Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[TSBX]

Thanks for the video. As always, I have my list of feedback.

 

1. Silencer looks nice. Is the stealth system already properly implemented? Else the silencer might just be eye-candy. [Assumption that they will ♥♥♥♥ up stealth]

 

2. You said something about new AI/pathing. But I don't see any changes as compared with A16. At 1:23 (and at 1:34, and at 2:53) I see the spawned zombie not walking towards you. Is this intended? It just looks.. Very poor. Even compared with A16. [Assumption that they will ♥♥♥♥ up AI and pathing even though a dev that is working on said features has been very interactive with progress on said AI/pathing]

 

3. The ragdoll-effect-upon-stunning looks.. Fake. It just plops over and even moves on the ground (at 1:48 and at 2:42, and at 12:50, and at 13:23, and at 13:45, and at 15:44, and at 19:06, and at 19:22, and at 19:49, and at 21:24). Is this intended? How about him jumping into the air at 2:16? Or at 11:20? or at 11:29? Or at 17:02? Or at 17:33? How about him doing some sort of Jesus-move at 13:49? Or the guys getting stuck at 14:40, and his weird-looking leg? The stun animation seriously needs to be redone. [Assumption that end product will be exactly like it is now - ♥♥♥♥ed up.]

 

4. Adjusted walking speed. Meh. That was not one of the major issues in the game, was it? [Assumption that they ♥♥♥♥ed up their priorities, when it's very likely it's a 10 second XML edit to movement speed.]

 

5. I kinda see where you wanted to go with the blacked out portion of the health/stamina bars, but in stead of sleeping recharging it (like in many other survival games), you went with eating/drinking? Meh. [Assumption that they ♥♥♥♥ed up a feature you've never had any hands-on time with]

 

6. Over 70 new dungeons for this build? I sincerely hope not all houses are converted into these dungeons..? [Assumption that the devs ♥♥♥♥ed up POI balance]

 

7. New model of Trader Joel looks nice. [Exception to the rule]

 

8. Why is it that you can hit a tree with a jeep with full speed, and not damage the jeep? The trees falls down. [Another assumption that a look at a work-in-progress feature is final and they ♥♥♥♥ed up]

 

9. Oh, now A17 is getting close to Beta? Make. Up. Your. Mind. [Pedantics]

 

10. Got rid of the Plains biome? Why. Why. Why? Yeah that's what this game needs. Less diversity. [Fair point at face value, but we don't know what Kin has cooked up for RWG now that he isn't (primarily, as far as I know) solely dedicated to AI]

 

11. Got rid of the Maple forest biome? Oh jeez... So there's only 5 biomes left in the world? Lol. Monotomy ahead. [see above]

 

12. Perishton looks nice, I have to admit. Please tell me that not all buildings are dungeons. Please. [Now you're repeating yourself (again)]

 

13. The AI is gonna blow us away when it is in, you guys. Trust me. Believe me. Guys. [Abrasive dismissal of faatal even though he has been interactive with the community (One of your earlier soapbox rants) on progress in that regard]

 

14. Dead-drop quests sound nice. [Key word being "sound", meaning you'll reserve positive judgement until you see it first hand, a concept you should apply to your negative assumptions.]

 

15. The health kit seems bugged. [Another assumption that what we see is what we will get]

 

16. #completelynewgame [To quote you: "Meh."]

 

17. You said you have new terrain tools. Will we get them? [TFP have made great strides to expose a LOT of the game to XML for the purpose of being able to mod it. There is an option in your very own version of A16 with a WORLD EDITOR button. You're assuming worst case yet again.]

 

 

All in all I'm afraid I can't rate the video more than a 5 or 6 out of 10 man. [Lastly, you assume anyone cares about your "rating", especially the devs.]

 

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of things that I disagree with about the game, some of the "streamlining" and MMO inspired features at the fore, but for the most part, this game has been a home-run in immersion, survival, and my favorite post-apoc scenario, and I have over 2400 hours for a game I paid $25 USD for. Overall they've done a good job and while constructive criticism is massively important for feedback, being an Eeyore all the time does nothing to help, when every "constructive criticism" is just assuming that they ♥♥♥♥ed up unfinished features based on a sneak preview of work in progress.

