Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Roland]

Wouldn't matter, since daycounts are now meaningless for the most part.

 

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...but on the other hand, it would give it SOME boost to gamestages, /and/ be low enough so that you'd have time to get your bearings.

 

This is what I meant. The gamestage shouldn't reset.

[SnowDog1942]

No, I want it to be even worse. The first blood moon should be random from 2 to 7 days and then it be at 7 days intervals. You would have to keep track yourself. No more simple math.

 

I never liked that you happen to show up exactly the morning after a blood moon.

 

You are suggesting a design change. Im just suggesting a new label that doest make me alt tab to use the calculator when i cant remember what day it the last horde was on. Please for the love of god.... Week 32 Day 5

.. See how nice that looks?

[Gnomaana]

You are suggesting a design change. Im just suggesting a new label that doest make me alt tab to use the calculator when i cant remember what day it the last horde was on. Please for the love of god.... Week 32 Day 5

.. See how nice that looks?

 

Ok, no design change. First blood moon is 7 days after you start but, no day counter at all. You have to keep track of how many days it has been since last blood moon.

 

The day counter is a crutch. It is something you should have to keep track of yourself in a survival situation. I know this would make playing on a server all kinds of hell so I don't expect it to happen. But, no reason to make it even easier either.

[Aldranon]

A radiation suit that lets you travel across the map border into a "new map" would do that.

You could bring one vehicle of your choice with you.

 

You could end up on an island in the Pacific by walking? You ARE special!

[Crater Creator]

I really wonder whether starting on Day 1 in a new map as a high level character would really be fun at all or challenging in the least. Maybe a new land but the day count remains the same?

 

I think it absolutely would be fun and challenging. Most players that have been playing in a world for a long time have a strong base that, through myriad means, counters a significant portion of the Blood Moon horde threat. Most players also have a minibike and know the lay of the land by that point, so they've become very efficient at looting supplies. To put it simply, they have a lot of stuff.

 

Throw that player in a new world with only a few prized possessions, and it's back to square one: you have no base, no map, and no stockpile. It'd definitely be more challenging than staying where you were. You're higher level, which means you can bounce back faster, but only to a point. You still need to find a wrench and get some mechanical parts before you can make a workbench, make yourself good new tools, etc. etc. You could bring a wrench with you, but that's the beauty of the toolbelt-only idea: you can get a leg up in a few areas you choose, but you can't cover all your bases.

 

Then consider that worlds could be progressively more challenging at higher levels. You could encounter things like all-snow worlds or mostly-water worlds: worlds that would be too challenging on Day 1 otherwise.

 

I'm not saying the gamestage needs to roll back to zero, but I do want to make the case that good balance would require stepping down the gamestage, as a kind of 'shock absorber' for all the extra things you'd be doing at the start.

 

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No, I want it to be even worse. The first blood moon should be random from 2 to 7 days and then it be at 7 days intervals. You would have to keep track yourself. No more simple math.

 

I never liked that you happen to show up exactly the morning after a blood moon.

 

That sounds like a very backwards learning curve.

[Aldranon]

I know this is beyond the scope of A17, but since we’re talking about it... if this ever happens, I suggest the player can only bring their tool belt with them. That’s what will make it feel like a clean slate, without limiting playstyles. The explorer wants to bring their vehicle, but the builder wants to bring a stack of concrete mix, the fighter wants to bring their best rifle, the dead-is-dead survivalist wants to bring medicine, the nomadic trader wants to bring Dukes, and so on.

 

I like how you think, that's why having an airship could also cause that: The airship and all its goods crashed and burned, all you have left is what you're carrying. If you want to do that of course (Another part 1).

 

But if you let your imagination run a bit...

Zombies could be part of genetic experiment by the <Insert evil order here>. They also genetically modified themselves and their army! Fighting the Duke was merely a "Slightly modified Tier 2 Soldier". The number of tiers would be unknown to you!

[The Gronk]

Did anyone work out how map-hopping would work in a multi-player environment?

[Gnomaana]

That sounds like a very backwards learning curve.

 

Not sure what you mean by backwards learning curve. There isn't much learning to "How many days since my last blood moon?" I guess you have to "learn" to count to 7 but that's not much of a curve either way, forward or backward.

[The Gronk]

Not sure what you mean by backwards learning curve. There isn't much learning to "How many days since my last blood moon?" I guess you have to "learn" to count to 7 but that's not much of a curve either way, forward or backward.

 

Randomizing the horde night between min and max values (such as 3 days to 9 days) would add variety, fear, and render the need to count days irrelevant. I can't see it being too hard to implement.

