Very bad Random Gen

[xyth]

Rest assured RWG will get back to it's previous glory. I own most of the gameplay systems so I've had to give that more attention. Don't worry, it'll get to a much better spot once I can get around to it. It's not a matter of ability it's a matter of time, try not to get those two things confused guys.

 

We love you man.... Looking forward to what you add next!

[Doctor3D]

In the meantime....Navezgane is pretty awesome now. With all the redesigned POIs - it's a good time to revisit it...

[Soup]

Rest assured RWG will get back to it's previous glory. I own most of the gameplay systems so I've had to give that more attention. Don't worry, it'll get to a much better spot once I can get around to it. It's not a matter of ability it's a matter of time, try not to get those two things confused guys.

 

This is probably the only good news I have read since the launch of A17e. I have a feeling addressing this will also have a (albeit minor) positive impact on some of the various other general complaints I am reading about in regards to this release.

[Redoutz]

It's a lot more moddable, and it's a hell of a lot more optimized.

 

And that's great right up to point where you pull one corn plant and the half the field collapses because it's hanging off a hillside and unsupported.

 

Or until you step into the front porch of a house and it slowly collapses into a ruin, tanking your FPS and leaving you to deal with all the occupant zombies who are now awake, miraculously unharmed and able to see you while most of all of the loot inside is trashed.

 

That may be optimized, but it's broken in terms of game play.

[pApA^LeGBa]

It´s a mystery to me how this kind of "random" can be welcome. Some people will blindly like whatever get´s released. Meh. Also random has no use at all if i have to make it random myself and i don´t have the discovery effect if i have to do that myself.

 

Takes away one challenge that doesn´t involve FPS gameplay when i know where everything is.

 

Good to see we will go back to old random. Where you wouldn´t know in advance how the map will look like.

Just hope this will happen in A17 stable already.

[JaxTeller718]

Not worth it

 

Deleted

[JaxTeller718]

It´s a mystery to me how this kind of "random" can be welcome. Some people will blindly like whatever get´s released. Meh. Also random has no use at all if i have to make it random myself and i don´t have the discovery effect if i have to do that myself.

 

Takes away one challenge that doesn´t involve FPS gameplay when i know where everything is.

 

Good to see we will go back to old random. Where you wouldn´t know in advance how the map will look like.

Just hope this will happen in A17 stable already.

 

This Random Gen may LOOK better but it's been just as dumbed down as the perks system and wellness. That is unless you go in paint and design the map, or buy Gaia.

 

Great things CAN be done on 16's mixer, and i think we and others have proven that.

[SnowDog1942]

Not going to lie here, but this whole thing is getting ridiculous. It is really starting to look like minimal effort is being put on actually making the game interesting in its vanilla form and the work is going to be 100 percent on modders to learn things and spice them up.

 

Which is wrong. I love modding and creating but in no way shape or form should it be REQUIRED to generate nice maps in a game that touts RANDOM GEN as a feature.

 

I'm going to be extremely rude for one second here because even though Im a modder I'm also a player. I don't devote my entire life to learning all this stuff only to have it negated by new stuff a year later. Sometimes I just want to sit down, hit play and watch the magic. And there is NO magic. It's the same thing with this awful perks system. They removed gun parts and action xp for the most watered won linear perks system imaginable and then say "well modders have a lot of choices now". That IS insulting to the average player and its assuming a LOT that modders are always going to be here doing the heavy lifting for little to no personal gain. It's a hobby. It's fun. But when it becomes WORK f that. No average player should ever be expected to learn modding to get something to work the way its supposed to.

 

I'm honestly shocked at myself for even thinking this, but the attitudes in this thread exhibited by some have actually made me vow to NEVER tell someone to "go mod it if you don't like it". And I never thought i would ever say that. So the new system works for you great. Glad you got in on the ground floor of this revolutionary new feature.

 

Sometimes I wonder if it was EVER a good thing that modders actually had a foot in the door of A17.

 

This about sums it up.

 

Random gen In A17 a massive step backwards? But Dont worry guys, you can learn to go paint a biome map.....lmfao

[Guppycur]

Jax, the inevitable conclusion of game development is always going to be "mod it if you don't like it".

 

At some point the devs lock in on what they want and how they want it.

 

...and we are nearing that point.

 

So I wholeheartedly disagree with your last statement... I'm glad it's so damn moddable.