[Xeen]

Early birthday present maybe?

 

 

I wouldn't put it past Roland.

[XCOUNTRY]

@Roland/TFP

 

How will the shift toggles sprint button work now that the base movement mechanic has changed to allow only short bursts of speed and fast stamina drain. I feel this may become a feature that doesn't have much practical application now. Again, just something I noticed. In your playing with the new sprint does this become an issue?

[Royal Deluxe]

No Panic, the speed stamina is drained will be easy to edit. (Nearly sure about that)

(Even if Hardcoded it should be easy to balance by TFP)

 

So not worth to discuss it (because of fear) before we can test/experience it

[Alphado-Jaki]

It'll stupidly easy to edit the base movement speed, it'll be in entityclasses.xml. You'll also be able to control the amount of stamina drain/recharge for various (stance+moveType) combos and all other "base values" that pertain to a player in there.

 

Nice. Anxiety is gone

[Scyris]

I am really bored IRL, A17 experemental needs to drop already so I can have something to do for a while. I'd even play it if its half or more broken I don't care.

 

That said, is the Jeep being made to move faster? I've seen it in a few videos but it feels like it moves pretty slow to me. If anything it should be faster than the minibike is.

[Scyris]

It'll stupidly easy to edit the base movement speed, it'll be in entityclasses.xml. You'll also be able to control the amount of stamina drain/recharge for various (stance+moveType) combos and all other "base values" that pertain to a player in there.

 

Ahh this is good, in A16.4 iirc its inside the asset files and is a real pain in the butt to edit right now, I tried to do it before and could never get it to work, so thanks TFP for moving it into the xml's where it'll be much easier to edit and play around with. Honestly I am fine with the stamina how it was in that video, it was of a lv 1 char with no skills at all, so of course its going to drain fast. I also love the new base walk speed being almost as fast as the sprint in A16.4, Maybe you could make it as fast? Even that sprint in A16.4 felt slow to me lol.

 

The more stuff you guys at TFP can allow us easy access to for modding purposes the better.

 

Is there anyway we can have a over ride folder? so we could put custom textures etc in there kinda like how fallout/elder scrolls work? Where it'll use the loose player added textures over the ingame ones? Or the models from in there over in game etc? Modders would have a field day if it was easy to mod textures, models, add weapons etc, would also bring alot more life into the game as well since even now the modding community is pretty big for it not really having "offical" support/system for modding in yet.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

@Roland/TFP

 

How will the shift toggles sprint button work now that the base movement mechanic has changed to allow only short bursts of speed and fast stamina drain. I feel this may become a feature that doesn't have much practical application now. Again, just something I noticed. In your playing with the new sprint does this become an issue?

 

I am guessing they want sprint to be more of a "Oh Crap!" button than something you always use, thats why they made the base movement speed almost as fast as sprinting in A16.4 is. Remember the char this was shown on was level 1, with no skills yet, so the drain is probally not so bad once you got some levels and skills under your characters belt.

[faatal]

That said, is the Jeep being made to move faster? I've seen it in a few videos but it feels like it moves pretty slow to me. If anything it should be faster than the minibike is.

 

It is faster than the minibike, by a safe amount. Before release all the vehicle speeds will need to be finalized. What you see in demo videos, is often not the final values for much of anything. Once all the systems are working well together is when values will get dialed in.

[Prisma501]

There is an "ignore list" feature if you look at a user's profile.

 

Oh! Thank you!

 

2 users i will never have to read from again. Great tip!

 

Cheers

[Royal Deluxe]

Oh! Thank you!

 

2 users i will never have to read from again. Great tip!

 

Cheers

 

You cant ignore Moderators/Admins

[DaVegaNL]

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of things that I disagree with about the game, some of the "streamlining" and MMO inspired features at the fore, but for the most part, this game has been a home-run in immersion, survival, and my favorite post-apoc scenario, and I have over 2400 hours for a game I paid $25 USD for. Overall they've done a good job and while constructive criticism is massively important for feedback, being an Eeyore all the time does nothing to help, when every "constructive criticism" is just assuming that they ♥♥♥♥ed up unfinished features based on a sneak preview of work in progress.

