Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Callum123456789]

Definitely sounds like the survival feeling of 7dtd is coming back from what I have heard about the water change where the early days were actually a struggle 

[RipClaw]

35 minutes ago, Callum123456789 said:

This sounds about 30x more balanced than what it currently is in a20 just curious how would you say this change has effected you in gameplay compared to a20?

I am curious. How do you quantify balancing ?

 

By the way, you need more than just a few Forge Ahead magazines to build the dew collector and that's where the catch is for some players. To build the dew collector you need a filter that you can only buy from the trader. So if a player plays without a trader, he will never be able to build a dew collector.

 

[Callum123456789]

1 minute ago, RipClaw said:

I am curious. How do you quantify balancing ?

 

By the way, you need more than just a few Forge Ahead magazines to build the dew collector and that's where the catch is for some players. To build the dew collector you need a filter that you can only buy from the trader. So if a player plays without a trader, he will never be able to build a dew collector.

 

Didn't swanchz say that the water filter is a rare drop in loot? Also water hasn't ever been balanced in 7dtd properly atleast well untill now because no matter what your going to have a lot of water eventually but now we have to actually work hard for that sustainable source of water rather than craft forge smelt glass jars and boil em up like now we have to find these materials that are required to craft them which adds another layer of difficulty to prevent you from mass producing water so quickly 

[Roland]

 

4 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

So if a player plays without a trader, he will never be able to build a dew collector.

 

On 7/25/2022 at 5:57 AM, schwanz9000 said:

They are a rare loot drop, quest reward, or trader purchase. Not craftable.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Roland (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

6 minutes ago, Callum123456789 said:

Didn't swanchz say that the water filter is a rare drop in loot?

I must have missed that info then. My last information was that it can only be bought.

[Laz Man]

No Trader playstyles will still work.  They will just have a more challenging time since there only source for the water filter is a rare drop.

 

However, I don't see a problem with this.  Most people I know (including myself) who like to do no trader playthroughs, do it for a more challenging / survival focused experienced. (E.g No quest rewards, no POI resetting, etc.)

 

 

[FranticDan]

1 hour ago, Laz Man said:

No Trader playstyles will still work.  They will just have a more challenging time since there only source for the water filter is a rare drop.

 

However, I don't see a problem with this.  Most people I know (including myself) who like to do no trader playthroughs, do it for a more challenging / survival focused experienced. (E.g No quest rewards, no POI resetting, etc.)

If it's not too much work, and hasn't been added already, I'd like to see a toggle option in the map generator for "No Traders", "One Central Trader", "Default"

Personally I can remove traders from the map manually be editing the prefabs xml for the generated map, but this will help those who don't know how to mod, 

[vergilsparda]

On 7/25/2022 at 9:07 AM, schwanz9000 said:

Cans are gone too.

 

On 7/25/2022 at 10:34 AM, Roland said:

Empty cans have also been removed.

 

😨...b....but... but I'm gonna lose so much scrap iron... how could u do this 2 me specifically?? (/j)

 

On 7/25/2022 at 9:48 AM, RipClaw said:

This is just my current strategy because I'm doing a run with agility instead of strength for a change. I also do a lot of melee but my favorite is building bases with electric traps.

 

off topic I know, feel free to move this Roland, but @JaWoodle's crawling base for alpha 20 is the literal GOAT. Just make sure the smallest gap is 1 1/2 blocks tall, not all the way to 1, or else the zombies move too slowly through the crawling bit and get mad about it. It's my go-to for melee rn. (also, you can 100% add traps to the sides of the base building and they'll work, like electric fences and dart traps)

 

oh, and to keep it on topic, any plans to adjust trash pile loot tables? I feel like currently you get way too many resources in trash, to the point where it's not an issue either. Specifically brass and brass items (unless those are being removed in a21 too?). I'm sitting on over a full stack of brass from looting/scrapping alone (no scrapping casings or buying from trader) on day 7 with default loot probability. Granted I haven't smelted it all down yet to make casings because I have yet to find the forge schematic (help.jpg), but still. That feels like a lot of brass, and it completely outweighs my lead at this point, even though lead is pretty common (I think I'm around ~600 lead in total? More or less?). It barely ranks under my scrap iron (also no mining/buying, only looting/scrapping).

[maxousara]

5 hours ago, Roland said:

 

 

I like it. I like that I am drinking murky water at times in the beginning. I like building the dew collectors. They are a nice new objective that competes with all the other start of game objectives you have. Before when I'd open a cupboard in a some POI and there would be pure water inside I wouldn't even think about it as I pressed R to auto loot the cabinet and add that drinkable water to the stack already in my inventory. Now it feels great to loot pure water from the dew collector you built.