 

I've seen tins generations, they're awesome.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

This about sums it up.

 

Random gen In A17 a massive step backwards? But Dont worry guys, you can learn to go paint a biome map.....lmfao

 

...in addition to the old method of changing the mixer. I'm amazed so many people are against "having more".

[JaxTeller718]

Jax, the inevitable conclusion of game development is always going to be "mod it if you don't like it".

 

At some point the devs lock in on what they want and how they want it.

 

...and we are nearing that point.

 

So I wholeheartedly disagree with your last statement... I'm glad it's so damn moddable.

 

I've seen tins generations, they're awesome.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

 

...in addition to the old method of changing the mixer. I'm amazed so many people are against "having more".

 

You dont "lock in" by slimming down. Removing biomes, taking away choices etc and then leaving it up to modders to expand on it. Am i happy they are doing it? As a modder yes, as a player no.

 

What "more" is there? That i can go in paint and create a map? Well I LIKE the element of surprise, of "randomness" even in my own mod and play through. But if i choose that I get a boring ass map. Great choices.

 

I get you love this and it works for you, and Tin is nothing but a genius and his work is absolutely stunning and I am sure his mixers will be be beautiful, but you yourself said he is on another level. You should not HAVE to be on another level to get a decent map. It's not fair to the average player, a group at one point you championed for with your levelled loot arguments etc. Now the answer to EVERYTHING is mod mod mod. How is that fair to the average player base?

[pApA^LeGBa]

This Random Gen may LOOK better but it's been just as dumbed down as the perks system and wellness. That is unless you go in paint and design the map, or buy Gaia.

 

Great things CAN be done on 16's mixer, and i think we and others have proven that.

 

I have no interest in a random map that i have to see before i can start the game. The beauty of random is not knowing what lies behind your line of sight. Right now i know where every biome is without looking at the map before starting....

 

This aspect is totally gone and this game needs other challenges than FPS ones BADLY. If that is the price for beeing able to mod rwg, i rather have it not modded but really random.

 

Also no interest in using or buying a 3rd party programm to be able to have a real random world. (The idea of having to use 3rd party programms is already disgusting but buying something to have real random is riddiculous. I have no words other than:WTF?)

 

 

 

And we will go back to real RWG as it seems. Wich makes this discussion kinda pointless. I just hope it is still happening in A17.

[Guppycur]

I get you love this and it works for you, and Tin is nothing but a genius and his work is absolutely stunning and I am sure his mixers will be be beautiful, but you yourself said he is on another level. You should not HAVE to be on another level to get a decent map. It's not fair to the average player, a group at one point you championed for with your levelled loot arguments etc. Now the answer to EVERYTHING is mod mod mod. How is that fair to the average player base?

 

I guess because I recognize this is but v1 of an entirely new method for making random worlds, and I trust in Kinyajuu, so I know it will get better?

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

And where is this "having to buy 3rd party programs" coming from?

 

You mean gaia? That's just an option... Certainly not a necessity.

.

You can technically use mspaint. =)

 

Or, just use the mixer, like always...

 

Look, you people wanted a17e, and you got a17e... Would you have rather waited until (new)Rwg 2.0?

 

...me neither.

 

You guys complain about the weirdest ♥♥♥♥ sometimes...

[Guppycur]

Dupe msg

[pApA^LeGBa]

 

You guys complain about the weirdest ♥♥♥♥ sometimes...

 

Random not beeing random is quite an issue. Way more of an issue than how other people play the game (digging zombies, not that i need a safe place nor do i like to dig for underground bases, but it´s wasted development time aimed at a certain playstyle that can be easily avoided if you don´t like it)

 

And i didn´t want anything without proper random RWG maps. Feel free to find a quote where i say "i want it now" or rush them in any way. Good luck finding one.

[Katitof]

You don't complain about bad stuff in experimental.

 

You report it if it doesn't work as it should.

 

Because its experimental, its supposed to be bug infested release.

 

If you want to actually play, wait for stable and then wait for 3 more patches to it.

[JaxTeller718]

I guess because I recognize this is but v1 of an entirely new method for making random worlds, and I trust in Kinyajuu, so I know it will get better?

 

 

Maybe its because you know him personally, but I don't so I have no clue what to expect. Was all of this detailed somewhere? And I am not talking about random convos or maybes, because I have not heard of ANY concrete plans for what is going to be done to make rwg better from what it is now.

