Its Annoying That Streamers Get the Game First!

[meganoth]

22 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

Please decide if this was the correct analogy or not. Or is it only right when it suits you? You said that watching 7DTD streams instead of playing 7DTD is the same as watching action movies instead of jumping from the 3rd floor with machine guns. Forgot?

And how would Roland answer, where are the facts, where are the proofs? I'm sure he can, have you done any research?

 

Analogies often show only one thing, I think I made that first analogy to say that you don't have to do something yourself to enjoy watching it.

 

My analogy with sports was to show that you even might like to watch stuff you CAN do yourself.

 

Action movies, sports and comedies are all entertainment. And Streamers can deliver similar "products". Excitement similar to action movies or sports or information will come from watching expert players, but humor will come from watching comedic streamers and nobody expects information when watching a streamer for the humor

 

 

Edited November 9, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Gamida]

3 hours ago, Roland said:

Because it is this awkward time just before a new update where most questions that will be answered have been answered, nobody wants to start a new A19 game and the one they are playing is starting to feel pointless since a restart will be necessary and arguing with anti-streamers before the weekend stream is tradition. 

 

You know I never ever really got that. I mean, I could start a game knowing A20 is coming out tomorrow. I wouldn't lose any enjoyment in the game thinking it was in vain. I would still have fun playing it up until I had to delete it and start a fresh game.

[Roland]

2 hours ago, bachgaman said:

You make it sound like I hate them for no reason. But I don’t care at all, even if they eat @%$#, I don’t care as long as it doesn’t affect me. In this case, it affects me. Therefore, I condemn them. Most streamers are self-serving, fake and greedy lazy people, you can argue or you can not argue. This is a fact that does not require proof, because it follows from logic.

 

 

 

No good reason. Even when you feel hate against someone who has personally harmed you it is better for you to let it go. Hate of any kind is unhealthy. Hatred of a group of people you don't personally know and consistently stereotype and disparage is not really something you should be flaunting. You are absolutely not affected by them in any case. You can still play A19 to your heart's content during that weekend as you can this weekend. While you play A19 this weekend there will actually be a group of people also playing A20. Do they affect you? Do you hate them too because of the terrible assault against you of playing A20 as chosen members of a team to play and report bugs? Its just another group of people who have been chosen to play before you.

 

2 hours ago, bachgaman said:

Where have I stated this? I did not say that the people who are watching are not playing.

 

You don't remember? It was our vocabulary lesson. It's pretty clear what you meant in your disparaging remark about people who prefer to watch rather than play themselves. Its just more false stereotyping.

 

15 hours ago, bachgaman said:

What is the name of when a person likes to observe, and not to do it himself? There is a word for such people

Edited November 9, 2021 by Roland (see edit history)

[bachgaman]

16 minutes ago, Roland said:

No good reason. Even when you feel hate against someone who has personally harmed you it is better for you to let it go. Hate of any kind is unhealthy. Hatred of a group of people you don't personally know and consistently stereotype and disparage is not really something you should be flaunting. You are absolutely not affected by them in any case. You can still play A19 to your heart's content during that weekend as you can this weekend. While you play A19 this weekend there will actually be a group of people also playing A20. Do they affect you? Do you hate them too because of the terrible assault against you of playing A20 as chosen members of a team to play and report bugs? Its just another group of people who have been chosen to play before you.

Hate is okay because it is part of human nature. You can suppress it, but it is still part of you as any other person.

 

Yes, it does affect me. Because I could start the A20 game on Friday and continue until Sunday night, but because of them, I will wait a whole week until next Friday. Therefore, it affects me.

 

Many developers release new patches on Friday evening so people can enjoy the new content on their weekends. But not TFP, TFP is releasing a patch on Friday only for a small number of unemployed people.

 

By the way, it would be fairer to do early access on Wednesday, and universal access on Friday. So that casual players can enjoy the new content this coming weekend.  

