Its Annoying That Streamers Get the Game First!

[Rizno]

6 hours ago, Swiftpaw said:

We all want A20 to come out, but we all want The Fun Pimps to have lives, fun, and relaxation too.  No working on weekends.  It'll be done when it's done!  Still hoping for a pre-Thanksgiving release, but we shall see.

 

What's annoying is that Streamers get the game before the players do. I wish they would do away with that nonsense. Especially since we have to wait so long for patches in the first place - it's been well over a year now since A19 released.

 

A universal release for everyone would make much more sense. I'm sure the majority of the player base don't even care about Twitch.

[BFT2020]

5 hours ago, Rizno said:

 

What's annoying is that Streamers get the game before the players do. I wish they would do away with that nonsense. Especially since we have to wait so long for patches in the first place - it's been well over a year now since A19 released.

 

A universal release for everyone would make much more sense. I'm sure the majority of the player base don't even care about Twitch.

I am fine with them releasing it first to streamers and then everyone else a week later.  In the scheme of life, what is one additional week to wait?  It’s not the end of the world just to wait one more week…..

[SpaceBound]

18 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

I am fine with them releasing it first to streamers and then everyone else a week later.  In the scheme of life, what is one additional week to wait?  It’s not the end of the world just to wait one more week…..

It already is the end of the world mate and to wait another week tough i know that some dude (who plays this game just to get views) got his hands on the game before people who actually live on this game makes me personally mad af.

[bdubyah]

24 minutes ago, SpaceBound said:

It already is the end of the world mate and to wait another week tough i know that some dude (who plays this game just to get views) got his hands on the game before people who actually live on this game makes me personally mad af.

Well, obviously the streamer enjoys the game too. If he is truly just after views, and chose 7 Days, then he is an idiot. Lol. No offense towards 7 Days or TFP, but if he was after views he'd be playing whatever was popular at the time. I do feel like they should do a light screening of applicants and only allow ones that have a history with the game, but's that just my opinon. And I suppose it's also good to show first time players reactions and stuff as well.

 

It's a good mass-bug-finding event and free advertising for their game. I don't know why people get so bent out of shape over it.

[SpaceBound]

Just now, bdubyah said:

Well, obviously the streamer enjoys the game too. If he is truly just after views, and chose 7 Days, then he is an idiot. Lol. No offense towards 7 Days or TFP, but if he was after views he'd be playing whatever was popular at the time. I do feel like they should do a light screening of applicants and only allow ones that have a history with the game, but's that just my opinon. And I suppose it's also good to show first time players reactions and stuff as well.

 

It's a good mass-bug-finding event and free advertising for their game. I don't know why people get so bent out of shape over it.

Game will be promoted by any means. There is no reason for the game to be released only for 0,01% of community. There is no in game purchases, there is nothing about this game that could benefit the game and community to be released only to streamers first. Give me just 1 advantage of it and i will agree with you mate. Also bugs are present and will be present, no doubt about it. Thus some bugs happen only at some times, thus its better for the game to be released to everyone than to 0,01% of the community. Everyone paid for this game, me, you, streamers. 5 years ago roughly half of my school started playing this game because i spread the word about it, atleast 60 of schoolmates i know are still playing to this day. 8 of my mates are playing with me together. I hope you understand my point of view.

[bdubyah]

I honestly don't. They've said multiple times they won't do a public release going into a weekend, which is why it's "streamer weekend" then the public release the following Mon/Tues if no nasty bugs turn up. So we wouldn't get it till then anyway. So all you could hope to accomplish is to stop streamers from getting it for the weekend and waiting till Mon/Tues like everyone else. Which is just silly and childish. I also never said all bugs will show up during their weekend or anything of the sort. But having all these people playing it is basically like a closed alpha test, that people can stream. Not ready for public consumption, but definitely more people than the normal QA team putting in hours that can help discover new bugs or help repro known ones.

 

Streamer weekends attract several streamers that don't necessarily play 7 Days all the time. So it gets the game broadcasted to an audience that might not follow or even know of the game. That's free advertisement for TFP. Hate it or not, it's a smart move on their part.

[SpaceBound]

14 minutes ago, bdubyah said:

I honestly don't. They've said multiple times they won't do a public release going into a weekend, which is why it's "streamer weekend" then the public release the following Mon/Tues if no nasty bugs turn up. So we wouldn't get it till then anyway. So all you could hope to accomplish is to stop streamers from getting it for the weekend and waiting till Mon/Tues like everyone else. Which is just silly and childish. I also never said all bugs will show up during their weekend or anything of the sort. But having all these people playing it is basically like a closed alpha test, that people can stream. Not ready for public consumption, but definitely more people than the normal QA team putting in hours that can help discover new bugs or help repro known ones.

