Please stop trying to tell us how to play

[Desmondbratcat]

I am a long time player, I have thousands of hours invested in this game and that's because I love it.  I love what you guys are doing with the scenery, textures, roads, cities, POI's, you have made a fantastic game. 

Having said that, I get very frustrated with being forced into a certain play or build style because you guys don't like the way I do things.  You give me these tools and then you try and dictate how to use them.  I'm pretty sure you already know what I'm talking about, the no more building underground, the block strength being changed on some blocks, the farming, the zombie pathing - please, stop stuffing around with this stuff.  If I want to build a base underground out of poles that is my decision, it is not for you to decide that is not how I should play, I will play how I want to play and if I can't then I will look around and find something that I can.  There are many other things you guys can stuff around with for example fix the blocks and items that go invisible.  Sort out the optimisation.  Fix the stability issue.  Get the story line going.  There are many things you could be getting on with without annoying me by telling me how I should build and play the game.  Honestly guys, with the current world situation and our governments telling us what to do and how to do it how about you give us a break and just let us play how we want to play, not how you want us to play.  I don't know how to make this any clearer - just please stop.

[Tmodloader]

8 minutes ago, Desmondbratcat said:

the no more building underground

I am confused, I have an underground base in my current game in A20, that doesn't seem to be removed. Maybe you should try playing, I think you're on tilt from reading some patchnote or something that doesn't mean what you think it means. 

 

I do agree with you on the real life situation, but I believe in this game currently it's tilt making you feel like you can't play how you want. Give it a shot doing exactly as you want and all those things are still there.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Tmodloader (see edit history)

[Ray Garraty]

 

[Colin248]

i would like to point out, as a game designer, its up to you to figure out how to counter what players are going to do. otherwise the game becomes too easy. 

 

deep rocks my fave example of this. in the early days, bunkering was a tactic where you dug a tunnel to funnel the enemies into, so you could murderize everything that enters. its still effective, but the devs made various foes that can now dig. making it so you cant just dig a hole, seal it and stay safe. 

 

the devs saw the strat, and instead of removeing it, simply counterd it. 

[Laz Man]

Leave the politics at the door please.  Also, the game is an early access, things will continue to change from Alpha to Alpha until the game is complete.

 

As much as some people would like to think, the devs are not targeting players looking to ruin their fun.  Bugs will arise and balancing is ongoing.

[ElCabong]

If you're going to all that effort by digging an underground base to escape hord night, just turn it off.

 

The only thing I'm doing different is my base doesn't have a front door.  Otherwise I build the same way. 

 

The only thing they've done that I strongly disagree with is they made the workstation way more difficult to come by. After you get your base built, everything else you want to make requires a workstation.

[ricp]

This is a weird thread, it's literally someone saying, "Develop your game specifically for me"

[Viktoriusiii]

I generally agree... but building underground is one of the few things I don't agree with.

 

You can still 100% do it. If you want to avoid horde nights, just disable them. 

But it was an exploit that was fixed.

 

Zombies giving XP, crafting being as bad as it is rn, specific items that can only be gained via looting, weirdly one path POIs and now the sleeper volumes... those are all "incentives" to do a certain play style... and they should in a way stop that... or at least decrease their stubbornness (YES mega this is an unfounded attack  but it is also how I feel they decide on these things 😛 "I like it, therefor it stays. What? They don't play it that way? They are missing out! I will do this and that then they have to do it...")

 

 

 

So I agree with the general point, but disagree with some examples you gave. 

[meganoth]

32 minutes ago, Viktoriusiii said:

I generally agree... but building underground is one of the few things I don't agree with.

 

You can still 100% do it. If you want to avoid horde nights, just disable them. 

But it was an exploit that was fixed.

 

Zombies giving XP, crafting being as bad as it is rn, specific items that can only be gained via looting, weirdly one path POIs and now the sleeper volumes... those are all "incentives" to do a certain play style... and they should in a way stop that... or at least decrease their stubbornness (YES mega this is an unfounded attack  but it is also how I feel they decide on these things 😛 "I like it, therefor it stays. What? They don't play it that way? They are missing out! I will do this and that then they have to do it...")

 

 

 

So I agree with the general point, but disagree with some examples you gave. 

 

AHHHH, YOU SUMMONED ME!

 

Too bad that the developers want to make the game they themselves want to play. Too bad that they have to decide on exactly one game that is vanilla, not a hundred, and leave the hundred games to modders. They are as stubborn as you, but they own the game and you just want to get your perfect game without programming it yourself.