3 minutes ago, Roland said:

You don't remember? It was our vocabulary lesson. It's pretty clear what you meant in your disparaging remark about people who watch and not do.

However, I didn’t claim that they don’t play after enjoying someone else playing their wonderful new game. You couldn't catch me. You wishful thinking.

[Roland]

3 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

Hate is okay because it is part of human nature. You can suppress it, but it is still part of you as any other person.

 

It's your emotional funeral dude. Suppression is not the only way to avoid hate. There is also forgiveness which is the healthy alternative to suppression. Of course, that is for the type of hate that usually results in being directly harmed by another. The cure for the prejudice and bigotry type of hate is usually education and understanding which has to be chosen and internalized. Unfortunately, the hater usually believes he already knows the truth and cannot see beyond his narrow spectrum of understanding which is why all members of the hated group are lumped together and stereotyped.

 

11 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

Yes, it does affect me. Because I could start the A20 game on Friday and continue until Sunday night, but because of them, I will wait a whole week until next Friday. Therefore, it affects me.

 

You're just wrong. You were never going to get it Friday. They tried Fun Pimp Fridays early on like in Alpha 7 and figured out that they hated Friday releases and so they stopped-- long before the Streamer weekend started. Friday was never going to be an option for you unless....you got 5k followers on Twitch. You might feel effected but it is all in your mind.

 

14 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

Many developers release new patches on Friday evening so people can enjoy the new content on their weekends. But not TFP, TFP is releasing a patch on Friday only for a small number of unemployed people.

 

Good for those studios. TFP releases on Mondays. period. They soft launch over the weekend and then launch on Monday. Its not the streamers fault. TFP just chose to use them for the soft launching the Friday before.

 

15 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

You couldn't catch me.

 

I think we ALL have caught you in what you are...

[SylenThunder]

I see we've come around to this discussion again. 

 

Lets take a look at reality for a moment. Here is how the process goes.

1. The developer reaches a point where they feel that enough bugs are fixed, and features are completed well enough for a public release.
2. On Tuesday or Wednesday they will alert the streamers, and make an announcement about the upcoming Streamer Weekend.
3. On Friday the will give the streamers the password to the internal testing trunk. They may also be giving out keys for them to give away. (They're already giving out keys quite often in the official Discord as well for the past few weeks, and are likely to continue that. Pay attention if you don't have the game yet, or have friends that still want it.)
4. On the following Monday, (assuming no major game-breaking bugs were discovered by the streamers), the public experimental release will be unlocked. This is NOT a Stable build, and is only for people who want to test and report bugs.
5. Two to three weeks later a20 will drop as a Stable branch for the general public.

 

So if you want in on the earliest possible release, you get it literally just a couple of days after the streamers do. 

A

Couple

Of

Days

 

So taking a look at reality, how much does that really harm you? To not have access to an unstable build for three days.

How is it that you find that offensive?

 

It's not a stable build.

You will experience bugs.

You will probably have to restart several times before even Stable comes out.

You will need to restart when stable does come out. You guys complaining about this are usually also the same guys complaining about having to wipe your saves whenever a new build is released, so that adds even more question to why you're so offended about something this silly.

 

I mean seriously, what is the real argument here.  Boo hoo you don't get access before a handful of other people to something that isn't even finished.

It's almost like complaining that your mother licked the dough off the spoon before she gave you the baked cookies that just came out of the oven.

How do you not see how silly this argument is?

Edited November 9, 2021 by SylenThunder (see edit history)

[Star69]

I mean to yell:

 

EVERY SINGLE GAME THAT IS RELEASED TODAY BY EVERY COMPANY, IS RELEASED EARLY TO A SELECT GROUP OF PEOPLE, USUALLY TO CRITICS THAT WRITE REVIEWS, TFP USES STREAMERS INSTEAD. GET OVER YOUR WHINY SELVES!!!

 

Rant over

 

 

[Lemmers]

18 minutes ago, SylenThunder said:

It's almost like complaining that your mother licked the dough off the spoon before she gave you the baked cookies that just came out of the oven.

