Callum123456789 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I like the junk turret since it has cheap ammo but balances out for the not so good dmg output so I think the junk turrets traits are pretty solid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomaana Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 We're in the business of selling "fun". If a system requires a lot of reading that takes away from the fun, so it had better be worth it if we're going to take the player out of play time and put him in class for a bit. But, to be fair to the current system, it doesn't take much to explain it. I never read the journal entries at all and figured it out relatively easily through trial and error. If you pay attention to the bars while you eat, drink, apply bandages, etc. it is pretty obvious what each does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unholyjoe Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I like the junk turret since it has cheap ammo but balances out for the not so good dmg output so I think the junk turrets traits are pretty solid i like it as a back protection device.. you know like... "Watch my Back" while i pick this safe or looting... but i definitely wont use it for Blood Moon.. we have bigger weapons for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotpoon Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I have an idea (I don't know how possible it is though) Maybe you can make 1 of the Z's in the POI drop a key when killed (or make it drop in some container inside the POI) to open the loot room door/boxes, that would make the player sneak/loot for the key or blast the Z's to find it. No tricks, just grind. Maybe in some Military POI's you can find a Magnetic Card that opens some kind of bunker with lots of loot. That's really clever. I'd love that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FileMachete Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 You can unlock the full rotation in the blocks xml., and ts one of the first things I do in ever new alpha. Aiming them can be weird if they are upside down, but I also dislike the shadows, and have seen spotllghts mounted on ceilings in real life. It also doesn't matter if you unlock the rotation in mid game. Thanks for the tip Gareee, I'll have to give that a go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonestarcanuck Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I am sure I missed this thread a long time ago so I am going to ask... "Why do we have AK and 7.62 instead of 556/223 AR style weapons that are the most popular round in the US after 22?" the "AR" style weapon M4/M16 variant has so many real life mod options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon197 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Junk Turret! can be crafted. can be placed on a wall. can be picked up and even used like a gun. requires not electric and no dang brass involved for ammo. Yes - but at the same time no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falcon197 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 i like it as a back protection device.. you know like... "Watch my Back" while i pick this safe or looting... but i definitely wont use it for Blood Moon.. we have bigger weapons for that. Exactly my point. Junk turrets are fine and all, but why not have a mountable, player-controlled M60 as a higher-tier point defense option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomaana Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Yes that was my first problem with ISS, I was angry I wasn't healing right away and was wasting food trying to heal. The question is, why go to all that work to be tricky and try to represent you are injured from a lot of battle. Its a simulation feature that takes away from simply enjoying the game IMO, and is a blocker to new players having fun and getting hooked. Sigh, the whole game can't be designed around the mythical "new player" not having to learn anything at all. If that is the new design philosophy then all games just become pale copies of each other. Sure it is possible to go to far and make stuff so complex it is just a pain to a) learn and b) keep track of. BUT, every game doesn't have to be as simple as a FPS and just click and forget every single feature. I expect some complex systems I'll have to figure out when I pick a game billing itself as a survival game. I don't think I'm alone in that expectation. It's been a staple of the genre for years and years and the genre hasn't died out so..... - - - Updated - - - You are comparing apples with oranges. Books are not food, and there is no reason for them to despawn. Judging by the rarity of bookstores, books, and the amount of the new books you are adding, it is unlikely that everyone would have all books in a couple of days. Also books are not the only reason to loot, so your argument goes poof. I guess the part with godmode and credits is just the friendly way you treat your customers by making a suggestion sound trivial and stupid. Thank you for your kind consideration. His point is that to make multiplayer at all difficult books would have to be so rare that the game wouldn't be playable solo. Making them single use fixes that issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Careful hommie do not speak for me and the other 99.99999999% percent of players. I do use Auto turrets, speak for yourself and not others. - - - Updated - - - FYI there is a perk for that, its the first perk I invest in EDIT: nevermind misread Maxhealth. Simple bandages fix max health, is it really that hard to craft them? (laughing) Nope, not hard at all to make them. Still comes down to "Why is a 'regular' bandage replenishing your MaxHealth bar?" Just make it do what it is intended to do "Stopping you from bleeding out". If you are 'not' bleeding why would you think to use it to help get your MaxHealth back up? Food, drink, and