Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[MechanicalLens]

2 hours ago, bdubyah said:

I have to disagree with that. It's part of the game. Anyone who has any time in this game knows that. It lacks depth because that depth has been removed over the years. As stated, it made much more sense when you mined raw iron and other raw resources instead of the same resource you get from scrapping something. I just don't see that being an improvement. The only reason the forge seems to be an outlier is because it was made that way with all the other bits around it being stripped out. There's nothing wrong with it.

 

If a new player cannot figure it out without flashing signs and excessive hand-holding, then that should be on them to put the effort in to learn it. It's not on the game to dumb itself down until the slowest player can do it with ease. Some hover tooltips wouldn't be the worst thing, and I would much rather see that than have the forge basically removed from the game. But constantly changing things because 'iz 2 hrd" isn't good because it just makes people that aren't new to the game confused as well because @%$# keeps changing. This game really just needs to be pushed to gold before it's a completely different game. Take all these ideas and use them for the sequel.

 

What you want and what needs to be done are two totally separate things. We, the 1000+ hour players who want and love depth, are simply not the target audience, and that isn't an outcry, that's just life. That's just business. What's bad for business is a new player attempting to figure out what to do with the forge, getting frustrated, rage quitting the game, and leaving it a bad review. A good mainstream game should have every mechanic be easily accessible and easy to understand at the snap of a finger. It's a major problem, if you follow the subreddit - new players being puzzled with the mechanics of the forge (or "smelter") happens a lot more than you'd might think.

 

Regardless of what we want, the best possible system imho is for the forge, campfire, chem station, and cement mixer to be deleted and for the workbench to be the end-all-be-all, and for it to be simplified as well - no schematic, and only crafted with wood, glue, and short iron pipes. Additional pointers and hover over text would be beneficial as well.

 

Or at the very least, forgetting all that is above, a tutorial map that the game defaults to when creating a world.

[bdubyah]

5 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

 

Regardless of what we want, the best possible system imho is for the forge, campfire, chem station, and cement mixer to be deleted and for the workbench to be the end-all-be-all, and for it to be simplified as well - no schematic, and only crafted with wood, glue, and short iron pipes. Additional pointers and hover over text would be beneficial as well.

Annnd that's the dumbest thing I've read today. I want to laugh, but I'm too afraid you're serious. If the forge has been in the game as long as it has and people somehow can't figure it out, then let them not use the forge. Let them look up a video or ask in the forums. "Every mechanic be easily accessible and easy to understand at the snap of a finger" is absurd. When you pick up a new RPG game or strategy game or tower defense game, do you automatically know everything about it? Does the game tell you the best path to win? No, it doesn't. It gives you some hints and hopefully leaves you to figure it out. That's how it should work. If you want to play a game that is on rails and holds your hand beginning to end, go play COD or something. This game, while very successful, isn't a "mainstream" game and never will be. And I don't mean that in a negative way towards TFP or anything.

 

As I said before, this game just needs to go gold. Otherwise it will just continue to keep changing because things seem old and outdated. Which, they kind of are because this game is, what, 8 years old now? Quit changing core parts of the game and just be done with it. I love this game, and I respect TFP for what they've made, but at some point you've just got to accept what this game is and let it be. Make a sequel and try out all these other ideas and see how they work.

[mstdv inc]

Can we add a new reaction emoji? Christmas tree or Latan in Santa hat 😄
 

[Outlaw_187]

23 hours ago, POCKET951 said:

What? What Is your secret? With how little acid I find, the Greasemonkey perk feels so useless and wasteful because I'm not even finding enough of a key resource to craft with it. Why invest in something I will never have the resources to craft? 

 

In a19 you'd find enough acid to actually craft stuff.

 

 In alpha 20 atm anything that requires acid to craft  is like playing in a sandbox with no tools. You can't really do anything 

Yeah I'd say rng is F'ing you right in the A. I'm on day 6 now after a restart & I've got like 7 acid. 

 

Now my 1st playthrough when A20 dropped, I couldn't find antibiotics to save my life. Got to like day 7 or 8 & only found 2 honey. 

