Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[Guppycur]

Watching people argue with each other when they are on the same side greatly amuses me.

[Odetta]

People will come together once I make my Spongebob Overhaul mod...

[Brandox471]

I don't know about some of this extra stuff. I have never played a mod in 7dtd and yet have hours into the game. I also have always played in SP as my schedule doesn't work well with others. However that being said I find this game to have this best, and I mean the best, replay-ability of any game I have ever played and I have been playing games on my pc since my first one, a Tandy 1000. Yes, that gives away a little of how long I have been around <shrug> lol.

 

My wife absolutely loves watching me play but will probably never play the game herself as she gets lost stepping onto an elevator that has 2 doors. She finds my tales that I relate regarding incidents walking into some of the POIs to be really funny. She jumped out of her seat the first time I walked into a POI after A17.2 and had zombies falling out of the ceiling at me, scared her to death.

 

Point is that this game in it's Vanilla version is actually simply amazing and I just wanted the devs to know that. Looking forward to gold only so I don't have to keep rebuilding as new versions are released but love the new releases as well. Catch 22 there I guess

[Roland]

People will come together once I make my Spongebob Overhaul mod...

 

Oooo driving boulders and eating crabby patties to restore stamina will be great. Finally, melee will be improved with Sandy Cheeks Karate moves. Blood moons predicted using the magic conch shell and truly demonic boss creatures like the hash slinging slasher to attack us.....at night.

[Gazz]

Yeh, maybe players that look up to that modders are sensitive to the "look at me!" attitude of some of that modders lately? Dunno...

Without at least some of that attitude you won't become a modder who ever releases anything.

A bit of an exhibitionist streak, bragging rights, a bit of a nerdy Umm, Actually...

 

Do some people feel more special than others? Probably. That's not a new thing.

 

 

Great! But then why call it dlc? Why not just update?

Calling content that you can download downloadable content sounds legit to me.

Many DLC are also rolled out along with updates to the base game, just to make the DLC work. Sometimes that means free stuff and fixes. Sometimes it means that loot boxes are crammed into the game's progression.

There is no point in getting hung up on words when this industry is all over the place with what the words mean.

Does 7DTD "have loot boxes"? Absolutely. It only depends on what meaning you attach to the term.

 

 

* Mod code is rarely handed off when a modder leaves a project. In some cases, yes, it is handed off. But anyone playing Wow can probably count on one or two hands the mods that have lasted the length of the game, Recount and DBMz for example. But if you look at the total count of mods for WoW, the vast majority are out of date and non-functional.

Development studios also move on and sometimes don't update their games to new technology that comes up post release.

Will this one run on Win666? Who knows?

 

 

Changing a few items to have higher stack values and posting a modlet for it does not make someone a modder. I’m sorry but there is a big difference between script kiddies and overhauls and expansions.

If you release a mod then yes, that makes you a modder.

I'm not aware of a line count or number of bytes changed that is somehow a bar for something being a mod.

If you want to propose such a system of rules and terminology I suggest you do that in the modding section.

 

 

To you yes.

To me, actually yes. And I'm largely a script kiddie.

 

To the average Joe, you and I both have magical powers that cannot be comprehended.

Basically this. LOL

[Death2gnomes]

Watching people argue with each other when they are on the same side greatly amuses me.

 

<!--

I have popcorn.

-->

 

 

 

 

Everyone has to start somewhere, being a Script Kiddie is as good of place as any. Try not to bite the hand that feeds you, you'll get farther.

[Odetta]

Oooo driving boulders and eating crabby patties to restore stamina will be great. Finally, melee will be improved with Sandy Cheeks Karate moves. Blood moons predicted using the magic conch shell and truly demonic boss creatures like the hash slinging slasher to attack us.....at night.

 

Your knowledge of Spongebob is awe inspiring and has caused your stock to go way up.

[Death2gnomes]

Oooo driving boulders and eating crabby patties to restore stamina will be great. Finally, melee will be improved with Sandy Cheeks Karate moves. Blood moons predicted using the magic conch shell and truly demonic boss creatures like the hash slinging slasher to attack us.....at night.

 

This coming from a guy that probably buys Spongebob episodes in bulk on VHS.

 

Underwater wrestling in jello ftw!