medicines, should do what they do, "Increasing your natural healing ability". You should have a starting "Natural Healing Factor", which you do, but the numbers are set to where you only get 1 point per 1 real life hour currently. If you invest in all the Natural healing factor Perk, you get 1 point per 1 real minute (or close to). So just adjust the starting natural healing factor, so players can see it working. It doesn't imbalance the current system. You still use up Food and Water to regain Health. You want it to heal faster? keep your food and drink up. Use medicines (Medicated bandages, med kits, etc,.) to get a big temp gain. *Just in case people are getting confused* I'm for keeping the system, with a minor value adjustment. So it's easier, for those having difficulty with it in the beginning. Heck, keep the regular bandages as a type of "miracle cure" that refills your MaxHealth bar, for all I really care. Since it is so easy to make, then adjusting the players already "Natural Healing Factor" is not a balance breaker by any means, and no different. It also still works with all the other related perks. It does however, give the player a sense that it is working though, by seeing it work! (as long as you are not dehydrated and starving). And, since it's not enough to recoup all your health back (in a 24hr game day), if you got your butt kicked, It doesn't affect the overall game-play. It will however, give the "newb player" enough back to continue to play, if they for some reason don't have anything to increase their MaxHealth bar, so food and water can actually increase your 'Health' (red bar). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 That is mostly because the hunger/thirst stats are counterintuitive. Dying from thirst or hunger at 25% filled ?!? I bet when it does show your'e near 0% most players would understand it, not? What the actual value is in the background does not matter (like 1 % stamina is as good as zero movement), it is what is displayed. There has to be a minimum stamina or you couldn't even walk or punch a corn to eat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotpoon Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I have an idea (I don't know how possible it is though) Maybe you can make 1 of the Z's in the POI drop a key when killed (or make it drop in some container inside the POI) to open the loot room door/boxes, that would make the player sneak/loot for the key or blast the Z's to find it. No tricks, just grind. Maybe in some Military POI's you can find a Magnetic Card that opens some kind of bunker with lots of loot. Just thinking about this more... TFP would need to make that special loot box at the end of the POI either: - indestructible (like the silver chests in Terrraia), or - make the contents break if the chest is broken open by force Added to that, someone who has all the lockpick books could maybe gain the ability to pick the lock instead of find the key as a drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 I'm really glad that you will look at making it a bit more intuitive. After over 4000 hours in this game, my husband quit 7 Days to Die over A17's Health and stamina system. Maybe I can rope him back in for A19. I'm also really happy that you guys take such pride in your work that you haven't gone gold prematurely. I know there are a lot of whingers who feel the game should'nt have been in Alpha this long, but I guess that is the difference between a cash grab and a labour of love. IMO it will need a design change, no amount of gui magic will fix this. Yes we want to make a great product that people talk about and are playing 5+ years after we're done, and give them a strong reason to buy the sequel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotpoon Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 IMO it will need a design change, no amount of gui magic will fix this. Yes we want to make a great product that people talk about and are playing 5+ years after we're done, and give them a strong reason to buy the sequel. Sequel? Shutup and take my money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blake_ Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 It's more of a pre-post mortem blurb, we wouldn't do it again, we both agreed that it is over designed, that doesn't mean we're going to all the work of changing it or removing it. Having played from the beginning, I agree it took me your video explanation and a bit of playing to understand the system. I've never touched the tips. Water is a must explain without the tips. Food is understandable without the tips. All this stuff would be easily tweakable putting a couple of icons/info inside the blue bar: 1- A food icon in the blue bar. 2- A % or stamina regeneration number like while testing a17, I mean, something simple and ergonomic to let beginners understand it without wasting time reading those tips that nobody wants to read about the very first thing you experience in game. All of that is no clutter, no added space and helps a great deal the already great system that you have here. Also, It's not that easy because hey, no game that I know of uses it so effectibly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 No plans to remove it because you can build ladders really fast and do the same thing, but we've talked about auto turrets in the loot room you would have to find the power to and disable. Ladders require walls to attach to. Maybe at least do the same with frames? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieSurvivor Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Nope, not hard at all to make them. Still comes down to "Why is a 'regular' bandage replenishing your MaxHealth bar?" Just make it do what it is intended to do "Stopping you from bleeding out". If you are 'not' bleeding why would you think to use it to help get your MaxHealth back up? <snip> I have no idea and never said a player would just think a bandage would heal there max health. as far as everything else you said, ok I hear yah but i'm not interested in that subject or have an opinion about it. The point to my post was just telling you not to speak on behalf of all 7D2D players and asking if simple bandages were hard to make lol. EDIT: I went back and read my original response, I never told you not to speak on everyone elses behalf, I was telling the other dude. I only asked you if bandages were hard to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 It feels like the few players that are to lazy to learn how to play a game wants games to be simplified for them. Maybe they should go and stick with *Cough Nintendo Cough* another platform that is geared towards childrens mindset and intelligence. Could you imagine if they tried learning to play Kerbal Space Program, Heat, Conan Exiles, SCUM or Space Engineers there heads would explode. This world is becoming puss*** way to much and intelligence is dropping as a result, or maybe thats because of Fluoride in the water??? lol. This game is not that hard to learn and the UI is not complicated by any means in my opinion. *hears man screaming* *Hey dude your going to start an uprour voicing your opinion*:miserable::upset: *Yells back, whats your point?* *walks off in to the sunset smiling* Quote: "honest conflict has more social value than dishonest harmony" Yeah but you have to walk a fine line between elegant and klunky designs, or unnecessarily complicated. If the wheel isn't broke don't fix it. In my opinion its a sharp stick. Oh I need this special bandage to heal instead of what would normally work most of the time. The same thing could be accomplished with a "battle fatigue debuff" that you get rid of when bandages/medicine and then it would be intuitive to fix, like any other disease. Max health damage is not communicated the standard way and is assumed people will figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Re turrets: I'd like the opportunity to fire the regular turrets manually if they're non powered too... That way if I get one, it isn't useless if I don't have electricity. Seems the junk turrets have more features than the "good" ones, unless a18 changes them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unholyjoe Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Ladders require walls to attach to. Maybe at least do the same with frames? right.. use the frames to make a wall so you can place a frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Yeah but you have to walk a fine line between elegant and klunky designs, or unnecessarily complicated. If the wheel isn't broke don't fix it. In my opinion its a sharp stick. Oh I need this special bandage to heal instead of what would normally work most of the time. The same thing could be accomplished with a "battle fatigue debuff" that you get rid of when bandages/medicine and then it would be intuitive to fix, like any other disease. Max health damage is not communicated the standard way and is assumed people will figure it out. Tin did a bit where you get an adrenaline rush of stamina at some point in battle and then suffer the consequences of coming down afterwards... Longer Regen time, greater hunger, etc... Might be cool to add to a beserker build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I have no idea and never said a player would just think a bandage would heal there max health. as far as everything else you said, ok I hear yah but i'm not interested in that subject or have an opinion about it. The point to my post was just telling you not to speak on behalf of all 7D2D players and asking if simple bandages were hard to make lol. Then how about you quit trying to talk for those I play with then alright? I only speak for me and those I play with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiftpaw Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I hope A18 will be more stable. A17.4 is so crashy in multiplayer games during zombie hordes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieSurvivor Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Yeah but you have to walk a fine line between elegant and klunky designs, or unnecessarily complicated. If the wheel isn't broke don't fix it. In my opinion its a sharp stick. Oh I need this special bandage to heal instead of what would normally work most of the time. The same thing could be accomplished with a "battle fatigue debuff" that you get rid of when bandages/medicine and then it would be intuitive to fix, like any other disease. Max health damage is not communicated the standard way and is assumed people will figure it out. Good points, I would also agree that max health damage is not communicated in an easy to understand way. Not sure if direction are written in the Journal as i never looked. Took me a minute to figure out what the heck the black bar meant. I think i even had to ask someone or had to look here on the forums. - - - Updated - - - Then how about you quit trying to talk for those I play with then alright? I only speak for me and those I play with. You trippin' because i never once spoke for you or anyone else (if i did then show me exactly where so i can apologize, because i would be a hypocrite to tell you not to if i am doing it as well). Take care dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FileMachete Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Ladders require walls to attach to. Maybe at least do the same with frames? Pretty sure they have a 'vertical support' value? I know you can hang ladders downward, so guessing you could build up as you climb? Or does the collision box prevent building upwards with ladders? Place a couple, begin climbing, but to be high enough to place the next ladder the player c-box is in the way? (no idea, will have to try this at some point) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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