A20 Developer Diary Discussions

[meilodasreh]

20 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

How so?  You can make pipe weapons a lot sooner than the other weapons that use the same ammo.  I don't rush to find a weapon at the traders on Day 1 and looting at that early of a game stage, I am going to be very lucky to find a Q1 pistol in the toliets.  With a pipe weapon, I can use that 9mm or 7.62mm ammo I find early on if I find myself in a bit of a jam.

I hope those pipe weapons aren't that easy to craft or too early to find (at least the shotgun version).

One can now easily kill a mountain lion or even a zombie bear early game, because you find enough blunderbusses really fast, and you just have to carry 3-5 of them loaded in your belt to get some kind of overpowered autoshotty. That would work with the pipe weapons too and gives you an advantage you shouldn't have that early game.

 

Or am I just playing a too low difficulty level? 🤔

 

btw, anybody else having issues with postings saving like literally minutes before being submitted/completed?

 

[Zombiepoptard]

Is the fun pimps looking into hiring the Modder Subquake? He has down a amazing job on the UI with is mod Undead Legacy. I would really like the improvements in his mod to come over to the original game. If not hire buy the assets that he's created for the UI changes. 

[KhaineGB]

I'd rather they leave the UI alone and just make it more moddable so he can do his changes easier

[Roland]

3 hours ago, Matt115 said:

they worst idea ever xd it will make pipe weapons pointless

Only if you play with the creative menu on...

[Zombiepoptard]

30 minutes ago, KhaineGB said:

I'd rather they leave the UI alone and just make it more moddable so he can do his changes easier

 

[Matt115]

12 minutes ago, Roland said:

Only if you play with the creative menu on...

nope, just focus on sledgehammer and crossbow for 6 day and in blood moon use guns

[KhaineGB]

Because the amount of info he crams into the UI is not required for base game 7DTD and would probably annoy a lot of other modders.

Like me.

[Roland]

14 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

nope, just focus on sledgehammer and crossbow for 6 day and in blood moon use guns

 

For those who prefer melee, a sledgehammer makes all ranged weapons "pointless". As for crossbow....um...are you sure you don't have the creative menu enabled if you are playing with a crossbow during the first couple weeks?

 

I play mostly melee and wood bow in the beginning with guns and ammo being saved for bloodmoons. Unless you are trying hard to play the system and speedrun you will most likely be using the the pipe level weaponry during your first and maybe second bloodmoons. But there will also be emergency moments where you will be tempted to switch to guns (if you have them on your belt) and use up ammo outside of bloodmoons.

 

What I've found in A19 is that by bloodmoon #3 I have stacks and stacks of ammo saved up because I was able to stockpile while using primitive ammo and blunderbusses. In A20, I find that my ammo is much more depleted because I am using it in the pipe weapons on bloodmoons #1 and #2. Now, maybe you won't do that and you'll just save your ammo for the good guns and never use pipe weapons and only use a sledgehammer and cheat in a crossbow-- but that is just a choice and doesn't make pipe weapons pointless for everyone.

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

 

For those who prefer melee, a sledgehammer makes all ranged weapons "pointless". As for crossbow....um...are you sure you don't have the creative menu enabled if you are playing with a crossbow during the first couple weeks?

 

I play mostly melee and wood bow in the beginning with guns and ammo being saved for bloodmoons. Unless you are trying hard to play the system and speedrun you will most likely be using the the pipe level weaponry during your first and maybe second bloodmoons. But there will also be emergency moments where you will be tempted to switch to guns (if you have them on your belt) and use up ammo outside of bloodmoons.

 

What I've found in A19 is that by bloodmoon #3 I have stacks and stacks of ammo saved up because I was able to stockpile while using primitive ammo and blunderbusses. In A20, I find that my ammo is much more depleted because I am using it in the pipe weapons on bloodmoons #1 and #2. Now, maybe you won't do that and you'll just save your ammo for the good guns and never use pipe weapons and only use a sledgehammer and cheat in a crossbow-- but that is just a choice and doesn't make pipe weapons pointless for everyone.

this is not quiet hard- spamming quest+mining in night if you put setting 120 min day   and put everything in intellect when you friend doing something else. so it let you have sometimes crossbown very fast. so it can be done. ofc it works on a18 . but i'm sure it could be done if you friend is doing dwarfs  things ( mining and cutting tree all 120 min + upgrading base). blunderbass was good option. 

 

ofc if it can be done on a19? idk because my friend have problem with laptop and get aversion to 7dtd because he say it became kinda boring,  now only play in l4d2 , euro truck 2 and coh2 ( well and yakuza 0 but this single game). 