 

Thanks for the comments mate. I agree with you, the game is one of the best investment-per-hour-of-enjoyment I own. But when I read through your comments on my comments, I see you are assuming a lot. That I assume the end-product will be ♥♥♥♥. That I assume they will ♥♥♥♥ up. No. That's a wrong assumption from your side (point 1, 4, 5, 6, 8, etc.). I do not make such assumptions. I'm just wondering why those things are the way they are. Yeah, yeah. Alpha. I know. Hopefully they get fixed.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

I get mixed feelings here because in the reputation comments you wrote: "Personal attacks are a no-no."

So let me clarify something. Please don't take it personally that i don't want to read what you are saying. I know that i can just skip it all, but a filter would be helpful.

 

So, i went back and read your feedback because i skipped it the first time.

 

 

 

 

 

And i must say, i'm every bit as disappointed as i expected to be. Then i read Roland's "When Madmole Makes Chocolate Chip Cookies For Lunch..." and it's so on point, it makes me sad.

I just don't get it. You know that the game is taken to pieces and lots of it is not working and you make smirky comments about obvious things.

 

Like AI and ragdoll are obviously not working properly and you ask if it's intended? WTF???

Or like silencers are pointless if the stealth does not work... You really think that TFP can't understand that?

Every comment seems like you presume it's a finished feature: walking speed, jeep damage, health kit - still work in progress.

 

At least you overall attitude is pretty clear with the "meh"-s and "I'm afraid I can't rate the video more than a 5 or 6 out of 10 man".

 

- i literally want to ask you, do you think they are stupid? Why comment on something like that?

 

 

Sarcasm??

Based on previous performance i trust TFP to make AI better for a17.

And based on your posts i believe there is no reason i would want to read them in the future. Nothing personal, i just feel i don't get my time's worth.

 

Sure, if you don't want to read what I write, you don't have to..

[Survager]

Sorry. My oversight. I’ll update it when I’m not on mobile. The crouched creeping walk is the same. The regular movement is faster than it used to be and the run is faster but depletes stamina faster as well. It’s a change for sure so I’ll list it in the changes.

 

Joel said about run is default, walking and sprint work with special key, or not? If it not, may be it possible to do? Slow walking may be need us on some time.

[Gobarg]

A quick question with regards to the new biomes setup.

 

Will the mining resources change as far as biome specific types change? Ie will we still need to find the sub biome to get the resource that we find in the plains now or will the whole distribution change from what we have now?

[toores]

There is an "ignore list" feature if you look at a user's profile.

 

Oh wow, i never thought to follow up on that idea. I tried it and it works!!

[Demonoid74]

*quickly adds everyone to the ignore list so I only see posts from Fun Pimps staff!*

[Survager]

Oh wow, i never thought to follow up on that idea. I tried it and it works!!

 

 

:smile-new:

[toores]

*quickly adds everyone to the ignore list so I only see posts from Fun Pimps staff!*

 

At one point i thought it would be neat feature to have this the other way around. Instead of ban, you would temporarily select bunch of users (with orange and green names ) and see all their post in a certain thread in a chronological order.

It'd make it easy to skim through important stuff.

[Guest Rassilon]

A quick question with regards to the new biomes setup.

 

Will the mining resources change as far as biome specific types change? Ie will we still need to find the sub biome to get the resource that we find in the plains now or will the whole distribution change from what we have now?

 

And regarding to that, what is the state of the Perlin-Worm Cave System that was talked about in the early A16 Preview Videos?

 

Is this completly scrapped or still planned/comming for A17 ?

[Crater Creator]

[Madmole's raw cookies with commentary]

 

This is perfect except, dont'cha know people who post pictures of their lunch on the internet deserve what they get?

 

+1

 

It would make sense if burnt forest would be sub biome of forest and wasteland would be sub biome of rural area that got bombed.

 

The wasteland was originally an urban area, I would say, since the ground is completely saturated with building rubble.

 

A quick question with regards to the new biomes setup.

 

Will the mining resources change as far as biome specific types change? Ie will we still need to find the sub biome to get the resource that we find in the plains now or will the whole distribution change from what we have now?