 

This playthrough I've got 4 blue & white antibiotics. Rng dude....🤷

[Khalagar]

We can all agree that the rarest item in the game is actually the SMG. I've never seen a single one yet despite having almost every other weapon in the game, and haven't found the book either. Every streamer I saw said the same thing as well

 

SMG has to have some kind of super low RNG spawn chance. I guess that could be one alternative to the 44 mag issue. Have a pipe SMG that uses 9mm and have the pipe revolver use 44 mag rounds

[meganoth]

21 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

We can all agree that the rarest item in the game is actually the SMG. I've never seen a single one yet despite having almost every other weapon in the game, and haven't found the book either. Every streamer I saw said the same thing as well

 

SMG has to have some kind of super low RNG spawn chance. I guess that could be one alternative to the 44 mag issue. Have a pipe SMG that uses 9mm and have the pipe revolver use 44 mag rounds

 

I think I found out why:

<lootgroup name="groupWeaponsT3_Gunslinger01" count="all" loot_quality_template=
"QLTemplateT3">
        <item name="gunHandgunT3SMG5"/>
</lootgroup>

<lootgroup name="groupWeaponsT3_Gunslinger02" count="all" loot_quality_template="QLTemplateT3">
        <item name="gunHandgunT3DesertVulture"/>
</lootgroup>

 

SMG got a promotion to tier3. (Or am I wrong in thinking it was still tier2 in previous alphas??)

[MechanicalLens]

34 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

We can all agree that the rarest item in the game is actually the SMG. I've never seen a single one yet despite having almost every other weapon in the game, and haven't found the book either. Every streamer I saw said the same thing as well

 

SMG has to have some kind of super low RNG spawn chance. I guess that could be one alternative to the 44 mag issue. Have a pipe SMG that uses 9mm and have the pipe revolver use 44 mag rounds

 

This was the case in A19 as well.

10 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

I think I found out why:

<lootgroup name="groupWeaponsT3_Gunslinger01" count="all" loot_quality_template=
"QLTemplateT3">
        <item name="gunHandgunT3SMG5"/>
</lootgroup>

<lootgroup name="groupWeaponsT3_Gunslinger02" count="all" loot_quality_template="QLTemplateT3">
        <item name="gunHandgunT3DesertVulture"/>
</lootgroup>

 

SMG got a promotion to tier3. (Or am I wrong in thinking it was still tier2 in previous alphas??)

 

Nope, it's been T3 since A19 (possibly A18?). But yes, SMG's seem to be the rarest of the T3 weapons by far.

[meganoth]

6 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

 

This was the case in A19 as well.

 

Nope, it's been T3 since A19 (possibly A18?). But yes, SMG's seem to be the rarest of the T3 weapons by far.

 

According to xml it is exactly as rare as the vulture and both weapons drop alternatively as the AGI tier3 gun. So the chance is halved compared to tier3 guns of other attribute trees.

 

 

[MechanicalLens]

4 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

According to xml it is exactly as rare as the vulture and both weapons drop alternatively as the AGI tier3 gun. So the chance is halved compared to tier3 guns of other attribute trees.

 

 

 

Ahh, I see. So it's a double edged sword then.

[Callum123456789]

 

hmmmmmm.....interesting

[MechanicalLens]

24 minutes ago, Callum123456789 said:

 

hmmmmmm.....interesting

 

"Coroniw Apes"... How strange...

[spacepiggio]

Thanks for the Stable & will future patches be backward compatible for saved games & will U let us know when to use the Corana Wipes. I wasn't expecting this until Jan., awesome work during the Holidays, Merry Xmas...Pimps & fellow Fan Boys...I can finally get passed Day 7...Chaos to all & to all a good Z Bath...

[saltychipmunk]

7 hours ago, bdubyah said:

I have to disagree with that. It's part of the game. Anyone who has any time in this game knows that. It lacks depth because that depth has been removed over the years. As stated, it made much more sense when you mined raw iron and other raw resources instead of the same resource you get from scrapping something. I just don't see that being an improvement. The only reason the forge seems to be an outlier is because it was made that way with all the other bits around it being stripped out. There's nothing wrong with it.