How do you not see how silly this argument is?

I actually preferred cookie dough and if my mom didn't set aside a little bowl of it just for me then I'd be pretty upset.

That's it, you've changed my mind. Down with streamers!

[Roland]

1 hour ago, SylenThunder said:

I mean seriously, what is the real argument here.

 

The real agenda is to take an excuse to express disdain and hatred of other people and how they enjoy to spend time. Period.

1 hour ago, SylenThunder said:

They may also be giving out keys for them to give away.

 

They chose to give keys away themselves during their streams instead. They did it last time as well as this time. We won't be giving out game keys to the streamers. Sorry guys.

[SylenThunder]

22 minutes ago, Roland said:

They chose to give keys away themselves during their streams instead. They did it last time as well as this time. We won't be giving out game keys to the streamers. Sorry guys.

I stand corrected.

 

Was that to the right, or to the left?  Maybe take a step back? Up high? down low?

[bachgaman]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

It's your emotional funeral dude. Suppression is not the only way to avoid hate. There is also forgiveness which is the healthy alternative to suppression. Of course, that is for the type of hate that usually results in being directly harmed by another. The cure for the prejudice and bigotry type of hate is usually education and understanding which has to be chosen and internalized. Unfortunately, the hater usually believes he already knows the truth and cannot see beyond his narrow spectrum of understanding which is why all members of the hated group are lumped together and stereotyped.

Not all. I always use "most", "almost all", "many" when I talk about Twitch streamers. There are exceptions everywhere. Above, I agreed that there are people making interesting content

2 hours ago, Roland said:

You're just wrong. You were never going to get it Friday. They tried Fun Pimp Fridays early on like in Alpha 7 and figured out that they hated Friday releases and so they stopped-- long before the Streamer weekend started. Friday was never going to be an option for you unless....you got 5k followers on Twitch. You might feel effected but it is all in your mind.

Why do they hate Friday releases?

2 hours ago, Roland said:

I think we ALL have caught you in what you are...

What?

[Roland]

17 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

Why do they hate Friday releases?

 

They are against stressful working weekends. If something goes wrong and a hotfix patch is needed and that hotfix patch requires the work of multiple programmers it makes for a stressful weekend especially since TFP is officially closed Saturdays and Sundays. Now they are pressuring their programmers to come in on a weekend and work. If the problem occurs Tuesday it is fine because everyone is at work already anyway.

 

The chance that something significant is going to go wrong is much greater for a release to 30,000-50,000 players with all their various configurations and rigs. It is much less for a release to 200-- especially when those 200 are likely to have higher end machines anyway. Then they can sit back and watch people play and react to the things they were hoping they would react to and take notes on things people do that are unexpected and chat with gamers and fans in the various streams.

 

Nothing about the last five streamer events has made them rethink doing this. The positives have far outweighed the negatives. Those who hate the event speculate about the seriousness of the possible negative aspects. However, actual history shows that the negatives are insignificant or nonexistent compared to the positives. If the net outcome was not overwhelmingly positive, TFP wouldn't continue to do it.

[Maharin]

This thread needs:

 

[Boidster]

18 hours ago, bachgaman said:

What is the name of when a person likes to observe, and not to do it himself? There is a word for such people

 

Jerry Falwell?

[Roland]

2 hours ago, SylenThunder said:

I stand corrected.

 

Was that to the right, or to the left?  Maybe take a step back? Up high? down low?

just do the hokey pokey now and shake it all about. 
 

that’s what it’s all about.

[warmer]

Why do they advertise movies before they come out?

If you have a product to sell would you, pass up great free advertising that ensures the exposure of many new people to your labor of love, or would you only send an email to existing customers?

From an business perspective not doing so is rather masochistic.

[Skullfracture]

Boo-@%$#ety-hoo.