[CarbonadiuM]

Hi Madmole,

 

I was wondering if you had plans to look at some of the below issues (I think they are)for A18?

 

- Secure chests get a LCB durability bonus while storage chests do not, should be reversed

 

-Silencers not really silent, still makes noise 100 when firing, and players can hear just as far only the sound is different

 

-Sneaking in industrial areas, mainly metal stairwells cause you to jump repeatedly at times waking everything up, yet you can destroy blocks and the Z's will be none the wiser

 

-RMG needs industrial area diversity, as it is now, all too many water works and small radio station buildings. Traders spawn infrequently and bunched when they do in odd places, dirt road cabin areas.

 

-Crossbow and blunderbuss not practical to use because of auto reload, need to be able to cancel the action/switch weapon so you can swap them out after use (reload later when out of combat)

 

Thanks!

[Brandox471]

Just a quick question wondering if there is a fix to work around this or something I am doing wrong. I have had it happen a few times but my game will crash for whatever reason and when I return and try to load the game it won't let me. States that the save is a null value and shows me trying to load a game that is on A0.0

 

Annoying because the only work around I can achieve so far is to start over.

[KingSlayerGM]

As webskorpion says, it's extra content, that actually change the game, but maybe in a radical way. In the old days, we would call this an expansion pack, but now it's more known for just being something you fetch over the net. DLC just stands for DownLoadable Content and might cost money or might not. Depends on the developer..

 

Or just call it update, like Minecraft does

[Tin]

Don't agree with this. Add the content. Make the base game solid.

 

The issue I have with mods and why I always play vanilla is because of modders them self.

 

* Modders don't HAVE to support anything. Set it and forget it. It's not how all modders work. But it's entirely common.

* A vast majority of mods get created once by a player and might see a year of updates. Once they lose interest in the game, the mod typically dies. If that added features that make or break the game for me, the game... Is broke.

* Mod code is rarely handed off when a modder leaves a project. In some cases, yes, it is handed off. But anyone playing Wow can probably count on one or two hands the mods that have lasted the length of the game, Recount and DBMz for example. But if you look at the total count of mods for WoW, the vast majority are out of date and non-functional.

 

 

For a modder to want to rush to Gold, I get it. The game keeps changing. Every release makes something or many things go sideways. And it's a lot of work. That's on you though. You all chose to run with an Early Access game to build mods against. And kudos to ya! But to say stop adding content and go gold... Uh. No.

 

Solid game first. Mods... Second. That's how it should work.

 

Heh, It wasn't all that long ago, I updated a modlet I did, because I found a better way to set it up so it runs better.

And umm, I don't want TFP to rush to Gold.. so where does that put me?

It just might be that we aren't all the same..

[Trankitas]

Great! But then why call it dlc? Why not just update?

 

Downloadable Content and Update are not the same.

[angrymonkey_13]

Still way too new to this. But already I'm hooked. Spend close to 4-6 hrs a session, meaning every night ! Please don't change this great game you have tweaks and polishing aside. No PVP nonsense. Just one survivor, alone, against all his world's threats. Raiders, zombies, unscrupulous traders, I think that's great ! Really don't want to come back to my base to find it's been ransacked and destroyed because some buttmunch, or group of same didn't get enough love from their parents. Guess I've spouted enough. Let the laughter begin. Thanks .. 🤔

[sillls]

Oooo driving boulders and eating crabby patties to restore stamina will be great. Finally, melee will be improved with Sandy Cheeks Karate moves. Blood moons predicted using the magic conch shell and truly demonic boss creatures like the hash slinging slasher to attack us.....at night.

 

sounds like somebody likes it.

[Trankitas]

Or just call it update, like Minecraft does

 

Or maybe not

[canadianbluebeer]

If you make a modlet that just changes a few values, then yes, that's a mod, and you're a modder.

 

That's the FIRST step towards doing more. Change values/tables etc, see what works.

Changing/adding artwork, items, that's next.

 

At least it can be.

 

Just like playing hockey on a local team/pickup game vs being in the NHL.

Still a hockey player.

 

I can do small mods, but a full overhaul kind of thing? My hat's off to those who make those.

(and yes, I'll even tweak those to add/change things to what *I* want, for ME)

 

ymmv.

[madmole]

If you have the byte array of the image pixels for the texture, couldn't a copy of it be made on the fly with changes to RGBA values at those pixels that can change... if not random color offset, then static maps with predefined offsets could be fast.