 

If a new player cannot figure it out without flashing signs and excessive hand-holding, then that should be on them to put the effort in to learn it. It's not on the game to dumb itself down until the slowest player can do it with ease. Some hover tooltips wouldn't be the worst thing, and I would much rather see that than have the forge basically removed from the game. But constantly changing things because 'iz 2 hrd" isn't good because it just makes people that aren't new to the game confused as well because @%$# keeps changing. This game really just needs to be pushed to gold before it's a completely different game. Take all these ideas and use them for the sequel.

 

Honestly the bigger reason why they combined ore and scrap together is less about complexity and more about clutter.  

 

I guess the mold system was interesting.. but again so much clutter for items that were easy to craft but a massive pain to store and otherwise  worthless when you had what you needed.

 

Functionally you technically still melt both down.  So I hardly see a reason for there to be two resource types if at the end of the day you have to melt them both down to use them.  if it were a case where there was a plethora of iron scrap specific crafting recipes .. sure I get that we lost something. I but i do not  think that is the case.

 

Now one system I do miss is the gun part system. Simply because right now it is a bit to easy to just find a massive progression skip by finding a gun in a toilet. 

 

Its not as op as the gosh darn traders though .. holy cow those are still too good. 

 

At the end of the day we need to take a step back and ask, what is the focus of 7d2d?  is it about making a believable crafting system with all the steps and intricacies ?

Or is it a hybrid exploration / tower defense / base  defense  wit h light survival.

 

Personally I think the game is right where it needs to be ..  let it go gold and then let the mod community take it from there.  We all know someone will make a mod to add the complexity back

[Dares]

3 hours ago, Khalagar said:

We can all agree that the rarest item in the game is actually the SMG. I've never seen a single one yet despite having almost every other weapon in the game, and haven't found the book either. Every streamer I saw said the same thing as well

 

SMG has to have some kind of super low RNG spawn chance. I guess that could be one alternative to the 44 mag issue. Have a pipe SMG that uses 9mm and have the pipe revolver use 44 mag rounds

I think that the rarest item in the game is the rocket launcher schematics. In our gameplay we had several SMG, that is after day 100 but i never saw a rocket L schematic in my almost 600h of play

[Kosmic Kerman]

3 hours ago, Khalagar said:

We can all agree that the rarest item in the game is actually the SMG. I've never seen a single one yet despite having almost every other weapon in the game, and haven't found the book either. Every streamer I saw said the same thing as well

 

SMG has to have some kind of super low RNG spawn chance. I guess that could be one alternative to the 44 mag issue. Have a pipe SMG that uses 9mm and have the pipe revolver use 44 mag rounds

I've seen the schematic several times at traders in my current game around Day 19. 

[Matt115]

5 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

 

What you want and what needs to be done are two totally separate things. We, the 1000+ hour players who want and love depth, are simply not the target audience, and that isn't an outcry, that's just life. That's just business. What's bad for business is a new player attempting to figure out what to do with the forge, getting frustrated, rage quitting the game, and leaving it a bad review. A good mainstream game should have every mechanic be easily accessible and easy to understand at the snap of a finger. It's a major problem, if you follow the subreddit - new players being puzzled with the mechanics of the forge (or "smelter") happens a lot more than you'd might think.

 

Well not everygame must be focused to be "player friendly" dark souls or touhou popularity confirm this. Valheim have so slow crafting melting system and upgrading system so most streamers complain about that. and... that is good. Games don't have to be for everyone. 7dtd well is... almost done so nobody will do big changes in this game. But sequel can be more complicated like - primitive forge- iron, modern forge- steel , industrial forge - hardener steel , if you want make modern axe you need electrical hammer, more edgy setting ( you know rotting corpses, zombie teens, hanging bodies etc ). And if it will be done well this game will be popular because it will be hard and diffrent that most survival sandboxes

[Lord Morphleyes]

6 hours ago, MechanicalLens said:

 

What's bad for business is a new player attempting to figure out what to do with the forge, getting frustrated, rage quitting the game, and leaving it a bad review. A good mainstream game should have every mechanic be easily accessible and easy to understand at the snap of a finger. It's a major problem, if you follow the subreddit - new players being puzzled with the mechanics of the forge (or "smelter") happens a lot more than you'd might 

 

Whats bad for business is trying to please everyone.  Anyone who would rage quit because they can't figure out the forge is someone I don't want anywhere near 7d2d and I don't care who they tell on their way out the door. "Yeah go ahead buddy, tell all your entitled simpleton friends how horrible 7d2d is so they can all stay the hell away too." 