 

 

Edited July 21, 2021 by Matt115 (see edit history)

[giKoN]

On 7/20/2021 at 1:27 AM, bob the big blob of goo said:

Any chance you guys could issue a unique token to each player as they login that would be required to be appended to their data stream back to the server?  That way you can reject any input that isn't essentially signed.  Something that can't be discovered by another player.  Unless, you are doing a full broadcast of all data packets to all clients then it would be moot.  I'm fighting people using impersonation of an admin to execute elevated permission commands.  That isn't the only exploit channel, however, it does seem to be one of the easier ones.  If I'm missing something here, please educate me as I like better answers/solutions than what I can imagine.

Packages have unique tokens. For some you can compare cInfo sender vs. instance.sender (instance being the package). If cInfo Sender != instance.sender, for some packages, its a clear catch. However. it starts getting ridiculous with some packages like NetPackageDamageEntity. Here's some example of me watching zombies run against barbed wire.

 

So my client sends the server the info that those zombies took damage. That makes it nearly impossible to differentiate between valid packages of mismatch between entityIDs and invalid ones (e.g. spoofing ids). 

 

The issue with executing commands is that you can make your client execute them without the server knowing. For as long as the server is not in control but acts mostly as a distributor of info between a bunch of single player games, this wont change, and the network optimization/netcode will remain poor. 

 

 

 

[TWORDY]

I`m glad that blunderbuss is no longer a basic starting weapon for a few reasons.

 

First of all, the one type of ammo dedicated exclusively for one particular gun is going to be removed which I reckon is a huge plus, especially in the early game without having a bigger backpack, etc. Reloading the blunderbuss took ages just only to give one shot, and hopefully an accurate one. On top of my personal issues without having any skill assigned to "running and gunning" the player just slowed down drastically while refilling the weapon. I wish only that default player movement would be something at 1pt in "running and gunning" assigned, feels more natural when it comes to movement and the game seems much more responsive and enjoyable at least for me. For me to make blunderbuss worthwhile I had to carry like 2 of them and constantly shuffle between them. 

 

If someone feels nostalgic about blunderbuss I would leave it behind a book or something. Simply make this peculiar weapon ridiculously powerful at really close range like 1,5 meters. Having blunderbuss as a day 1 weapon is just a huge misunderstanding so far... I`m playing 7DTD for a long time so blunderbuss is no longer a problem for me to cope with, it`s an oddly satisfying weapon in some sense. But for someone new to the game is a small of a bit of surprise.

 

I believe that instead of blunderbuss ammo we all gonna receive more than 9mm and so on. Honestly, I would like to see less ammo in the forest biome, so players would have to opt for more melee combat. Instead, the radiated zone could be rich with all types of munitions. Again, the risk and reward factor is the most fun thing ever. 

[samljer]

1 hour ago, giKoN said:

Packages have unique tokens. For some you can compare cInfo sender vs. instance.sender (instance being the package). If cInfo Sender != instance.sender, for some packages, its a clear catch. However. it starts getting ridiculous with some packages like NetPackageDamageEntity. Here's some example of me watching zombies run against barbed wire.

 

So my client sends the server the info that those zombies took damage. That makes it nearly impossible to differentiate between valid packages of mismatch between entityIDs and invalid ones (e.g. spoofing ids). 

 

The issue with executing commands is that you can make your client execute them without the server knowing. For as long as the server is not in control but acts mostly as a distributor of info between a bunch of single player games, this wont change, and the network optimization/netcode will remain poor. 

 

 

 

First thing i learned was the server should do EVERYTHING, no matter what it is, how big, or how small.

The clients should only ever be a window to whats happening on the server.

with the exception of, if i remember my classes right... player movements, which should be validated on the server; and rejected if not possible.

this removes the clients perceived input lag. i dont remember fully.

 

[MechanicalLens]

4 hours ago, Laz Man said:

I see what you did there.  A rib tickler for sure...😅

 

I had a gut feeling someone would make that pun.

[Roland]

7 hours ago, Matt115 said:

this is not quiet hard- spamming quest+mining in night if you put setting 120 min day   and put everything in intellect when you friend doing something else. so it let you have sometimes crossbown very fast. so it can be done. ofc it works on a18 . but i'm sure it could be done if you friend is doing dwarfs  things ( mining and cutting tree all 120 min + upgrading base). blunderbass was good option. 