I don't like zombies giving XP as you do but I know I won't get my perfect game if I don't mod myself. And I know that I might not even know exactly what game I really want, fun is a very ephemeral thing. So I won't rail against decisions where I clearly see the developers have made up their mind. Obviously me having still fun with the vanilla game means I can live with that. I'm sure there are a lot of players who can't but this game can't be the perfect game for everyone.

 

They really look at how games are played and adjust things when they see some blocks being too powerful as zombie shields for example. This is how beta balancing for other games work as well. Those beta players are not getting invited for their fun as you perfectly know, they are there as guinee pigs doing extended balancing testing. And that goes double for us alpha players.

 

To the original poster @Desmondbratcat:

Now this "let me play how I want to play" style is commonly know as a sandbox. Probably minecraft is a relatively pure sandbox, 7D2D is not. It has big elements of survival and RPG in it and both these elements demand balance for your game play options and what you get from what effort.

 

This is best illustrated by underground building. If zombies have no way at all to reach you then there is a balancing problem in the game, it would work as a sandbox, but not as an RPG or survival game. Since the developers want an RPG and a survival game this will not change, simple as that.

 

In reality you can just reduce block damage on zombies to the lowest available value or turn off zombies at horde night and at other times (and turn them on again if you want to smack some) without even mods and be safe if you build sufficiently deep, i.e. on rock bottom. Do either that, look for a fitting mod, or yes, look for a game that says it is just a sandbox.

 

[DiegoLBC1]

7 hours ago, Desmondbratcat said:

 

Having said that, I get very frustrated with being forced into a certain play or build style because you guys don't like the way I do things.  You give me these tools and then you try and dictate how to use them.  

 

 

You can use mods. Problem solved.

[Maharin]

On 1/2/2022 at 7:03 AM, meganoth said:

you just want to get your perfect game without programming it yourself.

 

This is probably the best anti-rant there is against threads like this that also don't want to mod.  TFP makes their game and includes the tools to make it OUR game, if we want to put in the effort and/or wait for someone else do it.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Crater Creator
removed insulting language (see edit history)

[playlessNamer]

Whats the difference in turning horde night off and building a booby bridge? Its kinda the same. The game is PvE, when anyone wanna abuse a mechanic just let him do it. It doesnt effect my gameexperience.

 

My critic is: You have to use any abuse mechanic actually beause simple facetanking hordenights doesnt feel right. Even facetanking is just a clusterfck of zeds behind a open hatch and mellee them for ages. Nearly every concept of a horde base is a "abuse" in any way. On the other side how should a honest defense look like? It all depends on leading zeds to the same spot and crunch them there.

Since zombies have "intelligence" they are dumber than before.

Since 2 alphas i build kinda this entrance:

 

but even this pretty honest facetanking base feels like a abuse of mechanic because i know 100% i lead all of them into my chopper area.

 

In my actual run i use this:

 

It looks like a honest facetanking defense bunker, very classic but the only reason it works is the abuse of a mechanic.

 

Everything is a abuse of a mechanic.

[Jason Tamosiunis]

3 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

AHHHH, YOU SUMMONED ME!

 

Too bad that the developers want to make the game they themselves want to play. Too bad that they have to decide on exactly one game that is vanilla, not a hundred, and leave the hundred games to modders. They are as stubborn as you, but they own the game and you just want to get your perfect game without programming it yourself.

I don't like zombies giving XP as you do but I know I won't get my perfect game if I don't mod myself. And I know that I might not even know exactly what game I really want, fun is a very ephemeral thing. So I won't rail against decisions where I clearly see the developers have made up their mind. Obviously me having still fun with the vanilla game means I can live with that. I'm sure there are a lot of players who can't but this game can't be the perfect game for everyone.

 

They really look at how games are played and adjust things when they see some blocks being too powerful as zombie shields for example. This is how beta balancing for other games work as well. Those beta players are not getting invited for their fun as you perfectly know, they are there as guinee pigs doing extended balancing testing. And that goes double for us alpha players.

 

To the original poster @Desmondbratcat:

Now this "let me play how I want to play" style is commonly know as a sandbox. Probably minecraft is a relatively pure sandbox, 7D2D is not. It has big elements of survival and RPG in it and both these elements demand balance for your game play options and what you get from what effort.

 

This is best illustrated by underground building. If zombies have no way at all to reach you then there is a balancing problem in the game, it would work as a sandbox, but not as an RPG or survival game. Since the developers want an RPG and a survival game this will not change, simple as that.