 

Let me put it simple, there is no way for me to do it, I'm not a programmer. Now that we have streaming textures I don't see a reason for "variations" and color tinting always looks bad anyway, compared to an artist doing it right. We might as well add new zombies.

[madmole]

Maybe. But, now you're talking about doing this at runtime, which has even more issues.

 

Say, you're on a MP server. Party member A is at a POI slowly rebuilding, repainting, etc. Party member B is far away, looting.

 

Now B comes back to that POI that A is renovating. What imposter POI is he supposed to see?

 

A is still updating it constantly, possibly in dramatic ways. Is the "impostor POI generator" supposed to just continually run in the background, generating imposter POIs whenever A makes a block change? Otherwise B will see a "pop in" anyway.

 

And, that's not even considering the resources it is taking to make these impostors, which could be better spent on things like more zombies or something.

 

I'm not saying it's impossible. It just seems like a lot of work (for TFP and in terms of computer resources) for not much value.

 

I'd much rather TFP continued to work on other things like RWG, NPCs, new content, balance issues, or increased mod support. Even if you consider this a performance optimization (which is definitely a WIP), I'd rather they spent their time on quashing lag/stutter issues or shoring up memory leaks.

A modder already has this working. If its not too expensive we can use it. I think its cool to change the skyline with massive building projects, like the castles I made. I would love to see it at huge distances if possible, and changes to POIs would be less abrupt (missing buildings, new bases, bridges, etc)

[Splitknuckler]

Hi Madmole,

 

I was wondering if you had plans to look at some of the below issues (I think they are)for A18?

 

- Secure chests get a LCB durability bonus while storage chests do not, should be reversed

 

-Silencers not really silent, still makes noise 100 when firing, and players can hear just as far only the sound is different

 

-Sneaking in industrial areas, mainly metal stairwells cause you to jump repeatedly at times waking everything up, yet you can destroy blocks and the Z's will be none the wiser

 

-RMG needs industrial area diversity, as it is now, all too many water works and small radio station buildings. Traders spawn infrequently and bunched when they do in odd places, dirt road cabin areas.

 

-Crossbow and blunderbuss not practical to use because of auto reload, need to be able to cancel the action/switch weapon so you can swap them out after use (reload later when out of combat)

 

Thanks!

Agreed, all around.

[Jay_ombie]

A modder already has this working. If its not too expensive we can use it. I think its cool to change the skyline with massive building projects, like the castles I made. I would love to see it at huge distances if possible, and changes to POIs would be less abrupt (missing buildings, new bases, bridges, etc)

 

 

With this game its core feature is being able to destroy and rebuild anything anywhere, this would indeed be a major graphical plus !

 

 

(please at some point look at the water too)

[madmole]

Not going to lie. Probably the single most depressing thing I have ever read on here, especially coming from a modder who I genuinely looked up to. Out of a lot of things over the years I can not pinpoint why a statement like this stings a little. I remember a time when we all loved talking about potential ideas and wishes. Now its seemingly about numbers and rushing to release to move on. The fun is definitely missing, especially these past few months.

 

Eh it was a great ride though. Once in a lifetime experience to watch this game develop and grow. I wouldn't have changed it for the world.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

Im seriously rethinking my future with this game right now. It's a corporate line, and the worst one a developer can ever tell his customers, most of whom HAVE over 4000 hours of play and following this journey. We are nothing more than a number.

 

As true as that may be a company who grew with its fans and supporters should never tell their fans they are just a number....

 

I mean, what does that make me for spending thousands of hours modding this game so that new and old fans can enjoy a different experience? And what of the future? Am i just an idiot? For seeing thousands of hours of value? For WASTING hours of my life in a game that's intended to be no more than a 40 hour AAA title time waster?

Nothing has changed except your perception. We've always targeted the average consumer with a larger goal of making games that can become a hobby where players spend 1000's of hours.

 

Its obvious you guys are more than just a number or I wouldn't spend my free time talking with you. If you had fun playing the game or modding it, how is it a waste? One man's "waste of money" is another mans "40 hours of fun" and another mans "12,000 hours and counting, I love this game!". Your putting an unnecessary label on it. Do I hate Bethesda for making Skyrim for average consumers? No because I personally enjoyed it for a few hundred hours and with mods I got 2k hours. I don't know why you would hate on someone because he's color blind, f.e. his perception of red is different than yours.