 

The removed empty jars, the dew collectors, the new magazine learn to craft by looting all combine to make the experience fun and interesting. As veteran player it did take some adaptation on my part but it is fun. I doubt simply adjusting stack limits and recipe costs would have had the same effect these changes have had. I understand that fun is subjective, though, and not everyone will like the change and I'm sure we will hear some feedback on it after experimental hits. But I think we will get a lot of positive feedback about the changes as well.

 

Yeah its sure not everyone Will be positive with the a21 change but me i love the direction this game takes. Continue like that thefunpimps.

[Blake_]

5 hours ago, Laz Man said:

No Trader playstyles will still work.  They will just have a more challenging time since there only source for the water filter is a rare drop.

 

However, I don't see a problem with this.  Most people I know (including myself) who like to do no trader playthroughs, do it for a more challenging / survival focused experienced. (E.g No quest rewards, no POI resetting, etc.)

 

 

Are solar cells able to be found in loot? Are there special containers for that?

And what if there are no POI ( the option is available), we will not get everything and some  items will be locked to the player. Not many, mind you, as I believe that eventually, in future alphas we could get access to everything the longer we play (event system, etc).

[Astronomical]

On 7/25/2022 at 9:07 AM, schwanz9000 said:

Cans are gone too.

 

On 7/25/2022 at 12:42 PM, BFT2020 said:

Actually a little sad to hear those are gone.  I try to see how long I can go without having to create mines for materials based on either gathering materials through looting /scalvaging or just taking 1-2 layers off of the top (like the ore nodes on top or rocks, or digging two layers down in the ground).  Those cans were a nice source of scrap iron for me.

 

I kind of agree with this. I also like to gather as much basic resources as possible from looting in the early game.

 

Might it be better to convert empty cans into an unusable bonus resource item like door knobs for brass or fishing weights for lead?

[Roland]

1 hour ago, Astronomical said:

 

 

I kind of agree with this. I also like to gather as much basic resources as possible from looting in the early game.

 

Might it be better to convert empty cans into an unusable bonus resource item like door knobs for brass or fishing weights for lead?

 

Well cans aren't completely gone... There is a new resource block like the blue block full of cobblestone and the cardboard block full of paper and the cement pallet full of ...ah...cement. There is now a block that looks like a crushed block of tin cans from a recycle company and it gives iron. So empty cans converted into iron gameplay still exists in A21.

[Melange]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

There is now a block that looks like a crushed block of tin cans from a recycle company and it gives iron

I have seen those blocks in A20. But I recall only one POI that has a few of them. Hoping they'll be spread out over the map in A21. Well, in the towns and cities anyways. Hmmm, perhaps there's a new recycling center kind of POI? Paper, iron, plastic to be had? No jars though. No no no 🤣

Edited July 27, 2022 by Melange
fat fingers on the keyboard lol (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

On 7/25/2022 at 3:07 PM, schwanz9000 said:

Cans are gone too.

And what does the recipe for oil look like then ? Do you then use scrap metal instead of an empty can or is the oil shale simply converted into oil ?

 

[Jugom]

I think they said all the recipes would be the same except no cans and no jars

[Callum123456789]

I heard before that molotovs aren't affected by the demolitions expert damage increases are there plans to change that so it does in a21 or are they being left the same?

And sorry for the post spam the general rule of city and town generation in thr current alpha isn't allowed to cross biomes are there plans to change that? If so that would allow people to generate mega cities if they wanted I would look how to do it myself but I feel its embedded in how rwg works and not just the xml files because when I heard in a21 we can generate 100% of a biome does that then mean we can ignore the biome line for huge city generation? So many questions i can't wait to find out lmao i have so many more on my mind I can't wait to sink my teeth into the sweet a21 goodness!!

2 hours ago, Melange said:

I have seen those blocks in A20. But I recall only one POI that has a few of them. Hoping they'll be spread out over the map in A21. Well, in the towns and cities anyways. Hmmm, perhaps there's a new recycling center kind of POI? Paper, iron, plastic to be had? No jars though. No no no 🤣

Oh yeah that like countrytown house with the hazmat guys and construction? workers yep I recall that not sure it's poi tag but I know what you mean for definitely 

[Jost Amman]

45 minutes ago, Callum123456789 said:

I heard before that molotovs aren't affected by the demolitions expert damage increases are there plans to change that so it does in a21 or are they being left the same?

