Alpha 18 Dev Diary!!

[madmole]

@madmole

 

Seeing how this deathpenalty discussion continues, even though I am satisfied... I have a question:

I gave that opinion back in A17 experimental, and a few times since then:

 

(no attack, honest question) Why do you guys want to punish the player?

Instead of rewarding survival and taking that reward away

(so lower base xp gain to 50% and give *1.5 after one day; *2 after 3 days (so "normal") and *2.5-3 after 7 days survived)

meaning you aren't punished but rewarded for staying alive.

It wouldn't cut out all the commentors saying that on multiplayer ppl fall behind, but you can not fall in a "death loop" and be stuck at that level.

 

Also it feels just so much better beeing rewarded for staying alive this long.

Also you can tweek the numbers... make base leveling give 10% of what it is now but go in x5 day 1 x10 day 3 and x20 day 7 or something.

 

I feel like this way you do not punish the player who already had problems surviving.

 

Factually it is the same... (more or less) but it FEELS different. It doesnt feel like someone clubbing me with a hammer for dying, but someone just took away my bone and I can earn it back if I survive long enough.

It should be obvious, we don't want players eating glass to get out of infection, dysentery, broken legs, etc. You are getting rewarded now by staying alive, you aren't losing XP. Feels great already. Your method is just reward and more reward. People would have their glass and eat it too with that design.

 

Our system takes away nothing. You die at level 42 you are always going to be level 42. It ensures people will avoid death no matter what, which they should, unless they think its a fair trade to get rid of infection to lose some XP. SOme will still eat glass, and we're fine with that now. Before no matter how you sliced it, people would suicide to get out of things because it was safe and convenient and had not much drawback. Now I think people will think twice and thank us for the game play it took to heal their leg or get rid of infection. Those "needs" produce great stories. Being stuck at a certain level might feel good to overcome.

 

If I had it my way I'd take away a full level, -5 to all attributes, gaining back 1 per day, respawn starving with 1 health and food and water how they were when you died. But thats my own hardcore version I'd like and realize that would be a nice mod and horrible for a retail release.

[faatal]

don't know if this every got answered but is the bug with the vehicles being silent at top speed fixed?

 

They also dont rotate the wheels either.

 

This is all from a perspective of the passenger or a civ walking by/someone driving by.

 

Don't think a 4x4 should be quieter than sledge hammer hitting dirt

 

Not fixed yet. Low priority.

[madmole]

If I remember correctly they introduce death penalty to stop players from suicide to heal their broken legs and stuff like that. And Yes, it seems negative, but I really like it. It make us more cautious. Though I hate the part where I have to pick my bag pack, from where I die which is still overloaded with same zombie that kill me.. maybe a bear or radiated and now I am weaker and have no defence to take it back.

 

You could drop nothing on death. Its easy enough to throw a rock and distract zeds away from your gear with some stealth. Take some spikes if you must. Usually you can easily kite them away, sprint over there, grab gear and go.

[madmole]

I am going to try lots of different things. But not having the ammo isent the issue.

 

If I have 10k ammo and i do a t5 tower and end it with -500 ammo why am I doing the tower? Ammo is my main need in game. If a poi nets me a loss of ammo I'm gonna skip it.

 

Its going to cost you ammo. Your reward is XP, possible better armor, guns, tools and gear you might find. Supplies, trader rewards, dukes... its all worth it. If you go in and expect to make gains on ammo then you need your head examined. The idea is the loot is worth it. That remains to be seen and is up to the RNG.

[Guppycur]

Its going to cost you ammo. Your reward is XP, possible better armor, guns, tools and gear you might find. Supplies, trader rewards, dukes... its all worth it. If you go in and expect to make gains on ammo then you need your head examined. The idea is the loot is worth it. That remains to be seen and is up to the RNG.

 

Right now there is a hard loot list limit, which y'all are pretty close to maxing out (255 I think), so adding in special custom loot would get you even closer to that hard cap, so:

 

1) Do y'all have any plans to increase the hard cap like you did for blocks and items

2) Do y'all have plans to have specialty items inside of specific poi's or are you strictly handling those through trader quest rewards?

 

I can tell you that as a modder, PLEASE raise the cap. As a player, PLEASE include more poi-specific loot.

 

Thanks!

[MajorMunchy]

Not fixed yet. Low priority.

