A20 Developer Diary Discussions

[Jost Amman]

59 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

... At any rate, my question is whether or not you guys have given any consideration to exposing the code for blood moon behavior to XML, particularly via buffs?

I'm no programmer, but even I can understand the answer is no... 

[HeLLKnight]

On 4/20/2021 at 12:37 AM, Laz Man said:

So, what are you guys most excited for in A20?  For me its the new shape menu and building updates.  Can't wait to see what POIs TFPs build as well as what the community can make. 😀

 

4) Shape Menu and Building Update

• Shapes are shown as shaded drawings of blocks
• Blocks from the shape menu are placed as particle board blocks that function the same as frame blocks
• Simplified upgrade path: Frame/Particle Board -> Wood -> Stone -> Concrete -> Steel
• Blocks destroy to air. They do not downgrade.

 

Could be very cool if they decide to add an option to see stability colors view when building, like Valheim. Yes I know there is a dev menu for that.

[Guppycur]

6 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

I'm no programmer, but even I can understand the answer is no... 

Oh I knew the answer before asking, but you see, this is all part of my master plan to implant ideas, so that one of them thinks its their own and implements it later.

 

 

[JCrook1028]

17 hours ago, hiemfire said:

They could always change the ingot drop to forged Iron instead of forged steel.  His work on them does look nice though.

I doubt the steel scrap output changed just because the model did.

[hiemfire]

18 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:

I doubt the steel scrap output changed just because the model did.

And I doubt they're going to increase the number of streetlights as was implied by the post I'd replied to.

[MechanicalLens]

Just now, hiemfire said:

And I doubt they're going to increase the number of streetlights as was implied by the post I'd replied to.

 

No, but they could increase the quantity of steel you harvest from them.

[pregnable]

Since the new armor sets are probably still a while from being finalized... it might be a good idea to move away from having any bonuses that strongly encourage the player to constantly swap armor. 

 

Like if the farming set stays the way it is, most people are going to swap to the farmer clothes any time they harvest their crops, then swap back. 

 

If the sets are more about alternate play styles, and focus more on damage, attack speed, or more out of the box mechanics, like parkour, it would probably be better received. 

 

If it is really worth it to swap armor, for certain tasks, then it will become the meta, no matter how you talk about self control, and people will complain about it... and you will probably get a small % of bad reviews about it. 

 

It is still a long way from happening, so I figured now is the time to put it out there. 

[AtomicUs5000]

I think I would just add in something where the max benefit of an armor set is reached after wearing it for some amount of time. Something like +10% towards the max for every real-time hour. You could even have it wind down in the opposite direction after removal so that if you die and drop everything you don't automatically reset it to 0. Although, now that I think about it more... perhaps that would be better as another way to make a death penalty more of a penalty.

[Roland]

1 hour ago, pregnable said:

If it is really worth it to swap armor, for certain tasks, then it will become the meta, no matter how you talk about self control, and people will complain about it...

 

I think it is lovely making the min-maxers squirm....

 

The more opportunity cost choices there are, the better it is, imo. 

[bloodmoth13]

1 minute ago, Roland said:

 

I think it is lovely making the min-maxers squirm....

 

The more opportunity cost choices there are, the better it is, imo. 

Honestly that kind of stuff is fine so long as it feels right to do. If its opening a menu to drag and drop several pieces it becomes annoying and tedious. If its too easy though there isnt an opportunity cost so it becomes automatic and kind of lame.

 

I remember in previous alphas carrying 2 jackets, a duster and a poncho for hot or cold climates, at the time i liked the idea but hated the gameplay, i felt smart for doing that but it wasnt fun to do. Not sure if its possible to make getting dressed fun, best idea i have is being able to create a collection that i can apply all with one click without having to navigate my bag to assign all of the pieces and then go backwards afterwards. Give it a 'cast time' so you cant do it in the middle of a fight or something.

 

The current interface is probably fine but i generally prefer to just do things inefficiently than to swap out gear between tasks. 

[unholyjoe]

13 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

I think it is lovely making the min-maxers squirm....

 

The more opportunity cost choices there are, the better it is, imo. 

agree... i dont think the zeds are their biggest challenge anymore... it will be "they have to make decisions and get lost

in the numbers" and they didnt think the game was challenging enough..

Edited April 22, 2021 by unholyjoe (see edit history)

[Roland]

1 hour ago, pregnable said:

it might be a good idea to move away from having any bonuses that strongly encourage the player to constantly swap armor.

 

Why have a dozen different outfit choices if they are all bland enough and samey enough that it just doesn't really matter what you're wearing? Strong bonuses that influence different aspects of the game make the outfits exciting and unique. Sure...some will feel forced to have to swap outfits before they do anything because they can't bear to do something at less than the maximum possible ability and then they will complain about the constant outfit swapping. That can be mitigated by making the outfit swapping process fast and easy. I would rather see an abstracted instant change than see all the outfits be just differently skinned versions of the same basic advantages just so some people won't feel compelled to swap clothes.

