Alpha 20 Dev Diary

[LTKarhel]

18 hours ago, Roland said:

About the same chance as finding a purple Ak-47 in the first toilet you loot on Day 1

Ok guys .. everyone is looking for a Violette Ak-47 in the first toilet and we can then download the patch

[FreyjaPlays]

If I had paid more than $11 for this game & at alpha 19, we still have 2D foliage on top of an ever delayed expected release of Alpha 20 (not even full game yet), I'd be absolutely mad. I can't imagine what the youtubers who only play 7days or get the most views from 7 days feel. This is messing with their way to make a living. Alpha 20 hype just completely disappeared for me see it pushed back to December, or rather "first part of, December. So, another 30 days. Wtf...

[Guppycur]

...checks in, sees dumb arguments, sees roland participating in dumb arguments, remembers that historically that means RELEASE IS IMMINENT (ish).

 

 

[FreyjaPlays]

7 hours ago, wicketness said:

Yes, Sarcasm Is A Real Word. 0.O

The first release of this game was in 2013. For reference, Destiny 1 was released in 2014, and Destiny 2 was released in 2017 when development didn't start until 2015. 8 years is a very, VERY long time for a game to still be in Alpha & not fully developed yet. 

[Chris Dunaway]

Can we get some information on the modding changes for 7 Days?  One of the dev streams was supposed to cover it, but I think the dev that was going to talk about it wasn't able to make the stream.

 

Is there any detailed documentation about it?  I am familiar with modding using tools like Harmony and others and I would like to know about modding changes.

 

Thanks,

[Guppycur]

On 11/16/2021 at 10:34 AM, Chris Dunaway said:

Can we get some information on the modding changes for 7 Days?  One of the dev streams was supposed to cover it, but I think one the dev that was going to talk about it wasn't able to make the stream.

 

Is there any detailed documentation about it?  I am familiar with modding using tools like Harmony and others and I would like to know about modding changes.

 

Thanks,

So that would have been alloc, but the pimps stream at like 3am his time.

 

There was a post shortly after the stream from Chiko who summarized.  Basically:

 

We will no longer need to edit the dll in order to accept code changes via Harmony et al. 

 

So I'm not sure how MUCH you know about the tools so I'm going to treat the question as if asked by a noob, my apologies.

 

DMT is a tool developed by a Modder (Hal) that patches the game DLL in a way that allows the game to accept certain types of C# scripts.  In the past, you'd need to "compile" the mod via the DMT tool in order to patch the DLL.  In a20, 7days will natively support these types of C# scripts, allowing for a modder or user to simply include the c# in the mods folder without having to run DMT to patch the game first.  It is my understanding that Patch Scripts will still need to be applied manually.  Also, EAC will still reject code mods.

 

There are also a number of UI changes, but that's @%$#ing wizardry only like 3 people fully understand so I'll let one of the UI gods like Sirillion handle that. 😃

[dcsobral]

12 hours ago, Aldranon said:

 

I thought I heard that TFP were using more location relevant loot in A20.   Or at least somebody talked about it.   Or I had a dream... 

They said so, yeah. They went on to say, though I paraphrase, "find things where you expect to find them".

18 minutes ago, FreyjaPlays said:

The first release of this game was in 2013. For reference, Destiny 1 was released in 2014, and Destiny 2 was released in 2017 when development didn't start until 2015. 8 years is a very, VERY long time for a game to still be in Alpha & not fully developed yet. 

Well, Half Life 2 was 2004 and Half Life 3 was, uh, is not out yet. So they have about 9 years from the launch of Half Life 3 to go gold.

[Jost Amman]

23 minutes ago, FreyjaPlays said:

The first release of this game was in 2013. For reference, Destiny 1 was released in 2014, and Destiny 2 was released in 2017 when development didn't start until 2015. 8 years is a very, VERY long time for a game to still be in Alpha & not fully developed yet. 

Katikoff? Is that you? 

