Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[Trekkan]

I'll just say that I'm happy with how things are going at the moment. That isn't to say I like every decision TFP makes, but at the same time... this is their game, not mine. Also, I rarely agree with anyone or thing 100%.

 

I don't play the game much and haven't for some time, mostly because myself and my group of friends don't want to keep starting over. I play each update for a few hours to see the new changes, etc, but I don't "play". Sure, we could not update, but then the bug fixes aren't there, the cool new stuff can't be used, etc. This isn't TFPs fault, its the nature of EA. We know that, we accept that. So waiting for the game to be gold and relatively bug free (nothing is 100% bug free), is what we've been doing.

 

I've spent 1000's of hours writing my RAT server manager over the years for 7D2D. Sometimes it is frustrating, sometimes thankless, but ultimately I find it rewarding and it is how I CHOOSE to spend my time. I could just wait until the game is released, and never work on it again and just "do it once". But I enjoy the time I choose to put into it, just as everyone else here enjoys the time they choose to put into playing the game itself.

 

People just need to mellow the hell out and either step away from the keyboard, or at least the forum for a bit and accept some personal responsibility for how they choose to spend their time. You are owed the game TFP promised in the KS, nothing more. Anything more (and there is a LOT more that they've added) is a bonus you should be grateful for, not whine about.

[Jackelmyer]

Thanks, but what I mean is I want to be able to ship a game in 3-4 years like they can, and I want to be able to have interesting story, memorable NPCs and quest lines like Bethesda and a moddable framework for mod authors to keep the game interesting with new mods for years to come.

 

As for AAA, I want our game to look and feel close to the quality of a AAA game. That means it runs good on average computers, and visually looks nice and sounds nice, plays nice, all of it. Not "Why does this game look 20 years old and runs like crap?"

 

Wait, really? Is that realistic?

 

7 Days is probably always going to have sub par graphics. But that's a Voxel fully destroyable world trade off right?

 

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The steam backend shows how many players fit into "hours buckets". Most players are 2 hours or less. I'm like that. I buy games and don't like them and never play them again.

 

Uuugh. Statistics fail Madmole.

 

Those 2 hour counts are throw aways. Of course most fall into the 2 hour bucket. Steam has loads of stupid cheap or sometimes free to play games that people try for a minute and don't like it.

[webskorpion]

The steam backend shows how many players fit into "hours buckets". Most players are 2 hours or less. I'm like that. I buy games and don't like them and never play them again.

 

With statistics one should be careful. It also depends on how these statistics came about. The correct interpretation of the statistics is important, so that one does not draw wrong conclusions.

 

I checked my stream account. About 30% of the games I bought, I did not play or very little. However, during each game I carefully considered whether to buy it or not.

 

Example "Fallout New Vegas": I bought the game when there was a discount at that time. So far, I have not come to play it yet. But I know that it is a good game and will bring me many hours of fun. I loved the predecessor "Fallout 3" and played many hours.

 

By contrast, I'll probably never buy "Fallout 76". I watched videos and read reviews. It does not fulfill my expectations.

 

Conclusion: The Steam statistics are deceptive and can give a distorted impression.

 

Keep in mind that many games are also bought based on recommendations from other players, reviews in magazines, and videos on YouTube. Even if these buyers then find little time to play the game, these customers have bought the game because it promises many hours of fun.

 

But if that promise is not or only partially in place from the beginning, fewer customers will buy the game.

 

It's about the impression the potential player has before buying.

 

It's about the impression the player has when playing.

 

It's about the player's impression when he stops playing.

 

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Of course you can find a hair in the soup with every game. But it's all about basic things that make up an Open World Sandbox Survival Game.

 

Example: If I go to the desert, then my expectation is that there is a snake that is non-toxic and there is a very dangerous snake that is poisonous. Also, I expect that there will be an antidote if I get poisoned by a snakebite. Whether in reality or in the game. Little things can sometimes have a strong influence on the feeling of playing. Implementing a special zombie and a specific animal for every biome can make a big difference.