 

Streamer weekends attract several streamers that don't necessarily play 7 Days all the time. So it gets the game broadcasted to an audience that might not follow or even know of the game. That's free advertisement for TFP. Hate it or not, it's a smart move on their part.

Please read why this conversation started mate. Its not about accomplishing anything here, also not about stopping streamers to get hands on the game before me or anyone else. Its about point of releasing the game earlier to minority of people while other 99,99% people who actually funded the game have to wait and watch the minority enjoy the content they have been probably waiting for a longer than this minority of 0,01%. 

 

Streamers are Public, even tough they would only test it for bugs, it would be Public consumption on a much smaller scale which is anyway contradictive from what you are saying here mate. Thats why TFP has their QA team!

 

Like i said, if TFP decides to release the game for everyone at the same time, game will still be broadcasted and everyone will be happy including 99,99% of players who paid mostly for this game.

 

If TFP decides to release the game only for Streamers, game will be broadcasted and only streamers will be happy, which is 0,01% of this community. 99,99% of players will slowly die in vain while watching streamers enjoy the game.

[stallionsden]

1 hour ago, SpaceBound said:

Please read why this conversation started mate. Its not about accomplishing anything here, also not about stopping streamers to get hands on the game before me or anyone else. Its about point of releasing the game earlier to minority of people while other 99,99% people who actually funded the game have to wait and watch the minority enjoy the content they have been probably waiting for a longer than this minority of 0,01%. 

 

Streamers are Public, even tough they would only test it for bugs, it would be Public consumption on a much smaller scale which is anyway contradictive from what you are saying here mate. Thats why TFP has their QA team!

 

Like i said, if TFP decides to release the game for everyone at the same time, game will still be broadcasted and everyone will be happy including 99,99% of players who paid mostly for this game.

 

If TFP decides to release the game only for Streamers, game will be broadcasted and only streamers will be happy, which is 0,01% of this community. 99,99% of players will slowly die in vain while watching streamers enjoy the game.

Well tfp have been doing something correct obviously the streamer weekends have bought in lots more players to the game. These players that as bdubyah stated never played or heard of the game before.

 

Streamer weekends isn't new it has been around for a couple alphas now. 

 

Now I can only believe you can not speak for all players who have funded this game either. You can speak for yourself.  

[meganoth]

1) This is a pure advertisement event. This is not about giving streamers a present or thank them.

2) Many non-die-hard 7D2D streamers will be streaming 7D2D exactly because they get it earlier and expect more curious viewers from this exclusivity. Exclusivity is a cheap method to get those streamers (and particularily their viewers)

 

These are the reasons. Unless someone finds a serious counter argument to that he might as well shout at windmills. It is like complaining that your older brother can stay up longer than you when you were 7 years old.

 

Edited November 8, 2021 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Gamida]

I didn't think streamers weekend was to help find bugs before public release, I thought it was purely for advertisement to new potential players. Are they classed as testers when they stream the game? Do streamers even have to report bugs?

I just know that there is most likely a chance that when they get it that the rest of us will get it in a few days time after.

[Weazelsun]

39 minutes ago, Gamida said:

I didn't think streamers weekend was to help find bugs before public release, I thought it was purely for advertisement to new potential players. Are they classed as testers when they stream the game? Do streamers even have to report bugs?

I just know that there is most likely a chance that when they get it that the rest of us will get it in a few days time after.

 

Yeah, primary is advertisement.

On your last question, I have to assume as a byproduct of streamers playing and streaming the game. Bugs are more "easy" to spot since usually if a bug or oddity in general occurs. The viewers notice it.

[saltychipmunk]

Well when you think about it, all bug reporting is in the end.. is describing a bug and the steps you took to cause it.   both can be accomplished by a video recording. streamers by definition are  recording everything.  very nice for bug tracking.  although it would omit any error dumps if the streamers don't follow up with it.

[andydahl]

4 hours ago, meganoth said:

1) This is a pure advertisement event. This is not about giving streamers a present or thank them.

2) Many non-die-hard 7D2D streamers will be streaming 7D2D exactly because they get it earlier and expect more curious viewers from this exclusivity. Exclusivity is a cheap method to get those streamers (and particularily their viewers)

 

These are the reasons. Unless someone finds a serious counter argument to that he might as well shout at windmills. It is like complaining that your older brother can stay up longer than you when you were 7 years old.

