Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Maharin]

Douglas Adams and Scott Adams, that way no one needs to change their name.

 

And we'll throw in another Scott Adams just to make things complicated:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Adams_(game_designer)

 

I've played most of his games. I think I had three of them for my Commodore VIC20.

[TheSurvivor]

No, its more like the game mods *(I.E. Valmod, etc...) that you can download into your game. Like being able to make a custom vehicle model and so on. Like a somewhat complex mod where you have to get a car lift in say a Vehicle Workshop or gas station ,with the little dips in the floor to crawl under cars and work on them, and you could get big engines (not the regular small for bike) wheels, frames, windows, and maybe extra attachments like a spike hood or wedge to plow through walls or hordes of zombies.

[Aldranon]

And we'll throw in another Scott Adams just to make things complicated:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott_Adams_(game_designer)

 

I've played most of his games. I think I had three of them for my Commodore VIC20.

 

I'm going to nix that unless it's the "Dilbert" Scott Adams. Two zany parents with cutting wits, it would be the best dysfunctional childhood I could imagine!

[meganoth]

I hoping for a early Christmas present from the Pimps...BUT....with 10 additional team members ...you would think ..SOON.. would be sooner then A16s soon and be sooner.

 

Let's do the math:

 

10 additional members need 2 man-months of tutelage from existing team members to get up to speed. Since the 10 are mostly graphics guys and level designers, only a few existing team members can help, in this case 5.

 

10 * 2 / 5 = 4, meaning 4 additional months delay because of the new staff.

 

Time between major releases is constantly increasing, the last interval was 10 months. Fun Pimps may strive for a shorter cycle but anyone with experience in computer science knows that it is futile to attempt to change anything about that dynamic. Statistical data points to 12 months base development time for A17

 

12 + 4 is 16. A16 experimental came out in 7.17, so A17 experimental will be released in 11.18 plus/minus 1 month

 

This estimation is 100% reliable, foolproof except when fools are reading this, and unavoidable unless a zombie apocalypse breaks out in the mean time.

[skippy0330]

Just to point out that A16 is trending down to the lowest point 7 days has ever been on google, and youtube, and many, many long time twitch streamers have switched games. If we have to wait well into 2018, with the AI being the way it is now, this'll be a very dead game. I appreciate you guys hired more devs, but that should have been done long ago, just like Ark, the reason it's successful, they kept growing. another year + wait for an Alpha is just unacceptable, this game should be well into Beta now.

 

I've spent a long time defending this game and the ultra slow dev of it, but I'm pretty much done. I know a lot won't care, but the hopes of a dev reading this and understanding that investment is key to a successful game, and having sold millions of copies, its not unjustified to demand it.

 

You stop being indy, when your pockets are full. than you're a studio. Hopefully we see some actual action out of this team, or this game is dead in two years. Esp with very little content added in A17, we need less poi's and more intense development of the core game. 4 years and nowhere close to beta.

 

Rust, a game that is horrible, has 5x the people playing it at the moment.

 

Let's step it up guys.

 

once again, i stand firm on saying there is NO excuse for the current AI system, which drove away all my friends that played the game since day 1. NO excuse. FIX it. A lot of other alpha devs fix and bug fix as they are building, the excuse that you'll fix them during Beta is no longer valid. that's only valid when a game spends a small amount in dev, not almost a year between major updates.

 

 

*edited. put 5 years instead of 4

[Gazz]

Fine, no bugs will be fixed during beta. Happy now? =P

[caatalyst]

I have to agree to some extent that in a16 the AI is really bad. I’m just not feeling challenged at all by zombies considering how easy it is to exploit them. I really would love a AI fixing patch more than anything else.

[Maharin]

Fine, no bugs will be fixed during beta. Happy now? =P

 

Just add bug fixing as mod option. Programming an entire game in XML can't be that hard, can it?

[wicketness]

i stand behind my estimate of summer 2018 but with that math that's next year November yeah that sounds about right. so 1 year more to wait.

ok i am gonna go stick my head in a hole and cry

 

BUT SOON!!!! or SOONER?

