Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[DaVegaNL]

This is one video... and many people have been asking for a video. This is NOT a view of a complete A17 ready to play as was obvious from the video. I'm going to give you 1 out of 10 for attitude and general comprehension of the world around you.

 

Yeah it's not a complete A17, I know that. Did I say that anywhere?

Will I get a higher grade if I only see the positives, and disregard the negatives?

[artisticspider]

Just had a chance to check out the new video. I am really loving a lot of the new features! I'm sure it was quite obvious to anyone watching that there are still bugs in many aspects, but I can imagine where the end product is supposed to be and I like it.

 

I know that balancing was stated as needing done, but I must at least throw in my thoughts on it. The new sprinting is actually really short unless every character you play is supposed to be really unhealthy. That wasn't a very far run at all. What would probably work even better is say sprint very fast while stamina is above 50%, but as it hits 50% and lower, slow it down to a good paced jog while using less stamina.

 

Another possibility: I'm not sure if it could be done, but maybe double tap shift for full sprint (using any and all stamina from 100% down to 0% but make it drain quickly - though not as quite as quickly as it currently is) and the normal shift would be the quicker jog I mentioned above. Not quite as fast moving, but able to continuously move quickly over a longer distance.

 

One other: Do it like the old Far Cry 2 style (not sure if the others did it too. Didn't play them) where your character sucks at running at first, but the more you do it, the less stamina it uses until it reaches a maximum cap, allowing you to sprint much longer distances after many hours of gameplay.

 

The new ragdoll physics are definitely going in the right direction, but do need some work. I know you guys are working on it and I can read between the lines on what the goal is here and I'm real excited for that!

 

I have to agree with the others who mentioned that not every location should be a dungeon. I LOVE this dungeon style idea, truly, but sometimes ... houses just don't have people in them. Sometimes houses are clean and easy to just go in and out of and shouldn't have every door locked and/or boarded up. I can't imagine everyone just happened to be home when the zombie apocalypse happened. And why does every house have an entire family reunion's worth of zombies in them? Most households wouldn't have more than 1 to 4 people in there, and even so, what are the chances all of them are home? I actually miss having more zombies walking around outside of the towns. It seems a lot of the zombie spawns are eaten up by sleepers when you go into towns. I don't mind the idea of some sleepers here and there, but it seems almost every zombie in buildings is a sleeper and there are so many of them that the rest of the town is completely dead. Literally and figuratively.

 

I still can not wrap my head around why a bullet in a low quality pistol does significantly less damage than the same bullet in a better quality pistol. Same with personal experience/perks. If a toddler grabs a gun and shoots a pig in the face, it doesn't do less damage because the toddler doesn't have weapon experience. It pierces the skin and bone just the same as the bullet shot from the same gun by the toddler's father who may be a Navy Seal. The only thing that would be affected here is accuracy, reload speed, and maybe how fast you're able to shoot it since someone inexperienced wouldn't know how to handle recoil as well and take longer to zero in on their target.

 

I made a -very- generalized chart showing how I believe things could work more realistically (Percentages would probably need changed a bit), and the game would need to implement gun jamming:

 

(This forum murdered my picture quality so badly that you couldn't read it. So here's a link: https://imgur.com/bZiLNPW)

 

I -really- hope you guys one day consider these types of things related to weapons. Please please and more please, because I'm pretty sure this is the only game I've ever played where I can shoot animals point-blank in the face with the first shotgun I find and they literally have enough energy to just run off like nothing happened. I'm absolutely certain most of the face/head wouldn't be there, with or without a perk, shooting the shotgun 500 times to magically do more damage, or using a great quality new gun from the store. haha

 

Other than that the game is solid behind the current bugs that will be fixed. I can't wait to see where it ends up over the next few months! Even years. I don't mind waiting. I'll be playing either way!

[Maharin]

Yeah it's not a complete A17, I know that. Did I say that anywhere?

Will I get a higher grade if I only see the positives, and disregard the negatives?

 

Sorry, on second read of your post it wasn't nearly as negative as I first viewed it. I can only blame it on lack of caffeine and general irritation at the world.

 

Or maybe my attitude is a 1 out 10 this morning?