[dcsobral]

10 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

So that would have been alloc, but the pimps stream at like 3am his time.

 

There was a post shortly after the stream from Chiko who summarized.  Basically:

 

We will no longer need to edit the dll in order to accept code changes via Harmony et al. 

 

So I'm not sure how MUCH you know about the tools so I'm going to treat the question as if asked by a noob, my apologies.

 

DMT is a tool developed by a Modder (Hal) that patches the game DLL in a way that allows the game to accept certain types of C# scripts.  In the past, you'd need to "compile" the mod via the DMT tool in order to patch the DLL.  In a20, 7days will natively support these types of C# scripts, allowing for a modder or user to simply include the c# in the mods folder without having to run DMT to patch the game first.  It is my understanding that Patch Scripts will still need to be applied manually.  Also, EAC will still reject code mods.

 

There are also a number of UI changes, but that's f*cking wizardry only like 3 people fully understand so I'll let one of the UI gods like Sirillion handle that. 😃

Was it said that scripts will be loaded from mods automatically? Do you know what's the folder/file structure? And I'm also rather curious about UI changes. I think it was said that some stuff that was hard coded is now XML, which will make it easier to make alternate UIs.

[Jost Amman]

2 minutes ago, dcsobral said:

Was it said that scripts will be loaded from mods automatically? Do you know what's the folder/file structure? And I'm also rather curious about UI changes. I think it was said that some stuff that was hard coded is now XML, which will make it easier to make alternate UIs.

Guys, you should probably get a (modded) room... 

[Chris Dunaway]

6 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

So that would have been alloc, but the pimps stream at like 3am his time.

 

There was a post shortly after the stream from Chiko who summarized.  Basically:

 

We will no longer need to edit the dll in order to accept code changes via Harmony et al. 

 

So I'm not sure how MUCH you know about the tools so I'm going to treat the question as if asked by a noob, my apologies.

 

DMT is a tool developed by a Modder (Hal) that patches the game DLL in a way that allows the game to accept certain types of C# scripts.  In the past, you'd need to "compile" the mod via the DMT tool in order to patch the DLL.  In a20, 7days will natively support these types of C# scripts, allowing for a modder or user to simply include the c# in the mods folder without having to run DMT to patch the game first.  It is my understanding that Patch Scripts will still need to be applied manually.  Also, EAC will still reject code mods.

 

There are also a number of UI changes, but that's f*cking wizardry only like 3 people fully understand so I'll let one of the UI gods like Sirillion handle that. 😃

Thanks for the response.  I am still new to modding.  I am not that familiar with DMT, but I understood that it used a modified game file.  I had used other boot strappers like BepInEx which creates a modified version of winhttp.dll which then loads the Harmony code.

 

Are you saying that 7D2D now loads Harmony directly without the need of the modified file?

 

Thanks again.

[Lord Morphleyes]

Hi all,

Long time listener, first time caller.  Just wanted to say thank you to TFP for taking your time and not pushing out a product that is not ready.  The frustration of waiting is nothing compared to playing a bug filled game that crashes often.   Thank you also to all of you for keeping me entertained as I visit this forum daily looking for the sweet release of my anticipation in the form of a release date. 

 

Question about stable release:

When A20 first hits it will be in experimental(?) or whatever the pre-stable form is, is that correct?  When A20 goes to stable, will I need to start over again or will my saves from A20 pre-stable transfer to A20 stable?   

 

Other random thoughts

I love that guys ideas for the revised Feral Wight and Screamer.

The steel Axe is Bada$$ and I don't care how much damage it doesn't do  

 

[dcsobral]

10 minutes ago, Lord Morphleyes said:

Hi all,

Long time listener, first time caller.  Just wanted to say thank you to TFP for taking your time and not pushing out a product that is not ready.  The frustration of waiting is nothing compared to playing a bug filled game that crashes often.   Thank you also to all of you for keeping me entertained as I visit this forum daily looking for the sweet release of my anticipation in the form of a release date. 