 

so with each new alpha they add more team members and the time between alphas increases by 4 months per team member. so we can expect A18 by 2020.

 

if i live long enough to make it to alpha 19 when i am 90 i will die happy

 

wait i think a18 by 2023 i am so confused i no maths do well

[Gamida]

Just add bug fixing as mod option. Programming an entire game in XML can't be that hard, can it?

 

I always thought XML stood for Xtra Madmole Love

[Ayrton]

I endorse this comment

 

Just to point out that A16 is trending down to the lowest point 7 days has ever been on google, and youtube, and many, many long time twitch streamers have switched games. If we have to wait well into 2018, with the AI being the way it is now, this'll be a very dead game. I appreciate you guys hired more devs, but that should have been done long ago, just like Ark, the reason it's successful, they kept growing. another year + wait for an Alpha is just unacceptable, this game should be well into Beta now.

 

I've spent a long time defending this game and the ultra slow dev of it, but I'm pretty much done. I know a lot won't care, but the hopes of a dev reading this and understanding that investment is key to a successful game, and having sold millions of copies, its not unjustified to demand it.

 

You stop being indy, when your pockets are full. than you're a studio. Hopefully we see some actual action out of this team, or this game is dead in two years. Esp with very little content added in A17, we need less poi's and more intense development of the core game. 4 years and nowhere close to beta.

 

Rust, a game that is horrible, has 5x the people playing it at the moment.

 

Let's step it up guys.

 

once again, i stand firm on saying there is NO excuse for the current AI system, which drove away all my friends that played the game since day 1. NO excuse. FIX it. A lot of other alpha devs fix and bug fix as they are building, the excuse that you'll fix them during Beta is no longer valid. that's only valid when a game spends a small amount in dev, not almost a year between major updates.

 

 

*edited. put 5 years instead of 4

[Aldranon]

I have to agree to some extent that in a16 the AI is really bad. I’m just not feeling challenged at all by zombies considering how easy it is to exploit them. I really would love a AI fixing patch more than anything else.

 

If the NPC's AI is wonky, then I will agree. Zombies are just a background threat, unless you make a mistake.

[wicketness]

I endorse this comment

 

Just to point out that A16 is trending down to the lowest point 7 days has ever been on google, and youtube, and many, many long time twitch streamers have switched games. If we have to wait well into 2018, with the AI being the way it is now, this'll be a very dead game. I appreciate you guys hired more devs, but that should have been done long ago, just like Ark, the reason it's successful, they kept growing. another year + wait for an Alpha is just unacceptable, this game should be well into Beta now.

 

I've spent a long time defending this game and the ultra slow dev of it, but I'm pretty much done. I know a lot won't care, but the hopes of a dev reading this and understanding that investment is key to a successful game, and having sold millions of copies, its not unjustified to demand it.

 

You stop being indy, when your pockets are full. than you're a studio. Hopefully we see some actual action out of this team, or this game is dead in two years. Esp with very little content added in A17, we need less poi's and more intense development of the core game. 4 years and nowhere close to beta.

 

Rust, a game that is horrible, has 5x the people playing it at the moment.

 

Let's step it up guys.

 

once again, i stand firm on saying there is NO excuse for the current AI system, which drove away all my friends that played the game since day 1. NO excuse. FIX it. A lot of other alpha devs fix and bug fix as they are building, the excuse that you'll fix them during Beta is no longer valid. that's only valid when a game spends a small amount in dev, not almost a year between major updates.

 

 

*edited. put 5 years instead of 4

 

thanks a lot you just increased the time for A17 because that now add multiplicational birds flying south for the winter divided by pie and no the cake is not real cause mad moles beard ate.

[Aldranon]

I think they need to hire a story writer that can convert a story into a game plot.

 

You need the main story arc and sub story arcs if you want it done well.

 

Game plot: (not necessarily in this order)

1) Getting in touch with protagonist persons/groups.

2) Dealing with antagonist persons/groups.