[Phoenixshade35]

I gotta say I like the idea of starting a new map with a high level character, maybe as an option to export a character for those that wanna do that, could make things interesting for the explorers that are out there, explore without dying nearly as often on a new game, on the flip side maybe just have the skills reset so you can take new skills instead and try for a different kind of character? The options have a high limit i believe, as far as classes go since its on the table from what i could tell, would a hunter class start with a hunting rifle of decent quality and some ammo on the belt?

[chaosterone]

I like how you think, that's why having an airship could also cause that: The airship and all its goods crashed and burned, all you have left is what you're carrying. If you want to do that of course (Another part 1).

 

But if you let your imagination run a bit...

Zombies could be part of genetic experiment by the <Insert evil order here>. They also genetically modified themselves and their army! Fighting the Duke was merely a "Slightly modified Tier 2 Soldier". The number of tiers would be unknown to you!

 

Why not make it so the land you travel to is the Governors stronghold. No matter what your affiliation/alignment was in Navesgane/random gen, you are an enemy of the Governors' state. Now you have to survive run-ins and 7 Day raids by bandits and henchmen. Just a thought.

[Gnomaana]

Randomizing the horde night between min and max values (such as 3 days to 9 days) would add variety, fear, and render the need to count days irrelevant. I can't see it being too hard to implement.

 

I have no problem with that either. I doubt it will happen since the name is based on that interval. Making the first one random to simulate spawning in the middle of a cycle would be ok. Even just removing the day count from the Hud would at least make it so you have to keep track yourself.

[Guppycur]

Did anyone work out how map-hopping would work in a multi-player environment?

 

We're talking server hopping, right? Nevewintrr Nights did it, many many years ago, can't be that hard.

[The Gronk]

We're talking server hopping, right? Nevewintrr Nights did it, many many years ago, can't be that hard.

 

Server hopping makes more sense but opens up issues with differing mods on the either end of the journey. Imagine the fear when you realize the server you've just landed on hasn't actually got the mod for your killatron-5000, leaving you unarmed at a high gamestage on horde night.

 

Not an insurmountable problem but something that must be accounted for.

[Crater Creator]

Not sure what you mean by backwards learning curve. There isn't much learning to "How many days since my last blood moon?" I guess you have to "learn" to count to 7 but that's not much of a curve either way, forward or backward.

 

I mean that it's hardest at the start, and then gets easier. That first Blood Moon, being unpredictable in its timing, is harder than subsequent Blood Moons, when you know the schedule. A normal difficulty curve starts easy and gets harder as you progress. You can conceptually raise or lower that difficulty curve, but because it's not the right shape, it's always going to make things too hard at the start, or too easy/boring at the end, compared to the ideal.

 

I have no problem with that either. I doubt it will happen since the name is based on that interval. Making the first one random to simulate spawning in the middle of a cycle would be ok. Even just removing the day count from the Hud would at least make it so you have to keep track yourself.

 

So I keep a piece of paper on my desk with tally marks. Is that fun? I would say no. It's just bookkeeping. Let the computer do the bookkeeping for me, the way it tracks buff durations, quest timers, and everything else.

[Aldranon]

Randomizing the horde night between min and max values (such as 3 days to 9 days) would add variety, fear, and render the need to count days irrelevant. I can't see it being too hard to implement.

 

Only unless that is a no compromise story line for the game.

 

You can ask why is it every 7 days since YOU showed up, zombies, or whats controlling them, is trying desperately to kill you? With no memory but you're able to learn skills in a day what would take others a lifetime! Does the power needed to create a 7 day horde just happen to take 7 days to charge up?

 

Is it magic? Or like Arthur C. Clark said: “Magic's just science that we don't understand yet.”

 

Taking that premise, were you suppose to be the latest and greatest genetically modified soldier? Did something go wrong and you are a dire threat to "Them" or are you just a new toy they're testing?

 

The game could get blockbuster movie good!

[The Gronk]

Only unless that is a no compromise story line for the game.

 

<snipped for space>

 

The game could get blockbuster movie good!

 

"Plot? There ain't no plot!"

- PigKiller - Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome (paraphrased)

 

It would be a good idea for an optional setting although I can't really see the duration between hordes making that much difference to a storyline. Whether whatever causes the horde happens once a week or once a month I can't see it being canonically tied to the concept of a seven day week.

 

You might go full Romero and claim that Z's somehow remember the horrors of a Monday morning which sends them into a blind rage the night before.

[JaxTeller718]

Did anyone work out how map-hopping would work in a multi-player environment?