 

If now is not the time for opinion then when is? After release? It is experimental and if people are unhappy they have a right to express it. If they are concerned they have reason to be. I trusted that the perk system and the mods system would be an adequate replacement for actual quality levels and parts and so far it can't even touch the randomness or the reward of 16's system. It is a huge step back.

 

And the best part is they all but removed ANY way for modders to bring any of it back in a meaningful way. So you ask me to trust but I have to respond with a "not this time" because all Im seeing so far is streamlining.

[Tin]

Maybe its because you know him personally, but I don't so I have no clue what to expect. Was all of this detailed somewhere? And I am not talking about random convos or maybes, because I have not heard of ANY concrete plans for what is going to be done to make rwg better from what it is now.

 

If now is not the time for opinion then when is? After release? It is experimental and if people are unhappy they have a right to express it. If they are concerned they have reason to be. I trusted that the perk system and the mods system would be an adequate replacement for actual quality levels and parts and so far it can't even touch the randomness or the reward of 16's system. It is a huge step back.

 

And the best part is they all but removed ANY way for modders to bring any of it back in a meaningful way. So you ask me to trust but I have to respond with a "not this time" because all Im seeing so far is streamlining.

 

All I can do is talk about what I see, as it relates towards the terrain gen side of things.

One thing I can point you towards is, the terrain gen in the rwgmixer. No way A16 could have handled that many modules and run decently without being a slide show from all the calculations it would be doing.

 

The terrain gen (imo), looks like it was purposely toned down, maybe for testing?!

From messing around with it, it looks like main roads are very, very, touchy atm. No roads? no nothing! No hubs, no country roads, no wilderness pois, just an empty landscape. Just by increasing areas to make the mountains bigger and the land less flat and more rough, the main roads start to disappear if it get overly rough.

 

This is just from my observations from messing with what we have to play with atm. I'm pretty excited at the implications once the roads get more consistent and less finicky.

Yeah, you're right! I'm a terrain nerd

 

I don't know what they're going to do with the biomes, but if the terrain gen with it's improvements (referring to the increased modules capabilities) are any indication, then I can only imagine what the biomes stuff will end up being.

 

Plus, having the ability to hand paint a biome map as an extra, is pretty sweet in my book. I can then tailor make a certain tone to the some worlds and not always have to do biome decoration jujitsu all the time.

 

Again, it's just my observations.

[IsotopesRFun]

Rest assured RWG will get back to it's previous glory. I own most of the gameplay systems so I've had to give that more attention. Don't worry, it'll get to a much better spot once I can get around to it. It's not a matter of ability it's a matter of time, try not to get those two things confused guys.

 

Thank you so much. I have been a LONG time 7D2D player and have enjoyed seeing the evolution of the game from the start. I am very glad to hear that RWG will be eventually fixed. It gives me hope

[Guppycur]

Maybe its because you know him personally, but I don't so I have no clue what to expect. Was all of this detailed somewhere? And I am not talking about random convos or maybes, because I have not heard of ANY concrete plans for what is going to be done to make rwg better from what it is now.

 

If now is not the time for opinion then when is? After release? It is experimental and if people are unhappy they have a right to express it. If they are concerned they have reason to be. I trusted that the perk system and the mods system would be an adequate replacement for actual quality levels and parts and so far it can't even touch the randomness or the reward of 16's system. It is a huge step back.

 

And the best part is they all but removed ANY way for modders to bring any of it back in a meaningful way. So you ask me to trust but I have to respond with a "not this time" because all Im seeing so far is streamlining.

 

He's one of two pimps I trust implicitly, and not from any sort of familiarity, but because of the work he has done. And, he's already responded on this thread, validating my trust.

 

I've zero problem with people expressing their unhappiness, but 1, I like the biome layout, and 2, I know it's all still editable via the mixer.

 

I've seen tin and aphado have many conversations together and separate on the subject, and although my personal knowlwdge of the mixer is limited, I trust tins word too.

 

And given that this really IS a first version of this new Rwg, /and/ it allows a dm like me to hand tailor a map for MY needs, I'm using MY right to post my support, and I trust believe it will only get better.

 

...because, why wouldn't it.