 

ofc if it can be done on a19? idk because my friend have problem with laptop and get aversion to 7dtd because he say it became kinda boring,  now only play in l4d2 , euro truck 2 and coh2 ( well and yakuza 0 but this single game). 

 

 

 

You are playing A18 and having A19 conversations!? A18 was notorious for getting lots of guns early--even on day 1. That was nerfed in a significant way for A19. You should know that most people on this forum are expressing opinions and sharing feedback about the current version and not making claims about the balance of weaponry based on how the game played a year and a half ago.

[Jost Amman]

19 minutes ago, stupid said:

I hope in A20 they expand upon the weird noises at night. That deep pounding/fluttering sound is terrifying, and it's hard to describe what it is, which makes it even more disturbing.  I'd like to see more random noises at night that are difficult to make sense of. Maybe even some 20-23hz ambience. For some reason this sound frequency gives a really uneasy feeling. Here's a sample 

 

You forgot your generator on...

[Matt115]

5 hours ago, Roland said:

 

You are playing A18 and having A19 conversations!? A18 was notorious for getting lots of guns early--even on day 1. That was nerfed in a significant way for A19. You should know that most people on this forum are expressing opinions and sharing feedback about the current version and not making claims about the balance of weaponry based on how the game played a year and a half ago.

well my point is : ammo should be very limited. guns should be very powerful but useless 90% of time because of lack of ammo

[Darklegend222]

On 7/20/2021 at 5:21 AM, Naz said:

Agreed, it's not impossible to get gpu bound in 7dtd. However many players will run at 1440p and 1080p to get higher refresh rates over resolution and it's those common resolutions that are more likely to be cpu bound. 

 

I've tested the

3090(cpu bound at 4k)

1080ti sli (cpu bound at 4k)

Single 1080ti (cpu bound at 1440p)

1080 (cpu bound at 1440p)

980ti (cpu bound at 1080p)

R9 295x2 (been a while can't recall) 

1060 (been a while can't recall) 

750ti (been a while can't recall)

 

So while some older cards could benifit from dlss, they're to old to support the feature. Modern cards that do would need to be running at 4k to have a chance at any performance benifit and sometimes even then it will still be cpu bound at full Res. I've seen a couple cases of the 3080 reported similary as the 3090 which makes sence since they're not far off each other in terms of performance.

 

I haven't tested lower in the 3000 stack or anything in the 2000 series, so I can't say for certain. But it's my opinion the cases where dlss would benifit people would be in the minority. I think some people would turn it on and play with slightly worst image quality, when it would be unesseseary in cpu scenarios. 

 

 

Probably answered in an earlier page, so indulge someone inferior..

 

May i ask what cpu you tested this on? I'm currently using an i9-10850k processor and am curious if it would be limiting at 1440p? I've got a 6700xt soon to be put in the rig so i assume I'll be cpu bound.. but by how much is my question?

[BFT2020]

4 hours ago, Matt115 said:

well my point is : ammo should be very limited. guns should be very powerful but useless 90% of time because of lack of ammo

There are mods out there that do limit ammo availability.  I am playing one right now were I am at Day 50 and I don't have a ton of ammo saved up (even though I only used arrows for my first 4 horde nights).

 

A simple XML edit will also limit ammo if you are looking to go that route.

[Matt115]

3 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

There are mods out there that do limit ammo availability.  I am playing one right now were I am at Day 50 and I don't have a ton of ammo saved up (even though I only used arrows for my first 4 horde nights).

 

A simple XML edit will also limit ammo if you are looking to go that route.

yeah , well i have very specific vision for 7dtd i think more people prefere other way . you know i will make in simplefication - more people  prefer setting of fallout 4 that stalker 

[Ramethzer0]

14 minutes ago, Matt115 said:

yeah , well i have very specific vision for 7dtd i think more people prefere other way . you know i will make in simplefication - more people  prefer setting of fallout 4 that stalker 

That is a very specific concept within the Survival-Horror genre that vanilla 7 Days to Die flies away from when you consider the Tower Defense aspect of the game.  But, you CAN do a lot of things to trim your game to clip it towards scarcity.     I'd also split hairs with you about scarcity in games like Fallout 4.   I've never felt threatened for gear in F4, like.. ever.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Ramethzer0 (see edit history)

[Matt115]

33 minutes ago, Ramethzer0 said:

That is a very specific concept within the Survival-Horror genre that vanilla 7 Days to Die flies away from when you consider the Tower Defense aspect of the game.  But, you CAN do a lot of things to trim your game to clip it towards scarcity.     I'd also split hairs with you about scarcity in games like Fallout 4.   I've never felt threatened for gear in F4, like.. ever.

well i mean something else :  fallout is post apo but in crazy sometimes funny way. stalker or metro is more nihilist and dark style . whispers in a11 give my vibs that 7dts is going into specific depressing setting but when i saw a new models of guns it's going in mad max style instead and this shame. well tower defense it doesnt' mean it must be colorfull or in mad max style. i still remember when i get to jantar in stalker clear sky and zombies attacked a scientist bunkers rest of defence died and i was sitting somewhere praying for ammo

[Naz]

3 hours ago, Darklegend222 said:

Probably answered in an earlier page, so indulge someone inferior..

