Ouch Quit It Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Hmm, you've never added new key members to a team, I gather... Otherwise, you must be the greatest leader there ever was... I am.....chicks dig me...cause I rarely wear underwear...and when I do it's usually something special! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrton Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 a friend pointed out there is now 3 new games extremely similar to 7dtd this will be interesting to watch just saying. which? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxTeller718 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Just to point out that A16 is trending down to the lowest point 7 days has ever been on google, and youtube, and many, many long time twitch streamers have switched games. If we have to wait well into 2018, with the AI being the way it is now, this'll be a very dead game. I appreciate you guys hired more devs, but that should have been done long ago, just like Ark, the reason it's successful, they kept growing. another year + wait for an Alpha is just unacceptable, this game should be well into Beta now. I've spent a long time defending this game and the ultra slow dev of it, but I'm pretty much done. I know a lot won't care, but the hopes of a dev reading this and understanding that investment is key to a successful game, and having sold millions of copies, its not unjustified to demand it. You stop being indy, when your pockets are full. than you're a studio. Hopefully we see some actual action out of this team, or this game is dead in two years. Esp with very little content added in A17, we need less poi's and more intense development of the core game. 4 years and nowhere close to beta. Rust, a game that is horrible, has 5x the people playing it at the moment. Let's step it up guys. once again, i stand firm on saying there is NO excuse for the current AI system, which drove away all my friends that played the game since day 1. NO excuse. FIX it. A lot of other alpha devs fix and bug fix as they are building, the excuse that you'll fix them during Beta is no longer valid. that's only valid when a game spends a small amount in dev, not almost a year between major updates. *edited. put 5 years instead of 4 VERY hard to argue against this. As much as I love the Team and the game, the stagnation is real. Modding will only take you so far. Who I feel bad for are the official streamers who seemed to have been used for their intended purpose and then left without much else to do. It was initially said they would get previews and perhaps small glimpses of upcoming changes. This is initially what drove some forum-ers mad and started #streamergate. If only we had known how inconsequential they were to become I don't think anyone would have bothered to care to argue about it. There are a LOT of new survival games featuring zombies being kick started. All it takes is a hungry dev with great work ethic and someone may be able to capitalize on this games success. Then they will no longer be the standard in the industry but merely the shell with which others built THEIR success on. A game like Dead Matter if developed properly could easily catch fans of the zombie genres attention, and a voxelized medieval or gothic style game could easily attract the builders and explorers. There is always someone out there looking at what other games do and then builds on what the fans are looking for. I would hate to see another game take the throne from this one, but an update well into the New Year with so many games coming out that are similar? That is a bit risky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 I disagree; I came here to say what rdunham3 said... Basically, that under the old rules we wouldn't have even heard of this game at this stage of development... But we are playing by the new, and evolving rules, so we have to accept it for what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxTeller718 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Fine, no bugs will be fixed during beta. Happy now? =P You singled out ONE line from his otherwise spot on post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Since when does expectations of players change the by natural laws given fact that a game need XY time to be produced ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maharin Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Well, in all fairness, I'm the only one that matters. EDIT: In all fairness, people should know I'm joking with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxTeller718 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 I disagree; I came here to say what rdunham3 said... Basically, that under the old rules we wouldn't have even heard of this game at this stage of development... But we are playing by the new, and evolving rules, so we have to accept it for what it is. While this is true, under the new rules EA is a competitive market. Now companies and teams LOVE to stand behind the "Well you paid to be in on it so accept it" line but in truth once you SELL and release and outsource for a console release you are in competition with every other EA game out there, some of whom may be doing it faster and better than you are. So yes we are given a peek behind the curtain we normally would never have gotten but EA is the new standard in gaming. Everyone is doing it and it is JUST as much a market as a gold release. As a matter of fact when a game DOES go gold after being in EA for a long while no one even seems to care. Its a formality at that point. Everyone has already bought into it by that point. - - - Updated - - - Since when does expectations of players change the by natural laws given fact that a game need XY time to be produced ? Since competitive EA threw the rules out the window. We are playing by the new rules now where EA is an actual THING and it is competitive, just as competitive as actual gold releases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxTeller718 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 I have to laugh at folks who complain that alpha 16 is "so bad" and how the [early access] game is trending poorly on Google, Youtube or really anywhere. 