+1 to this!

 

What you ask has always made sense, but for some reason it's been always left alone.  I remember someone saying that you already put your expertise in the crafting, but IMO a "demo-man" should also know how to better use explosives to get better/maximum results.

[Doomofman]

Maybe this was answered before and I missed it but...

 

With the rework of water blocks into voxels and whatever other stuff occurred around that. Do bodies of water still look the same? As in, if you had a screenshot of a lake from A20 and A21 side by side could you tell the difference? Or is it just a purely coding change?

[unholyjoe]

17 minutes ago, Doomofman said:

Maybe this was answered before and I missed it but...

 

With the rework of water blocks into voxels and whatever other stuff occurred around that. Do bodies of water still look the same? As in, if you had a screenshot of a lake from A20 and A21 side by side could you tell the difference? Or is it just a purely coding change?

no you most likely will not see a difference as the water appearance itself was not changed. most work is to affect performance.

 

i have a screen shot from both alphas and the difference you see is environmental lighting and shader tweaks/adjustments.

 

also... water is still WIP and no there are no fish, no large sea monsters or crocodiles.

 

nothing revealing in the a21 screen shot so no need to dissect it

 

[Doomofman]

14 minutes ago, unholyjoe said:

no you most likely will not see a difference as the water appearance itself was not changed. most work is to affect performance.

 

i have a screen shot from both alphas and the difference you see is environmental lighting and shader tweaks/adjustments.

 

also... water is still WIP and no there are no fish, no large sea monsters or crocodiles.

 

nothing revealing in the a21 screen shot so no need to dissect it

 

 

A more thorough answer than I could have expected. Appreciate the effort Joe

[Jost Amman]

18 minutes ago, unholyjoe said:

no you most likely will not see a difference as the water appearance itself was not changed. most work is to affect performance.

 

i have a screen shot from both alphas and the difference you see is environmental lighting and shader tweaks/adjustments.

 

also... water is still WIP and no there are no fish, no large sea monsters or crocodiles.

 

nothing revealing in the a21 screen shot so no need to dissect it

 

Wait! What's that shadow lurking just under the water surface? 

[Deadfordays]

So this could be an uninformed question on my part, however, I'll ask anyways...

I see a lot of requests for changing loot tables in things like cabinets and trash, etc. to make the game more of a challenge. I was pretty sure, but not 100%, that changing the difficulty only effects things like zombie speeds and how many actually spawn? This doesn't effect loot tables or vending machine amounts, traders, etc...? If so, is there maybe a way, in order to appease some of the veteran players, to say change these values based on difficulty? So say, you choose "Survivalist", this would then set loot tables much lower including higher level loot becoming very rare. Also effecting trader stock levels or even restock days going half as often. Trash piles, cupboards, boxes, etc. would all have much lower amounts of loot, prices in machines increase, something to that affect?  (Just throwing out my lack of knowledge..!)

[canadianbluebeer]

Pure mineral water is what I meant.

 

As long as that's still in (for A21), then okee dokee.

 

 

[Fanatical_Meat]

1 hour ago, unholyjoe said:

no you most likely will not see a difference as the water appearance itself was not changed. most work is to affect performance.

 

i have a screen shot from both alphas and the difference you see is environmental lighting and shader tweaks/adjustments.

 

also... water is still WIP and no there are no fish, no large sea monsters or crocodiles.

 

nothing revealing in the a21 screen shot so no need to dissect it

 

What’s going on with the trees either moving or growing in that small period of time?

[FranticDan]

48 minutes ago, Deadfordays said:

So this could be an uninformed question on my part, however, I'll ask anyways...

I see a lot of requests for changing loot tables in things like cabinets and trash, etc. to make the game more of a challenge. I was pretty sure, but not 100%, that changing the difficulty only effects things like zombie speeds and how many actually spawn? This doesn't effect loot tables or vending machine amounts, traders, etc...? If so, is there maybe a way, in order to appease some of the veteran players, to say change these values based on difficulty? So say, you choose "Survivalist", this would then set loot tables much lower including higher level loot becoming very rare. Also effecting trader stock levels or even restock days going half as often. Trash piles, cupboards, boxes, etc. would all have much lower amounts of loot, prices in machines increase, something to that affect?  (Just throwing out my lack of knowledge..!)

That's what the Loot% settings is for.

However, unfortunately, that doesn't affect the Harvest% from wrenching, mining, woodchopping and animal harvests.

Having a Harvest% setting would go hand-in-hand with the current Loot% setting