[Slaasher]

On 11/7/2021 at 6:55 PM, Rizno said:

 

What's annoying is that Streamers get the game before the players do. I wish they would do away with that nonsense. Especially since we have to wait so long for patches in the first place - it's been well over a year now since A19 released.

 

A universal release for everyone would make much more sense. I'm sure the majority of the player base don't even care about Twitch.

 

Welcome to modern day gaming marketing. This is a large part of how it's done now. Like it or lump it

[Sal]

Lol this is funny to me. TFP Should've never announced anything....I guess.

 

There are ALOT of things to be upset about in this world, but if you have a real problem with streamers getting access to a game a mere 3 days earlier than you, then why not just become one? Look, I've been playing this game since 13 and I don't necessarily like favoritism either but I'm not gonna lose my @%$# over not having access for a few days either. I mean...how long did we have to play 16 before 17 was released and we all still played it right?

 

Also, take this into consideration. Would this be as big of an issue as it has if TFP decided to NOT announce they were releasing it streamers before hand, and just sprung it on them at the last minute on a Friday morning, but also said the game would be publicly released on Monday?

[Lenny Lettuce Lips]

10 hours ago, Roland said:

No good reason. Even when you feel hate against someone who has personally harmed you it is better for you to let it go. Hate of any kind is unhealthy. Hatred of a group of people you don't personally know and consistently stereotype and disparage is not really something you should be flaunting. You are absolutely not affected by them

Replied earlier, so apologies if doubled. Likely stomped for "coarse language" 

 

Points bro, very based. We need a "respect" emoji.  

[bachgaman]

5 hours ago, warmer said:

Why do they advertise movies before they come out?

If you have a product to sell would you, pass up great free advertising that ensures the exposure of many new people to your labor of love, or would you only send an email to existing customers?

From an business perspective not doing so is rather masochistic.

 Ads and teasers do not reveal all of the content. Two days of streams will spoil everything new in the game

12 hours ago, bachgaman said:

I agree, there are people who do something unique and it can be interesting to watch them, but this is not a competitive game. Don't you think it is much more interesting to learn new content on your own, even if not on extreme difficulty with only knife, but to do it yourself? What's the point of watching the stream for two days, learning all the new features during this time, and only then go to play yourself? Some have compared this streamer weekend to movie teasers, but movie teasers do not show the entire plot and all the unexpected twists and turns. If they did, then such a film would not be interesting to watch. And here is the same thing.

 

8 hours ago, Roland said:

 

They are against stressful working weekends. If something goes wrong and a hotfix patch is needed and that hotfix patch requires the work of multiple programmers it makes for a stressful weekend especially since TFP is officially closed Saturdays and Sundays. Now they are pressuring their programmers to come in on a weekend and work. If the problem occurs Tuesday it is fine because everyone is at work already anyway.

 

The chance that something significant is going to go wrong is much greater for a release to 30,000-50,000 players with all their various configurations and rigs. It is much less for a release to 200-- especially when those 200 are likely to have higher end machines anyway. Then they can sit back and watch people play and react to the things they were hoping they would react to and take notes on things people do that are unexpected and chat with gamers and fans in the various streams.

 

Nothing about the last five streamer events has made them rethink doing this. The positives have far outweighed the negatives. Those who hate the event speculate about the seriousness of the possible negative aspects. However, actual history shows that the negatives are insignificant or nonexistent compared to the positives. If the net outcome was not overwhelmingly positive, TFP wouldn't continue to do it.

This is understandable, although it is strange that once every 1-2 years they cannot work on weekends.

Edited November 10, 2021 by bachgaman (see edit history)

[SylenThunder]

24 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

 Ads and teasers do not reveal all of the content. Two days of streams will spoil everything new in the game

It only spoils it if you choose to watch the streams. If you choose not to, then nothing is spoiled.  It's really super easy.

 

25 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

This is understandable, although it is strange that once every 1-2 years they cannot work on weekends.

It's more strange that you would think they would want to work on weekends. It's not that they cannot, but that they want to have a break.

