agrastiOs Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I really don't think that the mechanics of ISS itself should be changed, it's just a symptom of poor resources to learn mechanics. My friends didn't understand more than ISS, should all these mechanics they didn't understand be dumbed down? The game really needs improvements with the help resources. Give an incentive to look at the journal, do first time hints, add more tips in the loading screen, maybe even make a tutorial too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechanicalLens Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I think if the game could be paused while the player read the journal, that might give a lot more new players the incentive to read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 If it was anything else EXCEPT the UI I'd agree... but this is supposed to be the abstraction for what my character feels/senses, so I shouldn't have to read a manual to understand if I'm thirsty, hungry, or hurt. It should be intuitive and basically a passive experience. Intuitiveness is a myth. Remember shooters were a tutorial mission explains how to use a mouse klick to shoot and what the health bar means? If you think that is intuitive, why do they have that explanation? Because to someone who never played a shooter even that isn't self-explanatory. In the previous months I started about a handful games for the first time and in each I had to do some trial and error (a JRPG and an adventure for example) or even reading (Oxygen not included) to understand game and UI. I even remember the first time I played Diablo (years ago) I didn't know what the red and blue bowl meant, but simply playing for a minute showed me. My point: Intuitiveness is always about recognizing similarities to stuff you know. Red cross is the perfect example. And I bet you never would intuitively know what a blue bar means if you hadn't seen it in some other game before. It follows that if you have something new in a game, you can make it more or less intuitive by showing where it is similar to stuff you know, but you can never really reach complete intuitiveness. Because there is something there that IS new and that part needs the players brain to understand. By trial and error, tutorial or explanation. Gamers are so used to using trial and error for that nowadays that we do that instinctively and often don't even remember that we did. Or to make something as good as or better than this (concept-wise)? If there was no text beside the curved bars you would not know that the yellow bar means armor. Or one blue stamina and the other blue energy. If it were not explained a player has no chance to intuitively understand a new function unless he saw something similar in another game. He will use trial and error or look it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorca Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I really don't think that the mechanics of ISS itself should be changed, it's just a symptom of poor resources to learn mechanics. My friends didn't understand more than ISS, should all these mechanics they didn't understand be dumbed down? The game really needs improvements with the help resources. Give an incentive to look at the journal, do first time hints, add more tips in the loading screen, maybe even make a tutorial too. I think it either needs a tutorial or it needs to change, preferably change. In my humble opinion: 1) Both food and health items (any health items including regular bandages) should restore health. But the better the health item, the more health it should restore. Food should only restore a very little bit of health because it's main job is to feed you so you don't starve. 2) The only thing that should affect stamina is weather (really hot or cold) and maybe baggage encumbrance. 3) You shouldn't start having problems with your health or stamina until you are actually starving (zero food). I know I get really tired if I don't eat well on gym days, but dammit all this is a game. We don't have to make everything hyper realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum123456789 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Really? Everybody is just going to ignore the two Smiley situation??? o_o Allright... but don't come to me if you get swept away by the hypewave SMILEYSSSSS I sense they symbolise a18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotpoon Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 It feels like the few players that are to lazy to learn how to play a game wants games to be simplified for them. Maybe they should go and stick with *Cough Nintendo Cough* another platform that is geared towards childrens mindset and intelligence. Could you imagine if they tried learning to play Kerbal Space Program, Heat, Conan Exiles, SCUM or Space Engineers there heads would explode. This world is becoming puss*** way to much and intelligence is dropping as a result, or maybe thats because of Fluoride in the water??? lol. This game is not that hard to learn and the UI is not complicated by any means in my opinion. *hears man screaming* *Hey dude your going to start an uprour voicing your opinion*:miserable::upset: *Yells back, whats your point?* *walks off in to the sunset smiling* Quote: "honest conflict has more social value than dishonest harmony" Insulting the intelligence and assuming the age of people you know nothing about is really not helpful in a civil discussion like the one we were having. There's also nothing complicated at all about Conan Exiles and Space Engineers Health and stamina systems, so not sure what you are on about. I think it either needs a tutorial or it needs to change, preferably change. In my humble opinion: 1) Both food and health items (any health items including regular bandages) should restore health. But the better the health item, the more health it should restore. Food should only restore a very little bit of health because it's main job is to feed you so you don't starve. 2) The only thing that should affect stamina is weather (really hot or cold) and maybe baggage encumbrance. 3) You shouldn't start having problems with your health or stamina until you are actually starving (zero food). I know I get really tired if I don't eat well on gym days, but dammit all this is a game. We don't have to make everything hyper realistic. I tend to agree, but I would go one step further and also say that the health, stamina, hunger and thirst bars should really be shown on the screen by default. Of course, it would be nice also if there was a toggle to switch off those bars for minimalists like Roland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieSurvivor Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Just a question.... I how many years we can hit the A18??? You're going to be waiting a life time, I do not think you can actually hit A18. Its always fun to shadow box though - - - Updated - - - I agree.. but a18 has more plentiful brass, so hopefully that it is balanced now. I recall quitting a17 (I think) on guppy's server because around day 120 or so I couldn't keep up with ammo production because of the lack of brass, and repairs to the base just too most of the following week. I spent the last horde night in a disposable rubble skyscraper because I didn't want to repair the base yet again. ...and it felt stupid to have built a base and not be able to actually use it. Building a horde base specifally for BM is a smart move... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieSurvivor Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Insulting the intelligence and assuming the age of people you know nothing about is really not helpful in a civil discussion like the one we were having. There's also nothing complicated at all about Conan Exiles and Space Engineers Health and stamina systems, so not sure what you are on about. Who exactly intelligence did I direct that towards? Who exactly did i assume the age of? Those were general statements I made in the post that offended you, not directed towards anyone specific. Nintendo is made, for the most part, children 15 and under, fact. *walks away in the sunset smiling* You do not have to agree with my opinion as I do not have to adjust my opinion based on your feelings. Thanks for the response though. Edit: Here is a way to analyze what i said. Keywords i used..."It feels like, Maybe they should, Could you imagine, maybe thats. The only statement I made clear, directed towards something specific was "This game is not that hard to learn.........." At the very ended I even pointed out that its just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 Madmole , was the lagg fixed with Solar panels and pressure plates...??? No, we can't reproduce it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 Well, it is not a bad idea for an unique weapon. I remember a solar powered weapon in FO with low damage that doesn't need bullets. A weapon that gives a percentage of just the casings isn't half bad. Or even a perk. 1% of casing retrieval. Sounds cool. Sounds like a waste of dev time. There is lots of ways to get brass in 18 now. Go harvest an AC unit for a radiator, cars, door knobs, plumbing from sinks, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amanitasec Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I really don't think that the mechanics of ISS itself should be changed, it's just a symptom of poor resources to learn mechanics. My friends didn't understand more than ISS, should all these mechanics they didn't understand be dumbed down? The game really needs improvements with the help resources. Give an incentive to look at the journal, do first time hints, add more tips in the loading screen, maybe even make a tutorial too. More tips on the loading screen would be perfect. Iam here since A3 and I dont feel the needs for tips, so you or friends should point which tips are must have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 Question for MM or any other dev that happens to come past. Does CraftingTime now accept tags in A18? For example. <passive_effect name="CraftingTime" operation="perc_subtract" level="1,5" value="0.01,0.05"/> That works globally in A17. <passive_effect name="CraftingTime" operation="perc_subtract" level="1,5" value="0.01,0.05" tags="armorClothHat,armorClothJacket,armorClothGloves,armorClothPants,armorClothBoots"/> That does nothing, even globally. Yes this works: <passive_effect name="CraftingTime" operation="perc_add" level="1,5" value="-0.2" tags="perkChemist"/> You don't add the item name as a tag you tag the item itself with this perk tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 Hi Joel, I remember long time ago a concept art you made about a flame-thrower turret. Is it still in the plans? It would be cool to have some roaster near the base entrance... it wouldn't be OP because my guess is it would burn fuel like there was no future! (pun intended) Probably for a19. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 I was just going to ask about the Flamethrower turret and if there was any progress or if it was scrapped? Another idea for something like that would be a Solar powered turret that focuses light and burns enemies for massive damage...but would only work in the daytime...Plus give some more uses for a Solar Panel! I'd rather see a 762 turret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonestarcanuck Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I'd rather see a 762 turret. Amen to that! 762 that also uses STEEL ammo would be nice. with grenades I can also see a Grenade launcher mod for my AK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 Save yourself some work... It's more of a pre-post mortem blurb, we wouldn't do it again, we both agreed that it is over designed, that doesn't mean we're going to all the work of changing it or removing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 I wonder if roland plays a18 He is. Why wouldn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum123456789 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 He is. Why wouldn't he? oh im not sure if he had access or not I don't know why I thought he didn't - - - Updated - - - Amen to that! 762 that also uses STEEL ammo would be nice. with grenades I can also see a Grenade launcher mod for my AK. I would also like 762 turrets to but if im correct steel ammunition is being removed - - - Updated - - - I also want to state one thing is the early access streaming still open to sign up to because reach gaming is literally only 10 subs off 5k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 I disagree entirely. I actually like the new system but a good game design does not require in depth reading to get the basics of game play. If I have to look up the journal entry for the simple things they are not intuitive and provide more frustration then they merit. That does not mean in any way that they need to be simplified though. IMHO, what is needed is just some simple streamlining in the UI as well as in the in game descriptions of items. I think most questions will be answered with the item descriptions when they are finalized to be honest. Some people like complex designs, most don't. You are right though, one of my philosophies as a designer is to never take the player out of the game to a wiki (website or youtube) to be able to understand something. Another thing is when you write the journal tip, if you are struggling to explain it in words, or its too long you probably over designed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callum123456789 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 if you don't mind me asking what does roland think of a18 any favourite aspects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 Whoa, deja vu. I'm not going to claim the current food/health/stamina/hunger system is perfect(I am a big fan of it), but I think it is wrong to restrict design to systems that instantly clear to all players, as if such a thing exists. Seriously, what's the problem with short journal entries? You guys are starting to make me feel like a codger thinking, 'why can't these damn kids just read a bit?' The things that might seem 'intuitive' could also just be familiar and learned, not a priori. How are you supposed to make something cool and new? not just a copy of every other game system simply because people will get it without complaining. The Internet is always there for players to ask others simple questions if needed. I know I've seen some ridiculous ♥♥♥♥ asked about other games and thinking, "how did they not understand that?" We're in the business of selling "fun". If a system requires a lot of reading that takes away from the fun, so it had better be worth it if we're going to take the player out of play time and put him in class for a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZombieSurvivor Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 arrived my phone sucks i need a new one lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 oh im not sure if he had access or not I don't know why I thought he didn't Well, he regularly has to send money to a bank account in the Caymans for that privilege. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerfly Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 <a cup> Well, cheers ! *clunk* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmole Posted August 21, 2019 Author Share Posted August 21, 2019 For me it comes down to I shouldn't have to keep asking what thing I need to do to heal, or wonder why my health is low, or wonder why I have a thirsty icon when my blue is full... I know I'm kinda dumb though. Yes that was my first problem with ISS, I was angry I wasn't healing right away and was wasting food trying to heal. The question is, why go to all that work to be tricky and try to represent you are injured from a lot of battle. Its a simulation feature that takes away from simply enjoying the game IMO, and is a blocker to new players having fun and getting hooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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