[Roland]

8 minutes ago, bloodmoth13 said:

Honestly that kind of stuff is fine so long as it feels right to do. If its opening a menu to drag and drop several pieces it becomes annoying and tedious. If its too easy though there isnt an opportunity cost so it becomes automatic and kind of lame.

 

I remember in previous alphas carrying 2 jackets, a duster and a poncho for hot or cold climates, at the time i liked the idea but hated the gameplay, i felt smart for doing that but it wasnt fun to do. Not sure if its possible to make getting dressed fun, best idea i have is being able to create a collection that i can apply all with one click without having to navigate my bag to assign all of the pieces and then go backwards afterwards. Give it a 'cast time' so you cant do it in the middle of a fight or something.

 

The current interface is probably fine but i generally prefer to just do things inefficiently than to swap out gear between tasks. 

 

I agree, that a non-tedious way to switch clothes is best. Have a wardrobe workstation for outfits. You open it and can create outfits by mixing and matching the four pieces you want together into an ensemble. Then you can instantly wear an ensemble or switch to a different ensemble. You can always swap clothes quickly and easily at your base using your wardrobe or (if you must) you can carry clothes with you to change tediously out in the field if you want to take advantage of a bonus.

[SnowDog1942]

48 minutes ago, faatal said:

Expose typically means take something that is there and give you access to it. To do what you describe sounds like adding features, which we don't plan on doing for blood moons. Once we go gold and improve mod support, then that could change.

Exposing is not worth it.  Ive gotten in trouble and yelled at multiple times. 

[bloodmoth13]

2 hours ago, Roland said:

 

I agree, that a non-tedious way to switch clothes is best. Have a wardrobe workstation for outfits. You open it and can create outfits by mixing and matching the four pieces you want together into an ensemble. Then you can instantly wear an ensemble or switch to a different ensemble. You can always swap clothes quickly and easily at your base using your wardrobe or (if you must) you can carry clothes with you to change tediously out in the field if you want to take advantage of a bonus.

Sounds like a good start. Obviously its not a major issue but its always good to have important things feel good to do.

Are we only having 4 slots in the next alpha? will clothes and armor still be separate or are they combined?

[MechanicalLens]

20 minutes ago, bloodmoth13 said:

Sounds like a good start. Obviously its not a major issue but its always good to have important things feel good to do.

Are we only having 4 slots in the next alpha? will clothes and armor still be separate or are they combined?

 

Yes, and yes.

[Roland]

30 minutes ago, bloodmoth13 said:

Sounds like a good start. Obviously its not a major issue but its always good to have important things feel good to do.

Are we only having 4 slots in the next alpha? will clothes and armor still be separate or are they combined?

As of now the next alpha will be the same as now in regards to clothes and armor. 

[Jost Amman]

7 hours ago, Roland said:

I agree, that a non-tedious way to switch clothes is best. Have a wardrobe workstation for outfits. You open it and can create outfits by mixing and matching the four pieces you want together into an ensemble. Then you can instantly wear an ensemble or switch to a different ensemble. You can always swap clothes quickly and easily at your base using your wardrobe or (if you must) you can carry clothes with you to change tediously out in the field if you want to take advantage of a bonus.

This is one of those cases where I'd add "class-like" limitations to outfits.

Example: you can't wear (read get the bonuses from) the Farmer outfit until you invest X points in the "Living from the land" perk. And so on with other types...

[pregnable]

10 hours ago, Roland said:

 

Why have a dozen different outfit choices if they are all bland enough and samey enough that it just doesn't really matter what you're wearing? Strong bonuses that influence different aspects of the game make the outfits exciting and unique. Sure...some will feel forced to have to swap outfits before they do anything because they can't bear to do something at less than the maximum possible ability and then they will complain about the constant outfit swapping. That can be mitigated by making the outfit swapping process fast and easy. I would rather see an abstracted instant change than see all the outfits be just differently skinned versions of the same basic advantages just so some people won't feel compelled to swap clothes.

 

I was thinking more like having sets do interesting things.  Just swapping constantly to get optimal gains is not really interesting or fun...

 

Something like one of the sets giving a modifier to parkour, if you invested in it.  Like maybe it allows you to do damage when you land on a zombie, or some kinda aoe. 

 

Or like a fireman outfit that improves the viability of axes, like extending axe range, or making the power attack a much larger aoe.  Or maybe he puts fires out and cancels burning on zombies, when hit with an axe, but does massive damage when it happens, so that you would always want to carry a flaming steel axe.  Or maybe some unique build using the stone axe. 

