Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[meganoth]

3 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

If you only ever used acid for wheels then you should be fine. Bicycle can be chosen as a reward package after finishing the Tier 1 quests. So just save the acid for wheels for the better vehicles later in the game.

 

Which begs the question how the INT player gets the acid? (Oh God, I'm sounding like Khalgar now 😁)

 

[Khalagar]

5 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Which begs the question how the INT player gets the acid? (Oh God, I'm sounding like Khalgar now 😁)

 

I must become the bastion of defending the int tree or get banned from the forum for it one, it is destiny!

 

I actually did struggle hard to get acid last night, then found that book where wrenching cars down gives acid and now have a lot of it. If only the salvager perk was in the int tree with the rest of the crafting and vehicle perks  instead of randomly in perception, I would take it in a heartbeat.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Khalagar (see edit history)

[bachgaman]

17 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

17 minutes ago, Roland said:

Are you talking about making enough money to purchase one that was available on the first day or are you talking about the Tier 1 Quest completion package? If the former, the bike isn't always available to be purchased and if the latter, I can only assume that you must be playing with a modified day length and not playing the default 60 minute daylength. The Tier 1 completion reward comes at the end of 10 Tier 1 quests completed and most people aren't going to speed run the game to the degree that they get all ten quests completed on day one,

 

Trader balancing is ongoing and there was definitely some adjustments for A20 and there will be more in the future--but probably not enough to counteract someone choosing to cram 10 quests in a day.  Maybe the solution is simply to have the trader state that there are no more jobs available after 2-3 have been done in a single day.

 

I do agree that too valuable loot is too commonly obtained too soon. It should still be possible but it should be very very rare-- at least in the Forest biome. If someone wants to venture into a tougher biome for a better chance at better loot that should be possible.

I'm afraid to answer you, but I'll answer. The second one. We played as three. All three received bicycles. I'm not sure about 10, but one of us, the one who managed to pass the last quest before the trader closed, received a bicycle at the end of the first day. I'll check it from the screenshots, maybe I'm confusing it and it was the end of day 2. It's not that important. The length of the day is standard. I agree that in the group quest are completing faster, but it is easy to perform 3-4 tasks a day alone, so you will get a bike on day 3 in solo game. I'm not saying it's a disbalance, strangely enough. You pulled this phrase out of context as always, where I asked about the purpose of the "mechanic" skill, not about the balance of the appearance of a fast bike.

Edited December 8, 2021 by bachgaman (see edit history)

[BFT2020]

1 minute ago, meganoth said:

 

Which begs the question how the INT player gets the acid? (Oh God, I'm sounding like Khalgar now 😁)

 

Same way all you deadhead people do  😉

[Roland]

10 minutes ago, Stroichik said:

If i want to manually replant 60+ farming plots, i`ll go play Farming Sim, thank you. 

But since u scrapped Wellness system, i can just go jump from Radio Tower every night, to wake up in the morning feeling no hunger for entire day.

 

The first line proves my point that people who don't like to replant don't like farming as a feature. FYI, manual replanting isn't the linchpin that turns farming in this game into a farming sim.....by a long shot.

 

As to your point about dying to erase debuffs and regain food, water, and health.... I am with you 10000% and I've been voicing my opinion that at the least there needs to be an option to turn on persistent status after respawn for those who don't want death in a survival game to be the cure-all for everything we are trying to survive against. Does ANYONE really care about the XP delay to the next level?  I get that it can't be the default setting because new players would get into a death spiral they could not recover from. An option, though, would be nice.

 

My top three options wishlist:

 

Zombie Spawn Slider

Persistent Status After Respawn

HUD visibility 

 

[Stroichik]

In A19 getting bike before first blood moon was ok for me, on Insane. But if dont find acid now, its impossible to make any wheels. So i will be hoarding wheels for better transport and can forget about crafting anything that is not Truck or Gyro now.

[Roland]

3 minutes ago, bachgaman said:

You pulled this phrase out of context as always, where I asked about the purpose of the "mechanic" skill, not about the balance of the appearance of a fast bike.

 

The mechanic skill is there for those who don't go the same route as you. Or for you whenever you mod out traders. :)

[Stroichik]

4 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

The first line proves my point that people who don't like to replant don't like farming as a feature. FYI, manual replanting isn't the linchpin that turns farming in this game into a farming sim.....by a long shot.

