Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[Capp00]

1 minute ago, madmole said:

I'm not sure if it was done but I told them to make steroids debuff all broken leg movement penalties so it has late game value. Maybe that didn't make it in?

 

lol. Enough strength to carry a moving van worth of gear, but you have to limp at a snails pace.

[MechanicalLens]

Just now, madmole said:

I'm not sure if it was done but I told them to make steroids debuff all broken leg movement penalties so it has late game value. Maybe that didn't make it in?

 

That's good to hear.  I was puzzled why it was placed so heavily down the Intellect tree.

 

With that being said, I don't know if it's made it in or not... If no-one else can confirm, I'll test it out later.

 

On a complete side note here, but what happened to the new dog sleeping animation that was presented in previous streams? I've noticed that didn't make it in, either.

1 minute ago, Capp00 said:

 

lol. Enough strength to carry a moving van worth of gear, but you have to limp at a snails pace.

 

[Red Eagle LXIX]

I am happy with the new short grasses and terrain textures.  My only wish would be that putting a land claim block down would mow all the tall grass within the land claimed area (and maybe give it menu option on the LCB radial in addition to show/hide boundary).  I have a very poor substitute as a mod that make the whole world look like The Duke's crazy brother Mowin' Matt went wild on the world.

[AtomicUs5000]

On 12/8/2021 at 10:39 AM, madmole said:

Nope, they completely bypass the natural progression that gives the player a feeling of accomplishment. WIthout needs and desires, the game is boring so I had them make them ALL broken. Now when you finally craft one or buy one you feel extremely rewarded instead of meh I'm already at late game tech because I found a trader with all the workstations intact on day 1. @%$# that.

 

Thank you!

I think it was when A18 launched and I was super excited to play (and to get out of A17 lol), but my first trader had all working stations. So, I generated a new world and the same thing happened again. Naturally, I complained... but it's good to know that I'm not the only one seeing how much something like that can give too much advantage and ruin your game.

[Jost Amman]

1 minute ago, Red Eagle LXIX said:

I am happy with the new short grasses and terrain textures.  My only wish would be that putting a land claim block down would mow all the tall grass within the land claimed area (and maybe give it menu option on the LCB radial in addition to show/hide boundary).  I have a very poor substitute as a mod that make the whole world look like The Duke's crazy brother Mowin' Matt went wild on the world.

That could be exploited by repeatedly placing LCBs all over the place (even if honestly I don't know what the purpose of that would be lol).

[MechanicalLens]

1 minute ago, Jost Amman said:

That could be exploited by repeatedly placing LCBs all over the place (even if honestly I don't know what the purpose of that would be lol).

 

C.N.L.M.S.W.L.C.B. (Certified Navezgane Lawn Mowing Service With Land Claim Blocks.)

[hiemfire]

9 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

That could be exploited by repeatedly placing LCBs all over the place (even if honestly I don't know what the purpose of that would be lol).

Ever try to hit a rabbit from range through grass? No grass means no place for Bugs to hide and juke behind. Just an example of a possible exploit to the suggestion you were replying to.

Edited December 9, 2021 by hiemfire (see edit history)

[dcsobral]

On 12/8/2021 at 9:49 AM, Stroichik said:

Wheels. Personally, never used acid for anything but wheels. And even bicycle needs acid, to make wheels. And wheels by themselves are more rare than acid, at least they were in A19.

But somehow, we can now make machineguns out of pipe and glue, without even machine parts or springs. Surprisingly sophisticated pipes in Navezgane these days.

Makes sense. Machine guns predate bicycles.

On 12/8/2021 at 9:51 AM, Khalagar said:

Take that literally like 15 people who argued with me until they were blue in the face in A19 that the bow wasn't terribly under powered!

That depends on whether "bow" is meant to be "bow" or "all weapons in the archery skill". The primitive bow sucks(ed), but so do other primitive weapons. But I think there's an issue with the perspective here. If you think Strength and Fortitude are balanced, then bows were useless. If you think Strength and Fortitude are OP, then bows were fine.

 

As for the crossbow, it ruled already. I don't think the buff applies to it.

19 minutes ago, madmole said:

I'm not sure if it was done but I told them to make steroids debuff all broken leg movement penalties so it has late game value. Maybe that didn't make it in?

It looks like it did. I checked the fort bites buff, and the fort bites and recog recipes since these are the ones at the top of the chain. I added in the steroids to the comment as an afterthought. Curiously, looking at the progression, Physician 2 now doesn't unlock anything at all???

[unlike them]

2 hours ago, DominionZA said:

Dynamic music system doesn't work in A20, just me? Just silence all the time, despite it being on. no combat music, no exploration

Go to main menu - Options - turn On 'menu music', this fixed it for me

[overgoat]

10 minutes ago, dcsobral said:

As for the crossbow, it ruled already. I don't think the buff applies to it.