 

nooooooooooooo. but if it doesn't get fixed i still laugh every time i drive by smashing my horn on the 4x4 and that's literally all my friends hear LOL

[madmole]

If TFP don't give us a reward that is the equivalent/greater amount of ammo per POI, then they would have to compensate with an even greater reward... (Legendary weapons having a higher chance to drop in them, due to special crates, in A19, perhaps.)

 

I've run some tests and, on average, clearing out tier 2/3 quests will give you more ammo, loot, XP, and if they're quests, dukes per hour than doing one tier 5 dungeon. Even if TFP allowed us to acquire a similar amount of ammo at the end to what we put in, or even an increased percentage, it would still be inefficient. Doable, but inefficient. Just my opinion, but we need a more enticing, maybe even an exclusive reason to raid tier 5 dungeons.

 

I haven't done enough T5's yet to say for sure, but the trader rewards are pretty amazing most of the time. The loot at the POI is more than I can carry out in one trip. I don't know what is enough, but it seems good to me. I'm playing A18 though. I don't recall how bad 17 was I never got past tier 3's before I quit playing.

 

I don't think you need to have a net profit in ammo though, that is just stupid. You roll the dice and use your ammo and hope. That is the game. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. You always gain XP though and get the trader reward so I don't view it as all that bad no matter what.

[madmole]

If i use 700 rounds and come out with 200 that's negative rounds. Main thing I need over all else is ammo. So doing a t5 tower is a 100% waste of time for me

 

Except for the fun factor. And they are fun.

 

You might as well sit in your mine all day then if stockpiling ammo is your goal. I want better gear (weapons, books, armor, mods, tools, more medicine) so I do the T5's.

[MechanicalLens]

I completely agree with you. In fact, this is what I have been saying for the most part.

 

But I just want to make this clear, I would not want end-game loot (such as Legendary Weapons) that is exclusive within these t5 dungeons, otherwise at some point in the game, these POI's are all that players would be clearing. It should just be a much higher percentage change that, on average, you'd walk out with a Legendary Weapon, or even two.

[madmole]

When you guys fix all those bugs what happens?

 

Kraken.

[madmole]

TFP: would it ever be possible to have multiple interiors for one POI that the game can roll for when you initiate a quest there?

 

Its already random. All loot boxes are randomly open or closed versions.

[madmole]

Hey MM, with Dukes Casino tokens being the in game currency, has there been any thought to making a Dukes Casino POI?

 

Uh yeah, that is the dukes base.

[Phoenixshade35]

I have something i wouldn't mind being put back into the game, getting glass from breaking the paintings in homes, seems weird to break them and not even get 1 broken glass lol

[MechanicalLens]

No (in fact, I just logged off of playing A17 twenty minutes ago), I was just making a general response that I prefer singleplayer over multiplayer. Yes, days don't matter anymore, I just enjoy a natural sense of progression instead of staying off for a few days and then being handed better gear (steel tools, etc.) since I would still be on iron. No, I don't have to accept such requests, I just like having a little bit of control on my worlds. But maybe I'll try multiplayer again sometime, who knows?

[MechanicalLens]

The loot was pretty good for t5 POI's (most of the time; sometimes I just walked out with brown or orange quality gear, even with a high gamestage and 5/5 Lucky Looter; you win some, you lose some), and the trader rewards were generally worth it, on most occasions. Just my opinion, but there should be an extra incentive for players to scale up the t5 dungeons, something even greater than the possible guaranteed 2000+ dukes at the trader, possibly a great/good//alright item at the trader. A higher chance of getting Legendary weapons (**in A19) or other rare/unique loot (100+ forged steel, a solar cell/solar bank, etc.) at these "ultimate dungeons" would certainly encourage players to loot them other than for the "fun factor". While I can agree - and I'm very confident everyone can - that the T5 dungeons are designed fantastically, I just feel that as well as being foreboding, they should be tempting as well, and the latter is lacking just a little. But hey, I'm not a developer, what do I know?

 

I've done multiple runs and I've determined that, on average, clearing a few POI's in the same time it would take to clear one t5 dungeon does net you a bit more loot, more dukes at the trader (if they're quests), and with a lesser chance of dying while using less ammo. Basically, efficiency wise, going for the lower tier POI's can be faster and even a little more rewarding than the t5 dungeons, and I personally believe that should be put into consideration for future tweaking. (: Again, this is just my opinion, and I don't consider any opinion to be factually correct. Take from this whatever you please.

 

While you shouldn't always get a massive win, or close to, from looting, just to repeat what I've said before, the incentive, loot wise, is a little lacking for players to scale these largest dungeons, compared to what they could be, in my opinion.