 

Here's your "serious counter argument":

TFP are artificially delaying release to the people who have actually plunked down money to buy the game in "early access". Since there are no in-game purchases or upgrades available, why would they disrespect their customers by not releasing to everyone at the same time? We paid for "early access" and, unfortunately we're getting "delayed access" once some ass-hat streamers -- who some/most don't even know how to play the game -- get to demo it for mainly people who bought the game years ago and would like nothing more than to play it themselves. In my mind, it's a mockery of early access and a total disrespect to their paying customers.

 

As if that isn't enough, I find the fatal flaw actually in the so-called marketing. If they are actually trying to attract customers, what better way than to offer "buy today, play today" while watching a streamer?

 

But even more egregious is TFP logic of releasing to streamers on a Friday to showcase all their bugs in the wild. That seems pretty risky, to give it to streamers to show it off, warts and all, with no one actively working over the weekend to fix them as they come up. What happens if a showstopper is uncovered on a live-stream that breaks the game and ruins the stream?

 

But you say, "That won't happen as all of the MF bugs have been fixed and QA is under control." Then why the hell aren't you releasing to the people who have already paid? 

 

Bottom line, the "serious counter argument" is that TFP are disrespecting their paying customers in a misguided attempt to attract new ones. It's especially ironic that in selling a game with "early access", they are actually delaying access to the ones who have been supporting them for so long.

 

I'd love to hear a serious rebuttal of these uncontroversial points.

Edited November 8, 2021 by andydahl
corrected typo (see edit history)

[jorbascrumps]

35 minutes ago, andydahl said:

snip

 

Counter-counterargument: the "early access" we paid for was to play the game before its official gold release. Whatever updates happen between when you bought the game and gold are at the discretion of the developer to determine how they are released. You'll still get them eventually. So what if a streamer gets it 3 days early? That's a drop in the bucket compared to the year you'll be playing A20 before A21 drops.

[Dodge]

If anyone is unironically crying/@%$#in because they have to wait 2-3 more days to play they seriously need to go outside and touch some grass.

[retrogamingdev]

1 hour ago, andydahl said:

 

Bottom line, the "serious counter argument" is that TFP are disrespecting their paying customers in a misguided attempt to attract new ones. It's especially ironic that in selling a game with "early access", they are actually delaying access to the ones who have been supporting them for so long.

 

I'd love to hear a serious rebuttal of these uncontroversial points.

Do you realize that this game has continued to receive the support and development it has over the years because people continue buying it? Part of why people are buying it is the exposure it receives from streamers. Without that continued enthusiasm for the game, they would have likely wrapped up years ago, half-assing all the 'goals' to a state that they could call it official - but move onto another game that would make them money. By offering this to the streamers early, it gives the streamers unique content to share which gives them views - so it is a complementary relationship. Not every person out there streaming 7DTD is going to have access to A20 early, so those who do benefit from the content.

As much as this is a passion project for parties involved, it is also a business and if they aren't making money - it won't keep going. 

Calm yourself, you will get it shortly after the streamers.

(NOTE: I am just as excited for this and I am very anxiously awaiting when I can install it. But, the level of illogical entitlement from some people is getting absurd.)

Edited November 8, 2021 by retrogamingdev (see edit history)

[Gazz]

51 minutes ago, Dodge said:

If anyone is unironically crying/@%$#in because they have to wait 2-3 more days to play they seriously need to go outside and touch some grass.

 

Careful with your medical advice there. You don't know where that grass has been! =P

[BFT2020]

1 hour ago, andydahl said:

Here's your "serious counter argument":

TFP are artificially delaying release to the people who have actually plunked down money to buy the game in "early access". Since there are no in-game purchases or upgrades available, why would they disrespect their customers by not releasing to everyone at the same time? We paid for "early access" and, unfortunately we're getting "delayed access" once some ass-hat streamers -- who some/most don't even know how to play the game -- get to demo it for mainly people who bought the game years ago and would like nothing more than to play it themselves. In my mind, it's a mockery of early access and a total disrespect to their paying customers.

 

You and I got early access.  I been playing since Alpha 16, not sure when you purchased the game.  However, when you and I purchased the game, it was at that stage of the game.  There were no guarantees as to what the final product was going to be or when it was going to be released.  It was the same with development patches throughout the Early Access phase of this game.