Crossbow got buffed too.  I found a L2 compound crossbow that does 98 damage with iron bolts.  Drops most basic zombies with single headshot.  Loving it.

[JoeDaFrogman]

On 12/8/2021 at 11:56 AM, Khalagar said:

Even if I rushed to try to craft it, I can't because you can't make steel without a crucible

I am of the opinion, not backed up by facts but viewing, that unless you are extremely unlucky or in a tiny town, you can easily get the 37 steel need for a moto exceedingly quickly now.   I have seen a half dozen vending machines, all broken, and well over a dozen street lights in the small part of the town we have explored on day 1-3.  Granted, I have yet to verify in the xml files, but on average I expect to get about 1.5 steel(based on A19 expectations) from each of those using a wrench, so more than enough for a moto. 

 

Acid and/or wheels are the hold up now(I saw your lower comment about the perk book for more harvest acid.. good RNG!)     Frankly, I have told people I know EXPLICITLY to not craft bike or minibike as that completely wastes those precious wheels you need later for a moto

[dcsobral]

6 minutes ago, JoeDaFrogman said:

I am of the opinion, not backed up by facts but viewing, that unless you are extremely unlucky or in a tiny town, you can easily get the 37 steel need for a moto exceedingly quickly now.   I have seen a half dozen vending machines, all broken, and well over a dozen street lights in the small part of the town we have explored on day 1-3.  Granted, I have yet to verify in the xml files, but on average I expect to get about 1.5 steel(based on A19 expectations) from each of those using a wrench, so more than enough for a moto. 

 

Acid and/or wheels are the hold up now(I saw your lower comment about the perk book for more harvest acid.. good RNG!)     Frankly, I have told people I know EXPLICITLY to not craft bike or minibike as that completely wastes those precious wheels you need later for a moto

Yeah. Would you spend 1 acid to craft 5 can of sham? I suppose late game it might be a possibility, if you don't intend crafting learn elixir, moonshine or recog. But where it is really biting me right now is Chemistry Station. It's almost an either/or with the motorcycle!

[JoeDaFrogman]

11 minutes ago, dcsobral said:

Yeah. Would you spend 1 acid to craft 5 can of sham? I suppose late game it might be a possibility, if you don't intend crafting learn elixir, moonshine or recog. But where it is really biting me right now is Chemistry Station. It's almost an either/or with the motorcycle!

Yea, I never really made sham but a few times.  Mostly my acid mid-late game was reserved for awesome sauce(IIRC), but that was also limited by dog food as well and now will be limited by both

 

[Jost Amman]

I don't see all that big problem with Acid, honestly.

I myself have found at least 5/6 bottles in the first 7 days (120mins/day) but I also read on Steam that others have had bad and good luck alike.

[LewZephyr]

26 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

I don't see all that big problem with Acid, honestly.

I myself have found at least 5/6 bottles in the first 7 days (120mins/day) but I also read on Steam that others have had bad and good luck alike.

 

Yep, sounds like RNG basics to me.  Sometimes you win sometimes you lose.  I am in the boat of not having any acid, but not having anything I want it for as well. 

Hell it took my group 3 days to get a Pot just so we could make some bacon and eggs.

[Sal]

2 hours ago, BlashaKente said:

A nerf that WAS in the patch notes however was Honey from stumps and good lord y'all were not messing around! Outdated wiki states 40% drop chance, looking in block.xml I see:
 

<block name="treeStump">

...

<drop event="Destroy" name="foodHoney" count="1" prob=".2"/>

Am I reading this right the chance is down to 20%? Feels more like 2%. Chopped maybe two dozen stumps before getting honey but may be bad luck. 

 

All great changes. Most of the fun for me is adapting to the game so long as the challenges feel fair and surmountable.

Long live the primitive age of Alpha 20!!

I tested this to see how much honey I would get out of 100 with default settings and it seems higher than 20%. 

3x I placed 100 tree stumps and tested it with dev hammer and level 1 axe (maxed out miner69 for time)

Rd1: 58 w/ dev and 35 w/ axe
Rd2: 53 w/ dev and 37 w/ axe
Rd3: 54 w/ dev and 34 w/ axe

 

This still seems a bit too high IMO. I was hoping it was closer to 20% (unless I got lucky all 3 times).

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Sal (see edit history)

[Morloc]

1 hour ago, madmole said:

Na, it's not a bug. Infection comes from wolves too and they aren't zombies.

 

Boars as well now. I'm fairly sure this wasn't the case previously.

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc

[madmole]

3 minutes ago, Morloc said:

 

Boars as well now. I'm fairly sure this wasn't the case previously.

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc

They eat sh*t, so infection should be common lol.

[dcsobral]

Turn On The Power Quest: I'm seeing a lot of streamers complaining there's nothing to offset the increased difficulty of a night quest. Thoughts?