 

EDIT: Just one other, small point I wanted to add to this already lengthy post... If Legendary Weapons are added in A19, I just personally think it would be logical that, since these t5 dungeons are the greatest challenge (to loot) in 7d2D, they should have a higher chance of dropping Legendary Weapons. (Again, those suggested specialized loot chests I mentioned. ^^) You know, with great risk comes the [increased] chance of great reward? (Even by a few %) At least, that's just my take on it.

[Trankitas]

Kraken.

 

Best response you ever gave me. 10/10 I can't wait to try the mythological water monster.

[Zaroff]

If you are dying that much you need to turn down the difficulty. Its not hard to stay alive, 95% of deaths only occurs when you don't properly prepare.

 

+1

 

so sick of hearing people say "death penalty is stupid and ruins the game" its survival not; who can die the most on the server. Jesus!

[Slingblade2040]

so do people not use Melle weapons when doing T5 quests? I don't understand how folks come out with so much negative ammo. I went Melle heavy and go in like a freaken tank with pain tolerance and healing factor and heavy armor. maybe using different gun mods and different weapons will make it easier and save on ammo when doing these quests if some folks insist on the Rambo approach.

[sillls]

Uh yeah, that is the dukes base.

 

So is the Dukes base in Alpha-18?

[Viktoriusiii]

It should be obvious, we don't want players eating glass to get out of infection, dysentery, broken legs, etc. You are getting rewarded now by staying alive, you aren't losing XP. Feels great already. Your method is just reward and more reward. People would have their glass and eat it too with that design.

 

Our system takes away nothing. You die at level 42 you are always going to be level 42. It ensures people will avoid death no matter what, which they should, unless they think its a fair trade to get rid of infection to lose some XP. SOme will still eat glass, and we're fine with that now. Before no matter how you sliced it, people would suicide to get out of things because it was safe and convenient and had not much drawback. Now I think people will think twice and thank us for the game play it took to heal their leg or get rid of infection. Those "needs" produce great stories. Being stuck at a certain level might feel good to overcome.

 

If I had it my way I'd take away a full level, -5 to all attributes, gaining back 1 per day, respawn starving with 1 health and food and water how they were when you died. But thats my own hardcore version I'd like and realize that would be a nice mod and horrible for a retail release.

 

I know its a lot to ask... but you seem to misunderstand what I mean... so could you watch those 12 minutes? Or at least parts of it? Because this is something I often find lacking in 7d2d.

Reward vs punishment.

 

In short:

now:

100% xp -25% xp on death

my method:

75% +25% after not dying for a certain amount of time

 

in the end it is the same number, but it FEELS different. Because instead of beeing punished for dying, you are rewarded for NOT dying.

 

I would love if you watch that vid... but if not I hope you still got what I meant.

(if you are really short on time start here

but I would encourage you to watch the whole thing)

[SnowDog1942]

I know its a lot to ask... but you seem to misunderstand what I mean... so could you watch those 12 minutes? Or at least parts of it? Because this is something I often find lacking in 7d2d.

Reward vs punishment.

 

In short:

now:

100% xp -25% xp on death

my method:

75% +25% after not dying for a certain amount of time

 

in the end it is the same number, but it FEELS different. Because instead of beeing punished for dying, you are rewarded for NOT dying.

 

I would love if you watch that vid... but if not I hope you still got what I meant.

(if you are really short on time start here

but I would encourage you to watch the whole thing)

 

Punishment is better, it will put hair on ypur chest.

[MechanicalLens]

At the end of the day, people have different playstyles, be them natural or by choice. There's not much to add here.

[Trankitas]

New death penalty: When you die in game it uninstalls the game from your PC, and you die IRL. Confirmed

[Roland]

I believe so.

 

Would you consider bringing back the 50% health and stamina penalty as well? For health it could just be the temporary damage so that all you need to do is spend food to get both stamina and health back to full.

 

With no spoilage we need food sinks such as this. Plus Vik would be happy because full health and stamina (even up to approx 150%) by surviving well is a reward and then that would be taken away down to 50%.

 

We had this in the game for years and it’s been gone the last couple alphas but I feel it was also a good part of being “anti-rewarded” upon death. Bring it back and you’ll cover the nostalgics and the participation trophy folks at the same time.

[madmole]

My turn at an attempt for a Hitler Video:

 

https://www.captiongenerator.com/1478942/A18-Hitler-Video

 

LOL, the hellcat part was glorious. I never dreamed of two hitler videos in one day lol, nice work guys.