warmer]

56 minutes ago, saoron666 said:

i think adding the pipe wpns from start makes the game just way too easy, especially when you keep finding them everywhere..

like the entire population before turning into zombies had pipe wpns on them lol

 

its one thing to build them but to find them none stop and so much ammo to go with them takes away the fun on even making a xbow or bow..

you do know a lvl1 pipe pistol has less damage than a lvl 3 bow and you can't craft more ammo on the fly without a workbench. Sure its nice, but also draws in zeds for blocks.

 

Regarding difficulty, you where complaining about it being too easy, so I told you how to make it too hard. Be a clever human and find settings in the middle. You only have yourself to blame with SO MANY OPTIONS. most games dont even let you mess with 1/10th the options for gameplay that 7d2d does, and still you aren't satisfied.

 

If you got more than 8 hrs of fun out of it, you have already gotten what you paid for. lol.

[BFT2020]

3 hours ago, saoron666 said:

what what game lol this happened a lot... i seriousely got a lvl 6 steel pickaxe max 1 hr in game from a car before i scavange it.. oh yes and a wrench and hammer before that!

i created the game myself and picked navezgane map. didnt touch any files and it is fresh install.

me and my gf only.

 

If you want for the right now, I am working on a modlet to change how T0 equipment is in the game; though if you are able to get T3 gear in 30 minutes by just going and looting cars in the snow biome, I think I need to look deeper in the loot file also.  
 

But to be honest, I should not have been surprised that you can get a T6 Q6 steel tool in the first day.  it seems that loot has swung hard the other way compared to Alpha19.

[doughphunghus]

5 hours ago, ZehMatt said:

I do sometimes wish all the things that can be found are without a level and rather have a bigger variety of what can be found. Example I can think of would be a Rusty AK 47 that can potentially jam every few bullets or an ordinary one you could get of a trader, perhaps even have a complete failure where the weapon just explodes to pieces and that is the end of it, this would probably make exploration a bit more fun too.

It would be neat if weapons had a lot more “random stats” on them 

like this. If nothing else, besides making it dangerous to use a really bad (stats wise) weapon, you could open up the possibility of having a lot of mods to add to “repair” it’s defects.  You wouldn’t have to add any new graphics another. Just “cracked bat” (degrades 50% faster) and you could add a duct tape mod to make that stat go to 20%. Gun is dirty/bent/misfiring? Add “oil” mod to mitigate some of it.  It would kinda make it feel like the old “gun parts” system except the defects would be random

and not completely repairable without scrapping the weapon for parts and rebuilding.

[Matt115]

4 hours ago, saoron666 said:

 

idk what setting can give you lvl 6 steel shovel or an iron one.. all i did is fresh install, load new game navezgane map and play.. and i play on warrior setting.

only my gf can join the game..

That's just a normal bug- in Bordelands 1 you could get Op gray weapon because something was wrong with numbers

3 hours ago, Roland said:

 

Twitch integration is more than it seems. It is going to be the basis for an upcoming random event generator which will create events and encounters for the player. As for survival balance, once again they aren't balancing it for experienced players. We have to increase the difficulty through settings and edits to the game. That being said, give them a chance to make adjustments. This is only the first iteration of experimental so we can expect adjustments.

Btw: Roland well are random dogs hords events?

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

Meanwhile TFP provided all the options you could ever get and more through modding. 

 

 

Well if i agree with most of your  post that one line is wrong.  I mean : mods are not answer.  Because most people don't have skills to make mods and ofc community can focuse on diffrent things that you want. So this is just bad argument 

2 hours ago, Roland said:

 

The game is going to be very easy for veteran players. To make it hard for veteran players they would have to make it beyond the skill of new players and right now their focus is on creating the base version of the game that is suitable and approachable for new players. That isn't to say that that they should not keep trying to work on balancing things so that it isn't too easy but I think from dev comments that a purple pickaxe on day 1 is not intended. It was a fluke and not representative of the intended design.

Well almost every game ( except RNG focused games) are very easy if you have experience

50 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

 

 

Do you know what game you aren't getting bored of or thinking that it has gotten too easy? Starfield. 

And that is not true because... it can looks boring in even in few gameplays. when i saw first gameplay from Vanguard my first impression was : " this game will be bad and boring"  and after i play this.... i didn't get fun so it was boring from start

[JoeDaFrogman]

2 hours ago, saoron666 said:

 

oh! now you talking.. i like the idea of not being able to spawn or just walk in the snow area on day 1 

i tell you what happened and where it happened, the mansion on top of the hill in the snow area, all the way on top of the mountain there is a mansion..

thats where i went and built my cabin.