[faatal]

6 hours ago, overgoat said:

Question:  Have the mechanics of feral sense vs. stealth been detailed yet?  Does stealth just reduce feral range detection or is more going on with light/noise/distance?

Anecdotally, I have found with only 1 rank in stealth I am able to do stealth archer with some success, but it is definitely more challenging than before.  The biggest difference feels like multiple zombies wake at once rather than the one at a time before.  I'm rather enjoying the extra challenge.

Yes, reduce. Stealth works the same by reducing light and noise levels, while feral sense decreases the thresholds needed to see and hear the light and noise.

[madmole]

15 minutes ago, dcsobral said:

Turn On The Power Quest: I'm seeing a lot of streamers complaining there's nothing to offset the increased difficulty of a night quest. Thoughts?

Doesn't it bump up the loot stage?

 

[SnowDog1942]

7 hours ago, Morloc said:

 

Boars as well now. I'm fairly sure this wasn't the case previously.

 

 

-Arch Necromancer Morloc

As much as I like added difficulty in this game — and I can probably list hundreds of ways Id like to increase it.  This would not make it on my list by a longshot.  
 

This seems like the proverbial, “Its not a bug, its a feature”.   Please TFP, just sit back think of how weird this seems for any of the non infected animals.

 

If you like that it adds diffuculty, I get it, just pick a way to add difficulty that isnt as sloppy as this.

Edited December 10, 2021 by SnowDog1942 (see edit history)

[Khalagar]

3 hours ago, dcsobral said:

That depends on whether "bow" is meant to be "bow" or "all weapons in the archery skill". The primitive bow sucks(ed), but so do other primitive weapons. But I think there's an issue with the perspective here. If you think Strength and Fortitude are balanced, then bows were useless. If you think Strength and Fortitude are OP, then bows were fine.

 

Strength is OP I don't think anyone including the devs deny that. Fortitude is solid, but not sure I'd say it's OP. Currently the Pipe machine gun is blatantly OP and better than all other pipe weapons, but it evens out later on where shotguns >>>> machine guns. An auto shottie with a drum mag has some ridiculous number of shells and will clear an entire blood moon horde on it's own, and shells are way cheaper to craft than bullets and do more per shell

 

Bows were bad because they sucked, lol. They didn't do enough damage to justify, and there was no point in using one when you could just use a hunting rifle and still do the same thing. They are better in A20 but I still wouldn't say they are OP at all. Lately I've just been using my double barrel as a stealth weapon, lol. Even with feral senses on, sleepers won't wake up, so I'll usually clear like half of a room with my double barrel from like 20+ feet away while not even in the sleeper aggro zone yet, and the zombies don't wake up while I'm just sitting there crouching and shooting their friends with a loud unsilenced shotgun

 

The main reason bows feel better now is they actually get kills from stealth, and because the pipe rifle doesn't do enough damage to one hit kill with a stealth headshot without perks. A19 the hunting rifle did, so it out classed the bow in 98.9% of situations

2 hours ago, dcsobral said:

Turn On The Power Quest: I'm seeing a lot of streamers complaining there's nothing to offset the increased difficulty of a night quest. Thoughts?

 

I def think this should be addressed. The power quest is the hardest one by far, but rewards seem the same as fetch / clear which are far easier. For added dev cruelty, you guys should turn on mandatory feral senses during power quests lol, that's what makes the power quest so much more fun

 

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Khalagar (see edit history)

[dcsobral]

38 minutes ago, madmole said:

Doesn't it bump up the loot stage?

 

It doesn't look like it. On kage848 stream's on Saturday he had lootstage 14 outside POIs, lootstage 19 during the quest, and lootstage 21 on a POI he had visited just before.

3 minutes ago, SnowDog1942 said:

As much as I like added difficulty in this game — and I can probably list hundreds of ways Id like to increase it.  This would not make it on my list by a longshot.  
 

This seems like the proverbial, “Its not a bug, its a feature”.   Please TFP, just sit back think of how weird this seems for any of the non infected animals.

 

If you like that it adds diffuculty, I get it, just pick a way to add difficulty that isnt as sloppy as this.

You are covered in gore from your fights with zombies, so of course any cut can get you zombie-infected. Besides, the bear might be incubating but not yet transformed, and wolves might be just vectors.

[hiemfire]

7 minutes ago, dcsobral said:

You are covered in gore from your fights with zombies, so of course any cut can get you zombie-infected. Besides, the bear might be incubating but not yet transformed, and wolves might be just vectors.

That's also not accounting for other run of the mill infections which are probably still kicking around in the non-zombified wildlife just waiting for an open injury to start incubating. Infection in game is curable by penicillin, processed from the mold growing on the sham sandwiches and the now defunct moldy bread, and immune system boosters (herbal antibiotics and honey). This kind of implies it is a generalized term now and there isn't just a zombie virus kicking around anymore.