[Jugginator]

Yeah, I trust him to do a good job. I mean, the one RWG world that I did turned out well as far as biomes and everything. It's a first iteration, nothing's perfect everytime.

[Pizzalicious]

have generated 2 4x4 and 1 8x8. All 3 maps do not even go out that far before you hit the radiation (it hits at like 200 blocks before it) and then the world just drops off like some flat earther conspiracy. Mountains are hills, rivers that cut through the mountains no longer exist (one the best features in a16). Bedrock number was changed into the 40s so we can no longer down deep. Some players like to live like moles, (GG everyone who complained and whined about them). Snow in the north and desert in the south with burnt forest all over the map, hardly any wasteland. What are the TFP trying to do.. smh

[Sellsents]

By all means. We waited patiently a whole year for the update. And this is everything TFP came up with? And now we where ask to wait even longer to get a half decent solution for this total mess that you call proud an rwg? I have a really hard time to believe in TFP right now.

 

I don´t know if TFP understands in the slightest what the modders have done for them all this years. They provided the community with what they needed to be able to play the game through all the month of waiting and hoping. They are the ones that came up with many solutions for problems TFP didn´t want to solve and a ton of new ideas to improve the game. To make it fun to play, to make it worth the wait for the next update. And they are the ones that got slapped right in the face. They are the pillar of this community and I urge TFP not to forget that.

[DaVegaNL]

I personally would be happy if the current terrain/road/city generation is combined with random biomes from A16. That would be the best of both worlds.

[crazywildfire]

By all means. We waited patiently a whole year for the update. And this is everything TFP came up with? And now we where ask to wait even longer to get a half decent solution for this total mess that you call proud an rwg? I have a really hard time to believe in TFP right now.

 

I don´t know if TFP understands in the slightest what the modders have done for them all this years. They provided the community with what they needed to be able to play the game through all the month of waiting and hoping. They are the ones that came up with many solutions for problems TFP didn´t want to solve and a ton of new ideas to improve the game. To make it fun to play, to make it worth the wait for the next update. And they are the ones that got slapped right in the face. They are the pillar of this community and I urge TFP not to forget that.

 

Dang dude calm down a little?

 

Who said they have forgotten modders? I haven't seen one post from them that is a slap in the face. I and many others find the vanilla fun but like any other game it is going to get old after awhile and yes thanks to modders we can get a new experience everytime. If they didn't Support modders they wouldn't have the game so mod friendly. So I'm not sure what has you thinking they have forgotten or are slapping them in the face.

 

As far as RWG goes it comes second. Navezgane has been and will always be what they build on towards. It is where they are building the game from and putting a story into it. It is experimental so things in rwg not working right is no surprise. It isn't the first time and most likely will not be the last time. But now that the experimental build is out to the public they can focus more on get RWG where they would mostly like it. Just sayin the time they have spent most of it has been towards navezgane and getting the new features implanted on it. Be lucky we even have a rwg because technically they don't have to have it available.

[Kubikus]

Rest assured RWG will get back to it's previous glory. I own most of the gameplay systems so I've had to give that more attention. Don't worry, it'll get to a much better spot once I can get around to it. It's not a matter of ability it's a matter of time, try not to get those two things confused guys.

And that includes the biomes that seem to have been removed..? In A16 I could use this:

 

	<biome_spawn_rules>
	<biome_spawn_rule name="city_wasteland">
		<distance_from_center range="0,500"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="wasteland_hub">
		<distance_from_center range="500,2500"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="city">
		<distance_from_center range="2500,3500"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="burnt_forest">
		<distance_from_center range="3500,4500"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="desert">
		<distance_from_center range="4500,5500"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="plains">
		<distance_from_center range="5500,6500"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="pine_forest">
		<distance_from_center range="6500,7500"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="snow">
		<distance_from_center range="7500,8500"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="forest">
		<distance_from_center range="8500,9500"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="wasteland">
		<distance_from_center range="9500,10500"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="water">
		<distance_from_center range="10500,12500"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

	<biome_spawn_rule name="radiated">
		<distance_from_center range="12500,20000"/>
	</biome_spawn_rule>

</biome_spawn_rules>

That's actually 12 if you include the radiated, that you could also design. If the additional 7 biomes are gone, I'd like to reiterate my corresponding question: Why? Never ever have I seen anybody complain about too many biomes. I saw a few modders wishing for more. Unlimited would be nice, obviously.