 

As to your point about dying to erase debuffs and regain food, water, and health.... I am with you 10000% and I've been voicing my opinion that at the least there needs to be an option to turn on persistent status after respawn for those who don't want death in a survival game to be the cure-all for everything we are trying to survive against. Does ANYONE really care about the XP delay to the next level?  I get that it can't be the default setting because new players would get into a death spiral they could not recover from. An option, though, would be nice.

 

My top three options wishlist:

 

Zombie Spawn Slider

Persistent Status After Respawn

HUD visibility 

 

Just bring back Wellness system. It was perfect for 7d2d. 

[c33tz]

So now that Pipe Weapons and 'early game' options for all weapon types are now in... any chance for an XP overhaul in the near future?

 

My thoughts/suggestion, in the name of a game are: Mount & Blade Bannerlord.

 

Pretty sure all the framework is in place, specializations well defined, just need a method to track/gain XP per Skill + Cumulative General XP (as-is) for this to work!

 

I'm not going to retype it here, my essay is here as follows:

https://steamcommunity.com/app/251570/discussions/0/3196989600462121585/

[Blake_]

9 minutes ago, madmole said:

I agree that intellect needs a bit more yet, but that is the nature of unlock perks.

By the way, I was trying a bit of Perception build and when I went to the trader I noticed that pipe bombs, grenades and contact grenades all cost the same : 123 dukes without barter bonuses.

 

And the Rocket launcher HE ammo costs 750 for 700 damage.

 

Pipes do 253 damage and grenades 350 something both.

 

That means pipe grenades should cost 3 times less than a rocket launcher HE ammo as they do close to 3 times less damage, that is ~250 dukes per unit, and the 2 other grenades should cost ~375 dukes each as they do almost exactly half damage of a HE ammo piece. They are also way more tactical and efficient than a rocket launcher shot.

 

I've got a bit annoyed at the cheap price and didn't buy any throwable explosive yet, would you make a ticket for that if you agree?

[saltychipmunk]

well, one could argue that rockets are not designed to be used against zombies.  the whole point of a self propelled explosive is to limit the exposure of the user to retribution from a much more heavily armed and armored target.

 

like a tank with.. guns.... rather than a blob on mindless zombies that are predictably shuffling at you. 

 

They could see more use when bandits are put in.  because then you are paying less for damage per duke and more for the ability to not need to get into throwing distances with a bunch of machine guns 

Edited December 8, 2021 by saltychipmunk (see edit history)

[vergilsparda]

11 hours ago, Khalagar said:

Pipe Baton is under the Intellect attribute, and sort of scales from the Stun Baton perk line (think the perk line is called electrocute". I've actually posted a few posts on it and hopefully @madmole is not overwhlemed by the farming debates and has noticed 😃

 

The issue is that Pipe Baton is not mentioned in any of the UI so new players won't know it's affected by the Intellect tree, Pipe Baton can't use stun baton mods like the stun repulsor, and Pipe Baton does not get the main benefits of the Stun Baton perk line, which feels very bad and makes it so you don't bother perking into your own weapon line which is weird

 

tysm, and one last question and ill be out of your hair for now, do you know which mods can be put into the pipe baton? i've tried a few (weighted head, spikes, etc), but those can only be installed in clubs. now i know that stun baton mods won't go into it either. and since it isn't a bladed weapon, the bladed weapon mods probably can't go in it. my guess is mods like rad remover and the handle mods and such? if you don't know ill probably just test in a creative world (which i should be doing anyway 😅)

 

it's a little unfortunate that club mods can't go into it—at least weighted head—given that another name for a baton is a billy club (i jest, but only partially)

it can!

Edited December 8, 2021 by vergilsparda
crazy talk activated sorry (see edit history)

[dcsobral]

37 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

They have a point though, the mechanic skill is useless. It seems the way to get my precious intellect tree buffed is to convince Madmole to do an intellect focused run. It feels bad man when you waste a bunch of perk points learning to craft a bike or forge etc then just find the recipe or one for sale or get one free from trader etc. Those skills need to offer way more than they do. Why would I waste so many points to spec into the vehicle perk line when the trader literally gave me 80% of a motorcyle as a quest reward day 9? Even if I rushed to try to craft it, I can't because you can't make steel without a crucible

 

And then even if you get the perk, they barely offer anything after you do your initial craft of the item compared to just finding a book /  buying the item.