20 years ago a game in this stage of development might get a magazine article, two if it was lucky. It would be a non-entity. You wouldn't get to see the inside of the sausage factory, for that matter they might or might not even admit to making this particular flavor of sausage. Many games got cancelled at or beyond this stage of their development cycle and nobody outside the company was the wiser. You/we are not entitled to jack squat here. They could have left us with alpha 10 for the last couple of years with no dev chatter, concept art, or even whispers of things perhaps one day to come. I personally think it was a mistake to let a16 hit the general population in the playability state it was in, although 16.4 has treated me well, it's in many ways less interesting because of the system changeouts still in progress. It'll get better once all those dangling half-connected bits get put where they belong with the missing bits attached. Most people can't handle this sausage factory view and keep expecting each alpha release to look and play like a finished game. It's mind boggling, really. I would agree, but don't you think the fact that EVERY game now a days is EA means the rules have changed? Much like DLC was NEVER a thing back in the nes days now it is standard. EA is quickly becoming a standard way to fund projects further. It isn't all about bug testing. This game and others prove some bugs aren't even worth fixing right away. The main advantage of releasing today is the early influx of cash to continue the project. It is the new way of going to investors and asking for money. As investors, and with this new attitude by the gaming industry you can't compare development from 10 years to today. If it is STILL supposed to take 10 years to fully develop a game then DON'T release to Early Access. Keep that to the Testing team. If you DO release to EA then yes you are subject to public scrutiny and competition from other EA releases in your genre. Its unavoidable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 I think the concept is new so that a lot of these companies are experimenting with what works and what doesn't. I don't think we'll know for another few years yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicketness Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 All i will say in support of 7dtd is, At least we will continue to get new content for a few more years to come maybe 10 at this rate. eve if they add more members to the team i doubt it will help any when it comes to the release dates of the new patches. i figure they want to start to shine and polish each major patch, i only been around for the last 3 years and they made huge leaps and bounds if it takes 9-18 months for each major patch i would be willing to wait. if they speed things up we get more bugs that are missed and that would make the game more unplayable then it already is. we all have to remember they are just learning this craft as they go so if and when they do start a second game we can expect a much more brisk pace since they will know what they are doing, compared to now when everything is always experimental and probably a lot of failing happening like the behemoth and zip lines. they did make the game more modifiable so rather then be butthurt and impatient just dig in and mod the game for your self to play the way you want, what we are getting is a platform to work with. in the decade to come it will be a roller coaster ride for sure but i doubt any game will be able to give us this scale of enjoyment. Nuff Said That's My Nickle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Since competitive EA threw the rules out the window. We are playing by the new rules now where EA is an actual THING and it is competitive, just as competitive as actual gold releases. So you wish that TFP hurry and produce half-baked stuff like other "Gold" studios all the years (during we the playerbase, asked for the opposite ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gronk Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 AI is arguably the hardest part of game development... doubly so in a voxel environment. A lot of voxel games don't even bother with NPC's and those that do have a lot of difficulty with it. I'm entirely unsurprised someone with experience in mecanim and AI has been brought on board to do it. Be patient, it'll take a while but it'll be worth it. I'd say around March for the Z's to be completely ported over to a new system and another 3-6 months after that for the bandits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaliciousMeatloaf Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Just to point out that A16 is trending down to the lowest point 7 days has ever been on google, and youtube, and many, many long time twitch streamers have switched games. If we have to wait well into 2018, with the AI being the way it is now, this'll be a very dead game. I appreciate you guys hired more devs, but that should have been done long ago, just like Ark, the reason it's successful, they kept growing. another year + wait for an Alpha is just unacceptable, this game should be well into Beta now. I've spent a long time defending this game and the ultra slow dev of it, but I'm pretty much done. I know a lot won't care, but the hopes of a dev reading this and understanding that investment is key to a successful game, and having sold millions of copies, its not unjustified to demand it. You stop being indy, when your pockets are full. than you're a studio. Hopefully we see some actual action out of this team, or this game is dead in two years. Esp with very little content added in A17, we need less poi's and more intense development of the core game. 4 years and nowhere close to beta. Rust, a game that is horrible, has 5x the people playing it at the moment. Let's step it up guys. once again, i stand firm on saying there is NO excuse for the current AI system, which drove away all my friends that played the game since day 1. NO excuse. FIX it. A lot of other alpha devs fix and bug fix as they are building, the excuse that you'll fix them during Beta is no longer valid. that's only valid when a game spends a small amount in dev, not almost a year between major updates. *edited. put 5 years instead of 4 There is a problem with this line of thought. You've done all there is to do in the game several times over I'm sure. The gameplay time for a new player is going to be much longer. The game is in alpha state, not gold, a number of people don't buy a game until it's done, period. Those are sales later. Why should the devs worry about CCU? Concurrent users playing don't make them anything since it's SP/CoOp based. Google's search trends don't mean squat either; that's general statistics and doesn't reflect interest in a topic, only NEW interest in a topic. Have you ever worked on a game before? Or are you just going by how quick other devs do it? Basically 7 Days has hit that point where people that have been around a while want all of the rest of the game NOW. That's not possible. Regardless of your personal bar that you set on EA titles and such, that's all it is, your personal bar. Also, one does not stop being indy when their pockets are "full". Indie companies aren't owned by a publisher, that's what indie means, regardless of your thoughts on the definition of it. Lastly, why don't you cool it on the demanding tone. Who the hell are you to talk to them like they messed up your burger? I'm pretty sure these folks are more well learned than a lot of people here. Show some respect. Complaints are fine, but dude, your tone is that of a condescending jerk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 I have faith. I ain't skeered. I