 

Question about stable release:

When A20 first hits it will be in experimental(?) or whatever the pre-stable form is, is that correct?  When A20 goes to stable, will I need to start over again or will my saves from A20 pre-stable transfer to A20 stable?   

 

Other random thoughts

I love that guys ideas for the revised Feral Wight and Screamer.

The steel Axe is Bada$$ and I don't care how much damage it doesn't do  

 

Well said. To anyone bemoaning the delay, consider this: would you be upset if you had to restart the game after every update on experimental? How about if there was one update every day? 

[Astronomical]

18 hours ago, wicketness said:

Now i am gonna go buy beer get drunk and get banned.

 

You weren't already drunk when you wrote this!? 🤔

[Guppycur]

27 minutes ago, Chris Dunaway said:

Are you saying that 7D2D now loads Harmony directly without the need of the modified file?

That's the word on the street, yes.  Sesame street.

23 minutes ago, Lord Morphleyes said:

Question about stable release:

When A20 first hits it will be in experimental(?) or whatever the pre-stable form is, is that correct?  When A20 goes to stable, will I need to start over again or will my saves from A20 pre-stable transfer to A20 stable?  

 

Typically it comes out as an "opt-in" method on Monday following streamer weekend.  There will be instructions posted when that happens.  Basically go to steam, game properties, and opt-in to experimental release (which won't be visible until they open it up).

 

Game re-starts largely depend on WHAT is updated.  If they fix a POI then no, you won't need to start a game.  If they change a quest, skill or perk then yes, that usually requires a game restart if it *changes* the names or cvar names and probably a few other cases.  This is not typical for an experimental to release, so I wouldn't sweat it.

[meilodasreh]

36 minutes ago, Guppycur said:

...checks in, sees dumb arguments, sees roland participating in dumb arguments, remembers that historically that means RELEASE IS IMMINENT (ish).

 

 

 

omg you're right. I can see it now, too.

We're actively being distressed by every staff guy (devs, forum mods, QA,...).

They even push further any whatsoever ridiculous argument about preferably most off-topic subjects, just to keep us from whining about the feeling-greatly-delayed public release of an even "pre-ante-experimental-alpha" (yes, that's six layers of "not final").

 

And me idiot totally fell for it!

 

I even mentioned it several times, that this thread is completely away from its original intention, without seeing the great evil plan behind it.

 

 

...no more!

 

 

ARE WE THERE YET???

[Khalagar]

1 hour ago, FreyjaPlays said:

The first release of this game was in 2013. For reference, Destiny 1 was released in 2014, and Destiny 2 was released in 2017 when development didn't start until 2015. 8 years is a very, VERY long time for a game to still be in Alpha & not fully developed yet. 

 

Development on this game was stalled out because of Telltale going out of business and taking the console version of 7 Days to Die with it, and starting a gigantic legal battle etc.

 

The current version of this game is also *VERY* different from the 2013 version, to the point there's probably less in common with A20 and A1 than there is with Destiny 2 and Destiny 1

[JamesKirk]

18 hours ago, FreyjaPlays said:

The first release of this game was in 2013.

I checked my bills and found I bought this game back on Sept. 5th 2014 for 23€. Seven years ago.

This was the best investment in my life given the amount of gameplay hours and fun I regained from it.

By now I've accumulated around 2000 hours of gameplay, the last 700 or even more with a band of buddies

I convinced of playing this game with me. Together we've had some epic moments (haha that stupid zombies just fell down the elevator shaft....Aaaargh *censored*.... me too🤣) we'll never forget. Fun, creativity and teamplay are the lessons tought by this game.

 

I just wanted to say to the Devs: Thx Pimps !!! You gave me endless hours of pure fun and horror, heartattacks included. Cheers for the next 7 years🍻

Although I doubt they will finish their next game before retiring😜 I think I will buy it as soon as it is announced.