[Odetta]

Is it, or will it be possible to create our own custom biomes? With all the different weather and effects?

[The Gronk]

Is it, or will it be possible to create our own custom biomes? With all the different weather and effects?

 

As far as I know it's already possible, not sure about custom weather effects though.

[DaVegaNL]

Sorry, on second read of your post it wasn't nearly as negative as I first viewed it. I can only blame it on lack of caffeine and general irritation at the world.

 

Or maybe my attitude is a 1 out 10 this morning?

 

Haha no worries man! Sometimes I sound like a grumpy old man... Well. Most of the time. Kinda makes me wonder how I will be in 30-40 years ^^

[kamer1337]

so how is the wellness system removed? 100 max?

[SylenThunder]

...

Ps. Roland, you haven't mentioned the removal of the biomes in the first/second post?

Well, it was kind of alluded to a while ago, but the second posts lists Plains Biome as a removed feature.

 

I'm a little sad because I always liked that biome for first starting out, and then would move to the maple forest later.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Who has ever starved to death in this game? You have to mod it to avoid having stacks of clean water to keep you hydrated from all the canned goods you get from zombies and cupboards.

I do it all the time. Mute the game while watching TV, spend hours doing some task without really watching the game (usually mining), then turn back and realise I'm dead. It's usually early game, because after you get the food/water/stamina buffs you hardly eat or drink anymore.

[DaVegaNL]

Well, it was kind of alluded to a while ago, but the second posts lists Plains Biome as a removed feature.

 

I'm a little sad because I always liked that biome for first starting out, and then would move to the maple forest later.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

 

I do it all the time. Mute the game while watching TV, spend hours doing some task without really watching the game (usually mining), then turn back and realise I'm dead. It's usually early game, because after you get the food/water/stamina buffs you hardly eat or drink anymore.

 

Ah yeah now I see. Sorry for that! But it only lists the plains biome, whilst MM also stated that the maple forest biome will be removed.

[Prisma501]

You and I both, mate.

This talk about representing them as a 'sub-biome' is by far nothing like the original biomes.

 

 

When given the choice of getting a smoother running game and lose some biome(s) to make that happen, i will defo choose the smoother running game. Nothing wrong with "only" 5 biomes IMO.

 

Anyhow the new terrain shader can only handle so many textures so something had to give and this will help the game run better.

 

Cheers

[Darkwingknight]

Personally I dont see any issues with sub biomes. A plains isnt hugely diffrent than a desert and frankly they do lead to each other in the real world. Also, the maple forest/pine forest combo works too. I grow up in Arizona and most of that isnt horribly far off from a compacted prospective.

[Gamida]

Lol. I guess if I don't like the food in a particular restaurant, I should set up my own restaurant?

 

Just a quick question...Why would you eat at a restaurant hundreds of times if you don't like the food?

[Roland]

 

2. You said something about new AI/pathing. But I don't see any changes as compared with A16. At 1:23 (and at 1:34, and at 2:53) I see the spawned zombie not walking towards you. Is this intended? It just looks.. Very poor. Even compared with A16.

 

3. The ragdoll-effect-upon-stunning looks.. Fake. It just plops over and even moves on the ground (at 1:48 and at 2:42, and at 12:50, and at 13:23, and at 13:45, and at 15:44, and at 19:06, and at 19:22, and at 19:49, and at 21:24). Is this intended? How about him jumping into the air at 2:16? Or at 11:20? or at 11:29? Or at 17:02? Or at 17:33? How about him doing some sort of Jesus-move at 13:49? Or the guys getting stuck at 14:40, and his weird-looking leg? The stun animation seriously needs to be redone..

 

All in all I'm afraid I can't rate the video more than a 5 or 6 out of 10 man.

 

I guess you missed the disclaimer at 0:50 in regards to pathing and AI. It is the only explanation I can fathom for why you would pick out all those examples and ask whether it was intended.

 

Madmole: This still needs tons of work.

DeVega: You’re wrong!!! It still needs tons of work!!!!

 

This is why the devs polish things up as much as they can before letting the community test because there are too many Sherlocks out there that would clog the threads giving feedback on obvious stuff the devs already know.