 

Oh boy, 20% faster crafting time on the forge, whoo! You know what crafts 100% faster? Building a second forge / campfire / etc. Might as well just take the perk, craft 10 forges or your 1 motorcycle or w/e and  drink a respec potion and put points elsewhere

Screw the speed. The costs are cheaper which can make a significant difference, you get XP from trap kills, you get increased XP from healing and you can craft the first aid bandage so you can heal every time you are even a single point down for extra XP, vehicles are WAY cheaper and you can get a motorcycle very early in the game, you get better secret stash, you get _two_ secret stashes using the nerd goggles exploit, better prices for buying and selling, more cash from quests, more quest reward options, more flexibility using robotic sledge/turrets. What is NOT to like? Intellect is the most OP attribute tree in the game. Focus on it for the first two weeks, then switch to another attribute and you'll advance way faster than any other way.

Edited December 8, 2021 by dcsobral
Lack of coffee (see edit history)

[bachgaman]

4 minutes ago, dcsobral said:

Screw the speed. The costs are cheaper which can make a significant different, you get XP from trap kills, you get increased XP from healing and you can craft the first bandage so you can heal every time you are even a single point down for extra XP, vehicles are WAY cheaper and you can get a motorcycle very easily in the game, you get better secret stash, you get _two_ secret stashes using the nerd goggles exploit, better prices for buying and selling, more cash from quests, more quest reward options, more flexibility using robotic sledge/turrets. What is NOT to like? Intellect is the most OP attribute tree in the game. Focus on it for the first two weeks, then switch to another attribute and you'll advance way faster than any other way.

Check out my big post above. I got an auger level 3 on day 7 playing only intelligence in A20

[Khalagar]

6 minutes ago, vergilsparda said:

 

tysm, and one last question and ill be out of your hair for now, do you know which mods can be put into the pipe baton? i've tried a few (weighted head, spikes, etc), but those can only be installed in clubs. now i know that stun baton mods won't go into it either. since it isn't a bladed weapon, the bladed weapon mods probably can't go in it either. my guess is mods like rad remover and the handle mods and such? if you don't know ill probably just test in a creative world (which i should be doing anyway 😅)

 

it's a little unfortunate that club mods can't go into it—at least weighted head—given that another name for a baton is a billy club (i jest, but only partially)

 

Yeah that's definitely another issue with the baton that needs to be addressed, it can't use Club or Stun Baton mods, so it's in a wonky spot. I'm pretty sure I have a weighted head mod in mine though. It can use the generic boring ones like structural brace and ergonomic grip, but yeah it is one of the most mod limited weapons in the game to the point I haven't even found enough mods to fill all my slots for it lol

[Blake_]

6 minutes ago, dcsobral said:

Screw the speed. The costs are cheaper which can make a significant different, you get XP from trap kills, you get increased XP from healing and you can craft the first bandage so you can heal every time you are even a single point down for extra XP, vehicles are WAY cheaper and you can get a motorcycle very easily in the game, you get better secret stash, you get _two_ secret stashes using the nerd goggles exploit, better prices for buying and selling, more cash from quests, more quest reward options, more flexibility using robotic sledge/turrets. What is NOT to like? Intellect is the most OP attribute tree in the game. Focus on it for the first two weeks, then switch to another attribute and you'll advance way faster than any other way.

Intellect is cool. but Khalagar is right regarding speed. I would boost the heck out of the speed. Like starting 50% all the way up to 200%. So that intellect players can really make the most out of a single forge vs the rest of the players. The cheaper cost I would maintain it as is. It's OP indeed.

[vergilsparda]

1 minute ago, Khalagar said:

 

Yeah that's definitely another issue with the baton that needs to be addressed, it can't use Club or Stun Baton mods, so it's in a wonky spot. I'm pretty sure I have a weighted head mod in mine though. It can use the generic boring ones like structural brace and ergonomic grip, but yeah it is one of the most mod limited weapons in the game to the point I haven't even found enough mods to fill all my slots for it lol

 

Yeah, I ate my shorts when I checked, I guess you can put the weighted head mod in it, which is great! But like, why none of the other club or damage mods? Burning shaft, barbed wire, chains, they'd all go great on the pipe baton since it's a long cylindrical weapon... I guess there aren't models for it, which makes sense and is totally valid, but it's still kind of dumb 😕 

 

And why can I put block damage mods in it? Who is using the pipe baton to break wood, stone, dirt, and iron lol 

[dcsobral]

5 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

Intellect is cool. but Khalagar is right regarding speed. I would boost the heck out of the speed. Like starting 50% all the way up to 200%. So that intellect players can really make the most out of a single forge vs the rest of the players. The cheaper cost I would maintain it as is. It's OP indeed.

