Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Jost Amman]

5 minutes ago, Annihilatorza said:

For me, secret stash should be hidden behind your trader level once you unlock the next trader do you get access to the SS but it's also tied to your gamestage and or LBR level.

 

Currently it's just button click to get access to it and nothing secret about it

That's actually a great idea, IMO! 

 

The Secret Stash should only be available after you complete at least Tier 1 of the trader quests.

I would even go as far as to say the level of Secret Stash you can access should go hand in hand with the level of job tiers you've completed for the trader!

 

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Jost Amman (see edit history)

[Blake_]

@faatal, what have you guys decided about nerd poling? Will you impede the placing of frames while jumping/falling or something related to the LCB like Rick mentioned in the last interview?

 

As a veteran, I use it a lot, and I must say that I seldom die and it's mostly because of the wood frame gods, so maybe it's not that fun to not struggle as intended.

Thanks in advance.

[Annihilatorza]

15 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

That's actually a great idea, IMO! 

 

The Secret Stash should only be available after you complete at least Tier 1 of the trader quests.

I would even go as far as to say the level of Secret Stash you can access should go hand in hand with the level of job tiers you've completed for the trader!

 

 

Exactly what I was thinking and when move to the new trader. You don't get access to the SS since the trader does not know you and you have to build that level of trust again.

8 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

@faatal, what have you guys decided about nerd poling? Will you impede the placing of frames while jumping/falling or something related to the LCB like Rick mentioned in the last interview?

 

As a veteran, I use it a lot, and I must say that I seldom die and it's mostly because of the wood frame gods, so maybe it's not that fun to not struggle as intended.

Thanks in advance.

In the interview that did mentioned that and I would not surprised if they block nerd polling in and around POI.

[RipClaw]

2 hours ago, Outlaw_187 said:

True but they could just splice this in with the "regular" stash. The secret stash category is simply another click, nothing more. 

Well, in terms of code, it's a little different. While the regular stash is independent of Better Barter, the secret stash changes with Better Barter.

If they want to splice the goods from the secret stash into the regular stash, they would have to define it as additional goods that are only visible if you have the corresponding level in Better Barter.

54 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

That's actually a great idea, IMO! 

 

The Secret Stash should only be available after you complete at least Tier 1 of the trader quests.

I would even go as far as to say the level of Secret Stash you can access should go hand in hand with the level of job tiers you've completed for the trader!

Sounds like a lot of grind to me. You would have to complete 7 jobs per level at every trader. If the traders are far away from each other then you either have to build an outpost in each city or travel long distances.

[Jost Amman]

28 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

Sounds like a lot of grind to me. You would have to complete 7 jobs per level at every trader. If the traders are far away from each other then you either have to build an outpost in each city or travel long distances.

Yeah, I get that, but haven't we been complaining about traders being OP all the time?

Well, IMO, this goes in that direction (making traders less OP).

[RipClaw]

56 minutes ago, Annihilatorza said:

In the interview that did mentioned that and I would not surprised if they block nerd polling in and around POI.

I don't see the point. We now have ladders that can be picked up again.

 

Nerdpoling is not even necessary at the larger POIs to get to the main loot. Most of the time there is an elevator shaft or stairwell that leads up to the top that is meant as a quick way out. You just have to replace missing stairs or ladder rungs.

[RipClaw]

3 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Yeah, I get that, but haven't we been complaining about traders being OP all the time?

Well, IMO, this goes in that direction (making traders less OP).

Traders are OP because they sell items that are much better than what you can find or craft. This is supposed to change in A21 anyway. According to what was said in the interview, they should only sell items that are a bit better than what you can craft or find.

 

I would rather see your suggestion in the context of the factions that are also mentioned in the interview. Each trader could belong to a different faction and you have to complete tasks to earn their trust.

[Annihilatorza]

10 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

Traders are OP because they sell items that are much better than what you can find or craft. This is supposed to change in A21 anyway. According to what was said in the interview, they should only sell items that are a bit better than what you can craft or find.

 

I would rather see your suggestion in the context of the factions that are also mentioned in the interview. Each trader could belong to a different faction and you have to complete tasks to earn their trust.