 

May i ask what cpu you tested this on? I'm currently using an i9-10850k processor and am curious if it would be limiting at 1440p? I've got a 6700xt soon to be put in the rig so i assume I'll be cpu bound.. but by how much is my question?

I've tested the ryzen 3950x, i7 6700k, i5 4670k and am now testing the ryzen 5950x

The 3090 tests were done on the 3950x, which is a touch slower than your cpu (In 7dtd) I haven't personally tested the i7 10850k or the 6700xt, so I can only estimate. However I think your cpu should be able to keep a 6700xt fed at 1440p, I wouldn't imagine it would run at lower than 80-90% gpu usage. 

 

But that's just my guess based on benchmarks on those components, when you throw it in there let us know how you got on👍

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

well i mean something else :  fallout is post apo but in crazy sometimes funny way. stalker or metro is more nihilist and dark style . whispers in a11 give my vibs that 7dts is going into specific depressing setting but when i saw a new models of guns it's going in mad max style instead and this shame. well tower defense it doesnt' mean it must be colorfull or in mad max style. i still remember when i get to jantar in stalker clear sky and zombies attacked a scientist bunkers rest of defence died and i was sitting somewhere praying for ammo

We got a lot of signals and information from TFP that story, setting, style are already written out by madmole and that that is also already finished. This is definitely not among the few things we players can influence in any way.

 

[samljer]

45 minutes ago, Naz said:

I've tested the ryzen 3950x, i7 6700k, i5 4670k and am now testing the ryzen 5950x

The 3090 tests were done on the 3950x, which is a touch slower than your cpu (In 7dtd) I haven't personally tested the i7 10850k or the 6700xt, so I can only estimate. However I think your cpu should be able to keep a 6700xt fed at 1440p, I wouldn't imagine it would run at lower than 80-90% gpu usage. 

 

But that's just my guess based on benchmarks on those components, when you throw it in there let us know how you got on👍

 

I Have an i7-6700K@Stock (summer and all) and a GTX1080 w 32GB ram.

Monitor is a 1440p Ultrawide with 144hz refresh. specifically this one

LG 34GK950F-B 34" 21:9 Ultragear WQHD Nano IPS Curved Gaming Monitor

 

My frame rates are 90-110 out and about, while shooting, etc.

40-50 horde night (still above the freesync 2 minimum so still buttery smooth)

 

Basically not at all limiting if you turn a few settings to Medium...

specifically shadows. turning that up 1 notch tanks the FPS by half in each category.

[Naz]

12 minutes ago, samljer said:

 

I Have an i7-6700K@Stock (summer and all) and a GTX1080 w 32GB ram.

Monitor is a 1440p Ultrawide with 144hz refresh. specifically this one

LG 34GK950F-B 34" 21:9 Ultragear WQHD Nano IPS Curved Gaming Monitor

 

My frame rates are 90-110 out and about, while shooting, etc.

40-50 horde night (still above the freesync 2 minimum so still buttery smooth)

 

Basically not at all limiting if you turn a few settings to Medium...

specifically shadows. turning that up 1 notch tanks the FPS by half in each category.

Yes settings matter when talking about performance. I usually test 2 sets of settings, everything cranked and one with lower settings in key areas. Reflections will tank performance the most , quality, reflective shadows and screen space reflections can severally impact your performance. shadows is next but not as bad, then options like tree quality is an odd one as it seems to control how close high quality block models start rendering, set it to low and you'll see trash piles popping in everywhere 😛 but it can help to turn it down to medium or high.

But yes the discussion was about being GPU limited not fps limited, the distinction being if you're gpu limited it means there is a bottleneck somewhere in your system and you're not getting the gpus full performance. This doesn't mean it will be a bad experience, it could still give perfectly playable framerates with settings your happy with, if that's the case then you can just enjoy the game and not worry about it. However if you're not satisfied with your systems current performance, step 1 is to find which component is the weakest link and if you already have a powerful gpu it's usually the cpu.