It doesn't matter how many workbenches you have, you still get the speed bonus. Other players have two workbenches? Fine, what's preventing you from having two workbenches? And I don't know about other people, but the thing I make on the workbench that takes an annoying amount of time are mods. Multiple workbenches only go so far when all you are waiting for is for a single mod to craft.

Edited December 8, 2021 by dcsobral
Still not enough coffee (see edit history)

[JCrook1028]

On 12/7/2021 at 12:00 PM, BananaCustard said:

Did the world run out of actual toilet paper and start wiping their butts with books?

yes

[Blake_]

15 minutes ago, dcsobral said:

It doesn't matter how many workbenches you have, you still get the speed bonus. Other players have two workbenches? Fine, what's preventing you from having two workbenches? And I don't know about other people, but the thing I make on the workbench that takes an annoying amount of time are mods. Multiple workbenches only go so far when all you are waiting for is for a single mod to craft.

Mods are forever, so I don't mind waiting 15 minutes for one. I usually make 2 workbenches to make room for explosives though.

 

[Jost Amman]

1 hour ago, Khalagar said:

I actually did struggle hard to get acid last night

I was smarter than you and stored plenty away from the Steam forums during the A20 streamer weekend... 

[MechanicalLens]

1. In A19 I only used acid to A) craft wheels (which seem to be more common in A20 anyway) and B) to craft a chemistry station. I'm on my first week and I have two acid, so I'm well on my way. Recog seems to be slightly more common in A20 as well, so that's another worry off my list.

 

2. The cooking grill still seems to be quite underwhelming compared to its cousin, the cooking pot. AFAIK the grill only has two recipes attached to it: baked potatoes and grilled meat. Perhaps this could be expanded upon in the future?

 

3. The claw hammer has six quality tiers but the nail gun does not... Hmm...

 

4. In my opinion the Mo Power trucks give the player intellect-related schematics far too frequently. Perhaps this should be dialed back a bit?

Edited December 8, 2021 by MechanicalLens (see edit history)

[mstdv inc]

Hey guys!
I managed to generate a 10240x10240 map with the maximum number of cities, wildness poi and not crash the game  on my very, very, very potato PC
It took 28 minutes to generate the map, but that's ok for my PC!
So what do we need to generate such a map?
At least 40GB of swap file, I'm not kidding)
 

Spoiler

@Blake_ you have a good computer compared to mine

[Jost Amman]

1 hour ago, Roland said:

As to your point about dying to erase debuffs and regain food, water, and health.... I am with you 10000% and I've been voicing my opinion that at the least there needs to be an option to turn on persistent status after respawn for those who don't want death in a survival game to be the cure-all for everything we are trying to survive against. Does ANYONE really care about the XP delay to the next level?  I get that it can't be the default setting because new players would get into a death spiral they could not recover from. An option, though, would be nice.

I've been thinking about this, and MY own idea is that TFP should completely remove Bedroll Respawn from the game (or at least put it as an option).

This means every time you die, the biggest downside would be that you'd respawn in a random location far away from your base/bedroll anyway.

 

Most people, after dying, just run back to their backpack and recover everything very quickly.

But, what if you die and respawn far away from the place you died? That one would be a real bummer, I think it would be even worse than the current penalty!

1 hour ago, Stroichik said:

Just bring back Wellness system. It was perfect for 7d2d. 

I disagree, once you could cook some meat you'd recover wellness very quickly and dying became irrelevant.

[Roland]

6 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:

Most people, after dying, just run back to their backpack and recover everything very quickly.

But, what if you die and respawn far away from the place you died? That one would be a real bummer, I think it would be even worse than the current penalty!

 

That's easily testable simply by not putting down a bedroll.

 

I never run to get my backpack anymore because my standard setting is destroy all on death. I like it very much as a death penalty because it clears out all my best gear and forces me to downgrade to other things and make do until I can recover. I also always cancel the starter quest. Until recently it meant I could go quite awhile before finding a trader but now it seems we spawn close by quite often so it isn't much of a search. Next time I log in I'll remove my bedroll and see what I think about random spawning as a death penalty.