Well since bandits are not coming in A21, I don't know if they will do the factions for the traders but maybe @Roland or @faatal will give us a tidbit.

 

I don't mind either way for nerd polling nearly impossible to control in free building game, what could happen is the loot rooms are locked behind powered doors/environmental hazards and moved deep inside the POI.

 

LIke water works had the steel door added that is powered.

[Vedui]

4 hours ago, Annihilatorza said:

 

In the interview that did mentioned that and I would not surprised if they block nerd polling in and around POI.

 

It might be nice to have nerdpoling blocked during active quests, AND have POI's only with normal loot until a quest starts at which point the "quest" loot is generated ... so while there might be some normal crates, there won't be any quest loot unless you're actually doing a quest. Since there are already provisions for the courier satchel, this should be a possibility to extend. And likewise, if the quest fails for all involved due to dying (or exceeding x hours/days in game) the quest loot also vanishes. I think tying the quest loot chest to individual also stops the current problem where a party of 5 goes into a POI, and 4 go through the dungeon crawl and the 5th nerdpoles up and "steals" all the end loot making for much less fun experience by the party.

[Guppycur]

Traders sell stuff to make money.  The entire concept of a "Secret Stash" is an incredibly gamey and stupid way to slow progression.  

[Laz Man]

I'm all for reducing loot room cheesing, however,  if anything more is done about it, it hopefully shouldn't nerf off quest exploration.

[Diragor]

45 minutes ago, Vedui said:

 

It might be nice to have nerdpoling blocked during active quests, AND have POI's only with normal loot until a quest starts at which point the "quest" loot is generated ... so while there might be some normal crates, there won't be any quest loot unless you're actually doing a quest. Since there are already provisions for the courier satchel, this should be a possibility to extend. And likewise, if the quest fails for all involved due to dying (or exceeding x hours/days in game) the quest loot also vanishes. I think tying the quest loot chest to individual also stops the current problem where a party of 5 goes into a POI, and 4 go through the dungeon crawl and the 5th nerdpoles up and "steals" all the end loot making for much less fun experience by the party.

For People who play without Trader this would be horrible so only as an on/off option

I never used Nerpoling anyway so I don't mind it's existence

Edited November 7, 2022 by Diragor (see edit history)

[Catdaddy]

1 hour ago, Vedui said:

It might be nice to have nerdpoling blocked during active quests, AND have POI's only with normal loot until a quest starts at which point the "quest" loot is generated ... so while there might be some normal crates, there won't be any quest loot unless you're actually doing a quest.

 

I like this idea. It would make the double-dip "exploit" less impactful. I have mostly broken myself from defensive nerdpoling by carrying ladder shapes instead of frames, but I do still shortcut to the loot regularly.

 

In my perfect world, quests would be proximity-based, with the Beacon appearing when I enter the grounds. There would always be the normal cabinet stuff inside, but there would be no "Loot" unless I accept the quest. Quests would be "one-and-done" by default. I would advance by clearing the quest POIs in the area, which I would have to discover by actually exploring. Traders would just be the place to trade found items for goods and services. Our choice of trader could play into the Reputation system, with different traders working for the various bosses...but now I have fallen down the rabbit hole again, sorry. Join me, it is fun in here. Bunnies. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Catdaddy (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

51 minutes ago, Vedui said:

It might be nice to have nerdpoling blocked during active quests, AND have POI's only with normal loot until a quest starts at which point the "quest" loot is generated ... so while there might be some normal crates, there won't be any quest loot unless you're actually doing a quest. Since there are already provisions for the courier satchel, this should be a possibility to extend. And likewise, if the quest fails for all involved due to dying (or exceeding x hours/days in game) the quest loot also vanishes.

I don't see much difference between nerdpoling and putting a ladder on the outside of the building. Besides, when you're in the wasteland, you like to have a way out when a zombie bear gets the idea to say hello. Happend to me yesterday in a Bob's Boars.

 

As for the quest loot, the items would have to be tagged so that they disappear from the inventory if the quest fails.