 

I don't know about all of the streamers, but your a-h streamers comment was way out of line.  I can name several that seriously play the game - Capp00, Glock, Max Fox, KhaineGB, Kage848, GameEdged, and Skippy0330 are the ones I follow and they are passionate about the game.  A lot of people on that list that Roland posted have been playing this game for awhile.  But I don't think you made your argument based on facts or even research on your part, it was just a way to take a cheapshot on those that are streamers who will be getting the game 2 - 3 days ahead of everyone else.  Does it matter that someone plays the game differently than you?  I see the developers play the game differently than I do, but I never think that they "don't know how to play the game."  I just chuck it up as people playing the game differently than I do which is their prerogative.

 

You and I will get the game 2-3 days after the streamers weekend, it is not a total disrespect of paying customers.  Again, you already paid for the game when it was at Stage X.  Anything else after that is a bonus (which you are not paying for anything after your initial payment for the game).

Quote

 

As if that isn't enough, I find the fatal flaw actually in the so-called marketing. If they are actually trying to attract customers, what better way than to offer "buy today, play today" while watching a streamer?

 

 

Nothing prevents them from buying the game today and playing it today.  Even if they buy it while the streamers are streaming the game, they get Alpha 19 with Alpha 20 just around the corner.  I don't see any fatal flaw there.

 

Quote

But even more egregious is TFP logic of releasing to streamers on a Friday to showcase all their bugs in the wild. That seems pretty risky, to give it to streamers to show it off, warts and all, with no one actively working over the weekend to fix them as they come up. What happens if a showstopper is uncovered on a live-stream that breaks the game and ruins the stream?

 

By the time we get the game, there are typically not any bugs that will break the game.  And typically, the streamer would mention that bug as an early access issue  - which when they buy it, there are notices on the store page about that very issue.

 

Besides which, I can think of recent final release games that came out with serious bugs.......

 

Quote

 

But you say, "That won't happen as all of the MF bugs have been fixed and QA is under control." Then why the hell aren't you releasing to the people who have already paid? 

 

Bottom line, the "serious counter argument" is that TFP are disrespecting their paying customers in a misguided attempt to attract new ones. It's especially ironic that in selling a game with "early access", they are actually delaying access to the ones who have been supporting them for so long.

 

I'd love to hear a serious rebuttal of these uncontroversial points.

 

 

Again, it is a marketing decision that TFP have made for their game.  They are not disrespecting their paying customers as none of us are technically paying customers.  We paid for the product that they already delievered to us when we made that purchase, now TFP are adding more elements and improving what we already paid for.

Edited November 8, 2021 by BFT2020 (see edit history)

[Guppycur]

It's akin to sending a copy early to PC gamer to review before it's released. 

[retrogamingdev]

26 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

It's akin to sending a copy early to PC gamer to review before it's released. 

 

It is exactly that. (Except way more effective than sending to washed up review sites like that  )

[unholyjoe]

2 hours ago, Dodge said:

If anyone is unironically crying/@%$#in because they have to wait 2-3 more days to play they seriously need to go outside and touch some grass.

i venture to say that touching the grass may be the reason for them complaining... ooops wrong grass maybe

 

btw peeps... the cycle will repeat when we get close to a21 dropping.

Edited November 8, 2021 by unholyjoe (see edit history)

[Roland]

13 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

I am fine with them releasing it first to streamers and then everyone else a week later.

 

uh..2.5 days later.

 

12 hours ago, SpaceBound said:

and to wait another week

 

weekend. (Thats 2.5 days)

 

12 hours ago, SpaceBound said:

some dude (who plays this game just to get views) got his hands on the game before people who actually live on this game makes me personally mad af

 

Prejudice against streamers is your real problem. You have falsely set up the scenario that they don't love the game as much as you do and only play it to get views. Maybe they love the game as much as you do AND play it for views as well. You have no basis for the foundation upon which all your anger and seething jealousy and hatred sits. It is all just a constructed assumption. You don't know these people individually but you assume knowledge of their whole "species" and hate them. Classic prejudice.

 

Clear that gunk out of your heart and your arguments will hold more credence.

 

11 hours ago, SpaceBound said:

If TFP decides to release the game only for Streamers, game will be broadcasted and only streamers will be happy, which is 0,01% of this community. 99,99% of players will slowly die in vain while watching streamers enjoy the game.

 

This is the sixth time we have done this event and your same prediction has been made five times previously by streamer haters of the past and five times proven false. Every time we have done this there have been thousands of happy viewers and lots of fun happening in nations all over the world by those who enjoy the whole streamer scene. It is not just the streamers themselves enjoying the game. Their audiences enjoy it as well. The developers enjoy it immensely. They watch and they comment in their dev chat and often what they see sparks conversations that bear fruit for everyone during experimental.