 

In reality you can just reduce block damage on zombies to the lowest available value or turn off zombies at horde night and at other times (and turn them on again if you want to smack some) without even mods and be safe if you build sufficiently deep, i.e. on rock bottom. Do either that, look for a fitting mod, or yes, look for a game that says it is just a sandbox.

 

while i do agree with you mega i feel the devs have made the statement adapt or screw you to a group that loves building underground i also feel they only listened to the people that whined about the underground building ruining the game for them as we get told now if you dont like play different and i know Roland will read my comment so this is juts my opinion and thoughts PS: fix the laggy loading screens 😛

10 hours ago, Desmondbratcat said:

I am a long time player, I have thousands of hours invested in this game and that's because I love it.  I love what you guys are doing with the scenery, textures, roads, cities, POI's, you have made a fantastic game. 

Having said that, I get very frustrated with being forced into a certain play or build style because you guys don't like the way I do things.  You give me these tools and then you try and dictate how to use them.  I'm pretty sure you already know what I'm talking about, the no more building underground, the block strength being changed on some blocks, the farming, the zombie pathing - please, stop stuffing around with this stuff.  If I want to build a base underground out of poles that is my decision, it is not for you to decide that is not how I should play, I will play how I want to play and if I can't then I will look around and find something that I can.  There are many other things you guys can stuff around with for example fix the blocks and items that go invisible.  Sort out the optimisation.  Fix the stability issue.  Get the story line going.  There are many things you could be getting on with without annoying me by telling me how I should build and play the game.  Honestly guys, with the current world situation and our governments telling us what to do and how to do it how about you give us a break and just let us play how we want to play, not how you want us to play.  I don't know how to make this any clearer - just please stop.

i agree 110%

[canadianbluebeer]

11 hours ago, Laz Man said:

Leave the politics at the door please.  Also, the game is an early access, things will continue to change from Alpha to Alpha until the game is complete.

 

As much as some people would like to think, the devs are not targeting players looking to ruin their fun.  Bugs will arise and balancing is ongoing.

 

/tinfoil hat on

 

Original Ranger Station:  made a great starter base that could be expanded.  Loved it!  (changed, no can do now)

Bombshelter:   upgrade the fence, the little gatehouse thing and good to go. area in the fence made a great farm.  Loved it!  (changed, gone.)

Junkyard:  made an incredible early/mid horde base,  (found that by accident) .. changed (or at least can't find one)

Drop pit with shotty turret horde base:   zombie drop damage pretty much gone.

 

Haven't checked the dart trap base yet, but I expect that will still work. (it bloody well should given how much time/mats go into the thing!)

 

/tinfoil hat off

 

😛

 

[Mahnogard]

17 minutes ago, canadianbluebeer said:

Bombshelter:   upgrade the fence, the little gatehouse thing and good to go. area in the fence made a great farm.  Loved it!  (changed, gone.)

Junkyard:  made an incredible early/mid horde base,  (found that by accident) .. changed (or at least can't find one)

I've been finding the prefab list on the kui map renderer handy to find out if my favorite POIs still exist in A20. That bombshelter_01 was definitely changed. I haven't been to it yet to see how those changes affect its utility. 

 

There are multiple junkyards, I don't know which one you liked or if it is still feasible, but I thought I'd link them in case any of them was the one you wanted: 

 

Junkyard_lg_01

 

Junkyard_med_01

 

aaa_junkyard

 

country_junkyard_01

[Gamida]

Just to clarify, not everyone who built an underground base did it to avoid the horde.

I built them and on horde night, depending on if on MP server or SP game, I went above ground to fight.

I have 90% of time had a separate horde base. On MP servers usually it was a team base where we all fought or on my SP game I would make my own little place to fight them. Sometime I would just juice up on coffee and run around bashing heads. Or even get zoms to chase me as a pack so others could take shots at them...lol fun times.

Anyway this was just to explain that all undergrounders don't do it to avoid the hordes on horde nights.

Thank you for listening...

 

[Laz Man]

1 hour ago, canadianbluebeer said:

 

/tinfoil hat on

 

Original Ranger Station:  made a great starter base that could be expanded.  Loved it!  (changed, no can do now)

Bombshelter:   upgrade the fence, the little gatehouse thing and good to go. area in the fence made a great farm.  Loved it!  (changed, gone.)

Junkyard:  made an incredible early/mid horde base,  (found that by accident) .. changed (or at least can't find one)

Drop pit with shotty turret horde base:   zombie drop damage pretty much gone.