[meganoth]

59 minutes ago, Vedui said:

 

It might be nice to have nerdpoling blocked during active quests, AND have POI's only with normal loot until a quest starts at which point the "quest" loot is generated ... so while there might be some normal crates, there won't be any quest loot unless you're actually doing a quest. Since there are already provisions for the courier satchel, this should be a possibility to extend. And likewise, if the quest fails for all involved due to dying (or exceeding x hours/days in game) the quest loot also vanishes. I think tying the quest loot chest to individual also stops the current problem where a party of 5 goes into a POI, and 4 go through the dungeon crawl and the 5th nerdpoles up and "steals" all the end loot making for much less fun experience by the party.

 

After that the 5th player should never get an invitation to join another quest until he says sorry 4 times and promises to never do it again. Anyway. the big giveaway lottery is when everyone get the quest reward from the trader and this already makes co-op groups OP compared to SP.

 

[Uncle Al]

1 hour ago, Laz Man said:

I'm all for reducing loot room cheesing, however,  if anything more is done about it, it hopefully shouldn't nerf off quest exploration.

I believe this is a key point.

 

The issue isn't a quest one at all, it's that some POIs of the same tier have vastly different risk/reward ratios if the loot room is too easily accessible.

 

I appreciate the balancing of risk/reward while still promoting smart strategies that allow getting decent loot out of a POI without requiring pretty much a clear every time.

 

If the risk/reward was well balanced for different types of foray (e.g. total clear, surgical strike, maybe something in between for the largest POIs) so that a reasonable effort (in terms of time and zombie kills) had to be spent to achieve success, that would also make things like T5 fetch quests an option. I totally see why they're not with the current setup.

 

On that note, variable rewards in terms of trader progression for different quest types would be fantastic. Currently fetch and fetch clear both score 'reputation points' = POI tier while being wildly different in resources invested to complete.

 

I have a feeling this is stuff you folks are already looking at as a part of the factions, reputation system and whatnot slated for later alphas.

[meilodasreh]

1 hour ago, Catdaddy said:

In my perfect world, quests would be proximity-based, with the Beacon appearing when I enter the grounds. There would always be the normal cabinet stuff inside, but there would be no "Loot" unless I accept the quest. Quests would be "one-and-done" by default.

Can't see how that could be a thing, especially in MP with no co-op.

Every single "normal world poi" would have no good final loot, but only when you get it active as a quest.

So no normal day to day raids possible, you're bound to trader quests when you want the good stuff.

 

And for the "anti-nerdpoling initiative":

I guess there will always be some possibilitiy to cheese in a fully destructible (and build-everywhere) world, and whatever mechanics to counter that, would maybe feel more cheesy than to actually leave it like it is now.

Let those double-dip guys have their fun if they want to, because you would kill the fun for the majority who doesn't use exploits when you introduce more restrictions.

 

I would not want those artificial limitations that you describe, cause I like the freedom of choice the game has to offer.

[Gronal]

In the very beginning of A21 announcements, I jumped on the negativity bandwagon. I have over 2k hours in the game and have played since A16. I thought some of the changes sounded like a bad idea on paper, so I joined in with the negativity. 
However since I've tried to hold off any judgement of the new mechanics until I can see how they feel myself, I'm actually a lot more optimistic about A21. The kneejerk reactions from some are extremely strong, and I would urge people to take a step back and just wait to see how the game actually plays.

[unholyjoe]

2 hours ago, RipClaw said:

I don't see much difference between nerdpoling and putting a ladder on the outside of the building.

precisely, but people want to control what everyone else is doing.

 

i use the ladders now and beings that they are in the shape menu... i can pick them up and use them else where just like the wood frames. so nothing gets accomplished by stopping the so called nerd polling with blocks to get to a level you need to get to.

 

 

oh and before the criticizers attack... "NO I do not use that as an exploit" to get to loot rooms. i actually enjoy the game. but i use nerd polling and ladders for building to which some people seem to want to stop because of others using them for exploiting... thats something that will always happen in games.