 

I think the rest of your negative opinions were fine and I have no problem with critical feedback. But this part of your feedback was mind boggling to me...

 

My feedback about the stun Ragdoll is that if they got rid of the hp bar it would now be even harder to tell whether they were finally killed or not since Ragdoll it is one of the signs we look for. My feedback is to lose the hp bars and that will make the stun Ragdoll perfect once they polish it up.

[DaVegaNL]

I guess you missed the disclaimer at 0:50 in regards to pathing and AI. It is the only explanation I can fathom for why you would pick out all those examples and ask whether it was intended.

 

Madmole: This still needs tons of work.

DeVega: You’re wrong!!! It still needs tons of work!!!!

 

This is why the devs polish things up as much as they can before letting the community test because there are too many Sherlocks out there that would clog the threads giving feedback on obvious stuff the devs already know.

 

I think the rest of your negative opinions were fine and I have no problem with critical feedback. But this part of your feedback was mind boggling to me...

 

My feedback about the stun Ragdoll is that if they got rid of the hp bar it would now be even harder to tell whether they were finally killed or not since Ragdoll it is one of the signs we look for. My feedback is to lose the hp bars and that will make the stun Ragdoll perfect once they polish it up.

 

Yes I definitely heard him saying pathing/AI still needs lots of work. I know. That's why I said I don't see any improvements/changes to what I currently see in A16, hence I'm wondering what the changes are. If there are no changes, why bring it up at all?

 

I didn't hear him saying the ragdoll effect still needs (lots of) work? Hence my analysis. It might help the dev's see and pinpoint problems with individual zombies, since I tried to cover anything I saw.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Just a quick question...Why would you eat at a restaurant hundreds of times if you don't like the food?

 

Maybe my nephew runs the place, and I get a discount..?

[Phoenixshade35]

I gotta say i watched the video and im looking forward to the new challenge of the decreased/damaged stamina and health, it will give a challenge that some of us needed, The POIs are looking amazing and I cannot wait to play around with those and the silencer is looking good and sounding good, awesome progress. On another note, will we get to see the new skill system for leveling up? or will that be saved as a secret for us to discover once A17 is out? It looks like I will be having some planning to do, im stoked.

[cnconrad]

By what I'm gathering with what MM is saying those biomes aren't really going away. They'll just be smaller and set inside other biomes. The desert will have sections of grass like the plains and the pine forest will have elements of the maple forest. I wouldn't be surprised if the burnt 'biome' just becomes an extension of the forested areas with pockets that burned out, like what actually happens IRL.

That not what I heard from reading that. If it is true that there will be planes in the desert and forests in the burnt biome it won't be so bad.

[DiesFourth]

I trust the devs 100%, let me make that clear.

 

However, HP bars on enemies saddens me greatly. On the steam forums Brian told me it might be implemented so players can see if they are doing enough/any damage to advanced foes. Is that the thinking behind the possible inclusion of HP enemy bars ?

 

If so....

 

Imo its better to wail on them until you finally realize " this guy isnt even slowing down " and run away to fight another day. all the while re-examing your stradegy or looking for help from other players or the in game mini wiki on how to best deal with a particuar bad guy.

 

I like having to figure out things or asking others for help.

 

Think of all the traps in game and how fun it is to test differet ones against a troublesome foe........ isnt that the feeling their going for ? For ppl to figure stuff out by trying different in game options....

 

Imo its a HUGE mistake and completely destroys any " oh♥♥♥♥♥♥" feelings of seeing a dire wolf or a cop or anything else designed to strike fear into the players.

 

If im way off base on anything please poliely correct me.

[Sakurambo]

Currently we have 7 biomes

 

Planes - medium

Forest - easy

Pine Forest - easy

Desert - hard

Snow - hard

Wasteland - very hard

Burnt - very hard

Desert is pretty, but no trees no clay and very few animals along being hot all the time no planting food or finding clay.

 

desert biome is atm the easiest biome where to start

clay is very easy to find, look for the dark patches of land

tons of yucca that provide food and fresh drink to fight the high temperature, aloe for bandages

is also the biome in which is easisest spot nest rabbit and chicken

[sillls]

Biomes and sub biomes and how they could all work together

 

 

I was thinking about Madmole wanting to change the biomes around. Taking away the plains biome and merging the two forest ones.