 

Haven't checked the dart trap base yet, but I expect that will still work. (it bloody well should given how much time/mats go into the thing!)

 

/tinfoil hat off

 

😛

 

 

All of those were probably updated because they hadn't been in a long time and not because players were using them as bases.

 

Would need to know what was changed specifically in them that you missed to be able to tell you why.

 

Edit: for example, most of all of the old vacant lot POIs were replaced with something new since they were so old and outdated. 

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Laz Man (see edit history)

[Laz Man]

Also to add, lots of new lot_industrial POIs were added that make good starter bases.  There is also another thread someone started of their favorite A20 POIs to take over.  😎

[8_Hussars]

13 hours ago, Desmondbratcat said:

 

Having said that, I get very frustrated with being forced into a certain play or build style because you guys don't like the way I do things.  You give me these tools and then you try and dictate how to use them.

Relatively new player here, but I find enough inspiration from vids and forums to rarely, if ever, play the same build, use the same POIs, or build the same horde base.

I find I am only limited by my imagination and my situation.  Sure the tools and mechanics change (often for balance) but that's part of the charm of the game, IMHO.  What worked in Ann does not necessarily work in Ann+1.  There is no script, no one true path, and no one way to play.  There is big old sandbox out there.... and most players like to explore and play in it.

 

[canadianbluebeer]

Pregen10k only has country_junkyard_01      the other 2 are not in the map.

 

The big building in the other 2 was good for horde. catwalk (bars) and hop-ups.

the pit inside, well, amusing, as if you removed 1 block, so zeds couldn't get to you,

they'd go crazy, and go into the pit and start smashing.

toss down a few pipe bombs (unlit),  then a lit one.   Bonus points for bouning one off the ceiling. 

Extra bonus:  molotov, then lit bomb.   Flying Flaming Zeds!   heh

 

In 16, there was only 1 ranger station.   10x10, 2 floor.  walkup outside. cobblestone first floor.

close off the the ground floor, and slowly upgrade.  

 

there are 3 rangerstations now, none as useful/easy to use.

 

the bombshelter, the fence covered all the underground, so digging didn't happen.

new one, well, it doesn't quite cover it, and you have all the crap to get out inside the walls,

instead of just a car and some trash.

 

It's usable, but a LOT of work.  I'm using creative to see just how much work, and it's easier to just build in an open area.

(but not with all cool stuff down below, so there is that to consider)

 

y'all DID notice the tinfoil hat part, right?

[G2manT]

I have 11450 hrs in this game and I always build an underground base. I also build an above ground base to fight the bloodmoon horde. Both are connected with tunnels and I never escape down the tunnel to avoid the horde. It's just the way I like to play.

[Tmodloader]

13 hours ago, ElCabong said:

If you're going to all that effort by digging an underground base to escape hord night, just turn it off.

 

The only thing I'm doing different is my base doesn't have a front door.  Otherwise I build the same way. 

 

The only thing they've done that I strongly disagree with is they made the workstation way more difficult to come by. After you get your base built, everything else you want to make requires a workstation.

I still don't have a work station in my underground base A20, no deaths run

3 hours ago, Jason Tamosiunis said:

while i do agree with you mega i feel the devs have made the statement adapt or screw you to a group that loves building undergroun

why can't people go underground anymore? Seems like something that is easy to do still, especially once you can make your steel box. I don't see how that is "adapt or screw you"

Edited January 2, 2022 by Tmodloader (see edit history)

[fragtzack]

I am also a long time player with 3000 hours. Disagree with the OP and agree with TFP for attempting to counter exploits. 

 

Survival is not about seeing how you can game the game. Applaud 7D2D devs for doing exactly what the OP and a few others are complaining about.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by fragtzack (see edit history)

[Tmodloader]

12 minutes ago, fragtzack said:

Applaud 7D2D devs for doing exactly what the OP and a few others are complaining about.

If this is what OP meant then wow these people are pretty passive aggressive too. Rereading his post, he seemed to claim that underground building is undoable now, as if there was some change that makes spaces underground cave in more easily or something. If he meant he can't exploit it but can still do it, but is mad because it's not broken, that's pretty lame. 

[SylenThunder]

15 hours ago, Desmondbratcat said:

Sort out the optimisation.  Fix the stability issue.  Get the story line going.

These are all things that happen in Beta development. The game is still in Alpha development. The part where major changes to core systems are made. Where simple/temporary placeholders are replaced with the real systems the developers have created. Where the game play style of the game is still being created, and is in flux with each and every update.