 

It will have to change, unless A17 also overhauls subbiomes. I would use it as an opportunity to rethink biome distribution altogether. I liked someone (Roland's?) idea to use the plains art as a transitional border between desert and the other grassy/dirty/forested biomes.

[toores]

70 new dungeon POIs seem like a great fun. And i am not so worried about having too much of them as some might be. But i think the "one clear path through a POI" has its disadvantages. Easy access with low quality tools makes them OP for early loot. It would be good to have hard to access rooms - steel door - that i'd have to return to once i have better tools.

 

Will there be regular POIs with high level of detail in a17? Possibly without a low resistance path and with some sections totally blocked off. And possibly with randomized hidden loot locations.

 

I think it's great fun to clear out the whole house and maybe weeks later discover that this house actually had a hidden room that you never saw. A hidden cellar door behind the fridge, a hidden hatch/ladder under a sofa, a hidden attic that had no ladders going there, etc.

This would add so much to the exploration. You might discover cool "high level of detail" locations long after being through most of the content.

 

EDIT:

I just watched the video again and MM actually said "...70 new dungeons and POIs" So the "70" might not all be dungeons.

[Shado47]

And regarding to that, what is the state of the Perlin-Worm Cave System that was talked about in the early A16 Preview Videos?

 

Is this completly scrapped or still planned/comming for A17 ?

 

I second this. The caves we used to have where it opens into that huge room that sometimes was flooded with water, that was brilliant, nowadays we just have tunnels that have a dead end somewhere and there are not even rotten corpses inside there anymore. Would be nice to have sleeper zombies, a bit of loot, and these gorgeous rooms inside them again.

 

[DeadMole]

Check out the new Perishton and silencer weapon mod!

 

 

It looks great, you get a better sense of place with more variety in towns and I really like the dungeon concept for houses. It's going to make looting houses a lot less repeatitive. I like the weapon mods as well and I think crafting guns instead of putting them together with parts will be more interesting also.

 

Maple forest is just forest... plains is just basically desert nobody is losing anything really other than these can be sub biomes now.

 

I used to get confused between the 2 different forest biomes and the desert and plains when I started playing the game because they're so similar, so I'm glad they're going away.

[The Gronk]

And regarding to that, what is the state of the Perlin-Worm Cave System that was talked about in the early A16 Preview Videos?

 

Is this completly scrapped or still planned/comming for A17 ?

 

They've also been made more dungeon-like complete with Goblins, Cave Trolls and a Balrog at the end.

 

Sorry, couldn't resist :-)

[DeadMole]

Max Stamina = Fullness level

Stamina will only regen up to the modified max (how much fuel you have in the tank AKA Food.)

Keep it topped off longer with good hearty foods that will provide an over time fullness rather than a simple jolt of energy

 

Water controls the regen rate of both stamina and HP (current value and max). It will also restore some Stamina. If you're dehydrated you regen stamina and hp slower. (Min 25% regen speed) This means that eating while low on water won't do you as much good as eating while hydrated.

 

HP is how much fight you currently have in you. The modified max hp is how banged up you are. (Min 25% of actual max hp) This means that you can quick fix some bleeding and such in a fight (hp) but for each point of health lost you lose a fraction of your max HP. Using higher end healing items will restore this, as will time. Similar to a recovery time after a bad fight. Patch it up proper and it'll heal faster, let it go and it'll still heal, it will just take longer and give you less overall hp for your next fight.

 

Thanks for the clarification, but honestly this new system seems confusing and I prefer wellness more.

 

There is no more hunger bar. Hunger can now be tracked by the shrinking of max stamina. This is great because now hunger means something the entire time it builds within your character.

 

Not only that, but it also means 2 bars in one so no more need to mod the game to constantly keep track of hunger. But we all know you will want the stamina bar gone next, hehe.

[DeadMole]

I won't confirm or deny anything but those things are obviously level designer tools.

 

Ingame you wouldn't need more than a compass marker.

 

I'd suggest to have a cup of tea and calm down but...

 

You mean like settling down and not freak out because there is question marks breaking immersion in the video of a current work in progress alpha version of the game? No way!