TFP's could still make some open areas like the plains, some that look like the desert and some that have a mix of trees all in one biome.

 

This could be done in (most) biomes without to much of a problem as long as it isn't a sudden change.

For instance, if they wanted to make an open area in the middle of a forest, all they have to do is thin out the trees till they got an open area.

Ground materiel changes as well depending on the environment. The desert biome could be a mix of sand dirt and clay.

 

Also the temp and weather should overlap the biomes. That way there isn't a sudden but rather a gradual change.

So for example:

If you were walking from a colder biome to a warmer biome. Then the temp would slowly go up.

Also if you have clear weather it could again gradually change to stormy as you travel without going over to another biome.

 

Currently right now it's like walking into a freezer out from a hot summer day.

But if we change it. The conditions will seem more natural and blend in.

[archergod]

Hey Team, I love the new video, I can see some bugs in video as you are working on and progress is clearly shown. Love to see when it is ready for me .

[sillls]

desert biome is atm the easiest biome where to start

clay is very easy to find, look for the dark patches of land

tons of yucca that provide food and fresh drink to fight the high temperature, aloe for bandages

is also the biome in which is easisest spot nest rabbit and chicken

 

Don't forget about scrapping some leather from furniture to make a leather poncho and making a cowboy hot out of grass to keep you cool. Otherwise you will cook on the second day.

 

Finding cool cloths also helps.

 

Sand can make glass jars if you have a forge.

[Tok]

The bullet sponge enemies have me a little worried I have to admit. I liked the progression of using the bow until I found a pistol and then saving the pistol for times I needed to get out of trouble fast. Now it seems like the pistol is a downgrade from the bow. I'm hoping the balancing etc will sort that out. I think any firearm should be two shots to the head maximum.

 

It was always a joy to find a pistol in a toilet early on and have to make those 15 shots count as you can't make ammo for a while. It's going to be disappointing if you need to use all those 15 shots on one zombie.

[SnowDog1942]

Bullet Sponges are fine, health bars are fine. What's not fine is having to eat a Yucca fruit every minute or 2 to keep your maximum stamina up. If you are 90 percent full or only 10 percent hungry (depending on how you look at it), the bar should remain at its maximum. Maybe even 80 / 20.

[Qyzer]

Loved the vid, overall things are looking great.

 

Not sold on the new food/water/stamina/health system, but willing to keep an open mind about it. Not a fan of the previous one either, so really open to new ideas here. At least now we know why we don't need food/water on the main screen (which seems to be in most UI mods).

 

Looking forward to future vids showing off the new AI when it's more polished and seeing the results of the promised balance pass on weapons/Zs.

 

REALLY happy to see an increase in move speed, I ended up modding coffee in some of my games to provide a speed buff for something between mini-bikes and running.

 

Silencer looks great and looking forward to the new mod system. I'm very curious how the new quality system works. Do weapons still lose quality over time, or only some weapons? I can see a club getting broken but outside of full-auto for long periods, it takes a lot longer than a few days of use to put a hurt on most firearms of even minimal quality (though this is a gameplay vs realism/immersion type thing where no one seems to agree on where to draw the lines).

 

I'm really hoping we will see more Z diversity at some point, maybe it's an early access player problem, but I'd love to see LOTs more variation between Zs, even of the same class and/or type (i.e. would like to see multiple "lumberjacks" rather that the same old one again and again). I understand UMA was hoped to be a solution to this, but something like that would be REALLY nice to see eventually.

 

Hoping we can ignore the "follow the lights" thing with a big axe or pick on the POIs and they aren't gated by 10K+ health blocks. I have more fun circumventing designs than following them, but maybe that's just me (and the wife, who enjoys it as well).

 

New trader looks good, though I'm not a fan of the traders or NPCs in general (I prefer the "last people on earth" style of play where only the players are left) but I'll try and keep an open mind here too. My wife does like the traders and NPCs so even in my own home there is disagreement on this.

 

Thanks for the peek into the development process and thanks for letting us play along.

[Aldranon]

I heard gun mods and gun skills are what turns your character from a zero to a hero.