 

Btw. is there any timeline around when which Alpha was released?

Ok, everything is said, now drop A20 !

[bachgaman]

5 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

No and I really don't care about all of your posts.  I just noted that the thumbs down from them was for posts that I made that were toxic and I shouldn't have done that.

 

I have seen you been toxic against streamers, against developers, and against others in this forum.  But don't believe me, take a look at your own words just in the streamer thread alone in General discussion.  Pointing out what you have said in the past against others is not persecution or toxic, it's trying to get you to step back and understand that what you are typing is not very helpful or even nice to others.

 

 

If I allowed myself to be harsh a few times is this an excuse to harass me for a months and spam negative reactions to all my posts?

Plus, he did it even before I first showed toxicity, so your theory of the toxicity fighter is invalid.

 

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, FreyjaPlays said:

The first release of this game was in 2013. For reference, Destiny 1 was released in 2014, and Destiny 2 was released in 2017 when development didn't start until 2015. 8 years is a very, VERY long time for a game to still be in Alpha & not fully developed yet. 

 

For reference, Fifa 23 surely could have been released 2 days after Fifa 22, if EA had wanted to. 😁

 

A bit more serious, I see an AAA company and a second version, where the standard is to provide just a handful of new features and a graphics update. Hoping for a better example.

 

How about we make 7D2D the reference, then 7D2D is right on track 😉

 

[Syphon583]

1 hour ago, FreyjaPlays said:

If I had paid more than $11 for this game & at alpha 19, we still have 2D foliage on top of an ever delayed expected release of Alpha 20 (not even full game yet), I'd be absolutely mad. I can't imagine what the youtubers who only play 7days or get the most views from 7 days feel. This is messing with their way to make a living. Alpha 20 hype just completely disappeared for me see it pushed back to December, or rather "first part of, December. So, another 30 days. Wtf...

I also purchased this game at A19. I can't really recall a recent game that I have enjoyed more or put more hours into than 7DTD. To complain about spending $11 for an EA game is astounding to me. You knew what you were getting when you clicked that BUY button. They could have the best looking foliage of any game out right now, and it still wouldn't change the gameplay and how much enjoyment you can get from it. It sounds like maybe this game just isn't for you. That's fair. But don't jump into this forum complaining about the graphics or the soft target window for the release of an alpha for an early access game. If it means that much to you, stop playing and wait for gold.

 

1 hour ago, FreyjaPlays said:

The first release of this game was in 2013. For reference, Destiny 1 was released in 2014, and Destiny 2 was released in 2017 when development didn't start until 2015. 8 years is a very, VERY long time for a game to still be in Alpha & not fully developed yet. 

You know you're comparing apples to oranges, right? The Destiny games were developed by large teams of devs who were backed back an enormously large publishing company which reportedly spent something in the neighborhood of $500 million for the first game alone. (and as meganoth mentioned above, Destiny 1 and 2 aren't all that different. Not really hard to do within a couple years) 7DTD, which is a LONG WAY from where it started, is being made by a comparatively smaller team with limited resources. What they've accomplished, not withstanding the other issues they've had to deal with that Khalagar mentioned above, is pretty impressive.

[Roland]

53 minutes ago, Khalagar said:

Development on this game was stalled out because of Telltale going out of business and taking the console version of 7 Days to Die with it, and starting a gigantic legal battle etc.

 

This is not really true. I usually have to remind console players that TFP is a PC developer and had little to do with the console port other than providing source code and having some of the programmers work with Iron Galaxy. By the same token, the end of Telltale and the console version did not really affect TFP work. It was lawyers hired by TFP that handled the legalities while the programmers and testers just kept on keeping on.

[crazywildfire]

4 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

This is not really true. I usually have to remind console players that TFP is a PC developer and had little to do with the console port other than providing source code and having some of the programmers work with Iron Galaxy. By the same token, the end of Telltale and the console version did not really affect TFP work. It was lawyers hired by TFP that handled the legalities while the programmers and testers just kept on keeping on.