 

A Jesus outfit where when you drink normal water in combat, it turns to wine and you get the booze effect.  Cheap constant beer for punching.

 

A set where your hands empty hands become viable weapons, digging, mining and harvesting tools, but you can not use any tools or weapons while the set is equipped. 

 

Maybe a set where when you have the parkour perk, you become able to instantly walk over objects 2 blocks high, without jumping. 

 

A set where you can blind enemies, which allows you to do sneak damage without sneaking, with certain weapons, like bow and knife, but the chance is based on your from the shadows perk level. 

 

A set where you can zipline ;-P

 

A set where zombie dogs no longer attack you, and are friendly, but it has to be equipped before they aggro you and you have to keep it on. 

 

Anyway, you get the idea.  None of that will probably make it into the game, but something more along those lines, rather than 50% more harvest, so that everyone is just constantly swapping outfits...

[meganoth]

10 hours ago, Roland said:

 

Why have a dozen different outfit choices if they are all bland enough and samey enough that it just doesn't really matter what you're wearing? Strong bonuses that influence different aspects of the game make the outfits exciting and unique. Sure...some will feel forced to have to swap outfits before they do anything because they can't bear to do something at less than the maximum possible ability and then they will complain about the constant outfit swapping. That can be mitigated by making the outfit swapping process fast and easy. I would rather see an abstracted instant change than see all the outfits be just differently skinned versions of the same basic advantages just so some people won't feel compelled to swap clothes.

 

The best choices are the ones you have to stick to.

 

One idea someone presented was a cooldown, another would be that all bonuses would be needed at the same time. For example they could all be useful while scavenging (poi clearing, what you find in loot, running speed, armor)

 

But the example with the farmer outfit is quite the other way round. Lets say it is a bonus to harvest result just like the LotL perk has. Since you get more you need to harvest less often. And switching the outfit is clearly less time waste than one more produce per plant would save you.

 

If harvesting were a fun activity I would laugh as well and chant with you "Look at the idiots who destroy their fun with meaningless chores". Instead this is replacing chore with faster chore. I know what I will do.

 

[Gamida]

14 hours ago, SnowDog1942 said:

Exposing is not worth it.  Ive gotten in trouble and yelled at multiple times. 

Careful, I have heard of people dying from exposure...

[Adam the Waster]

On 4/21/2021 at 7:41 PM, MechanicalLens said:

Steel galore everyone.

 

 

 

HOW DID I NOT SEE THIS!

WHAT IN THE HELL! ILL BE HAVING SOMEONES ASS FOR DINNER!

[SnowDog1942]

43 minutes ago, Adam the Waster said:

ILL BE HAVING SOMEONES ASS FOR DINNER!

 

Im ready to serve

[GreasyMullet]

I'm going to give the outfits a chance but it sounds like a terrible idea and I hope the development team has a plan B if it does not work out.  Everything else about 20 looks and sounds amazing but I'm very skeptical of the outfit idea.

 

The reason why is the game is all about customization and playing your way.  You build your base your way, you mod your equipment your way, you explore your way, play your way, etc etc.. and all of that is about having a unique experience to play how you want.  Locking into an outfit like this is telling me now I got to conform to a specific way of playing and swap clothes on the fly like a Kardashian if I want to maximize my engagement doing something the developers consider a different role.  Its going to take us from immersion of crafting something unique to us as players and instead be something generic.

 

Clothing and armor needed work but I don't think this is the way.  We shall see but I really hope they have a plan B if it does not work out.

[pregnable]

7 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

The best choices are the ones you have to stick to.

 

One idea someone presented was a cooldown, another would be that all bonuses would be needed at the same time. For example they could all be useful while scavenging (poi clearing, what you find in loot, running speed, armor)

 

But the example with the farmer outfit is quite the other way round. Lets say it is a bonus to harvest result just like the LotL perk has. Since you get more you need to harvest less often. And switching the outfit is clearly less time waste than one more produce per plant would save you.

 

If harvesting were a fun activity I would laugh as well and chant with you "Look at the idiots who destroy their fun with meaningless chores". Instead this is replacing chore with faster chore. I know what I will do.

 

 

Yeah, and like the crafting one that is said to make crafted items have 50% better stats, or whatever.  Most people would obviously feel the need to swap it off and on when crafting, and that is just an unfun mechanic. 

 

It is still a long ways off so I figured it would be a good time to talk about it, so the devs can decide how they want to do it. 

 

They are already trying to simplify and unify things, so it seems like putting an annoying clothing swapping meta into the game is not something they intend on doing. 

 

I doubt MM intends to turn the game into armor swap 2021... or Barbie dream dress up adventure. 

 

Although, if it were like that old cartoon Jem, and you could change into hot outfits on the fly, with your magic hologram computer, by touching your earrings, I might be on board, heh.