You've been pushing really hard for the past 3-4 months to meet a deadline you set for yourself. You then miss the deadline because there are issues with your product. You're working extra hard to get the problems fixed so you can get the product out there. Wouldn't you want to take a break and sit back and look at it through another persons eyes for a couple of days?

 

We aren't even talking about how the developers are already spending their free time showing off some of the content and talking about their processes during development. Time that they could be spending relaxing, or having valuable personal time with loved ones. They're doing it because they're excited to show you what they're working on, even though you can't play it yet. It's not like closed testing to a select audience of a few hundred people outside of the large internal testing groups is unheard of.  Companies have been doing closed beta releases for years before TFP even existed. Don't act like this is new or unusual.

[bachgaman]

20 minutes ago, SylenThunder said:

t only spoils it if you choose to watch the streams. If you choose not to, then nothing is spoiled.  It's really super easy.

As well as not watching the spoilering teaser for the movie you're waiting for. I am sure that I will not watch these streams, but everyone around will discuss it, videos will appear on YouTube, and so on. I'll get spoilers anyway.

20 minutes ago, SylenThunder said:

It's more strange that you would think they would want to work on weekends. It's not that they cannot, but that they want to have a break.

You've been pushing really hard for the past 3-4 months to meet a deadline you set for yourself. You then miss the deadline because there are issues with your product. You're working extra hard to get the problems fixed so you can get the product out there. Wouldn't you want to take a break and sit back and look at it through another persons eyes for a couple of days?

 

We aren't even talking about how the developers are already spending their free time showing off some of the content and talking about their processes during development. Time that they could be spending relaxing, or having valuable personal time with loved ones. They're doing it because they're excited to show you what they're working on, even though you can't play it yet. It's not like closed testing to a select audience of a few hundred people outside of the large internal testing groups is unheard of.  Companies have been doing closed beta releases for years before TFP even existed. Don't act like this is new or unusual.

I do not insist or demand that they work. It's just strange for me. On such special days, I personally would make exceptions without question. I definitely wouldn't want to take a break until the full release. In my work, I come across a similar "apotheosis" when what you have been working on for months is put into work. And these days we work at the facility 24 hours a day 7 days a week. This is normal for me, but I do not impose my point of view on anyone.

Edited November 10, 2021 by bachgaman (see edit history)

[Gazz]

On 11/9/2021 at 7:03 AM, bachgaman said:

What is the name of when a person likes to observe, and not to do it himself? There is a word for such people

 

On Twitch it's "Just Chatting".
 

5 hours ago, Sal said:

 if you have a real problem with streamers getting access to a game a mere 3 days earlier than you, then why not just become one?

 

Become a streamer and influencer, get all your channel art for free (because you pay in exposures), get stuff and games for free! Live the life!
Well... maybe not initially but I believe in you!
 

Edited November 10, 2021 by Gazz (see edit history)

[Skuriles]

I do and will never understand the popularity of streaming. Watching others playing a game while actually you can do it on your own?
The only reason I would understand: You are interested in the game and you don't know if you can buy it. But hey.. there are some simple ways to get some information about the game: Check Youtube reviews, game reviews (Steam, metacritic etc.).... or maybe there would be some kind of a "demo" or "shareware" you can have a short trial of the game? 

This type of "trying the game" has been completely abandoned due to the possibility to refund a game within 2 hrs on some platforms. And that (beyond my understanding) there is lot more to gain from marketing view when you use streamers to promote your game instead of trying it on your own. 
Maybe it is a generation thing and I don't bother if the game drops 2 days earlier to streamers or not. 
I mean we have waited 6 months up to 1,5 years for each of the latest alphas. I hoped with the announced changes around A16 the development speed would raise, but if it takes that long: who cares. I bought the game for 10 €, have spent 300 hrs or more... 

I just play one of my 100s of my epic and steam games meanwhile. Calm down boys and girls. Go outside and take a deep breath and enjoy your life 🙂