Roland Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share Posted December 9, 2017 “I had to hop up hills” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odetta Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Yep. Lmao! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillls Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 “I had to hop up hills” Me to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicketness Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Ok lets get back to the real reason we are all here..... it is all of us against this we must make sure this doesn't get out this could be what ends the human race and produces the guppycurian forum A.I that will take over the entire internet of forums. 0.o what are we gonna do. Ctrl + Alt + Del RIP i can handle it anymore RIP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 don;t get me wrong i love the game but it scares me when you see the what i will call the old lion vs the young lion coming out. but time will tell, 2.5 million copies is alot i know from my own gaming group at least 100+ can no longer play the game and they are not even looking into those issues yet. i really hope these new guys are the new blood this game needs someone to actually work on it like a job and not when you feel like it. "Passionate Hobby" is what I called it to myself and its not entirely a bad thing in the short term. In the long term, because of the passion for the game, 7D2D will most likely become the Gold Standard for voxel games. When will it be done? When their passion for a Part2 is stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stallionsden Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Yep, Dead Matter really looks good. Good looking means you will have fun looking at stuff the first 10 hours until you have seen (nearly) everything. Then lets see if that game has the necessary depth and will really keep you playing for 2500 hours too. Then and only then come back and tell us of the shipwreck that 7days supposedly is. How can it derail a game that already successfully **released** to more than 2 mio. people? If everyone stopped playing Skyrim today, would doomsayers come out and declare Skyrim derailed and a failure? And notice that Dead Matter releases in first quarter of 2018 as an EA game as well. Anyone have a good guess on how long it will stays in EA? (Actually, since it isn't voxel, it probably will be out faster, but well, voxel is what makes 7d special) Dead matter also uses unreal engine and not unity. You can not compare games that 1. Use different engines and 2. Two of the same type a game but are still completely different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sillls Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Dead matter also uses unreal engine and not unity. You can not compare games that 1. Use different engines and 2. Two of the same type a game but are still completely different. Which is better, unreal of unity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubo Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Ok lets get back to the real reason we are all here..... it is all of us against this we must make sure this doesn't get out this could be what ends the human race and produces the guppycurian forum A.I that will take over the entire internet of forums. 0.o what are we gonna do. Ctrl + Alt + Del RIP i can handle it anymore RIP "Passionate Hobby" is what I called it to myself and its not entirely a bad thing in the short term. In the long term, because of the passion for the game, 7D2D will most likely become the Gold Standard for voxel games. When will it be done? When their passion for a Part2 is stronger. That was rather poetic.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stallionsden Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Which is better, unreal of unity? Each has their own qualities. But imho unreal kills unity. Altho I do believe and to my understanding you can't do voxel on unreal engine or have fully destructible worlds and this is where unity exceeds. So each has their own exceeding qualities and their own downfalls to. Someone whom has more knowledge maybe able to correct me or add to it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickstaa Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 OMG!!!..... if they can't be placed with a Bow/Crossbow.... It will be a waste of time to make work right..... just in case you go "why?" Scenario: You are on a building with tons of Zombies surrounding you..you want to go from one building to another "with your Zipline" So because you can't place it with a well placed Crossbow or bow shot...you have to run all the way to the bottom of the building "With a Tool anyways" to place it then run all the way to the top again just to use it. Mind you in turn your running threw Zombies anyways...you might as well not place it.....and just leave...... So unless its done right..its worthless..... and if i hurt anybody feelings putting it this way...too bad..get a life... the Modding forums have Awesome programmers also...but you know..... Or you know it could be placed in preparation for whatever lies ahead... Scenario: you have looted a huge tower a few days ago which now has been respawned...rather than looting all the way to the top to run all the way back down, you get to the top and zip line down. -Mic Drop- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Or you know it could be placed in preparation for whatever lies ahead... Scenario: you have looted a huge tower a few days ago which now has been respawned...rather than looting all the way to the top to run all the way back down, you get to the top and zip line down. -Mic Drop- Or you place some haybales and jump simply down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiperion Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I just know about Starvation mod, there's any more mod that add survivors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazz Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 5 years isn't really that long for a game in development. I know games that take 6-8 years in development and they are a huge company with way more people working on it but the difference is they don't let you play while working on the game so you don't hear about the game until they get closer to a release