give the pimps a lot of crap, they ain't perfect, but it'll work out in the end. Or it won't. At 1500+ hrs I'm fine either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Deluxe Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 7D2D is far away from perfect. But better than the most games i know. So dear other players, understand what EA means. It means Early access, and even if TFP will go gold with 7D2D much sooner. There is nothing wrong if a Early access game need 10 years to be developed. Thinking different only shows that the person have not understand what EA means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicketness Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 I have faith. I ain't skeered. I give the pimps a lot of crap, they ain't perfect, but it'll work out in the end. Or it won't. At 1500+ hrs I'm fine either way. Thats it lol what kinda guppycurian forum whore are you i have double that and probably twice the noobycurian game whore your are > 2,601 hrs on record last played on 8 Dec 7 Days to Die Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaxTeller718 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 So you wish that TFP hurry and produce half-baked stuff like other "Gold" studios all the years (during we the playerbase, asked for the opposite ?) No. I wish that hiring 10 more people MAYBE would increase productivity, which it may very well have. I was pointing out the fact that it needs to be expected people will be upset at the release schedule when others in the industry are producing updates at a much quicker pace. Its not as if these Alpha releases are bug free and perfect. There ARE other companies who produce content every month or so with some pretty big content drops. Games like Miscreated, Empyrion, Rust, Citadel all have frequent updates and yes they have their bugs, but are you going to try and say that when an Alpha releases it does NOT have bugs? Difference here is content every 60 days vs content once a year. I may be able to handle that with ease because I'm not impatient, but I DO understand others that are confused by this. - - - Updated - - - I have faith. I ain't skeered. I give the pimps a lot of crap, they ain't perfect, but it'll work out in the end. Or it won't. At 1500+ hrs I'm fine either way. 1500? NOW my day is ruined.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maharin Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 I have faith. I ain't skeered. I give the pimps a lot of crap, they ain't perfect, but it'll work out in the end. Or it won't. At 1500+ hrs I'm fine either way. Is that counting your hours on the forum, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tin Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 I actually have a.. 'few' EA games I'm actually seeing developers trend towards more rapid releases to "Unstable/Experimental" builds, Unstable as in really unstable and their "Stable" builds becoming more unstable. So what I'm seeing is less polished builds all around. Pretty OK with how TFP are going about it tbh. Would like more interaction but meh it's fine. Will see how it goes with less chatter from them then before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SylenThunder Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Is that counting your hours on the forum, too? We don't have the quantum tech required to measure that yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guppycur Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 We don't have the quantum tech required to measure that yet. I did some maths earlier, I'm 2%+ of the entire forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wicketness Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 We don't have the quantum tech required to measure that yet. please don't try to ever we will all die and be turned into zombies from just the attempt it is not and never was possible to measure that in any world universe or dimension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenophobed44 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Fine, no bugs will be fixed during beta. Happy now? =P No, not really. I mean at least the more major bugs like minibikes falling through worlds and farming lag can be extremely game breaking. Please entrust faith in yourself and your team. You've had a very long development phase but the mere prospect of you optimizing your game for 2017 unity like the first page says means a lot of lag issues should clear up. Super looking forward to A17 done right...... Not A17 pushed out and then patched 3 days later because it was too buggy, the back to back wipes would be disgusting to deal with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouch Quit It Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 which? Take your pick........ I think the LOOOOOOooong time btween releases is hurting the game...I know quite a few people who just stopped playing because of a variety of factors that haven't been fixed or implemented or dropped. They are tired of not having complete systems that work...temperature, AI, vehicles(minibike disappearances), etc. But mostly because of NO mid to late game challenge. They are tired of constantly starting over, everytime they get to a certain point in game. The proverbial wall. I agree with them. They have gone the way of Mods to prolong the gameplay, but it is getting to the same point there as well...thus they are leaving for other games..it sucks but that's life...If you are bored with a game...you move on. Many have come back after 1 or 2 alphas to see what improvements have been made only to get discouraged after they find out that some of the reasons they stopped playing are still in place. Temperature has been broken for 3-4 alphas and hasn't been touched since implementation. I have faith...but it is faltering....especially when you see games on the horizon or that are out, and putting out updates monthly or every few months compared to yearly. For example, the game is being optimized for Unity 2017. Agreed..AWESOME for the game...however this will be the 2nd major optimization of the game, so basically a few things will be added however none of the bug/optimizatons of broken systems will be fixed. I know ..its an alpha. I have 2000+ hour in game and modding.I have played since A5 or A6..im still here , but some people don't have the same dedication or patience. Put out a small patch halfway through the Alpha development....Put the new POIs out when done....throw people a bone...POI's are not affecting the new systems being worked on. Many of the new games ARE NOT voxel based with a fully a destructible environment ...I get that...but the challenges are there..I would love to try a game with limited underground play and get larger hordes...an option...people want options and challenges. Its not the game..but it's the game. Ouch MTFGA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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