Ok, this is important to give context to Roland's answer.  

WHERE did you spawn?  DId you spawn in the forest and wander into the snow biome to where you looted the higher level gear?   

Also, not sure if you know this, but the LOOTSTAGE is now on the player stats screen at the bottom.   You can check both moving to/from a biome as well as some POI's have a lootstage bonus as well as location (IIRC the downtown districts in cities ALSO have a lootstage bonus.   

 

Your day 1 lootstage may go from 1 to 25 simply by moving into Biome X(not actual numbers! just an example)

 

 

 

 

 

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, Pernicious said:

RNG is a capricious god. Since A20, I've played 4 games to the first blood moon. (If you must know why, my friends and I are planning a long multi-day gaming session between Christmas and New Year, and I want to know the changes inside and out, and trying different strategies! Yep, I'm a min/maxer).

 

I have to admit, the very first play through, I found a L6 Pipe Baton and a L6 Pipe Pistol in the first POI looted. Literally on the way to the trader - and thought the game had been massively unbalanced. But then, I made it the rest of the way to blood moon without finding anything better than a level 2 stone/pipe weapon.

 

Another time, I found a level 1 iron pickaxe on day 3 or so - Ended up being level 9 by blood moon with a concrete horde night base, when other play throughs I was usually 6-8 with cobblestone and maybe the start of a concrete reinforcement.

 

I don't know what the RNG numbers are behind the scenes - I'm sure a more experienced player will correct me, but usually how it works in games is that items have a number based on their desired level, the user has a base modifier and then a roll. So if say, a steel pickaxe was given number 200, players start with a base of 0, and roll 1-100, it's impossible to roll. However, add some lucky looter, some goggles, some biome bonuses, some container bonuses, some level bonuses, and their base is 100, then there's now a 1% chance (100 base + 100 rolled) that they might get something that appears early.

 

An interesting system I have seen in RPG loot generators is this: You have lists of items separated by level. And the last entry in every list is special because it instead transports you to the next higher list to get an item from there. Now if you are especially lucky you hit the last entry of that higher list again. And so on and on until you are on the highest list. That way you have a chance at getting even highest end gear, but the chance is really really low at the start.

 

By the way, in older alphas you could get the best items in the game even on day 1, naturally with a low probability. But it still happened too often for a good balance. So they removed that for A19 but there the first two weeks had hundreds of safes and boxes with stone shovels and blunderbusses and a lot of other players complained.

 

So now it seems they changed it back so that you have chances to find anything in the game again. We will have to see if it is too much. Or if biome+POI bonuses are too much

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Pernicious said:

 

As someone else mentioned before, sometimes there are loopholes, like sneaking into a difficult snow biome to raise your bonuses prematurely. This doesn't really mean the game is unbalanced, or bugged, although most people would call it "bugussing", "abusing the meta". Others complain they get nerfed when devs do something about it 😛

 

To be honest, some times I don't get why people don't just enjoy games for what they are. Life is random, some people have all the luck, others never get a even break. But at the end of the day, I paid $30 for this game. I've played it longer and more hours than 3 months of Netflix. Or two movies in the Cinema, or... literally anything else I spent $30 on. It's not like anyone's laying down their life savings, being forced to play it, or paying out a subscription fee for this game. Just enjoy it - or don't.

 

2 hours ago, saoron666 said:

 

Wow! now that is a man that has visions! man i couldn't say it better.. shakespearean! thats exactly what i want to make as a point but everytime they turn it down by saying "STOP PLAYING" WTH...its like they telling me if you not happy stop playing , instead of giving ppl what they asking for..isnt  this forum made for this? so we make the game better and isnt it made for current players so they give their remarks and 2cents... i dont see a new player coming in the forum before playing the game ...but in this forum its if you dont like it dont play it lmao

 

If they "gave people what they are asking for" they would immediately bring back A19 farming. 😄

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[meganoth]

43 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Well if i agree with most of your  post that one line is wrong.  I mean : mods are not answer.  Because most people don't have skills to make mods and ofc community can focuse on diffrent things that you want. So this is just bad argument

 

But if TFP adds options those options may also not be exactly what you want.

[JoeDaFrogman]

For example, specifically, i spawned into Navesgane and teleported from Spawnpoint to spawn point.   