 

If the player tells a "7 Days to Die" story, then the story will be particularly exciting where the player in the desert has been poisoned by a snake and barely survived. A poisonous snake bite would be a danger even in the later game with steel armor.

 

With the Alpha 17, the game "7 Days to Die" has made a big leap forward, but there is still much to do. It still feels very unfinished, even if you can have a lot of fun.

 

(Unfortunately, I can only speak very little English. I have used translation program German – English.)

[Jackelmyer]

Probably.

 

Sweet! Thanks Madmole!

 

Edit: For the potential nod btw. :-p

[Drithyl]

Uuugh. Statistics fail Madmole.

 

Those 2 hour counts are throw aways. Of course most fall into the 2 hour bucket. Steam has loads of stupid cheap or sometimes free to play games that people try for a minute and don't like it.

 

That doesn't go against the point he's making, though. If those cheap or free games were of good quality and engaging from the first minute, and free of game-breaking bugs or annoying interfaces then the average amount of hours that players play it would increase.

[Jackelmyer]

Just want to say thank you Madmole. I know we can all be a bunch of asshats sometimes. But getting to have us all chat with you now and then is incredibly appreciated. I think we all know you and the rest of TFP are super busy. So just wanted to put the appreciation out there.

 

Thanks a bunch!

 

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That doesn't go against the point he's making, though. If those cheap or free games were of good quality and engaging from the first minute, and free of game-breaking bugs or annoying interfaces then the average amount of hours that players play it would increase.

 

Not really. You can make the best game in the world, for... Some people. But you'll still get a revolving door of 2 hour or less people. It's basically window shopping.

[Gazz]

so is there not a block property that I can set that makes it PlayerDestroyable = TRUE/FALSE ? this would allow us to build (in designer?) places with a mix of breakable and non-breaking items.

There is no such thing.

We are thinking about some new functionality for the perk books but no promises.

 

 

interesting. Empyrion also does this via their "cores" you must destroy first.

Yeah, was gonna say.

 

For Empyrion I built myself a super tiny SV with a gatling gun that can fit through regular doorways so I CAN choose to go through the occasional wall without carrying 20 stacks of explosives. =)

[Cirion]

Yeah, was gonna say.

 

For Empyrion I built myself a super tiny SV with a gatling gun that can fit through regular doorways so I CAN choose to go through the occasional wall without carrying 20 stacks of explosives. =)

 

Except for those annoying POI's which are invincible/admin bases... and certain sadistic scenarios like what piddlefoot made which has virtually all POI's as admin bases...

[Guppycur]

Finally Guppy and I can agree to agree! This is truely an amazing day. Now I'm just waiting for Jax to see the light in what I said.

 

Woah.

 

I've heard that's the secret 8th seal, I wouldn't attempt that...

 

Let's just be happy the two of us have agreed on three things this week and not temp fate.

 

(Modders role, new skill point gate ideas, and that you're not suddenly going to take away 2500 hours of content to target the 30 hour players).

 

...I've been laughing at this whole thing because the thousand hour players arguing with you are the proof against their own argument.

[Roland]

Good sir, I am 99% sure most people would gladly pay for a great DLC (a New York Map with subways and factions for example)

 

 

With a storyline, I am 100% sure if you follow the advise in the book "The Hero of a Thousand Faces", you will make a great story.

 

George Lucas used it as his "Play Book" in his Star Wars series. Focus on the Heroes Journey section if time is short, free to download.

 

If only time could have been a bit too short for Ewoks and Jar Jar...

 

EDIT: lol...reread that and realized I took it wrong. You were telling US to focus on the Heroes Journey section if OUR time is short. I thought you were quoting from the book that storytellers should focus on the heroe's journey if time is short...

[Drithyl]

Not really. You can make the best game in the world, for... Some people. But you'll still get a revolving door of 2 hour or less people. It's basically window shopping.

 

So in your opinion, game developers are 100% powerless when it comes to making people play their game for more than 2 hours? Man, I wonder how the successful games pull it off. It can't just be sheer luck, can it?

[Cirion]

So in your opinion, game developers are 100% powerless when it comes to making people play their game for more than 2 hours? Man, I wonder how the successful games pull it off. It can't just be sheer luck, can it?