[Cirion]

Then your on a slippery slope of adding late game crap 2% of players see. Its better to have less content that is super engaging for 20 hours than a ton of content that is meh or blocked.

 

Like I have to wonder how many players actually legit got tek gear in Ark on vanilla servers lol. What a waste of time making all those models and code for that stuff nobody ever got to use it unless they cheated.

 

Not necessarily but I can understand the concern of this happening. What you're doing with RWG is an example of something that both new players and long-term players will continue to get re-play value with. (I hope the new RWG is as good as it looks like it will be when done! And I also want caves!)

 

Now while I do think end-game content needs serious work in this game (i.e., there is no end game at all), it's not the only way to add replay to the game. And just for sake of argument if colonies did get added in, even for new players you could start working on this say, by level 100 ish. That's not a fair comparison to ARK. It takes 10-100x as long to get to Tek level in ARK as it does to reach level 100 in 7D2D. But I agree on ARK though. Then again, I never have and never will play ARK vanilla. That's only for crazy people LOL.

 

Procedural infinitely increasing difficulties / loot / progression / new game + etc are ways to add replay for people that are new-ish and veterans alike. Sure the newer players might only do one or two new game +'s, but they'll at least see the content probably. Depending on how difficult it is to "Clear" a map at least. Contrast this to your example -ARK- which as you know could take 1000 hr+ to see TEK level gear on vanilla easily.

 

I guess I am different from most kids these days. I find a game I like and invest a lot of time in it. I don't play games that only interest me for a few hrs anymore. Not usually. The attention span of most kids these days may very well be 2 hrs or less though, who knows. To my playstyle, if a game only gets me 20 hrs then I don't consider it a good game. But that's why I don't generally play games that can be cleared that fast anymore these days either. I like games with depth and lots of replay value. This is one of those games. And it could be made even better with just a little bit of work on the end-game level of the game.

 

However I am a gamer that is somewhere between casual and hardcore. So I don't think my viewpoint is the minority by any stretch of the imagination. I don't play hardcore MMO's anymore that require 1000's of hrs, neither do I play games that are boring after 10s of hrs. I'm somewhere in the middle (most games I really enjoy last me at least in the 100s of hrs like empyrion, dungeon defenders... actually Dungeon defenders I broke 1000 on, one of my favorite of all time)

[madmole]

7 Days to Die was the very first game I'd ever put more than 200 hours into. An open world RNG game about surviving the zombie apocalypse checked off ALL of the right boxes for me. Then i realized playing SP was depriving me of a different experience, so I joined a MP server. Then I realized that playing "against" other people was not much fun if there was no conflict, so I joined a couple PvP friendly servers and did alright. THEN I got invited to Red Wolf's Steel Marauders RPG server with factions, classes and a whole bunch of other cool ♥♥♥♥, and that's when I realized how accessible xml modding really was. Fast forward to today, I have over 2500 hours into the game and have learned (with much hand-holding by the modding community) how to import assets and do a lot of things to mold the game into my preferred vision.

 

That being said, I do feel like making this open world experience into a 20-40 hour game out of the box really waters down the experience and doesn't really make the game's potential shine. The most popular Skyrim mods added depth to gameplay (intentionally leaving out the dong and boob mods because everybody knows that teenage hormones rule the internet) and while it could be said that was a bonus of modding and not a malus of development, there is always the middle ground.

 

TL;DR - It's your game, if you want to rush to gold do it, but you're doing your overall fanbase a disservice by trying to make a 20-30 hour attention span experience. Dwarf Fortress has hands down the most fanatical fanbase because of it's depth and long-game ramifications. If that's too spergy for you, look at RimWorld. 20-30 hours? That's your first base.

 

There is already 1000's of hours of playability though. I'm not saying we're targeting 20-40 hours, I'm saying average players play 20 hours or less. No matter what we do their attention span is what it is. You guys here are an anomaly.

[madmole]

Madmole, the roughness of the terrain is the best thing!! Because previously everything looked so smooth and flat and soft.. but rough terrain looks amazing and is more realistic well done

 

Thats still the ugly melted ice cream version. Just wait.