Yes, the forge took some figuring out but I put in the time and worked it out and I had a sense of accomplishment when I did. Don't give me a medal just for showing up. 

 

The forge adds a element to the resource management that has provided tension and angst when racing the clock of an upcoming BM.  Dont touch my FORGE. 

 

Just like those little icons that tell you where to find a rock and nest at the start of the game. I dont like them. Takes away the reward of searching like a naked mad man/woman trying to find something to make a weapon before a zombie arrives. 

But its a small thing since now that a20 stable is out I will NEVER start a new game again!!!!!

[unholyjoe]

damn.... this close to Christmas and a20 stable is out for everyone to enjoy but there seems to be anger issues.

 

any ways... Merry Christmas to whom celebrate/observe it in their own way and be safe thru the holidays.

 

🎄🎅

[MechanicalLens]

3 hours ago, saltychipmunk said:

Its not as op as the gosh darn traders though .. holy cow those are still too good.

 

I'm about to start a new playthrough without traders... I'm curious how it will go...

[Matt115]

5 minutes ago, unholyjoe said:

damn.... this close to Christmas and a20 stable is out for everyone to enjoy but there seems to be anger issues.

 

any ways... Merry Christmas to whom celebrate/observe it in their own way and be safe thru the holidays.

 

🎄🎅

THX for new i didn't know about stable rly thx so much.

Yeah , some of use are just annoyed because "simplification" of games  is more  and more often. cod , bf etc go in bad way so some of us want too keep 7dtd game maybe not popular but with "stable and loyal" community. Well a lot of people play in heroes of might and magic 3  but a lot of "popular" games are forgotten.

@unholyjoe If you could influence on how sequel of 7dtd would looks like you prefere to be more like fortnite for everyone and quiet simple or more  like plague tale and days gone with dark setting and complexed mechanic?

 

Merry Christmas! 🎅

[hiemfire]

5 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

<lootgroup name="groupWeaponsT3_Gunslinger01" count="all" loot_quality_template=
"QLTemplateT3">
        <item name="gunHandgunT3SMG5"/>
</lootgroup>

<lootgroup name="groupWeaponsT3_Gunslinger02" count="all" loot_quality_template="QLTemplateT3">
        <item name="gunHandgunT3DesertVulture"/>
</lootgroup>

 

 

Would the "QLTemplateT3" in the first set of <> being offset from the rest of that section of the code by a full line, sort of like someone pressed [Enter] while typing it, alter anything? The portion for the Desert Vulture doesn't have that and it is apparently dropping in loot.

[Red Eagle LXIX]

6 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

 

Would the "QLTemplateT3" in the first set of <> being offset from the rest of that section of the code by a full line, sort of like someone pressed [Enter] while typing it, alter anything? The portion for the Desert Vulture doesn't have that and it is apparently dropping in loot.

No for 2 reasons.

1. it is XML and the white space should be ignored.

2. That is only wrapped like that due the forum, in the actual file it does not look like that.

[hiemfire]

4 minutes ago, Red Eagle LXIX said:

No for 2 reasons.

1. it is XML and the white space should be ignored.

2. That is only wrapped like that due the forum, in the actual file it does not look like that.

1. Okay, so xml doesn't consider a line break as something to process. Good to know.

2. Um. This is cut out from a screen shot with my browser window condensed a bit.

"QLTemplateT3" in the first <> set is on a different line from the rest of that line of code.

[Red Eagle LXIX]

3 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

1. Okay, so xml doesn't consider a line break as something to process. Good to know.

2. Um. This is cut out from a screen shot with my browser window condensed a bit.

"QLTemplateT3" in the first <> set is on a different line from the rest of that line of code.

Here is a screenshot from my text editor with the actual loot.xml file opened:

[Jay_ombie]

After watching some play and knowing about short cuts getting to the POI LOOT, would it be way better to only spawn in the loot at the required destination after the last zombie was killed in the POI ?