 

You can increase the % of players who play more than 2 hrs but you can't get rid of SOME people not playing more than 2 hrs. Even if you literally made THE best survival game in the world, not to be topped by any game in the past, present, or future, there will STILL be people who shelve it after 2 hrs because survival games aren't their cup of tea, they bought it and forgot about it, or some other reason. I think that's the point he was trying to make.

[Demonoid74]

There are no zombie games with perks or attributes are there?

 

Dead Island 1 and Riptide...But that was more of a skill tree/borderlands style perk system with 4 different playable characters...

 

That game was pretty damn fun , loved using Sam B and 2 handed hammer smashing everything...would play online occasionally

and always had people laughing how I would just charge in and smash stuff...Who do you voodoo bitch!

[Jay_ombie]

No I meant I don't like to make content that only 2% of the players might see. Which is why we unblocked vehicles from books.

 

 

 

You see I fit into the context of playing the game a lot but love starting again a lot...

 

So I am personally glad that things are not to far ahead blocked behind level 345 say... ><

[Drithyl]

You can increase the % of players who play more than 2 hrs but you can't get rid of SOME people not playing more than 2 hrs. Even if you literally made THE best survival game in the world, not to be topped by any game in the past, present, or future, there will STILL be people who shelve it after 2 hrs because survival games aren't their cup of tea, they bought it and forgot about it, or some other reason. I think that's the point he was trying to make.

 

That still increases the average amount of hours that players play your game for. And some games are so good that they cross boundaries and draw in people that are not usually attracted to that genre.

[OzHawkeye]

At the end of the day it takes money to keep things rolling. If we improve the first 20 to 30 hours of the game we'll have more people say its a great game (2 hour customers are going to review bomb us) and we'll sell more copies and have more revenue for future features. So in a round about way to get what you guys want (late game, more content) this is the correct way to achieve it by finishing the game in a high quality fashion so it sells well and gives us funding to keep updating it. Adding more and more crap to alpha just makes more bugs and keeps us from delivering our KS promises.

 

I wish more people would realise this.

 

It's also why I'm such an advocate of player choice - the more people who play the game, the more people who highly rate it, the more the game sells, the more money you guys get, and then, the pay off for me, the more likely you are to add even more content to the game.

 

I, for one, fully support you spending time adding content that caters to playstyles I'll never use, simply because I expect that the more successful 7days becomes the more tempted you'll all be to keep working on it. ;-)

[Lonestarcanuck]

There is no such thing.

We are thinking about some new functionality for the perk books but no promises.

 

so I assume each block in the game is an object with properties right? if you are looking at those properties, please consider a property for ownerID so I can query with a mod for who placed it.

[madmole]

First look at the great heist book set!

[danielspoa]

so I assume each block in the game is an object with properties right? if you are looking at those properties, please consider a property for ownerID so I can query with a mod for who placed it.

 

and give experience according to the owner for traps /justsaying

[Lonestarcanuck]

First look at the great heist book set!

 

awesome looking book, will there be an Audio Book version?

 

So Interesting on more PVP content. one of my Son's only likes to play PVP, he is also an armorer in the Military and says some of your mods are not behaving like they would IRL.

[madmole]

That doesn't go against the point he's making, though. If those cheap or free games were of good quality and engaging from the first minute, and free of game-breaking bugs or annoying interfaces then the average amount of hours that players play it would increase.

 

Exactly. The guys with 5000 hours are screaming "more content" the new players are saying one or more of the following" Bad graphics, bad framerate, stutters, too hard" etc. We're doing our best to make everyone happy but we've been told over and over again if we can just polish up what we have its a hell of a game already "if you can get past the bugs, performance, etc". That shouldn't even be a thing. So we're focusing on bringing up the quality of the game. Sure we're adding mid and late game content, but we need to focus on all the issues instead of add tons of new stuff. Tons of new stuff is getting added now though, but meanwhile we're scrutinizing everything and making it better if we can.

[madmole]

Woah.

 

I've heard that's the secret 8th seal, I wouldn't attempt that...