3) Discovery of main story arc, it's scope and threat.

4) Discovery of additional clues to main story and sub story arcs.

[wicketness]

I think they need to hire a story writer that can convert a story into a game plot.

 

You need the main story arc and sub story arcs if you want it done well.

 

just add this forum to the story if you need drama there is enough here to keep playera raging for years

[meganoth]

Rust, a game that is horrible, has 5x the people playing it at the moment.

 

The comparison with Rust is not quite applicable since Rust is a pvp game. All pvp games have the advantage that you just need a working scenery and the players do the rest of the entertainment, the developer's only taskafter initial development is to balance everything.

 

Any single-player and even cooperative game has a limited life time (counted from release of the first playable version!), any amusement must come from stuff/stories/NPCs planted into the game at a speed that is much lower than the familiarization speed of the player. I bet you anything that maximal 2 days after TFP release the complete story module for Navezgane the first player will post "Killed the Duke, reached the end of the main story, what else is there to do?" in this forum.

 

Actually the early access development model best fits pvp games as only their lifetime is long enough to encompass the ea phase and a final version phase.

 

If you are speaking as a pvp player, well, lots of other fish aka games in that pool, I'm happy that this game caters to single/coop players first.

 

If you bring something like skyrim as a counter example to the limited lifetime of SP-games, all the bethesda games have a declining user base comapred to release, and that would be even more pronounced if they didn't have modders to add content all the time.

[wicketness]

a friend pointed out there is now 3 new games extremely similar to 7dtd this will be interesting to watch just saying.

[lobison444]

what are you talking about? Thats too soon!

 

Its between now and the end of the human race. I mean, how fun would it be to play 7 days to die, during an actual zombie apocalypse? Xd

 

loooooolll

[Katitof]

Fine, no bugs will be fixed during beta. Happy now? =P

 

*until beta.

 

beta is for fixing bugs

alpha for adding features

and hopes are for release before we'll pass the alpha game on new generation

[Anabella]

Wow, didn't think anyone else here would have listened to that song

 

I use to own the 45 of that.

[fragtzack]

The AI (pathing)

Lack of end game challenge (behemoth, bandits, etc)

Underground issues (no danger, safe from zombies, etc)

 

 

The A17 features being shared by the pimps is cool stuff, but the above 3 items and previous posts on this subject seems much more worthy to work on if there is a priority list "before release".

 

I have not read all the posts however, if there is no gold release set in stone. Seems that A17 with the fluff (vs core stuff needed) is fine and come back to the core issues in a future Alpha release.

 

While I have been following the forums somewhat the last 6 months, I agree with the above posters. I stopped playing 7D2D in July after playing A16 because of the AI and lack of a meaningful end game challenge.

[Kamikaze]

Sorry for offtopic but Am I only one who don't care about singleplayer and play only multiplayer? Were here poll for MP vs SP sometimes?

[Royal Deluxe]

There is a poll thought for PVE vs PVP

 

>80% play offline

[lobison444]

who would like more variety of weapons to melee and shields

 

post page 444 yes

[rdunham3]

I have to laugh at folks who complain that alpha 16 is "so bad" and how the [early access] game is trending poorly on Google, Youtube or really anywhere.

 

20 years ago a game in this stage of development might get a magazine article, two if it was lucky. It would be a non-entity. You wouldn't get to see the inside of the sausage factory, for that matter they might or might not even admit to making this particular flavor of sausage. Many games got cancelled at or beyond this stage of their development cycle and nobody outside the company was the wiser.

 

You/we are not entitled to jack squat here. They could have left us with alpha 10 for the last couple of years with no dev chatter, concept art, or even whispers of things perhaps one day to come. I personally think it was a mistake to let a16 hit the general population in the playability state it was in, although 16.4 has treated me well, it's in many ways less interesting because of the system changeouts still in progress. It'll get better once all those dangling half-connected bits get put where they belong with the missing bits attached. Most people can't handle this sausage factory view and keep expecting each alpha release to look and play like a finished game. It's mind boggling, really.