 

We had a plan in place to do this ages ago on our server. We set a day, had everyone take what they could on them and would then delete the world but save the profiles. Then we would start a new world, insert the older profiles and we had to find a new settlement to build up. We were going to do it in "Seasons" so every 30-60 days we would get a new map with new layouts.

 

We never actually did it but i can tell you it would work because we recently had to wipe a map to world errors and we reimported everyone with skills and inventory to it and our days reset to 1 on a new map. Some kind of game mode might be fun for something like this in MP but i dont ever expect it to be added. But it is entirely possible to achieve this now.

[Jacoviz]

You are suggesting a design change. Im just suggesting a new label that doest make me alt tab to use the calculator when i cant remember what day it the last horde was on. Please for the love of god.... Week 32 Day 5

.. See how nice that looks?

 

Quick mafh!

[IrishGhost]

You are suggesting a design change. Im just suggesting a new label that doest make me alt tab to use the calculator when i cant remember what day it the last horde was on. Please for the love of god.... Week 32 Day 5

.. See how nice that looks?

 

Can't help but agree

[Crater Creator]

Did anyone work out how map-hopping would work in a multi-player environment?

 

I've given it some thought...

 

Blood moon zombies, specifically, have a chance to drop a 'rescue' quest note. On activation, this quest picks a random area on the map to be the extraction zone and starts a timer. When the timer expires, anyone standing in the extraction zone is 'rescued': they are whisked away to the new map, accompanied by any cutscenes.

 

Players in the extraction zone spawn together in the new world with their tool belts intact. Players not in the extraction zone at the time are not rescued and thus 'don't make it'. This is presented as a failure state. They spawn into the new world away from the others, with no clothes or tool belt, as if they had died or assumed a new character. Thus there's an incentive to kill lots of zombies on horde night, loot the corpses, and reach the extraction zone in time to avoid a kind of death penalty.

 

In PvE, you could agree to do the rescue quest when everybody's ready for something new. You can work out people's roles so they can bring the most important stuff, and get to work right away tearing into the new world.

 

In PvP, you'll want to kill and loot as many zombies as possible in hopes of getting the rescue quest yourself. Let's say everybody can see the extraction zone & timer once activated. You can try to trigger the extraction at the most inconvenient time for others. Everyone can sprint to the extraction zone and attempt to defend it until time runs out: a King of the Hill battle royale. Since you don't know where the extraction zone will be, you can't set up defenses beforehand. Though I prefer PvE, I think it could create some pretty epic endgame brawls.

 

I'm not sure what to do about players not logged in when extraction time hits. They'd be unhappy to lose all their stuff, but you can't protect them either or they'll log out on purpose. If people were really open to outside-the-box ideas, the players being extracted could split off and actually join a different server, but I doubt it would actually come to pass like that.

[Aldranon]

"Plot? There ain't no plot!"

- PigKiller - Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome (paraphrased)

 

It would be a good idea for an optional setting although I can't really see the duration between hordes making that much difference to a storyline. Whether whatever causes the horde happens once a week or once a month I can't see it being canonically tied to the concept of a seven day week.

 

You might go full Romero and claim that Z's somehow remember the horrors of a Monday morning which sends them into a blind rage the night before.

 

Monday morning zombies... We've seen 'em.

 

I suppose your right. What I had in mind was one of my pet POI's: A partially working nuclear reactor your enemies use to try and kill you along with some satellite station that is located elsewhere. Only a minor containment breach that should be fix along with mowing the yard I guess. Could be rich in quests or missions.

[Maharin]

Is it magic? Or like Arthur C. Clark said: “Magic's just science that we don't understand yet.”

 

Another variation on that theme from Clarke: "Any sufficiently advanced science is indistinguishable from magic."

[Aldranon]

I'm sorry I wasn't thinking about team play. Mostly because specific Mob's (The Duke) and some quest POI's could be too easy for a group. In a game designed for single player, group play is synonymous with sandbox with me.

 

Nothing is impossible.

[KronosKronight]

Did anyone work out how map-hopping would work in a multi-player environment?

 

I know the last server I was on the admin had the old map saved and would import you base you had build up in. Not sure about player profiles as I thought they saved on the players PC not the server.

 

I think they did this because the world somewhere something went majorly wrong.

 

But yes 30 days then server reset but you could keep your player stats I think could be a do able feature. Maybe even your base 30x30x30 blocks could be moved as well (saves as a prefab or something).

I dont know if the the server admins would like a hacker/greif player thats very high level as they could cause so many problems.