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, Gronal said:

In the very beginning of A21 announcements, I jumped on the negativity bandwagon. I have over 2k hours in the game and have played since A16. I thought some of the changes sounded like a bad idea on paper, so I joined in with the negativity. 
However since I've tried to hold off any judgement of the new mechanics until I can see how they feel myself, I'm actually a lot more optimistic about A21. The kneejerk reactions from some are extremely strong, and I would urge people to take a step back and just wait to see how the game actually plays.

trust me, while some aspects i didnt like at first ... you do get used to them and before you know it, you are getting into the game again and not even thinking about it... i am glad i dont have to waste time with jars and with 2 of us playing, 2 dew collectors is very sufficient and easy going nomads.

Edited November 7, 2022 by unholyjoe (see edit history)

[meilodasreh]

25 minutes ago, unholyjoe said:

trust me, while some aspects i didnt like at first ... you do get used to them and before you know it, you are getting into the game again and not even thinking about it... i am glad i dont have to waste time with jars and with 2 of us playing, 2 dew collectors is very sufficient and easy going nomads.

The only thing I slowly start to grow negative towards is all you QA and forum mod guys being such a tease like "oh I would never go back to A20 now that I play/test/know A21 all the time"

Yeah thx, very kind of you for letting us know.

Really, I'm serious.

Thank you so much.

 

...maybe I'm not solely thankful but also a bit

Spoiler

jealous!

,if you didn't recognize it between the lines

 

😀

Edited November 7, 2022 by meilodasreh (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

20 minutes ago, unholyjoe said:

trust me, while some aspects i didnt like at first ... you do get used to them and before you know it, you are getting into the game again and not even thinking about it... i am glad i dont have to waste time with jars and with 2 of us playing, 2 dew collectors is very sufficient and easy going nomads.

I have adapted to quite a bit and A21 will probably be no exception. I'll probably end up with a big garden with a farm of dew collectors on top.

 

I would be more interested in the balancing of the magazines. As someone who prefers to gather resources or build rather than loot, I hope the balancing is not based on someone who loots 7 days a week. If I can get a crucible and a T2 weapon before I reach gamestage 150 with 3-4 days of looting per week, I'm happy.

[Robbing Zombie]

Can we have red curtains, or the possibility to use dye in furniture and curtains? I got this certain room to decorate at my base...

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Robbing Zombie (see edit history)

[Laz Man]

1 hour ago, meilodasreh said:

The only thing I slowly start to grow negative towards is all you QA and forum mod guys being such a tease like "oh I would never go back to A20 now that I play/test/know A21 all the time"

Yeah thx, very kind of you for letting us know.

Really, I'm serious.

Thank you so much.

 

...maybe I'm not solely thankful but also a bit

  Reveal hidden contents

jealous!

,if you didn't recognize it between the lines

 

😀

 

He forgot to mention that save games are often broken so restarting happens often.  Also, POIs are still being changed / updated every build so it's far from the relatively uninterrupted enjoyable state you guys are use to.

[wolfbain5]

i personally wouldn't want to see the end of nerdpoling. I use it to get steel from telephone pole wrenching. now we could use ladders to get up there. but the frames block is glitchy. if you are full and the frame shape isnt on the exact wood block frame shape, it wont pick up the ladder shape. and that gets annoying. I prefer fun to small annoyances. I also use nerd poling while mining to start the main shaft, and at times, yes, that includes within range of a prefab.

Edited November 7, 2022 by wolfbain5 (see edit history)

[meilodasreh]

21 minutes ago, wolfbain5 said:

i personally wouldn't want to see the end of nerdpoling. I use it to get steel from telephone pole wrenching. now we could use ladders to get up there. but the frames block is glitchy. if you are full and the frame shape isnt on the exact wood block frame shape, it wont pick up the ladder shape. and that gets annoying. I prefer fun to small annoyances. I also use nerd poling while mining to start the main shaft, and at times, yes, that includes within range of a prefab.

wow, so you are using a known-to-be-cheesy game mechanics exploit to get yourself a resource that you are not supposed to have early game?

You little progression-skipping telephone-pole-nerd-poling steel stealer!

shame on you, nemesis of madmole!!!