 

• A few are semi close to the snow biome
  • 2 are close(ish) to the house on the hill and ONE of those is perhaps 5 steps into the snow biome

As for lootstage, I spawned near the 

• Burnt Forest: 1->11
• Snow: 1 ->22
• Flew to house on the hill: 1 -> 34!!!!!!!!
• Flew to the wasteland: 1->32 
• Flew to the wasteland Shotgun Messiah factory: 1->47

 

SO YEAH... I agree with Roland's long term approach but in the short term, if you are the type that does NOT want a boost up in the early game, stay in the forest and loot nothing but "normal" houses and you won't get really good gear earlier than you want.   This is new, but hardly new news as the devs have discussed this mechanic for months.

 

 

@saoron666

My initial thought was that the spawnpoints in Nav. were not changed, but there is not a single spawnpoint outside of the forest biome anymore so you choose to head into a higher lootstage location.   As stated above, stay away from higher Lootstage locations if you want a more flat progression as can be seen in the above 10 minutes testing!

 

Edited December 10, 2021 by JoeDaFrogman (see edit history)

[Roland]

58 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

Btw: Roland well are random dogs hords events?

 

Not random events. Wandering hordes are scheduled events. In the future, wandering hordes will most likely be handled by the event manager as well as other types of events as well. Possible scenarios:

 

A group of bandits holding an NPC at gunpoint

An infestation of screamers within a POI

A group of bandits battling a horde of zombies

A pack of dogs attacking an NPC

A wandering horde like we have now

A wandering trader

 

There are all sorts of events that could be created by what we now call twitch integration and players would be free to interact with them or not. Save the NPC or kill him along with all the bandits. These things will be placed in our paths.

 

That's the stated plan at least. Hopefully it will come to fruition.

[Spatch]

I wish I could have played op's game!  I have over 1000 hours in this game before this alpha and just started my first world on this one for single-player.  Normal settings other than nomad instead of adventurer.  First POI - get surrounded in a room by 5 zombos, two of which came from outside.  No pipe weapons, or pipes for that matter, and I died - morning of day 1 - my last playthrough on 19 I played perma-death and quit when I got bored.  This game is no longer easy mode, in my opinion.

I'm turning it back down from nomad to adventurer and starting again, since I like the challenge of perma-death.  However, if I have another death on day 1, I'm going to keep playing until I get better at this alpha.

Props to OP for being WAY better than I am.

P.S. I'd call my play style "capp00-style" - I panic just like he does, and it usually gets me killed! 

[BFT2020]

3 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

If you want for the right now, I am working on a modlet to change how T0 equipment is in the game; though if you are able to get T3 gear in 30 minutes by just going and looting cars in the snow biome, I think I need to look deeper in the loot file also.  
 

But to be honest, I should not have been surprised that you can get a T6 Q6 steel tool in the first day.  it seems that loot has swung hard the other way compared to Alpha19.

 

Ahhhh, I have them at a higher tier than what they actually are.....steel tools are considered T2 not T3.  However, the first opportunity to get Q6 Steel tools is loot stage 116 per the file.  That's a significant jump in loot stage if you can get the chance by Day 1.

[Maharin]

The question to ask is simple... How much worse would the 1.0 of 7DTD have been if TFP had NOT done early access and taken this long to develop it?

 

This game is awesome and will be incredibly awesome by the time it ships.  Those us that have been playing for years are, of course, going to be more challenged to keep finding the fun in the game.  But I can say in my own experience that I have more hours in 7DTD than I have in any 3 other games I've played combined... ever.  Excluding some MMO's in my younger years (I'm looking at you EverQuest 1 and 2).

[Darklegend222]

12 hours ago, saoron666 said:

multiple threads.. answers... ok take action! how much more can we read and ask for same thing over and over again... have you read the threads and what fans want? i dont think you did! because they want more freaking zombies and more challenging environment.. 

you are right Roland, but nearly 10 years later "1.0" ? i mean by the time this game becomes finished, we more likely to be finished as well lmao 

not sure how i dont understand how this works ..

to have a little twitch in the game and make things a little more challenging rather than have guns and ammos 30min-1hr in to the game takes away the "survival game" its supposed to be imo..

 

but who im i to argue lol and i tried the add ons , somehow every mod i tried the zombies became dumb and unresponsive..

i rather play the original version.. 

idk what setting can give you lvl 6 steel shovel or an iron one.. all i did is fresh install, load new game navezgane map and play.. and i play on warrior setting.

only my gf can join the game..