 

Sorry, but five times this event has had proven positive results-- so much so that the owners insist on it continuing on. It is a fantastic soft launch of the game that has consistently netted real beneficial results for the release candidate prepped for the Monday launch for everyone. It is also a ton of fun for those who choose to participate as viewers. I get that you don't count yourself as a viewer and I understand completely. I don't watch professional sports, myself. But it is your choice to abstain.

 

But you should know that the number of people who enjoy watching streams has been growing and not shrinking. And now, thanks to TFP, you don't even have to just watch and chat. You can participate and several of the streamers in our list plan to use Twitch Integration for the weekend event. So fun!

 

Look, you erroneously thought it was a whole week and it isn't. It's just 2.5 days.

You erroneously think that streamers aren't true gamers who don't really love gaming.

You erroneously think that streaming is some small fringe fraction of the playerbase.

You erroneously think that early access which we all paid for is somehow being suspending during that weekend.

 

If you will allow yourself to give up these notions you  will feel much better.

[BFT2020]

33 minutes ago, Roland said:

uh..2.5 days later.

Even better.  See, I was fine with 7 days and you promised us 2.5 days later  😉

 

In my latest post, I did get the wait period correct; though I still think it doesn't matter if it is just a few days later or 7 days later.  The amount of time to wait is minuscule compared to life as a whole. 

[meganoth]

4 hours ago, andydahl said:

Here's your "serious counter argument":

TFP are artificially delaying release to the people who have actually plunked down money to buy the game in "early access". Since there are no in-game purchases or upgrades available, why would they disrespect their customers by not releasing to everyone at the same time? We paid for "early access" and, unfortunately we're getting "delayed access" once some ass-hat streamers -- who some/most don't even know how to play the game -- get to demo it for mainly people who bought the game years ago and would like nothing more than to play it themselves. In my mind, it's a mockery of early access and a total disrespect to their paying customers.

 

This is fine as an emotional speech about respect and wants of players who got to play a game years ahead of its release for a pitiful $20. Which is to say I disagree, but emotions can't be argued about. For starters you first would have to show actually that it is disrespect and that you have a right to a new version of the game immediately when someone else gets it. Which a few people posting before me have shown to be wrong.

 

So sadly your argument is still a bit light on actual arguments up to this point. But luckily you are better than that:

 

4 hours ago, andydahl said:

As if that isn't enough, I find the fatal flaw actually in the so-called marketing. If they are actually trying to attract customers, what better way than to offer "buy today, play today" while watching a streamer?

 

Actually an argument and one I didn't think about. They might have seen features that are not in the game when they buy and play it.

 

BUT on the other hand I would think that streamers boast enough of their **exclusive** access to a version everyone else only gets after the weekend. So confusion should be rather minimal, and disappointment about having to wait ~2 days is on the same order as buying something online or buying a new MMORPG and then waiting for a free spot on their server. But unlike those cases a players gets to play A19 in that time which should be almost the same for a novice player that has his hands full with finding enough food and staying alive when entering his first POI.

 

Looks to me an insignificant downside against the proven worth of this marketing stunt

 

4 hours ago, andydahl said:

 

But even more egregious is TFP logic of releasing to streamers on a Friday to showcase all their bugs in the wild. That seems pretty risky, to give it to streamers to show it off, warts and all, with no one actively working over the weekend to fix them as they come up. What happens if a showstopper is uncovered on a live-stream that breaks the game and ruins the stream?

 

But you say, "That won't happen as all of the MF bugs have been fixed and QA is under control." Then why the hell aren't you releasing to the people who have already paid? 

 

Since I never argued about bug fixing being a serious reason I also would not argue for releasing even if I were sure all MF bugs were fixed. This is a marketing stunt which showed its value already a few times and some MF bug being shown in some streams for a game in EA (!!!)  is a risk I would take without hesitation.

So a streamer shows a showstopper bug and nets no new customers? That means all the other streamers still get new customers for the game.

 

 

4 hours ago, andydahl said:

 

Bottom line, the "serious counter argument" is that TFP are disrespecting their paying customers in a misguided attempt to attract new ones. It's especially ironic that in selling a game with "early access", they are actually delaying access to the ones who have been supporting them for so long.

 

I'd love to hear a serious rebuttal of these uncontroversial points.

 

 

[Aldranon]

 

You guys worry about when a computer game will be released.  Bah!

 

Muons wobble faster than they should!

The day reality as science knew it, fell on its face!  Remember you were alive when something stupendous was found.