date. Team size is often misunderstood. Having a dedicated systems designer can help. Having 20 systems designers goes everywhere and nowhere. You do need these giant teams to put out an off-the-shelf AAA title with a pre-baked map and lots of POI. The handcrafted play area in Fallout 4 is certainly bigger than in 7D and that's what you need a lot of people for. TFP is a small team and has no illusions about that. You can see re-used POI and content but you will also see increasing random variations in these POI that will make you less certain whether or not this really was the same house you had just been in. =) ...my point is, these are foundations for when they're ready to be implemented, and it just so happens, A17 will implement a lot of the stuff we've been seeing lying in wait, and well, it takes time. =) Quests alone... geesh, the potential there... I've said it before, it's got the potential to be the most powerful system in the game, and from Roland's crumb dropping lately it sounds pretty awesome. The quest system (and the supporting infrastructure) will not suck. I only work on bits of the "supporting infrastructure" but it will be a lot more than "kill 5 zombie nurses"... (and I don't mean 20 zombie nurses) Gazz can you please hofix a few bugs in the game ? As example i think it would be nice if the player drops all items of his belt every 3rd time he meets a wolf Hmm. That would just be XML now. Every time you get killed by dogs the dogCounter increases by 5, every time you are close to dogs it increases by 1. Every dog you kill decreases it by 1. Over time it decays but if it goes over 10 you get temporary cynophobia. On encountering dogs you soil your breeches and get some sort of debuff. The buff/item/skill system is now... quite powerful. You singled out ONE line from his otherwise spot on post. Yes, I do. Steam reviews are "very positive" and recent reviews keep trending up still. The whole social media hubbub may be crucial for a game with an expected shelf life of 3 weeks but 7DTD is not an It Girl that will be gone by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crater Creator Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 TFP is a small team and has no illusions about that. You can see re-used POI and content but you will also see increasing random variations in these POI that will make you less certain whether or not this really was the same house you had just been in. =) That's the most encouraging thing I've heard in some time. I'm hopefully preaching to the choir (or the architect of the church as the case may be), but handcrafted variation can't compete with procedural variation for creating the thousands of hours worth of non-repetitive content that makes this game stand out. I do hope that in time you'll leverage the same approach to characters as well as environments: the same rationale applies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtrakicking Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 The quest system (and the supporting infrastructure) will not suck. I only work on bits of the "supporting infrastructure" but it will be a lot more than "kill 5 zombie nurses"... (and I don't mean 20 zombie nurses) I think in order for it to be fun it has to blend in with the world, like in Red Dead Redemption. Is it cool to find a random note that tells you to do something? Maybe once or twice, but most of the times it isn't. Now, is it fun to walk down a road and come across a grieving woman asking for help cause her husband is trapped in a house surrounded by zombies? Hell yeah. The quest system is one of the things that should make the world feel alive; that should make the player forget he or she's playing a game. That's very hard to accomplish, but if you nail it you got one hell of a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toores Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 There you go. Quests are coming and if you want your prefabs to work with them you'll have to do things with the super cool tools the developers are building for us. That's all I can say. Nice! This will add tons of gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 ... but handcrafted variation can't compete with procedural variation for creating the thousands of hours worth of non-repetitive content that makes this game stand out. Not in numbers, but in quality, and you still need the handcrafted stuff as input for the procedural variation to get any complexity into the variation. Procedural variation alone is high in quantity but low on quality. For example it is easy to place a variable number of dogs or lamps in a poi, but that variation is shallow and won't surprise or entertain you after the third visit of the same poi. To make procedural variation interesting you still need to handcraft each variation. So the only advantage of the procedural variation is the randomness of placement but the effort of creating all these handcrafted variations is still there. Procedural variation can even be detrimental if non-sensical combinations are selected by the procedural placer. Contrived example: A quest npc and a zombie bear are placed in the same cave and you wonder how the NPC gets out alive each day to scrounge for food. Just look at games that already tried procedural variation, players usually sense the shallowness of the variation quite fast and complain about it. Examples: Skyrim and Fallout 4 quests (even though Bethesda had the people to produce lots of handcrafted variations to supply the procedural generator, but the skeleton of each handcrafted variation probably stuck out to observant players). Even better and everyone's favourite example: No Man's Sky. I'm not talking about the other serious problems NMS had, a lot of critics also talked about how the random worlds and animals feel just like basically the same few worlds and animals with slighty different colors and textures. (Disclaimer: I haven't played any of these games, but followed the controversies in news and forums). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share Posted December 9, 2017 I think in order for it to be fun it has to blend in with the world, like in Red Dead Redemption. Is it cool to find a random note that tells you to do something? Maybe once or twice, but most of the times it isn't. Now, is it fun to walk down a road and come across a griving woman asking for help cause his husband is trapped in a house surrounded by zombies? Hell yeah. The quest system is one of the things that should make the world feel alive; that should make the player forget he's playing a game. That's very hard to accomplish, but if you nail it you got one hell of a game. Hmmmmm for this to be the case you would hypothetically need to develop a quest system that could hijack the sleeper volumes and loot of a particular POI so that when triggered, the quest would repopulate the POI to support the quest conditions. Even cooler would be if the devs made these “hijacking” tools available to modders so that community created quests could become as popular as community created prefabs..... Hypothetically speaking.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maharin Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Bullfrogs confirmed. =) Only if they look like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xtrakicking Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Hmmmmm for this to be the case you would hypothetically need to develop a quest system that could hijack the sleeper volumes and loot of a particular POI so that when triggered, the quest would repopulate the POI to support the quest conditions. Even cooler would be if the devs made these “hijacking” tools available to modders so that community created quests could become as popular as community created prefabs..... Hypothetically speaking.... Either that or just a system that spawns the house with the husband inside and walkers around whenever the lady appears. That is, spawn a completely new POI for the occasion instead of hijacking an existing one. I like the hijacking idea better, obviously, but an easier solution would be that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aldranon Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I think in order for it to be fun it has to blend in with the world, like in Red Dead Redemption. Is it cool to find a random note that tells you to do something? Maybe once or twice, but most of the times it isn't. Now, is it fun to walk down a road and come across a griving woman asking for help cause his husband is trapped in a house surrounded by zombies? Hell yeah. The quest system is one of the things that should make the world feel alive; that should make the player forget he's playing a game. That's very hard to accomplish, but if you nail it you got one hell of a game. I was thinking how you would do random quests. 1) Spawning Quest Initiators: NPC's/POI's that if interacted with correctly and possibly some triggers are active (Player rep > 50, Evil Bandits power > 1500, player has specific item or gamestage). 2) Quest story arc modifier: Active triggers, Prior quest results and "game stage" could affect parts or the entire quest! 3) Friend and enemy NPC's: They could like/hate the player so much that a Quest story is created: Enemy kidnaped a friendly ally demands (money, item, ect). Friendly tells of some secret item, money location. Something like that could make for virtually endless play! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maharin Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Hmmmmm for this to be the case you would hypothetically need to develop a quest system that could hijack the sleeper volumes and loot of a particular POI so that when triggered, the quest would repopulate the POI to support the quest conditions. Even cooler would be if the devs made these “hijacking” tools available to modders so that community created quests could become as popular as community created prefabs..... Hypothetically speaking.... If they had a separate subsystem for spawns instead of having them defined with the POI, that could work easily enough. Have the POI's define where spawns could be, not what or when. Then game difficulty could increase the percentage of active spawn points within POI's and the quest system could also weigh in with what and when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anabella Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 We /literally/ just had an a16 update... not seeing why we're asking for 17 just yet... there's still plenty to do IMO. <shrug> Yea me either. As far as the streaming 7D2D. I am still doing it and have no plans to stop. I am still getting viewers on it and gain more each time I stream it seems for the most part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctoras Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 I would agree, but don't you think the fact that EVERY game now a days is EA means the rules have changed? Much like DLC was NEVER a thing back in the nes days now it is standard. EA is quickly becoming a standard way to fund projects further. It isn't all about bug testing. This game and others prove some bugs aren't even worth fixing right away. The main advantage of releasing today is the early influx of cash to continue the project. It is the new way of going to investors and asking for money. There is an incentive problem whatsoever and we are at fault. Look at prominent EA examples like PubG or DayZ (or Ark, Rust and others). An EA game is hyped so you will find 80% of those buying will be early adopters buying right in the first weeks. That's where the cash flow is. Further development down the line will only see comparably little money trickling in and actually further development might even be a loss business. Of course a team cannot just go after 4 weeks and drop the game and start another EA project, which would be the most economic thing to do. This is due to the reputation loss not allowing that. Had we no reputation system this would be the way to go. Nonetheless unless I use the game to promote future games, incentive for further development is reduced by most of the cash flow already acquired. Early access is a double edged sword and I personally don't like it. That doesnt matter as I have to accept it for what it is, but it's not the best incentive for a good finish job. This entire statement does not refer to 7d2d, but to the business of Early Access as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share Posted December 9, 2017 There is another incentive that does apply to this game: The owners love what they are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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