 

Let's just be happy the two of us have agreed on three things this week and not temp fate.

 

(Modders role, new skill point gate ideas, and that you're not suddenly going to take away 2500 hours of content to target the 30 hour players).

 

...I've been laughing at this whole thing because the thousand hour players arguing with you are the proof against their own argument.

Lol Jax will come around. Yes lol we're not removing anything except maybe the old perk books that were kind of temp filler content that only last half an hour or whatever.

[madmole]

You can increase the % of players who play more than 2 hrs but you can't get rid of SOME people not playing more than 2 hrs. Even if you literally made THE best survival game in the world, not to be topped by any game in the past, present, or future, there will STILL be people who shelve it after 2 hrs because survival games aren't their cup of tea, they bought it and forgot about it, or some other reason. I think that's the point he was trying to make.

 

I KNOW though, that if we could get people past the first couple of hours there would be more 500+ hour guys out there. I tried Ark and thought it was pretty stupid, punching dinos and waiting literally 3 hours for it to wake up because I didn't have some ungodly amount of tranquilizers. Finally I played some coop with my kid and learned there were options to make it better (faster dino tames, more xp, etc) and got hooked on it, then played with friends hosting a server with a few mods and racked up like 1350 hours I think. My brother who never played it again like I did still thinks it sucks for the same reasons I did.

 

So if you can get past some klunky things a game you kind of like the premise of (you wouldn't buy otherwise) but didn't like the implementation or game play can become a great game. So we need to remove as many addiction blockers as possible so people can discover what a great game it is.

[madmole]

Dead Island 1 and Riptide...But that was more of a skill tree/borderlands style perk system with 4 different playable characters...

 

That game was pretty damn fun , loved using Sam B and 2 handed hammer smashing everything...would play online occasionally

and always had people laughing how I would just charge in and smash stuff...Who do you voodoo bitch!

 

I probably should have included open world... I only play open world games. I bought dead island and didn't like being told what to do and never made it out of the hotel. Oblivion and GTA ruined me lol I just love freedom and sandbox ability in a game.

[JaxTeller718]

Finally Guppy and I can agree to agree! This is truely an amazing day. Now I'm just waiting for Jax to see the light in what I said.

 

Ok let's try this.

 

As a creator who would never put myself in your circle (because you are way more talented than I) I respect your opinion on what you want for the game you created. I always have. Doesn't mean I won't push a little at times for the chance to see some stuff I like too. Usually a pipe dream with other companies, with you and TFP you are very consumer centric and take a lot of time to interact with us and I respect the hell out of it.

 

I also appreciate the modding capabilities. Its my passion now, and you can say with certainty you have inspired a generation of people who never even thought about modding. Look at all the names here who never opened an XMl now doing asset work, scripting etc. That's you big man. That's YOUR Arnold inspiration that you leave behind to US.

 

Do i agree that i want this game to ever focus on casuals etc? No. But i recognize its my opinion. And I will never hate you or this game to allow that to prevent me from enjoying it. You have given us the tools to take a massively entertaining game and add and twist it to our desires. For that I will eternally be grateful. Because I plan on being here with this community and game for years to come. And Im even dabbling in to the possibility of creating a small game to challenge myself so who knows where that will go.

 

I have a feeling we are a lot alike. I am constantly talking to my team about what the future is, what we can add and how big we can get and they often have to bring me down to reality and remind me we don't have 5 years to release the next update to my mod. I believe you to be similar. You're seeking the next challenge. You crushed this one. We are both obviously passionate. And we LOVE to stir the pot

 

I may criticize but in the end its In Pimps We Trust. Even a master chef has customers who use salt or ketchup every now and then. Doesn't mean they dont enjoy the meal, just means preference in flavors are a bit different.

 

So go Gold. And I promise as my way of showing thanks I will do my damndest to continue hyping and supporting this one way after the next project is underway. It is the least I can offer back as a way of saying thank you for all the memories and experiences you have given to me.

 

 

Edit - Wanted to add that i think I understand the 20 hour thing now. Its like an appetizer. Give them a great experience in the first 20 hours, and the ones who truly love it will turn that 20 into 1000.