 

 

Was getting ready to say something similar to this but you beat me to it lol.

 

........

 

Like others have said comparing apple and oranges here. Destiny has was more resources and people working on it. So I would hope they can push out a game faster. Then add part 2 and it was basically a DLC to the first game. They basically copied and pasted a bunch of stuff and made a few changes. Besides are you 100% sure when they started working on part 2 or just going by some date that was for an announcement. Either way doesn't change anything so doesn't really matter.

 

Look ar elder scrolls 6. It was announced in 2018. Not sure when development started. Maybe 2016 or 2017. But lets just say 2018. We know it isn't coming until starfield and that isn't until nov 2022. That is 4 years, plus at least another year or 2 after starfield. So 6ish years and look how big of a company they are.

 

So it isn't that far fetched for a game to be in development for so long. Especially when it is by a small team with limited resources. Be grateful they still working on it and you getting beyond the money's worth compared to the $60 to $100 games that come out today. 

[Blake_]

2 hours ago, FreyjaPlays said:

The first release of this game was in 2013. For reference, Destiny 1 was released in 2014, and Destiny 2 was released in 2017 when development didn't start until 2015. 8 years is a very, VERY long time for a game to still be in Alpha & not fully developed yet. 

Lol you are cute. Destiny had 500+ of veteran devs and around 140 million US  dollars at the very start (starting with that much people is very important for the programming department specifically). And they took around 4 years since 2010 to release the first one. The Fun Pimps had 3 guys (Madmole, Rick, Robert and the pet give it or take)  and less than 200.000 dollars when they  started developing (kickstarter), with 6-15 people most of the time since. They achieved 45 guys just a year ago and training takes months . Stop comparing Bill Gates with my cat plz. An indie game is not a AAA one. The difference is budget. Yes, after all the success it is still a cheap videogame, so they don't gain that much from it. The weird thing is that they are already quite close to that crazy ambitious kickstarter. And we wouldn't mind even more content.

 

Don't be deceived by marketing, Skyrim took 6  years to make (yes, desing began at the end of Oblivion, during the Fallout 3 dev cycle)  with ~100 people with all the engine and systems already 80% done (Oblivion through Fallout 3 stuff, like AI, rendering, crappy physics...etc).

 

A good videogame takes ages to make . That's why with pure resource and money brute force you can only do tons of cool models and animations, but programming is a bottleneck that goes forward little by little (see the Call of Duty franchise for example).

 

I know you are new to the forums, so welcome, and nevermind your rant, is a valid one, but I hope I helped you see inside the process a bit so you can value the effort of this tiny team. 

[Laz Man]

1 hour ago, JamesKirk said:

I checked my bills and found I bought this game back on Sept. 5th 2014 for 23€. Seven years ago.

This was the best investment in my life given the amount of gameplay hours and fun I regained from it.

By now I've acculumated around 2000 hours of gameplay, the last 700 or even more with a band of buddies

I convinced of playing this game with me. Together we've had some epic moments (haha that stupid zombies just fell down the elevator shaft....Aaaargh *censored*.... me too🤣) we'll never forget. Fun, creativity and teamplay are the lessons tought by this game.

 

I just wanted to say to the Devs: Thx Pimps !!! You gave me endless hours of pure fun and horror, heartattacks included. Cheers for the next 7 years🍻

Although I doubt they will finish their next game before retiring😜 I think I will buy it as soon as it is announced.

 

Btw. is there any timeline around when which Alpha was released?

Ok, everything is said, now drop A20 !

 

You bring up an excellent point.  Now if 7d2d was a subscription MMO or if they were charging for updates, I can understand some of the angst.

 

There are also some folks who want it finished so they don't have to keep starting over and over again.  Although I can empathize, 7d2d is a game that restarting new games is part of the fun so that is not really an issue for myself as a player.