Did you delete all the settings in the launcher under the tools section and delete all the save game, registry and install files specifically for 7 days, then verify integrity of files?

[Feycat]

11 hours ago, bachgaman said:

I have fixed.

 

The question is not what can I achieve by creating modifications and remaking the game for myself. The question is why TFP doesn't care about those who have learned to play and want difficulties.

 

 

Because, contrary to your apparent belief, you're not speaking for the whole player base. You can turn up the difficulty settings, feel free to do that.

[hotpoon]

I both agree and disagree with the OP.

 

There are parts of the game that are unnecessarily easy (not enough zombies) and parts of the game that are unnecessarily tedious (farming , food). For example it is completely absurd that you can make pipe weapons without a schematic but you need a recipe for bacon and eggs.

 

I'm sure the Pimps will realize that at some point, and balance all these things though. They are juggling a lot of aspects of the game, and apart from being a bit slow, they are doing a good job with trying to make the game enjoyable for both newbies and veterans. I consider the more difficult biomes with better loot, a huge step towards making the game organically last longer.

 

We just need to keep providing feedback without being insulting and demandy.

[Matt115]

13 hours ago, Roland said:

 

Not random events. Wandering hordes are scheduled events. In the future, wandering hordes will most likely be handled by the event manager as well as other types of events as well. Possible scenarios:

 

A group of bandits holding an NPC at gunpoint

An infestation of screamers within a POI

A group of bandits battling a horde of zombies

A pack of dogs attacking an NPC

A wandering horde like we have now

A wandering trader

 

There are all sorts of events that could be created by what we now call twitch integration and players would be free to interact with them or not. Save the NPC or kill him along with all the bandits. These things will be placed in our paths.

 

That's the stated plan at least. Hopefully it will come to fruition.

Well this like skyrim or stalker so it is cool. Well  i hope we will get "event POI" in terraria style too -  crashed plane , convoy , hanging fresh corpse on tree etc

13 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

But if TFP adds options those options may also not be exactly what you want.

Thats true but modders can't do everything for example -  they can't do  HD models for characters as example etc 

[MechanicalLens]

On 12/10/2021 at 11:56 AM, Roland said:

 

I don't think they refuted everything he said. They confirmed to him that it wasn't normal to find a T6 pickaxe on Day 1. Its true that they doubted that he was playing vanilla which isn't very nice. Better would have been to say was that it was a bug.

 

The game is going to be very easy for veteran players. To make it hard for veteran players they would have to make it beyond the skill of new players and right now their focus is on creating the base version of the game that is suitable and approachable for new players. That isn't to say that that they should not keep trying to work on balancing things so that it isn't too easy but I think from dev comments that a purple pickaxe on day 1 is not intended. It was a fluke and not representative of the intended design.

 

It could be possible, yes. I went to the wasteland on day 8, loot stage 34 (in the pine forest), and my loot stage shot up to 120-something in the wasteland biome. In one day, this is what I hauled out of it.

 

[Jason Tamosiunis]

On 12/10/2021 at 10:54 AM, BFT2020 said:

Your right, that is not normal.😆

 

What game are you playing, because we must be playing different games.  I am currently waiting on Day 6 to start (I stopped playing night of Day 5) and the best tools I found so far are Q1 iron tools (and 5days in at 1 hour days is 5 hours of game time).

yeah i wanna what place OP is looting that their gettting a lvl 6 steel pick O.o

On 12/10/2021 at 10:54 AM, BFT2020 said:

Your right, that is not normal.😆

 

What game are you playing, because we must be playing different games.  I am currently waiting on Day 6 to start (I stopped playing night of Day 5) and the best tools I found so far are Q1 iron tools (and 5days in at 1 hour days is 5 hours of game time).

i play with loot abundance at 200% to start and im not even finding steel tools

[jeromeN7]

Day 8, I can't find enough food.

[jeromeN7]

Day 9, not even kidding...

Edited December 12, 2021 by jeromeN7 (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

7 hours ago, Jason Tamosiunis said:

yeah i wanna what place OP is looting that their gettting a lvl 6 steel pick O.o

i play with loot abundance at 200% to start and im not even finding steel tools

Loot abundance doesn't affect your loot stage, just how much loot you find.

 

Right now, Biomes and POIs will affect your loot stage.  OP was in the snow biome which gives a large bonus to your loot stage.  Wasteland even more.